about open with pipe '-|', '|-'

I guess I need a mnemonic device to trick myself into remembering
which way the pipe with dash symbol goes.

  And I suppose I should apologize for the cry baby rant in
   advance:

Even now I'm flopping around trying to remember...

I've written scripts involving sending mail with sendmail from perl.
Or capturing the output of rsync etc.

I used a piped open like this:

  open my $ch, '|-', "$sendm" or die
                     "Can't open $sendm: $!";

  while (<$sch>){
    print $ch bleh;
    print $ch blah;
 }

Or perhaps it was like this:

  open my $ch, '-|', "$sendm" or die
   [...]

It may have been either way.  I don't have it handy.  But one way,
string $bleh and $blah get sent as mail.

My question is not so much which was right for that usage (although
that would be helpful too), but how to know at a moments thought, how
to setup the pipe for that usage.

One way might inject mail into sendmail with a while loop, the other
might allow one to track (or search etc.) the output of some command
in a while loop.

One way fails and can cause some confusion in tracking the
problem.

So the need here (beyond importing someone elses' brain) is how
to remember which way.

There must be something that would make even an intellectually
challenged sort like me ... remember.

Yes, yes, I know I can test and get it right.... which I've done
repeatedly. Here, I'm looking for a way to fix it in my mind.

As soon as I think I've got it right by thinking:

  ok, left side is into the command
     right side is out.

If I start pondering over that ... it begins to seem it is the other
way.

Gack.... I'm sick of it.

0
reader
5/9/2014 8:41:02 PM
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On Fri, 09 May 2014 16:41:02 -0400
Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> wrote:

> As soon as I think I've got it right by thinking:
> 
>   ok, left side is into the command
>      right side is out.
> 
> If I start pondering over that ... it begins to seem it is the other
> way.
> 
> Gack.... I'm sick of it.

Agreed. I wished they used something like: ">|" and "<|"


-- 
Don't stop where the ink does.
	Shawn
0
shawnhcorey
5/9/2014 8:58:45 PM
On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 1:41 PM, Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> wrote:
> I guess I need a mnemonic device to trick myself into remembering
> which way the pipe with dash symbol goes.

Think of it as "producer" and "consumer".  You could use your file
handle variable to remind yourself instead of using just "$ch".

HIH,
Ken Wolcott
0
kennethwolcott
5/9/2014 9:03:04 PM
Kenneth Wolcott <kennethwolcott@gmail.com> writes:

> On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 1:41 PM, Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> wrote:
>> I guess I need a mnemonic device to trick myself into remembering
>> which way the pipe with dash symbol goes.
>
> Think of it as "producer" and "consumer".  You could use your file
> handle variable to remind yourself instead of using just "$ch".

Well, yeah except then I would still have to remember which pipe did
what in order to supply the right filehandle... unless you meant I
would eventually remember from many uses and the requisite testing or
lookup on all those occasions.

I'm thinking something more like the old standby lots of women and
non-mechanically inclined men use to remember which way to turn a bolt
to tighten or loosen it.

Righty-tighty lefty-loosey

What would be the appropriate synonym? 

0
reader
5/9/2014 11:40:27 PM
On 09/05/2014 21:58, Shawn H Corey wrote:
> On Fri, 09 May 2014 16:41:02 -0400
> Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> Agreed. I wished they used something like: ">|" and "<|"

Hey Shawn

You should raise a bug using `perlbug` on the command line. I amd sure
it would be considered carefully and you would get a reasoned response.

I think I would go with `>|` and `|>` though, which allows for `>|>` if
there is ever a real read/write open mode.

