How can I put web-site files to the Apache web-server when I

I'm folllowing the execllent HOWTO from Sweerdna to set up an Apache
based web-server on my home lan  (as a setep to publishuing on a hosted
system). I was geeting on fine until I moved to one of my Windows
clients, started Dreamweaver and began to define a site. For the remote
site, Dreamwaver 2004 MX offers to browse to the web-server location
where I want to build my web--site - which, according to Swerdna's guide
is in /<servername>/srv/www/htdocs.

My windows (and other Linux) client can only see users and groups on
the server - how can I possibly get to /srv/www/htdocs. with write
permission, from a client machine  -any client machine?  Surely none is
ever going to have write permission to that location?


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0
XEyedBear
8/8/2009 5:06:01 PM
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I'm not sure on your solution but if I tell you my experience, it may
help.

I use ftp: to access my Son's windows server to manage web site folders
and files. Access is secured by IP, username and password.

My home Box (Linux) I can access on the LAN (Only the LAN) from my
Laptop using fish://. Or kssh which allows me to run any application on
the Box with X-display on the laptop. Once in that way I can access
anything. But it's secured by IP allocation, Public Key and password.

Maybe @swerdna! can advise


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caf4926
8/8/2009 5:16:02 PM
I appreciate the guidance. There's clearly something I don't understand
here:

Apache. under Linux. is overwhelmingly the web-server of choice across
the complete range of web-site sophistication. Dreamweaver is still, for
a major proportion of windows/mac-based  developers, the tool of choice.
Both of these claims of mine have been true (I think) for at least 5
years.I think it is entirely reasonable of me to expect therefore that
DreamWeaver can define and create a remote site on a Linux/Apache server
without problem - but I just cannot see how it can do it without having
write permission to root-owner resources.  This seems to me to be
extremely unlikely.

I really want to use DreamWeaver in this way because  it will give me
the great benefit of being able to synchronise my local, remote and test
web-sites - avoiding some horrible problems thereby.

I have posed the question to Swerdna. He has requested that I post it
here on this forum, presumably so that others can benefit from any
replies that kind people, like yourself, provide.


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XEyedBear
8/8/2009 5:56:01 PM
XEyedBear wrote:

> I'm folllowing the execllent HOWTO from Sweerdna to set up an Apache
> based web-server on my home lan  (as a setep to publishuing on a hosted
> system). I was geeting on fine until I moved to one of my Windows
> clients, started Dreamweaver and began to define a site. For the remote
> site, Dreamwaver 2004 MX offers to browse to the web-server location
> where I want to build my web--site - which, according to Swerdna's guide
> is in /<servername>/srv/www/htdocs.
> 
> My windows (and other Linux) client can only see users and groups on
> the server - how can I possibly get to /srv/www/htdocs. with write
> permission, from a client machine  -any client machine?  Surely none is
> ever going to have write permission to that location?

Just setup the DW FTP site the same way as standard FTP client: use the
user/password you have configured to access files under your linux box,
which probably is your opensuse user.

Greetings,

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0
ISO
8/8/2009 6:04:23 PM
Hi

Underneath htdocs I make a series of folders, one for each website I
want to put there, and I make them to be owned by webmaster suzette.
Suzette administers the website. (look for the word "suzette" in my
tutorial).

Look more closely at the tutorial and follow the travels of webmaster
suzette. She owns the document root /srv/www/htdocs/swerdna.org and puts
her files in the folder "swerdna.org" and makes that her document root.
She has ftp access to that folder and edit's files in there using
Quanta+, so I suppose if she understood dreammaker, she could access the
files from that too.


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swerdna
8/8/2009 9:46:01 PM
It's ok to make subfolders within /srv/www/htdocs owned by the people
who will be updating them so that they can write to files within them.
Just make sure the files are publicly readable so that Apache can serve
them. I recommend using sftp if updating from outside the LAN so that
password cannot be sniffed.

If you are using DW on a Mac, be sure to set the line endings to Unix
style or your PHP scripts won't render.


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ken
8/8/2009 11:06:01 PM
PS I think you were going to your doc root via Samba -- IMO scrap that
and go there (as ken_yap says) by sftp.


