I work for a fortune 500 company who is looking at developing a client server software package. It is of course geared to be web enabled as well as normal client server. As a Powerbuilder and Visual Basic programmer for more than 8 years I believe that going with Powerbuilder on this project is a good decision, my colleagues and managers does not. It has been rumored for some time now that Powerbuilder is dying a slow but eminent death and I'm rather saddened by this since I personally feel Powerbuilder is a great tool to work with. I couldn't find any substantial information on your web page to help me convince people other wise and would greatly appreciate it if you can supply me with some specifications and information on where Sybase sees Powerbuilder in the future. Thank you in advance for your help.
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In article <40F0AB86974B436B0057B7DA852569A2.0057B7ED852569A2@webforums>, contact_tentacle@hotmail.com says... > I work for a fortune 500 company who is looking at developing a client > server software package. It is of course geared to be web enabled as well > as normal client server. As a Powerbuilder and Visual Basic programmer for > more than 8 years I believe that going with Powerbuilder on this project is > a good decision, my colleagues and managers does not. It has been rumored > for some time now that Powerbuilder is dying a slow but eminent death and > I'm rather saddened by this since I personally feel Powerbuilder is a great > tool to work with. I couldn't find any substantial information on your web > page to help me convince people other wise and would greatly appreciate it > if you can supply me with some specifications and information on where > Sybase sees Powerbuilder in the future. Thank you in advance for your help. > > PB is not going away anytime soon. PB 8 is in beta and at thisyear's conference, it was stated that there is a PB 9 and 10 inthe works. -- Andy Turiansky [TeamSybase] Check out SDN @ http://sdn.sybase.com
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I dont agree that PB is gonna go away too soon. I work in Sydney Australia and I receive daily job updates and i receive around 20 a day. Given that the US has a heap more development in PB I would assume it is in the same boat. Having said that, I have been working with PB/EAS to develop web applications over the last twelve months and it has been excellent. Throwing PB components into jaguar is seemless and they work fine. If you have many years of experience in PB in a company, why would you throw that all away overnight??? I would take the tact of purchasing a great product like EAS, converting to n-tier and then plan on how you will tackle a move to Java ( if its needed at all ). Java is now more than a buzz word, but there still has to be benefits in coverting to Java or even writing new applications in java. We may get great paying jobs in 2049 when we have to fix all the applications for date problems <g> My $0.02 worth Adam contact_tentacle@hotmail.com wrote: > I work for a fortune 500 company who is looking at developing a client > server software package. It is of course geared to be web enabled as well > as normal client server. As a Powerbuilder and Visual Basic programmer for > more than 8 years I believe that going with Powerbuilder on this project is > a good decision, my colleagues and managers does not. It has been rumored > for some time now that Powerbuilder is dying a slow but eminent death and > I'm rather saddened by this since I personally feel Powerbuilder is a great > tool to work with. I couldn't find any substantial information on your web > page to help me convince people other wise and would greatly appreciate it > if you can supply me with some specifications and information on where > Sybase sees Powerbuilder in the future. Thank you in advance for your help. -- Adam Simmonds Senior Developer FlexSIS Project Maze Crescent, Building G05 University of Sydney NSW 2006 Email: asimmond@mail.usyd.edu.au Phone: +61 2 9351 5174 Mb: 0403 341 474 Fax: +61 2 9351 7711
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Take a look at http://my.sybase.com/detail/1,3693,1009639,00.html regards, Bill contact_tentacle@hotmail.com wrote: > I work for a fortune 500 company who is looking at developing a client > server software package. It is of course geared to be web enabled as well > as normal client server. As a Powerbuilder and Visual Basic programmer for > more than 8 years I believe that going with Powerbuilder on this project is > a good decision, my colleagues and managers does not. It has been rumored > for some time now that Powerbuilder is dying a slow but eminent death and > I'm rather saddened by this since I personally feel Powerbuilder is a great > tool to work with. I couldn't find any substantial information on your web > page to help me convince people other wise and would greatly appreciate it > if you can supply me with some specifications and information on where > Sybase sees Powerbuilder in the future. Thank you in advance for your help. -- Bill Green[TeamSybase] ----------------------------------------------------------- Good Links to know, good places to go: News: Sybase Portal is live - Go http://my.sybase.com Developer stuff on my.sybase.com Find things like: -- EAServer 3.6 maintenance release is available -- PowerBuilder C3 maintenance release available (build 8046) -- Components, White papers, articles and more -- Web DataWindow Article Series (Author: Larry Cermak) -- Jaguar Agent for Web Servers (HTTP access to PB components) PFC Guide - http://www.pfcguide.com Power3 - Custom Training - http://www.power3.com Bill Green @ Power3 - wgreen@power3.com -----------------------------------------------------------
