Another Novell corker!

Sorry for this but (Begin rant)

Patch Management

Make your customers buy an add on product for an already bundled
product??!?!  Charge a small fortune for it when people will already be
paying for upgrades and have already paid for upgrade protection on the main
products $18 * 700 PC's = $12,600 a year?!?!?! Re sell a product from
another company rather than develop one in house and not try and hide
it??!?!?

Zenworks should have this functionality already (most other products do) and
it should be included as extra functionality within the product at no extra
cost (apart from upgrade price)

This smacks of the PXE situation an my firm are not happy with the way
Novell is playing this... I cannot understand the logic of this situation...
I see this making many people very unhappy
(End rant)

0
Dave
4/16/2004 10:55:01 AM
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Dave,

passed on to Product Management

-- 

Shaun Pond
Novell Support Connection SysOp

0
Shaun
4/16/2004 11:17:53 AM
If you want you can use the Application Launcher to push out the patches
that become available from Microsoft, Citrix, Novell, etc. You just have to
create the ZENworks Applications that will push out these patches.
PatchLink can do the packaging work for you so that they can be deployed
automatically, for this additional service you'll need to to subscribe to
the Patchlink updates. The thing that isn't included with ZENworks is the
annual subscription to the PatchLink updates.

ZENworks 6.5 will ship with the patch-management server, this is the server
that is needed to send out the patches in your environment (and the server
that will collect them from PatchLink). If you buy the product directly from
Patchlink you'll need to buy the server. ZENworks includes this server but
doesn't include the annual subscription (it has a trial subscription
included).

Ron



"Dave Lee" <dlee@removeformailbondpearce.com> wrote in message
news:9YOfc.812$K87.613@prv-forum2.provo.novell.com...
> Sorry for this but (Begin rant)
>
> Patch Management
>
> Make your customers buy an add on product for an already bundled
> product??!?!  Charge a small fortune for it when people will already be
> paying for upgrades and have already paid for upgrade protection on the
main
> products $18 * 700 PC's = $12,600 a year?!?!?! Re sell a product from
> another company rather than develop one in house and not try and hide
> it??!?!?
>
> Zenworks should have this functionality already (most other products do)
and
> it should be included as extra functionality within the product at no
extra
> cost (apart from upgrade price)
>
> This smacks of the PXE situation an my firm are not happy with the way
> Novell is playing this... I cannot understand the logic of this
situation...
> I see this making many people very unhappy
> (End rant)
>


0
Ron
4/16/2004 12:17:55 PM
To understand the value of patch manager and its cost, you need
to understand in more detail what patchlink do. They are not just
re-shipping MS patches. Instead they re-factor each patch from a
number of venders and put then though a large number of tests across
about 250 different system environments (using a VMWare type
environment). Also as an independent vender I would guess that they
have a closer relationship with Microsoft and other venders than Novell has.

My guess is that if the ZenWorks product managers find that they have
2M nodes licenced for patch manager in a year's time, they will be
in a much better position to request the required funds to create an
internal system to do this (or get patchlink to lower their price).

Roger


"Dave Lee" <dlee@removeformailbondpearce.com> wrote in message news:9YOfc.812$K87.613@prv-forum2.provo.novell.com...
> Sorry for this but (Begin rant)
>
> Patch Management
>
> Make your customers buy an add on product for an already bundled
> product??!?!  Charge a small fortune for it when people will already be
> paying for upgrades and have already paid for upgrade protection on the main
> products $18 * 700 PC's = $12,600 a year?!?!?! Re sell a product from
> another company rather than develop one in house and not try and hide
> it??!?!?
>
> Zenworks should have this functionality already (most other products do) and
> it should be included as extra functionality within the product at no extra
> cost (apart from upgrade price)
>
> This smacks of the PXE situation an my firm are not happy with the way
> Novell is playing this... I cannot understand the logic of this situation...
> I see this making many people very unhappy
> (End rant)
>


0
Roger
4/16/2004 5:02:43 PM
What gets me about this is that there are many products out there that do
this for free.  SUS and soon to be WUS does most of this for free. 
Patchlink REQUIRES a domain or Active directory.  SUS and WUS do NOT. 
Patchlink REQUIRES windows server to run.  Patchlink will push out a/v
updates.  Your A/v program can do that and probably already does that. 
Patchlink can auto update Adobe.   Adobe now auto updates itself.  MS Office
owns the Office app market.   WUS will be able to install all patches for MS
Office for free.  If you run ZFD, you can push all app patches and updates
etc automatically with little or no prep work.