Rob





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0
rob
5/10/2014 12:38:44 AM
On 09/05/2014 21:41, Harry Putnam wrote:
> I guess I need a mnemonic device to trick myself into remembering
> which way the pipe with dash symbol goes.
>
>    And I suppose I should apologize for the cry baby rant in
>     advance:
>
> Even now I'm flopping around trying to remember...
>
> I've written scripts involving sending mail with sendmail from perl.
> Or capturing the output of rsync etc.
>
> I used a piped open like this:
>
>    open my $ch, '|-', "$sendm" or die
>                       "Can't open $sendm: $!";
>
>    while (<$sch>){
>      print $ch bleh;
>      print $ch blah;
>   }
>
> Or perhaps it was like this:
>
>    open my $ch, '-|', "$sendm" or die
>     [...]
>
> It may have been either way.  I don't have it handy.  But one way,
> string $bleh and $blah get sent as mail.
>
> My question is not so much which was right for that usage (although
> that would be helpful too), but how to know at a moments thought, how
> to setup the pipe for that usage.
>
> One way might inject mail into sendmail with a while loop, the other
> might allow one to track (or search etc.) the output of some command
> in a while loop.
>
> One way fails and can cause some confusion in tracking the
> problem.
>
> So the need here (beyond importing someone elses' brain) is how
> to remember which way.
>
> There must be something that would make even an intellectually
> challenged sort like me ... remember.
>
> Yes, yes, I know I can test and get it right.... which I've done
> repeatedly. Here, I'm looking for a way to fix it in my mind.
>
> As soon as I think I've got it right by thinking:
>
>    ok, left side is into the command
>       right side is out.

Hi Harry

Information flow is left-to-right, the same as when you use pipes to
chain a string of commands on the terminal.

I sympathise, but if you remember the history - first of all that larry
Wall wrote the language from the point of view of a linguist - and
secondly that

     open my $ch, '| command p1 p2'

means to open a pipe to `command p1 p2`. This format happens to use the
shell to do its stuff.

This was improved in Perl 5 version 6-ish to make this work with the
three-parameter form of `open`, like this

     open my $ch, '|-', 'command', 'p1', 'p2'

So the hyphen, or dash, is an *it* pronoun like `$_`, and this syntax
opens a pipe to *it*, where *it* is the given command and parameters.

The same applies to using a mode of `-|`, where the *it* is still the
command and parameters, but it is on the left of the pipe, so the Perl
program is opening a pipe *from* the command.

I hope that helps.

Rob



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0
rob
5/10/2014 12:55:52 AM
On 05/09/2014 04:58 PM, Shawn H Corey wrote:
> On Fri, 09 May 2014 16:41:02 -0400
> Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
>> As soon as I think I've got it right by thinking:
>>
>>    ok, left side is into the command
>>       right side is out.
>>
>> If I start pondering over that ... it begins to seem it is the other
>> way.
>>
>> Gack.... I'm sick of it.
>
> Agreed. I wished they used something like: ">|" and "<|"

they use - as that is also the magic name for stdio. in many unix tools 
you can pass - as the filename (in or out) and the program will use the 
appropriate i/o direction of stdio instead.

so it is an easy way to remember. |- has the pipe going out to the - so 
that means stdout will be connected to the handle. -| has the - going in 
to the pipe so that means stdin will be connected to the handle. and i 
mean stdin/out of the process being forked. and you can't do both ways 
as that would likely cause hanging with blocking i/o.

and if you want finer control, then use IPC::Open[23]

uri

-- 
Uri Guttman - The Perl Hunter
The Best Perl Jobs, The Best Perl Hackers
http://PerlHunter.com
0
uri
5/10/2014 2:48:50 AM
On 10/05/2014 03:48, Uri Guttman wrote:
> On 05/09/2014 04:58 PM, Shawn H Corey wrote:
>> On Fri, 09 May 2014 16:41:02 -0400
>> Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> wrote:
>>
>>> As soon as I think I've got it right by thinking:
>>>
>>>    ok, left side is into the command
>>>       right side is out.
>>>
>>> If I start pondering over that ... it begins to seem it is the other
>>> way.
>>>
>>> Gack.... I'm sick of it.
>>
>> Agreed. I wished they used something like: ">|" and "<|"
>
> they use - as that is also the magic name for stdio. in many unix tools
> you can pass - as the filename (in or out) and the program will use the
> appropriate i/o direction of stdio instead.
>
> so it is an easy way to remember. |- has the pipe going out to the - so
> that means stdout will be connected to the handle. -| has the - going in
> to the pipe so that means stdin will be connected to the handle. and i
> mean stdin/out of the process being forked. and you can't do both ways
> as that would likely cause hanging with blocking i/o.
>
> and if you want finer control, then use IPC::Open[23]