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swerdna
8/8/2009 11:36:01 PM
All these response are most helpful - thank you all. Actually, I think I
am just confusing myself as well as confusing you all. Here's the step
that I cannot take:

When using DreamWeaver, the starting point is to define local
(development) and remote (production) web-sites (which is nothing more,
I think, than the creation of a suitable folder in which to put an
'index.html' file). Creating the local site is no problem. DW asks for
the location of the remote site to be specified using what I would
describe as a file-naming convention. One can either type this in an
entry box or use the option to browse to the desired location on the
remote machine which is going to act as the web-server.

Having done that, then DW can 'upload', or put, the site files, when
they are ready, using a number of methods - of which ftp is the most
obvious and usual. I don't think there will be any problem in doing the
ftp step.

The big issue is that I cannot browse to a site like
//<my-web-server>/srv/www/htdocs - and I don't understand why. Yes, I
have got my own version of Suzette (not as nice looking I'm sure, but
still functional) who 'owns' the files as Swerdna suggests. 

I guess the key difficulty is that I am using SAMBA shares - users and
groups - in order to browse files and folders across the LAN. I didn't
see anything in the HOWTO about not using SAMBA . I'll read again to see
what I missed.


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XEyedBear
8/9/2009 10:46:02 AM
I stoped using windows apps some time ago, but I am fully familiar with
the Dreamweaver version you are using. It works very nicely.
Now I use Quanta and Bluefish.
But even back when I did use dreamweaver I never used the function you
are trying to use.
I always prefer to use ftp:// manually from konqueror.
Login to the server which is configured to permit me full r/rw access.
I then just copy and paste the new folder contents to the server. But
this I can see may seem rather clonky in comparison.


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caf4926
8/9/2009 10:56:01 AM
XEyedBear;2023833 Wrote: 
> All these response are most helpful - thank you all. Actually, I think I
> am just confusing myself as well as confusing you all. Here's the step
> that I cannot take:
> 
> When using DreamWeaver, the starting point is to define local
> (development) and remote (production) web-sites (which is nothing more,
> I think, than the creation of a suitable folder in which to put an
> 'index.html' file). Creating the local site is no problem. DW asks for
> the location of the remote site to be specified using what I would
> describe as a file-naming convention. One can either type this in an
> entry box or use the option to browse to the desired location on the
> remote machine which is going to act as the web-server.
> 
> Having done that, then DW can 'upload', or put, the site files, when
> they are ready, using a number of methods - of which ftp is the most
> obvious and usual. I don't think there will be any problem in doing the
> ftp step.
> 
> The big issue is that I cannot browse to a site like
> //<my-web-server>/srv/www/htdocs - and I don't understand why. Yes, I
> have got my own version of Suzette (not as nice looking I'm sure, but
> still functional) who 'owns' the files as Swerdna suggests. 
> 
> I guess the key difficulty is that I am using SAMBA shares - users and
> groups - in order to browse files and folders across the LAN. I didn't
> see anything in the HOWTO about not using SAMBA . I'll read again to see
> what I missed.
In the tutorial I didn't mention any method for going to the remote
site. I should edit it and tell users two things: (a) not to use Samba
and (b) that a good method is an encrypted ftp like sftp. I have used
Konqueror as my ftp client (like caf4926) and lately I use Filezilla
because I've switched from KDE to the excellent Gnome (don't flame me
ppl).

If dw uses a built in ftp client to get to remote sites, then if you
enable password protected ftp access to the doc root you'll probably be
good to go there in dw. But am I hearing from you that dw uses
windows-style file sharing?


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swerdna
8/9/2009 12:56:01 PM
swerdna;2023865 Wrote: 
> lately I use Filezilla because I've switched from KDE to the excellent
> Gnome (don't flame me ppl).
> 

LOL, awesome joke! rotfl! Also, excellent should be in between quotes
;)


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microchip8
8/9/2009 1:06:01 PM
microchip8;2023866 Wrote: 
> LOL, awesome joke! rotfl! Also, excellent should be in between quotes ;)
I forgot you'd be crouched out there somewhere, waiting to pounce lol!


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swerdna
8/9/2009 1:16:01 PM
swerdna;2023865 Wrote: 
> In the tutorial I didn't mention any method for going to the remote
> site. I should edit it and tell users two things: (a) not to use Samba
> and (b) that a good method is an encrypted ftp like sftp. I have used
> Konqueror as my ftp client (like caf4926) and lately I use Filezilla
> because I've switched from KDE to the excellent Gnome (don't flame me
> ppl).
> 
> If dw uses a built in ftp client to get to remote sites, then if you
> enable password protected ftp access to the doc root you'll probably be
> good to go there in dw. But am I hearing from you that dw uses
> windows-style file sharing?