At present time, i find it extremely difficult to justify paying 1 penny for
this product.

Shane McAree
Regional Manager of Information Technology
The Pas, Manitoba
PHONE - (204) 623 - 9216
FAX -       (204) 623 - 9263
smcaree@normanrha.mb.ca
---------------------------------------------------------------

0
Shane
4/21/2004 8:38:44 PM
some of the reports I have read mentioned that SUS/WUS  (one or the other, or both) might not be
free too much longer...
0
Matthew
4/21/2004 9:06:30 PM
Requires a domain or active directory??!?!?! You are kidding right?

>>> Shane McAree<smcaree@NORMANRHA.MB.CA> 4/21/2004 9:38:44 pm >>>
What gets me about this is that there are many products out there that do
this for free.  SUS and soon to be WUS does most of this for free. 
Patchlink REQUIRES a domain or Active directory.  SUS and WUS do NOT. 
Patchlink REQUIRES windows server to run.  Patchlink will push out a/v
updates.  Your A/v program can do that and probably already does that. 
Patchlink can auto update Adobe.   Adobe now auto updates itself.  MS
Office
owns the Office app market.   WUS will be able to install all patches for
MS
Office for free.  If you run ZFD, you can push all app patches and updates
etc automatically with little or no prep work.

At present time, i find it extremely difficult to justify paying 1 penny
for
this product.

Shane McAree
Regional Manager of Information Technology
The Pas, Manitoba
PHONE - (204) 623 - 9216
FAX -       (204) 623 - 9263
smcaree@normanrha.mb.ca 
---------------------------------------------------------------



0
Dave
4/22/2004 8:25:44 AM
Dave,

> Requires a domain or active directory??!?!?! You are kidding right?
>
I don't see anything that leads me to believe that - I'll be installing 
it in the next day or 2 to test...

-- 

Shaun Pond
Novell Support Connection SysOp

0
Shaun
4/22/2004 8:31:36 AM
I was in on the patch management webinar yesterday and they stated that. 
people asked it to reconfirm that and they again stated that very clearly.

a DOMAIN or Active Directory is REQUIRED.

Shane McAree
Regional Manager of Information Technology
The Pas, Manitoba
PHONE - (204) 623 - 9216
FAX -       (204) 623 - 9263
smcaree@normanrha.mb.ca
---------------------------------------------------------------

0
Shane
4/22/2004 2:58:49 PM
Shane,

I guess that the domain doesn't have to extend any further than that 
one server...

-- 

Shaun Pond
Novell Support Connection SysOp

0
Shaun
4/22/2004 3:09:27 PM
I was in on the webinar yesterday, but I didn't hear anything like that. 
  I was also in several sessions at Brainshare where Patchlink's Update 
Server were discussed and/or demo, and the message was always clear, 
'the server can reside in a domain, but it is NOT required.'  Currently 
it does have to be installed on a Windows 2000 Server or Windows 2003 
Server with IIS and ASP.NET

 From the Pathlink User Manual:

"REMOVE YOUR SERVER FROM THE DOMAIN: You probably don't have your 
machine in a corporate domain if it is out on the Internet! For safety�s 
sake you should have as few people being able to login to the server as 
possible - just use local accounts."

 From the Patchlink Deployment Manual:
"Do not under any circumstances attempt to install on a computer that 
has personal firewall products, web server security tools, domain policy 
restrictions or any version of Microsoft SQL Server product installed on 
it. You may lock down your configuration AFTER installation of the 
software, if so desired."

and
"Please install the product on a member server within your domain or 
Active Directory environment. ***The product also installs on any 
stand-alone workgroup server.***"

 From the installation information window titled Patchlink Update Server 
Requirements:
"[ ] Not in a domain or all of the default policy settings are currently 
effective"

_________
stan






Shane McAree wrote:

> I was in on the patch management webinar yesterday and they stated that. 
> people asked it to reconfirm that and they again stated that very clearly.
> 
> a DOMAIN or Active Directory is REQUIRED.
> 
> Shane McAree
> Regional Manager of Information Technology
> The Pas, Manitoba
> PHONE - (204) 623 - 9216
> FAX -       (204) 623 - 9263
> smcaree@normanrha.mb.ca
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> 
0
stan
4/22/2004 4:21:33 PM
It was in the Q & A period that they said the server had to be part of a
Domain or Active Directory.  It was asked in multiple ways and the answer
was always the same, YES.  Maybe the presenters didn't know the product!