This is far from definitive, as there is no way of intuiting whether `-`
refers to the Perl program's STDIO or to the child process's. In fact

   open my $fh, '>-'

opens a handle to the Perl program's STDOUT, whereas

   open my $fh, '|-', 'command'

opens a handle to the child process's STDIN

So there is no consistency

Rob





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0
rob
5/10/2014 3:08:39 AM
Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com> writes:

> so it is an easy way to remember. |- has the pipe going out to the -
> so that means stdout will be connected to the handle. -| has the -
> going in to the pipe so that means stdin will be connected to the
> handle. and i mean stdin/out of the process being forked. and you
> can't do both ways as that would likely cause hanging with blocking
> i/o.

Before reading this comment, please understand that I am thoroughly
confused about this...Not saying anything is right or wrong about what
anyone has said just that it appears like this to me..

I probably don't really understand some the terms used exactly. Like
the term child, which I take it is the process being run by the 'open'

You say this '|-' means stdout is connected to the handle.
That is where it really confuses me.  Is the 'handle' a code word for
sendmail in this scheme below?

In this little script below sendmail is having data piped into it, not
out of it.  Or so it seems to me.

The print cmds push data into sendmail, sendmail makes a message of it
and sends it; so the stdout of sendmail (the child... I guess?) is the
sent message.

What you say above seems to indicate the sent message is being piped into
sendmail, but that is what is coming out of sendmail.

The script below sends a message to me with the indicated content plus
the rest of the headers that sendmail has provided.

Confusing... eh?

-------       -------       ---=---       -------       -------

use strict;
use warnings;

my $hdr = "To: reader\@oi.local.lan\nSubject: The life of a pilgrim\n";
my $bdy = "now is the time\nfor all good men\nto come to the aid\n";

my $sndm = '/usr/sbin/sendmail';
my $rcp = 'reader';

open my $sm, '|-', "$sndm $rcp" or die
                       "Can't open $sndm: $!";
print $sm $hdr . "\n";
print $hdr  . "\n";
print $sm $bdy  . "\n";
print $bdy  . "\n";

close $sm;

-------       -------       ---=---       -------       -------


0
reader
5/10/2014 1:25:28 PM
Rob Dixon <rob.dixon@gmx.com> writes:

> On 09/05/2014 21:41, Harry Putnam wrote:
>> I guess I need a mnemonic device to trick myself into remembering
>> which way the pipe with dash symbol goes.
>>
>>    And I suppose I should apologize for the cry baby rant in
>>     advance:
>>
>> Even now I'm flopping around trying to remember...
>>
>> I've written scripts involving sending mail with sendmail from perl.
>> Or capturing the output of rsync etc.
>>
>> I used a piped open like this:
>>
>>    open my $ch, '|-', "$sendm" or die
>>                       "Can't open $sendm: $!";
>>
>>    while (<$sch>){
>>      print $ch bleh;
>>      print $ch blah;
>>   }
>>
>> Or perhaps it was like this:
>>
>>    open my $ch, '-|', "$sendm" or die
>>     [...]
>>
>> It may have been either way.  I don't have it handy.  But one way,
>> string $bleh and $blah get sent as mail.
>>
>> My question is not so much which was right for that usage (although
>> that would be helpful too), but how to know at a moments thought, how
>> to setup the pipe for that usage.
>>
>> One way might inject mail into sendmail with a while loop, the other
>> might allow one to track (or search etc.) the output of some command
>> in a while loop.
>>
>> One way fails and can cause some confusion in tracking the
>> problem.
>>
>> So the need here (beyond importing someone elses' brain) is how
>> to remember which way.
>>
>> There must be something that would make even an intellectually
>> challenged sort like me ... remember.
>>
>> Yes, yes, I know I can test and get it right.... which I've done
>> repeatedly. Here, I'm looking for a way to fix it in my mind.
>>
>> As soon as I think I've got it right by thinking:
>>
>>    ok, left side is into the command
>>       right side is out.
>
> Hi Harry
>
> Information flow is left-to-right, the same as when you use pipes to
> chain a string of commands on the terminal.
>
> I sympathise, but if you remember the history - first of all that larry
> Wall wrote the language from the point of view of a linguist - and
> secondly that
>
>     open my $ch, '| command p1 p2'
>
> means to open a pipe to `command p1 p2`. This format happens to use the
> shell to do its stuff.
>
> This was improved in Perl 5 version 6-ish to make this work with the
> three-parameter form of `open`, like this
>
>     open my $ch, '|-', 'command', 'p1', 'p2'
>
> So the hyphen, or dash, is an *it* pronoun like `$_`, and this syntax
> opens a pipe to *it*, where *it* is the given command and parameters.
>
> The same applies to using a mode of `-|`, where the *it* is still the
> command and parameters, but it is on the left of the pipe, so the Perl
> program is opening a pipe *from* the command.
>
> I hope that helps.