Aside from the intriguing comments about Gnome (which I must avoid
persuing here), I am also intrigued about how to 'enable password
protected ftp access to the doc root'. Is that a setting inside the main
apache conf file?


I'm probably talking utter bol-ox about file naming in DW. As I said,
one can either specify the address on the remote system where the site
is to be created, or use DW to browse to it. In the latter case  I
presume it is a drill down from 'My Network Places' - except that for me
the drilling process ends either at the most deeply nested file in my
user id on the server or in that of the user equivalent to Suzette. I
certainly cannot get to /srv/www/htdocs in the way that I can using,
say, Dolphin locally on the server. And I certainly can't do it from a
Linux system on the LAN either. So browse doesn't work.

If I attempt to specify the location, using for example
//<server-name>/srv/www/htdocs (windows uses back slashes of course)
then DW presents me with the error message: "Cannot display the remote
folder. The network path was not found".

And at that point I'm dead in the water, surrounded by inappropriate
metaphors, as far as having a web-site managed by Apache goes.


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XEyedBear
8/9/2009 4:56:01 PM
caf4926;2023837 Wrote: 
> I stoped using windows apps some time ago, but I am fully familiar with
> the Dreamweaver version you are using. It works very nicely.
> Now I use Quanta and Bluefish.
> 


Apologies, I'm slightly off thread here, but are you saying that Quanta
is a viable alternative to DreamWeaver (and this is the important bit)
for a new web-site 'developer'? - who last wrote in mark-up language
when it was called GML, (which was not publicly available), back in 1978
or so. Dreamweaver is most supportive of simple users like myself,  with
its ability to "almost" create in WYSIWYG mode, then quickly test on a
real browser and switch to a code view immediately if that is required.


As I remember it, the old 'compose mode' GML it was very much WYGINWYW
(What you get is not what you want) mode, with tables being a serious
challenge. How does Quanta do it?


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XEyedBear
8/9/2009 5:16:01 PM
I think you know more about this than me. I'm about as good with web
development as I am at typing.
Here is a screen:_
[image:
http://thumbnails12.imagebam.com/4484/89154f44839417.gif] (\"http://www.imagebam.com/image/89154f44839417/\")_
_


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caf4926
8/9/2009 6:06:01 PM
XEyedBear;2023933 Wrote: 
> ................. the old 'compose mode' GML it was very much WYGINWYW
> (What you get is not what you want) mode, with tables being a serious
> challenge. How does Quanta do it?
Quanta (really Quanta+) does it by you typing raw xhtml and css code --
no hint of a GUI there.


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swerdna
8/9/2009 8:16:01 PM
This concept: > //<server-name>/srv/www/htdocsis utterly wrong as a concept. It implies that the root of the remote
computer is shared -- that the whole, entire, complete filesystem is
shared, which is not what you set up.
You didn't share / so you can't write //<server-name>/etc
You didn't share srv so you can't write //<server-name>/srv/etc
You didn't share htdocs so you can't write //<server-name>/www/htdocs

What you should and probably did share/enable is a directory way down
the file system tree. So the address would be more like this:

Code:
--------------------
    //<server-name>/network_name_of_folder
--------------------

without prepending the (invisible, non shared) parts of the filesystem
address.

Now, we can't really proceed to the proper description of the server's
network address until you tell us what you're using in dream weaver for
network communications: is it windows file sharing (aka SMB
communications aka Samba) or is it some form of ftp?

Luck


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swerdna
8/9/2009 8:16:01 PM
swerdna;2023994 Wrote: 
> This concept: is utterly wrong as a concept. It implies that the root of
> the remote computer is shared -- that the whole, entire, complete
> filesystem is shared, which is not what you set up.
> You didn't share / so you can't write //<server-name>/etc
> You didn't share srv so you can't write //<server-name>/srv/etc
> You didn't share htdocs so you can't write //<server-name>/www/htdocs
> 
> What you should and probably did share/enable is a directory way down
> the file system tree. So the address would be more like this:
> > 
Code:
--------------------
  >   > //<server-name>/network_name_of_folder
--------------------
> > 
> without prepending the (invisible, non shared) parts of the
> filesystem address.
> 
> Now, we can't really proceed to the proper description of the
> server's network address until you tell us what you're using in dream
> weaver for network communications: is it windows file sharing (aka SMB
> communications aka Samba) or is it some form of ftp?
> 
> Luck

Your use of the colour highlight here makes this much easier to
understand - thanks for this. 