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I also have concerns about PB's future! We have a large customer that is buying into web technology for the future. Today this customer has apps built using Pb and progress etc.. that are deployed virtually worldwide. They want to go to thin clients and decentralize the db. I will be on a team involved in the technology decisions from the beginning. I am looking at various technologies including but not limited to the following: BEA weblogic websphere visual studio + the new ".NET" archictecture. PB eas server + whatever else is needed to make this work. MS IIS etc...... I would like to use the Sybase solution because that way I can leverage the PB experience that we have in our office. The problem is that if EAS doesn't take off will we end up in the same scenario we got with (install builder + object cycle etc...). Products dropped with no migration strategy because SYBASE did not want to spend the money to support them anymore (shifting focus). I know that Microsoft supports products that don't make money because they can afford to! Sybase can't! My boss is real gung ho on Microsoft and I love PB but the future is uncertain and I know a company like Microsoft will be here in the future. I am still confused to as to what products I need from SYBASE in order to build the future. Jaguar? EAS PB Dynamo We are starting from scratch and it doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy when I go to the sybase website and can't make heads or tales of what I need and what does what????? It also may be that I am not the brightest bulb in the bunch :*) Does anybody have any pointers to white papers etc... that I can research to help me and my colleagues on all this? "Bill Green[TeamSybase]" <bill.green@teamsybase.com> wrote in message news:3A226F88.426C0BEF@teamsybase.com... > Take a look at > > http://my.sybase.com/detail/1,3693,1009639,00.html > > regards, > Bill > > contact_tentacle@hotmail.com wrote: > > > I work for a fortune 500 company who is looking at developing a client > > server software package. It is of course geared to be web enabled as well > > as normal client server. As a Powerbuilder and Visual Basic programmer for > > more than 8 years I believe that going with Powerbuilder on this project is > > a good decision, my colleagues and managers does not. It has been rumored > > for some time now that Powerbuilder is dying a slow but eminent death and > > I'm rather saddened by this since I personally feel Powerbuilder is a great > > tool to work with. I couldn't find any substantial information on your web > > page to help me convince people other wise and would greatly appreciate it > > if you can supply me with some specifications and information on where > > Sybase sees Powerbuilder in the future. Thank you in advance for your help. > > -- > Bill Green[TeamSybase] > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Good Links to know, good places to go: > > News: Sybase Portal is live - Go http://my.sybase.com > > Developer stuff on my.sybase.com > Find things like: > -- EAServer 3.6 maintenance release is available > -- PowerBuilder C3 maintenance release available (build 8046) > -- Components, White papers, articles and more > -- Web DataWindow Article Series (Author: Larry Cermak) > -- Jaguar Agent for Web Servers (HTTP access to PB components) > > PFC Guide - http://www.pfcguide.com > > Power3 - Custom Training - http://www.power3.com > Bill Green @ Power3 - wgreen@power3.com > ----------------------------------------------------------- > >
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Roy, See below... "Roy C Wood" <woodrc@battelle.org> wrote in message news:M2PJdhwWAHA.67@forums.sybase.com... <snip> > I am looking at various technologies including but not limited to the > following: > BEA weblogic Do you have sufficient Java experience in your team? If not, factor learning curve and training into your cost. > websphere Same as above. > visual studio + the new ".NET" archictecture. What is your projected start date? Are you willing to risk beginning development on a beta-1 product? What .NET language(s) are you considering? Factor learning curve and training into your cost (even more so than Java, simply because your selection of training courses and/or reference books is almost non-existant, and is unlikely to grow before MS reaches the RC stage. > PB eas server + whatever else is needed to make this work. > MS IIS etc...... IIS is a good web server. You can use it regardless of what application server you select. It should not be a deciding factor IMHO. > I would like to use the Sybase solution because that way I can leverage the PB experience > that we have in our office. The problem is that if EAS doesn't take off will we end up in the > same scenario we got with (install builder + object cycle etc...). Products dropped with no > migration strategy because SYBASE did not want to spend the > money to support them anymore (shifting focus). EAServer will not be dropped (in the forseeable future) -- it is Sybase's flagship product. InstallBuilder and ObjectCycle were complimentory products, not revenue generators. > My boss is real gung ho on Microsoft and I love PB but the future is > uncertain and I know a company like Microsoft will be here in the future. That's a classic mistake of non-thinking managers. Enlighten them! > I am still confused to as to what products I need from SYBASE in order to > build the future. > EAS > Jaguar? > Dynamo Jaguar and Dynamo are a part of EAServer. > PB Definitely, to write Jaguar components and datawindows to be used as HTML front-end. > We are starting from scratch and it doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy when > I go to the sybase website and can't make heads or tales of what I need and what does > what????? Contact Sybase professional services or one of Sybase's consulting partners (e.g., Cynergy Systems, Corporate Technology Partners, PowerTeam, to name a few). Look into the e-Map program. -- <hopethishelps /> Roy Kiesler [TeamSybase] mySybase - http://my.sybase.com