"stan" <bishopse@jmu.edu> wrote in message
news:hiShc.1142$tT3.1097@prv-forum2.provo.novell.com...
> I was in on the webinar yesterday, but I didn't hear anything like that.
>   I was also in several sessions at Brainshare where Patchlink's Update
> Server were discussed and/or demo, and the message was always clear,
> 'the server can reside in a domain, but it is NOT required.'  Currently
> it does have to be installed on a Windows 2000 Server or Windows 2003
> Server with IIS and ASP.NET
>
>  From the Pathlink User Manual:
>
> "REMOVE YOUR SERVER FROM THE DOMAIN: You probably don't have your
> machine in a corporate domain if it is out on the Internet! For safety�s
> sake you should have as few people being able to login to the server as
> possible - just use local accounts."
>
>  From the Patchlink Deployment Manual:
> "Do not under any circumstances attempt to install on a computer that
> has personal firewall products, web server security tools, domain policy
> restrictions or any version of Microsoft SQL Server product installed on
> it. You may lock down your configuration AFTER installation of the
> software, if so desired."
>
> and
> "Please install the product on a member server within your domain or
> Active Directory environment. ***The product also installs on any
> stand-alone workgroup server.***"
>
>  From the installation information window titled Patchlink Update Server
> Requirements:
> "[ ] Not in a domain or all of the default policy settings are currently
> effective"
>
> _________
> stan
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Shane McAree wrote:
>
> > I was in on the patch management webinar yesterday and they stated that.
> > people asked it to reconfirm that and they again stated that very
clearly.
> >
> > a DOMAIN or Active Directory is REQUIRED.
> >
> > Shane McAree
> > Regional Manager of Information Technology
> > The Pas, Manitoba
> > PHONE - (204) 623 - 9216
> > FAX -       (204) 623 - 9263
> > smcaree@normanrha.mb.ca
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >


0
Jennifer
4/23/2004 10:21:01 PM
I had install it before ,it seem like it don't really need AD or domain to
work. The client will talk to server using http , so that if the user or
workstation are not in AD or domain will still able to receive the patch
and apply it into the workstation. The client service running using local
service account. The agent deployment need you to configure ipaddress into
the ini file or specific during installation.

Steven Foong
0
foongws
4/26/2004 8:05:30 AM
On Mon, 2004-04-26 at 08:05 +0000, foongws@zen.com.my wrote:
> I had install it before ,it seem like it don't really need AD or domain to
> work. The client will talk to server using http , so that if the user or
> workstation are not in AD or domain will still able to receive the patch
> and apply it into the workstation. The client service running using local
> service account. The agent deployment need you to configure ipaddress into
> the ini file or specific during installation.
> 
> Steven Foong

I'm not sure what the context of the discussion was when they said AD or
a domain is required, but that is absolutely not true.  I've had it
running for a while in a standalone environment.  If you want to use
their domain push agent to deploy the agents, THEN you need to be in a
domain, but there are other options for deploying the agents (like ZEN!)

Andy

0
Andrew
4/28/2004 1:28:17 PM
On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 21:43:40 GMT, Patrick Farrell wrote:

> Do the clients have to connect to this domain?  We have sql servers and 
> what not, but we have no domain that any clients log in to.  That's what 
> Novell is for.  I don't want to have to go purchase client CAL's for a 
> Windows server just for patches...  Might as well throw netware out at 
> that point.

I would second Andrew Hills statement here... and I would test it first
before I throw NetWare out...
-- 

Marcus
0
Marcus
7/13/2004 4:49:37 PM
Marcus Breiden wrote:

> On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 21:43:40 GMT, Patrick Farrell wrote:
> 
> 
>>Do the clients have to connect to this domain?  We have sql servers and 
>>what not, but we have no domain that any clients log in to.  That's what 
>>Novell is for.  I don't want to have to go purchase client CAL's for a 
>>Windows server just for patches...  Might as well throw netware out at 
>>that point.
> 
> 
> I would second Andrew Hills statement here... and I would test it first
> before I throw NetWare out...

No no no, I'm not by any means advocating throwing netware out, but my 
point is, when you go to management and say oh now I need a windows 2000 
server and CAL's for everyone, well then you might as well just run 
everything there :)

Reminds me of E-Policy Orchestrator for Mcafee corporate.
0
Patrick
7/13/2004 7:48:38 PM
On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 16:25:14 GMT, Patrick Farrell wrote:

>  Still not sure what you need Inactive 
> Directory for...

ms neither..
-- 

Marcus
0
Marcus
7/14/2004 6:42:08 PM
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