Yes it has, as always, thoughtful helpful hints.... thank you.

Am I mistaken in thinking that what you present above is the opposite
of uri's comments?

In the sendmail script I posted... it uses '|-' to push stuff thru the
pipe into the handle.

Lets say I want to run and involved rsync command with perl and wanted
to filter the output for certain details.

Wouldn't I use  '-|' to trap the output from rsync into a while loop
for manipulation?
  (Please excuse any poor formulations... not a working script)

-------       -------       ---=---       -------       -------

  use strict;
  use warnings;

  my $source = '/some/super/deep/path/';
  my $destination = '/another/deepish/path/';
  my $rsync = 'rsync -avvz --stats --delete'
  
  
  open my $cmdh, '-|', "$rsync $source $destination" or die
                       "Can't open $rsync: $!";
  
  while (<$cmdh>){
    ## Line of rsync output are represented by $_ here.
    if (/$re/){
      [...]
    }elsif (/$re2/){
      [...]
    }
    [...]
  }

0
reader
5/10/2014 4:31:20 PM
Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes:

> Rob Dixon <rob.dixon@gmx.com> writes:
>
>> On 09/05/2014 21:41, Harry Putnam wrote:
>>> I guess I need a mnemonic device to trick myself into remembering
>>> which way the pipe with dash symbol goes.
>>>
>>>    And I suppose I should apologize for the cry baby rant in
>>>     advance:
>>>
>>> Even now I'm flopping around trying to remember...
>>>
>>> I've written scripts involving sending mail with sendmail from perl.
>>> Or capturing the output of rsync etc.
>>>
>>> I used a piped open like this:
>>>
>>>    open my $ch, '|-', "$sendm" or die
>>>                       "Can't open $sendm: $!";
>>>
>>>    while (<$sch>){
>>>      print $ch bleh;
>>>      print $ch blah;
>>>   }
>>>
>>> Or perhaps it was like this:
>>>
>>>    open my $ch, '-|', "$sendm" or die
>>>     [...]
>>>
>>> It may have been either way.  I don't have it handy.  But one way,
>>> string $bleh and $blah get sent as mail.
>>>
>>> My question is not so much which was right for that usage (although
>>> that would be helpful too), but how to know at a moments thought, how
>>> to setup the pipe for that usage.
>>>
>>> One way might inject mail into sendmail with a while loop, the other
>>> might allow one to track (or search etc.) the output of some command
>>> in a while loop.
>>>
>>> One way fails and can cause some confusion in tracking the
>>> problem.
>>>
>>> So the need here (beyond importing someone elses' brain) is how
>>> to remember which way.
>>>
>>> There must be something that would make even an intellectually
>>> challenged sort like me ... remember.
>>>
>>> Yes, yes, I know I can test and get it right.... which I've done
>>> repeatedly. Here, I'm looking for a way to fix it in my mind.
>>>
>>> As soon as I think I've got it right by thinking:
>>>
>>>    ok, left side is into the command
>>>       right side is out.
>>
>> Hi Harry
>>
>> Information flow is left-to-right, the same as when you use pipes to
>> chain a string of commands on the terminal.
>>
>> I sympathise, but if you remember the history - first of all that larry
>> Wall wrote the language from the point of view of a linguist - and
>> secondly that
>>
>>     open my $ch, '| command p1 p2'
>>
>> means to open a pipe to `command p1 p2`. This format happens to use the
>> shell to do its stuff.
>>
>> This was improved in Perl 5 version 6-ish to make this work with the
>> three-parameter form of `open`, like this
>>
>>     open my $ch, '|-', 'command', 'p1', 'p2'
>>
>> So the hyphen, or dash, is an *it* pronoun like `$_`, and this syntax
>> opens a pipe to *it*, where *it* is the given command and parameters.
>>
>> The same applies to using a mode of `-|`, where the *it* is still the
>> command and parameters, but it is on the left of the pipe, so the Perl
>> program is opening a pipe *from* the command.
>>
>> I hope that helps.
>
> Yes it has, as always, thoughtful helpful hints.... thank you.
>
> Am I mistaken in thinking that what you present above is the opposite
> of uri's comments?
>
> In the sendmail script I posted... it uses '|-' to push stuff thru the
> pipe into the handle.
>
> Lets say I want to run and involved rsync command with perl and wanted
> to filter the output for certain details.
>
> Wouldn't I use  '-|' to trap the output from rsync into a while loop
> for manipulation?
>   (Please excuse any poor formulations... not a working script)
>
> -------       -------       ---=---       -------       -------
>
>   use strict;
>   use warnings;
>
>   my $source = '/some/super/deep/path/';
>   my $destination = '/another/deepish/path/';
>   my $rsync = 'rsync -avvz --stats --delete'
>   
>   
>   open my $cmdh, '-|', "$rsync $source $destination" or die
>                        "Can't open $rsync: $!";
>   
>   while (<$cmdh>){
>     ## Line of rsync output are represented by $_ here.
>     if (/$re/){
>       [...]
>     }elsif (/$re2/){
>       [...]
>     }
>     [...]
>   }
   ^^^^
   close $cmdh;

0
reader
5/10/2014 4:44:35 PM
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I'm attempting to invoke with parameters:  Dim thing2 As New mydelsubPBStep(AddressOf pbStep) Me.Invoke(thing2, "setMax", dt.Rows.Count)      <---- this is where the error occurs   the delegate looks like this: Private Delegate Sub mydelsubPBStep(ByVal mode As String, ByVal value As Integer)   the function it's calling looks like this:Private Sub pbStep(ByVal mode As String, ByVal value As Integer) Select Case mode.ToLower Case "clear" ProgressBar1.Value = 0 Case "step" ProgressBar1.PerformStep() L...

EXEC sp_msforeachtable 'sp_spaceused ''?'''
What does the following SQL code mean?  EXEC sp_msforeachtable 'sp_spaceused ''?'''Johan TheunissenMCPD, MCSE, MCTS BizTalk 2006==============================Please mark the most helpful reply/replies as "Answer". JohanNL:sp_msforeachtable This is the name of the SP that resides in the master database.  This SP executes one or more commands for a table. JohanNL:sp_spaceused This is the command that you want to run for each of the tables residing in your current database.  As you might have understood so far, that this is again a...

'To', 'CC', & 'BCC'
Name: Dick Tracy Email: philipdottracyatoptusnetdotcomdotau Product: Thunderbird Summary: 'To', 'CC', & 'BCC' Comments: I have just started using Thunderbird and while I find it quite excellent- I suggest having a button to add addressees to 'BCC' as well. Currently each 'BCC' addressee has to be selected manually. I send e-mail to quite a number of people at a time and I do not wish to readily spread others addresses easily. Browser Details: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.6) Gecko/20070725 Firefox/2.0....

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