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Yes I know that one of the major reasons software projects fail is becasue of lack of training!!!!! Yes, we will have to ramp up in JAVA and in web technology in general. Our project is slated to begin in January 2001 and last 2 years. We don't have a plan yet! We are just kind of looking at everything right now. We already have the funding in the bank! Are you available Roy? We are right next door in Cambridge :*) "Roy Kiesler [TeamSybase]" <SPAM_FREE_roy.kiesler@teamsybase.com> wrote in message news:zBFZgBxWAHA.67@forums.sybase.com... > Roy, > > See below... > > "Roy C Wood" <woodrc@battelle.org> wrote in message > news:M2PJdhwWAHA.67@forums.sybase.com... > <snip> > > I am looking at various technologies including but not limited to the > > following: > > BEA weblogic > > Do you have sufficient Java experience in your team? If not, factor learning > curve and training into your cost. > > > websphere > > Same as above. > > > visual studio + the new ".NET" archictecture. > > What is your projected start date? > Are you willing to risk beginning development on a beta-1 product? > What .NET language(s) are you considering? Factor learning curve and > training into your cost (even more so than Java, simply because your > selection of training courses and/or reference books is almost non-existant, > and is unlikely to grow before MS reaches the RC stage. > > > PB eas server + whatever else is needed to make this work. > > MS IIS etc...... > > IIS is a good web server. You can use it regardless of what application > server you select. It should not be a deciding factor IMHO. > > > I would like to use the Sybase solution because that way I can leverage > the PB experience > > that we have in our office. The problem is that if EAS doesn't take off > will we end up in the > > same scenario we got with (install builder + object cycle etc...). > Products dropped with no > > migration strategy because SYBASE did not want to spend the > > money to support them anymore (shifting focus). > > EAServer will not be dropped (in the forseeable future) -- it is Sybase's > flagship product. InstallBuilder and ObjectCycle were complimentory > products, not revenue generators. > > > My boss is real gung ho on Microsoft and I love PB but the future is > > uncertain and I know a company like Microsoft will be here in the future. > > That's a classic mistake of non-thinking managers. Enlighten them! > > > I am still confused to as to what products I need from SYBASE in order to > > build the future. > > EAS > > Jaguar? > > Dynamo > > Jaguar and Dynamo are a part of EAServer. > > > PB > > Definitely, to write Jaguar components and datawindows to be used as HTML > front-end. > > > We are starting from scratch and it doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy > when > > I go to the sybase website and can't make heads or tales of what I need > and what does > > what????? > > Contact Sybase professional services or one of Sybase's consulting partners > (e.g., Cynergy Systems, Corporate Technology Partners, PowerTeam, to name a > few). Look into the e-Map program. > > > -- > <hopethishelps /> > Roy Kiesler [TeamSybase] > mySybase - http://my.sybase.com > > >
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"Roy C Wood" <woodrc@battelle.org> wrote in message news:b6Q4MRxWAHA.202@forums.sybase.com... > Yes I know that one of the major reasons software projects fail is becasue > of lack > of training!!!!! Yes, we will have to ramp up in JAVA and in web technology > in general. .... and even more so if you consider .NET languages such as VB.NET or C#. > Our project is slated to begin in January 2001 and last 2 years. That rules out .NET, doesn't it? Even if you spend the first 3 months of the project doing architecture and design, it would still be a serious risk to go with a pre-release version of both IDE and app server. > We don't have a plan yet! Good! Tool selection should be an outcome of the architecture, not the other way around. Gather requirements, design your application, and finally, select the toolset that best addresses your specific needs. > We already have the funding in the bank! Good! Spend it wisely. Design first, then select the tools. > Are you available Roy? > We are right next door in Cambridge :*) I don't work for Noblestar anymore -- I'm with Percussion right now, in Stoneham, MA. If you need a content management solution (beware! our tool is Java and XML-based), give me a buzz. -- <hopethishelps /> Roy Kiesler [TeamSybase] mySybase - http://my.sybase.com
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Why do you think that EAS has not taken off? According to GIGA/Gartner, EAS ranks third in market share, 1% behind IBM's Websphere and both Sybase and IBM have been gaining ground on Weblogic. EAS is the base for several key products at Sybase (Financial Fusion, Enterprise Portal etc) and as such, I don't think it will be going away anytime soon (like maybe never). None of the other solutions offer the PowerBuilder support you want to leverage. The other products do not support the same level of openness as EAServer, (Java, CORBA, COM etc), and are way behind in terms of J2EE certification (if that's important to you). Of the big three, only Sybase is shipping a J2EE certified version (or at least will be by next week). BEA's certified version is currently in Beta, and last I heard was slated for Q2 release next year. I've not heard if IBM is even planning on certification or not. And of course, MS supports MS and that's it. What you need in terms of Sybase products is EAServer (and PB if you plan to use PB). EAServer is a bundle that includes Jaguar, PowerDynamo, PowerSite and PowerJ. Jaguar is the key element as it is the application server. It supports JSP Pages, Servlets, EJB's, COM, CORBA, PB etc etc. Dynamo is a dynamic page server that hooks into a web-server and gives you pretty much an ASP equivalent that can talk Java. PowerSite and PowerJ are the HTML and Java editing tools that Sybase has, but you could use any tools you want to do HTML and/or Java. There is a white paper that I wrote (should be up on Sybase's website, or you can get it from mine, www.power3.com), that talks about taking applications to the web, and I'd recommend looking at the Cynergy EAS Framework (it's free) for PowerBuilder. It will help you develop PB components for Jaguar really quickly. regards, Bill Green Roy C Wood wrote: > I also have concerns about PB's future! > > We have a large customer that is buying into web technology for the future. > Today this customer has apps built using Pb and progress etc.. that are > deployed > virtually worldwide. They want to go to thin clients and decentralize the > db. > I will be on a team involved in the technology decisions from the beginning. > > I am looking at various technologies including but not limited to the > following: > BEA weblogic > websphere > visual studio + the new ".NET" archictecture. > PB eas server + whatever else is needed to make this work. > MS IIS etc...... > > I would like to use the Sybase solution because that way I can leverage the > PB experience > that we have in our office. The problem is that if EAS doesn't take off will > we end up in the > same scenario we got with (install builder + object cycle etc...). Products > dropped with no migration strategy because SYBASE did not want to spend the > money to support them anymore (shifting focus). > > I know that Microsoft supports products that don't make money because they > can afford to! > Sybase can't! > > My boss is real gung ho on Microsoft and I love PB but the future is > uncertain and I know > a company like Microsoft will be here in the future. > > I am still confused to as to what products I need from SYBASE in order to > build the future. > Jaguar? > EAS > PB > Dynamo > > We are starting from scratch and it doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy when > I go to the > sybase website and can't make heads or tales of what I need and what does > what????? > It also may be that I am not the brightest bulb in the bunch :*) > > Does anybody have any pointers to white papers etc... that I can research to > help me > and my colleagues on all this? > > "Bill Green[TeamSybase]" <bill.green@teamsybase.com> wrote in message > news:3A226F88.426C0BEF@teamsybase.com... > > Take a look at > > > > http://my.sybase.com/detail/1,3693,1009639,00.html > > > > regards, > > Bill > > > > contact_tentacle@hotmail.com wrote: > > > > > I work for a fortune 500 company who is looking at developing a client > > > server software package. It is of course geared to be web enabled as > well > > > as normal client server. As a Powerbuilder and Visual Basic programmer > for > > > more than 8 years I believe that going with Powerbuilder on this project > is > > > a good decision, my colleagues and managers does not. It has been > rumored > > > for some time now that Powerbuilder is dying a slow but eminent death > and > > > I'm rather saddened by this since I personally feel Powerbuilder is a > great > > > tool to work with. I couldn't find any substantial information on your > web > > > page to help me convince people other wise and would greatly appreciate > it > > > if you can supply me with some specifications and information on where > > > Sybase sees Powerbuilder in the future. Thank you in advance for your > help. > > > > -- > > Bill Green[TeamSybase] > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > Good Links to know, good places to go: > > > > News: Sybase Portal is live - Go http://my.sybase.com > > > > Developer stuff on my.sybase.com > > Find things like: > > -- EAServer 3.6 maintenance release is available > > -- PowerBuilder C3 maintenance release available (build 8046) > > -- Components, White papers, articles and more > > -- Web DataWindow Article Series (Author: Larry Cermak) > > -- Jaguar Agent for Web Servers (HTTP access to PB components) > > > > PFC Guide - http://www.pfcguide.com > > > > Power3 - Custom Training - http://www.power3.com > > Bill Green @ Power3 - wgreen@power3.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > > > -- Bill Green[TeamSybase] ----------------------------------------------------------- Good Links to know, good places to go: News: Sybase Portal is live - Go http://my.sybase.com Developer stuff on my.sybase.com Find things like: -- EAServer 3.6 maintenance release is available -- PowerBuilder C3 maintenance release available (build 8046) -- Components, White papers, articles and more -- Web DataWindow Article Series (Author: Larry Cermak) -- Jaguar Agent for Web Servers (HTTP access to PB components) PFC Guide - http://www.pfcguide.com Power3 - Custom Training - http://www.power3.com Bill Green @ Power3 - wgreen@power3.com -----------------------------------------------------------
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