Right now I don't have a any folder (that I have created) in
/srv/www/htdocs - I have only got to the stage of being able to see the
'It Works' page from my Linux clients on my LAN. I thought a folder,
containing my highest level web-site file  (index.html ?), would be
defined for me in /htdocs by DW as part of the remote site definition. I
expected that DW had already gathered enough information, as part of the
local site definition, to be able to name that folder in /htdocs. Are
you saying that I should do that myself - using my counter-part to
Suzette?

I cannot be sure of what DW is doing. But my guess is that right at the
start o the process of developing a site in DW, when it is wanting to
defines the remote site, it is using Windows file sharing. This looks
like a one-time only process - as part of the browse option.

When it comes to 'putting' the production files (*html code, image
data, scripts etc) to the server, it will use ftp - because (I suppose)
many web-sites are developed on clients which are not on a LAN with the
web server.


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XEyedBear
8/9/2009 9:06:02 PM
You can use htdocs or another folder (a subfolder and define a virtual
host like suzette did).

If you follow her footsteps in the section titled "A Working Website,
www.swerdna.org" but change the names, it will work. And there's a CGI
bin config there too. Plus if you need them, server side includes. If
you make your version of the folder "swerdna.org", chown it over to your
webmaster version of suzette. Then make it available via
ftp/sftp/whatever.


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swerdna
8/9/2009 10:26:01 PM
swerdna;2024036 Wrote: 
> You can use htdocs or another folder (a subfolder and define a virtual
> host like suzette did).
> 
> If you follow her footsteps in the section titled "A Working Website,
> www.swerdna.org" but change the names, it will work. And there's a CGI
> bin config there too. Plus if you need them, server side includes. If
> you make your version of the folder "swerdna.org", chown it over to your
> webmaster version of suzette. Then make it available via
> ftp/sftp/whatever (I use vsftpd -- so easy).

Generally, I'm not having any problems following your tutorial - which
has been a god-send for me (aside from having some age-related deep
brain dysfunction which could not - would not -  see the difference
between 'srv' and 'svr'; that took a whole day to spot). So I am able to
get a crude page to show on any browser on any client on my home LAN.

To work up the real site I'll need to use DW. Using a hand-coding tool
like Quanta+ doesn't meet my needs But I now see that DW cannot be used
to either define or 'populate' the remote site, in Network mode, using
windows-style shares (because, based on your red letters, I am most
certainly not going to share the branch /svr/www/htdocs as you feared I
might). So, having created the DocumentRoot for the web-site, following
your tutorial, I will have to 'put' the site files using either the ftp
functions in DW or, as you recommend, using vsftp.

Now comes the rub: surely this implies that I have to set uo my
web-server as an ftp server too?


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XEyedBear
8/11/2009 9:16:01 AM
ftp access uses FTP, natch. vsftpd is a FTP server. FTP is a protocol
where passwords go in the clear. If you are accessing from outside the
LAN, it is possible for a person in the middle to see your passwords.
Which is dangerous if they are login passwords.

sftp access uses SSH. SFTP is not related to FTP. It was a poor choice
of acronym. People are constantly confusing SFTP with FTP, and with
FTPS. You already have a SSH server running. Plus this is encrypted
communications.

There is something else called FTPS which is FTP but over SSL. This is
also safe from snooping. FTPS is supported by a FTP server like vsftpd.

So it would be best if DW supported SFTP. If not, then try for FTPS. If
you have no choice, then use FTP, but use a separate password file so
that the passwords are not login passwords and at most intruders can
deface your site. Which is not so good really.

FTP/FTPS are harder to set up through firewalls than SSH due the the
use of two TCP ports, for command and data. Another plus for SSH.


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ken
8/11/2009 9:36:01 AM
I access my web servers on a LAN now a days. I've moved them to my
desktop and have an apache server on a computer in the corner. My web
page drafting is done on a separate workstation and put across later
using filezilla (because I love Gnome) and vsftpd. Both the server and
the workstation are individually firewalled by SuSEfirewall2 and the LAN
is inside another firewall, one of the cheep hardware firewalls in a
commercial router. And so I use vsftpd rather than sftp.

