Why Powerbuilder's future is .Net

Does Sybase think traditional PB need not to improve any
more?


//////////////////////////////////////
string ls_me

ls_me = 'an honest PB customer'

Choose case PBversion

case < 'PB11'
   messagebox('Oh','I am be fed up with the ugly UI and I
need B/S development')
case 'PB11'
    #IF Defined PBNATIVE Then
   	messagebox('God','any difference with PB6?')
    #Elseif  Defined PBWEBFORM Then
	messagebox('Good','it is abstractive but performance need
optimize')
    #Elseif  Defined PBWINFORM Then	
	messagebox('Ah','Shold anyone would develop a WinForms app
with PB?')
    #End if
case 'PB12'
    #IF Defined PBNATIVE Then
   	messagebox('God','any difference with PB6?')
    #Elseif  Defined PBDotNet Then
	messagebox('God','any difference with PB11?')
    #IF Defined PBWPF Then
	messagebox('Oh','Could it support 64bit OS? Could it bring
us a real revolution like wii(my favorite gambox)? Or only
something like WinForms with more unsupported old features?
Could ....?')
     end if	

case >'PB12'
    messagebox('Hi','What is the PowerBuilder? Now I am
finally proficient in Visual Studio, though I miss
datawindow very much. ')	
end choose
     	
0
acme
3/11/2009 8:38:32 AM
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I think '#IF Defined PBWPF Then'

should be '#ELSEIF Defined PBWPF Then'

Thanks
Eric

P.s. I will wait for PB 12. But our clients are not interested in the 
way it looks. They just want to get the job done.

acme schreef:
> Does Sybase think traditional PB need not to improve any
> more?
> 
> 
> //////////////////////////////////////
> string ls_me
> 
> ls_me = 'an honest PB customer'
> 
> Choose case PBversion
> 
> case < 'PB11'
>    messagebox('Oh','I am be fed up with the ugly UI and I
> need B/S development')
> case 'PB11'
>     #IF Defined PBNATIVE Then
>    	messagebox('God','any difference with PB6?')
>     #Elseif  Defined PBWEBFORM Then
> 	messagebox('Good','it is abstractive but performance need
> optimize')
>     #Elseif  Defined PBWINFORM Then	
> 	messagebox('Ah','Shold anyone would develop a WinForms app
> with PB?')
>     #End if
> case 'PB12'
>     #IF Defined PBNATIVE Then
>    	messagebox('God','any difference with PB6?')
>     #Elseif  Defined PBDotNet Then
> 	messagebox('God','any difference with PB11?')
>     #IF Defined PBWPF Then
> 	messagebox('Oh','Could it support 64bit OS? Could it bring
> us a real revolution like wii(my favorite gambox)? Or only
> something like WinForms with more unsupported old features?
> Could ....?')
>      end if	
> 
> case >'PB12'
>     messagebox('Hi','What is the PowerBuilder? Now I am
> finally proficient in Visual Studio, though I miss
> datawindow very much. ')	
> end choose
>      	
0
Ontsnapt
3/11/2009 9:49:57 AM
Yes :)
I found it after post but I can not edit it,thanks.

> I think '#IF Defined PBWPF Then'
>
> should be '#ELSEIF Defined PBWPF Then'
>
> Thanks
> Eric
>
0
acme
3/11/2009 10:52:18 AM
PB12 will have two development environments. First is the 'classic' IDE 
which will be the same as 11.5 with only very minor changes.

Second is the 'WPF Workshop' which will use WPF for visuals and a revamped 
PowerScript that is a real .Net language.

<acme> wrote in message news:49b77888.2056.1681692777@sybase.com...
> Does Sybase think traditional PB need not to improve any
> more?
>
>
> //////////////////////////////////////
> string ls_me
>
> ls_me = 'an honest PB customer'
>
> Choose case PBversion
>
> case < 'PB11'
>   messagebox('Oh','I am be fed up with the ugly UI and I
> need B/S development')
> case 'PB11'
>    #IF Defined PBNATIVE Then
>   messagebox('God','any difference with PB6?')
>    #Elseif  Defined PBWEBFORM Then
> messagebox('Good','it is abstractive but performance need
> optimize')
>    #Elseif  Defined PBWINFORM Then
> messagebox('Ah','Shold anyone would develop a WinForms app
> with PB?')
>    #End if
> case 'PB12'
>    #IF Defined PBNATIVE Then
>   messagebox('God','any difference with PB6?')
>    #Elseif  Defined PBDotNet Then
> messagebox('God','any difference with PB11?')
>    #IF Defined PBWPF Then
> messagebox('Oh','Could it support 64bit OS? Could it bring
> us a real revolution like wii(my favorite gambox)? Or only
> something like WinForms with more unsupported old features?
> Could ....?')
>     end if
>
> case >'PB12'
>    messagebox('Hi','What is the PowerBuilder? Now I am
> finally proficient in Visual Studio, though I miss
> datawindow very much. ')
> end choose
> 


0
Roland
3/11/2009 12:41:46 PM
I can tell you one reason why PowerBuilder's future is .NET and it is a very 
sad revelation to me; some potential corporate customers refused to buy my 
product because it was written in PowerBuilder. They regard PowerBuilder as 
some kind of legacy application not suitable for "modern" applications. I/We 
know it is a perception that could not be more wrong but there it is. If I 
could say it was a .NET app they would be happy.

Other reasons might be that if I can leverage the entire power of the .NET 
frameworks and the many controls from 3rd parties as soon as it is available 
and without Sybase going through a very long development phase to catch up 
then I am all the happier.

WPF looks like a great tool to take user interface building forward. However 
for data entry screens (NOT grid controls, proper data entry screens 
containing 50+ fields all with masking and validation) in large numbers 
(500+) WPF is like programming in assembler. WPF cries out for a 4GL and 
nothing exists at the moment. VS is nice but not for that kind of thing.

If PB can get the datawindow going without spoiling WPF then hopefully we 
will have a decent 4GL tool. And one acceptable to corporate developers and 
buyer of finished applications. We all want to see how it is going to be 
done. (WPF can nest controls in controls - will I be able to make a WPF 
widget and embed it in a DW? How about wrapping some DW fields in an 
expander control? How will it support embedding Winforms - same as native 
WPF? How about ActiveX control support - done via WinForms so will that be 
supported? These are just a few migration questions that strike me)

64 bit is the one thing we should get though I hope the PB user will get 
control of more compiler switches so that the bitness can be chosen at 
compile time.

me> wrote in message news:49b77888.2056.1681692777@sybase.com...
> Does Sybase think traditional PB need not to improve any
> more?
>
>
> //////////////////////////////////////
> string ls_me
>
> ls_me = 'an honest PB customer'
>
> Choose case PBversion
>
> case < 'PB11'
>   messagebox('Oh','I am be fed up with the ugly UI and I
> need B/S development')
> case 'PB11'
>    #IF Defined PBNATIVE Then
>   messagebox('God','any difference with PB6?')
>    #Elseif  Defined PBWEBFORM Then
> messagebox('Good','it is abstractive but performance need
> optimize')
>    #Elseif  Defined PBWINFORM Then
> messagebox('Ah','Shold anyone would develop a WinForms app
> with PB?')
>    #End if
> case 'PB12'
>    #IF Defined PBNATIVE Then
>   messagebox('God','any difference with PB6?')
>    #Elseif  Defined PBDotNet Then
> messagebox('God','any difference with PB11?')
>    #IF Defined PBWPF Then
> messagebox('Oh','Could it support 64bit OS? Could it bring
> us a real revolution like wii(my favorite gambox)? Or only
> something like WinForms with more unsupported old features?
> Could ....?')
>     end if
>
> case >'PB12'
>    messagebox('Hi','What is the PowerBuilder? Now I am
> finally proficient in Visual Studio, though I miss
> datawindow very much. ')
> end choose
> 


0
Clive
3/11/2009 4:04:58 PM
>    #IF Defined PBNATIVE Then
>   messagebox('God','any difference with PB6?')


Ummm.....  Yes.   There's quite a bit of difference between native Win32 
apps written in PB6 and PB11.5.
The quality of the interface developed is directly proportional to the 
talent of the developer writing it.  If you're not seeing a difference 
between PB6 and PB11.5, I would ask why not?

-- 
Paul Horan[Sybase]
paulhoran.pbdjmagazine.com


0
Paul
3/11/2009 4:14:02 PM
If your customer refused to buy your product because it was
written in PowerBuilder, I have to say it is really a
cothurnus for PB.  By the way, if your customer want to pay
application written with java? or Flex, would you expect
PowerBuilder 15? PowerBuilder is losing its power.

The 3rd party controls, I wonder how many 3rd party controls
a product needs. Why they only could be used till all PB
programs are converted to .Net, if so, Sybase should make PB
programs convert to VB or Delphi from PB7 or more earlier
version. I think it should not be the key reason to decide
the PowerBuilder's future.

I admit WPF is a great tool to take user interface, before
that, I think you could try Blend, to see how complex if you
want to get a attractive interface, and I recommend
PBGUIControls(http://www.powertothebuilder.com/).
0
acme
3/12/2009 1:57:33 AM
I apologize for that, it is some exaggerated.
0
acme
3/12/2009 2:00:10 AM
> Second is the 'WPF Workshop' which will use WPF for visuals and a  
> revamped
> PowerScript that is a real .Net language.
>

Wait a minute...did you just say that Powerscript will be fully CLS  
compliant in WPF workshop? :)
0
Troy
3/12/2009 1:14:07 PM
That's the plan. 

Regards,
Dave Fish
Sybase

PowerBuilder Blog:
http://powerbuilderevangelist.blogspot.com/

On 12 Mar 2009 05:14:07 -0800, Troy <troy-no-spam@onesplace.com>
wrote:

>
>> Second is the 'WPF Workshop' which will use WPF for visuals and a  
>> revamped
>> PowerScript that is a real .Net language.
>>
>
>Wait a minute...did you just say that Powerscript will be fully CLS  
>compliant in WPF workshop? :)
0
Dave
3/12/2009 2:51:19 PM
Seems no one even Team Sybase guys want to answer this
question.
In fact, I also don't know what is the PowerBuidler's
future.
I don't believe SilverLight will substitute Web Form, as you
explorer microsoft.com, you have to install Flash plugin but
not .net framework 3.0. I always thnk SilverLight is
somelike XBox, you may like it but you may always be
attracted by PS3.
IMHO,SilverLight is just a beginner compare with Flash,
following .net means you always hang behind it.
What I want to say is "PowerBuilder needs more revolution
from itself,but not be tied with some other thing".
0
acme
3/15/2009 1:17:25 PM
I think this question has been answered on numerous occasions. 

PowerBuilder's future is .NET because .NET is becoming the platform of
choice for Windows applications. Win32 will be around for some time
but few organizations are developing new applications on that
platform. 

Sybase is the only tools vendor that is providing a migration path for
Win32 applications to .NET so that customers can leverage their
investment in existing code into this platform. Even so we can only
take you so far and a certain amount of refactoring will be required
for those applications to take advantage of a lot of the features that
..NET offers. 

Regards,
Dave Fish
Sybase

PowerBuilder Blog:
http://powerbuilderevangelist.blogspot.com/

On 15 Mar 2009 05:17:25 -0800, acme wrote:

>Seems no one even Team Sybase guys want to answer this
>question.
>In fact, I also don't know what is the PowerBuidler's
>future.
>I don't believe SilverLight will substitute Web Form, as you
>explorer microsoft.com, you have to install Flash plugin but
>not .net framework 3.0. I always thnk SilverLight is
>somelike XBox, you may like it but you may always be
>attracted by PS3.
>IMHO,SilverLight is just a beginner compare with Flash,
>following .net means you always hang behind it.
>What I want to say is "PowerBuilder needs more revolution
>from itself,but not be tied with some other thing".
0
Dave
3/15/2009 2:55:45 PM
Not really. Remember the horror that is the VB upgrade wizard? The only  
thing Sybase is doing differently is not making everyone transition in 1  
release. Instead, its slowly forced over several releases by a ever  
expanding list of unsupported features or "if you want that you have to do  
this". Like you say, can't expect Sybase to do everything. I can show you  
exactly where MS MVPs said that when VS.Net released in defense of the  
upgrade wizard. There are just too many decisions that cannot be made  
without a programmers intent known.

I tend to agree with what's been said in the past, PB couldn't afford to  
do what MS did with VB. All this seems to be is a different path to the  
same destination - full .Net support.

Troy




> Sybase is the only tools vendor that is providing a migration path for
> Win32 applications to .NET so that customers can leverage their
> investment in existing code into this platform.
0
Troy
3/16/2009 1:47:18 PM
The initial web deployment option for PB12 WPF Workshop will be XBAP. Go 
here for more info:

http://www.xbap.org/index.html

Well obviously SilverLight is a beginner compared to Flash, Flash has been 
around a long time. That would not be an opinion, it is a fact. Just because 
you found a page on Microsoft's website that still uses Flash doesn't mean 
that Silverlight would be a bad direction for PowerBuilder.

<acme> wrote in message news:49bcffe5.3ae1.1681692777@sybase.com...
> Seems no one even Team Sybase guys want to answer this
> question.
> In fact, I also don't know what is the PowerBuidler's
> future.
> I don't believe SilverLight will substitute Web Form, as you
> explorer microsoft.com, you have to install Flash plugin but
> not .net framework 3.0. I always thnk SilverLight is
> somelike XBox, you may like it but you may always be
> attracted by PS3.
> IMHO,SilverLight is just a beginner compare with Flash,
> following .net means you always hang behind it.
> What I want to say is "PowerBuilder needs more revolution
> from itself,but not be tied with some other thing". 


0
Roland
3/16/2009 2:01:36 PM
The reality is, it is an *enormous* amount of work to bring the VS
shell inside of PowerBuilder, hook it up and make it work. We have had
to reallocate all of our resources to work on this. No other vendor
has done this for a complete development tool, and as Dave said, no
other vendor has provided a migration path.

We have analyst support for our path, and will be releasing a
whitepaper written by an analyst firm shortly. In fact, our strategy
is what will be recommended for other 4gl vendors.

Just like every other company, we have to make choices. We can't do
everything we'd like to do, we have to make business decisions based
on an analysis of ROI. We believe there is value in PowerBuilder and
we believe that we believe that after this initial investment in the
VS shell with the v12 IDE, we will be able to focus on adding value,
differentiated technology.

The win32 UI is very different in v11.5 than it is in v6. Have we done
everything we want to do? No, but who has?

Your passion and commitment is appreciated and valued, but just like
everyone else, we have difficult choices to make. Just yesterday I
dealt with a customer who was very upset we removed support for JSP.

And, yes, Silverlight is new compared to Flash so it won't be as
mature. But, MS is betting a lot on it and they are very concerned
about competition from Google and Adobe, and leveraging MS' technology
is, we believe, the best path for us to achieve the most results in
the least amount of time.

Sue Dunnell
PowerBuilder Product Manager

0
sue
3/22/2009 4:36:09 AM
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