If you want to do, here's the steps, assuming you're using
....htdocs/xeyedbear.org as your doc root for your 

  
- Install rpm vsftpd
- SuSEfirewall2 --> allowed services --> vsftpd server
- Yast runlevels --> vsftpd --> on
- Back up the config file: sudo mv /etc/vsftpd.conf
  /etc/vsftpd.conf.default
- copy this file into a new file /etc/vsftpd.conf and make the
  permissions
  drw------- and owner to be root:root  
Code:
--------------------
        dirmessage_enable=YES
    nopriv_user=ftpsecure
    anonymous_enable=NO
    anon_world_readable_only=YES
    syslog_enable=NO
    log_ftp_protocol=YES
    xferlog_enable=YES
    vsftpd_log_file=/var/log/vsftpd.log
    connect_from_port_20=YES
    pam_service_name=vsftpd
    listen=YES
    ssl_enable=NO
    pasv_min_port=30000
    pasv_max_port=30100
    anon_mkdir_write_enable=NO
    anon_root=/srv/ftp
    anon_upload_enable=NO
    chroot_local_user=YES
    ftpd_banner=Welcome message
    idle_session_timeout=900
    local_enable=YES
    log_ftp_protocol=NO
    max_clients=10
    max_per_ip=10
    pasv_enable=YES
    ssl_sslv2=NO
    ssl_sslv3=NO
    ssl_tlsv1=YES
    write_enable=YES
    local_root=/srv/www/htdocs/xeyedbear.org
    local_umask=022
--------------------
    
- restart vsftpd with this --> sudo /usr/sbin/rcvsftpd restart


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swerdna
8/11/2009 12:26:01 PM
The configuration you have described is similar to mine: a wired LAN
running behind a router which provides a firewall and NAT. Linux
machines are firewalled by OpenSuSE; Windows machines are firewalled by
a range of products. Web-server and Apache are on a Linux machine (in my
ignorance I beleive(d) that they have to be so and, further that Apache
IS the web-server....). All my graphics work, including use of DW, is on
a separate machine which I run mostly off-line because I'm paranoid -
it's Windows based.

On this basis I think it is safe to use a non-encrypted FTP product  -
but only on the LAN. I will take on board the encryption advice given by
Ken Yap in the previous post to yours. That's some knowledge that I must
develop for the future.

The bottom line is that you have confirmed that I need to setup an FTP
server and have given me some explicit guidance to do that. 

Many thanks. Makes me feel a lot better after the farce of
Headingley....."may the best side win" they say; huh, there was only 1
side - yours.


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XEyedBear
8/11/2009 1:48:02 PM
swerdna;2024640 Wrote: 
> 
> >   > 
  - ....
  > 
  - copy this file into a new file /etc/vsftpd.conf and make the
  > permissions
  > drw------- and owner to be root:root
  - restart vsftpd with this --> sudo /usr/sbin/rcvsftpd restart> > 

Sorry to appear dumb, but if vsftpd.conf is a file, how can I set
permissions to drw------- ? Surely that's for a directory only?


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XEyedBear
8/11/2009 5:46:02 PM
XEyedBear;2024795 Wrote: 
> Sorry to appear dumb, but if vsftpd.conf is a file, how can I set
> permissions to drw------- ? Surely that's for a directory only?
You're right -- typo of mine -- I should have said -rw------- (sudo
chmod 600)


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swerdna
8/11/2009 7:16:02 PM
XEyedBear;2024683 Wrote: 
> Headingley....."may the best side win" they say; huh, there was only 1
> side - yours.Just another reality check  -- life's full of them. One day your side
will ...............  maybe ...... perhaps not ;)


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swerdna
8/11/2009 7:16:02 PM
swerdna;2024818 Wrote: 
> You're right -- typo of mine -- I should have said -rw------- (sudo
> chmod 600)

No problem. I'm just replying to say thanks - this all worked well and
I have access to two embryonic web-sites now on my web-server, having
also sussed out the problem with ftp from DW. DW works fine with vsftp
in my installation and claims also to work with SFTP, but I haven't set
up SSH yet, so I cannot prove this. Based on previous advice though, I
will get around to trying that.


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XEyedBear
8/12/2009 9:46:02 PM
Reply: