Groupwise 6 and Groupwise 6.5

About to add another location to a 6 server Groupwise 6 mail system. 

Currently all the servers are Groupwise 6, mostly running on SBS servers. 

The new server will be Netware SBS 6.5, which now comes with Groupwise 6.5 

Will there any inter operability problems if I add the new system as a GW 
6.5 post office ?

Stuart.

Yep, when upgrading versions you really need to the primary domain
first. I'd put in a GW6 system for now, and upgrade when you ar eready
to

Cheers Dave


-- 

Dave Parkes [NSCS]
Occasionally resident at http://support-forums.novell.com/

Yes, you must upgrade the primary domain to GW6.5 before you can add a
secondary domain that is 6.5.



On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 17:36:08 GMT, Stuartr@nospam.please (Stuart
Robinson) wrote:

>About to add another location to a 6 server Groupwise 6 mail system. 
>
>Currently all the servers are Groupwise 6, mostly running on SBS servers. 
>
>The new server will be Netware SBS 6.5, which now comes with Groupwise 6.5 
>
>Will there any inter operability problems if I add the new system as a GW 
>6.5 post office ?
>
>Stuart.

Tim
___________________
Tim Heywood (SYSOP)
NDS8
Scotland
(God's Country)
___________________

In theory, practice and theory are the same
In Practice, they are different

> Yes, you must upgrade the primary domain to GW6.5 before you can add a
> secondary domain that is 6.5.

Really ?

Is it a case of it does not work at all, or not recommended ?

Can a GW 6.5 primary talk OK to all the other existing GW 6.0 secondaries, 
or d they need upgrading too ?

If I have to upgrade the primary to 6.5, its a bit of a show stopper, the 
primary domain is 50 user, the new secondary is 5 user, so the cost of 
adding 5 new users to the system would involve a 50 user upgrade license 
to the primary. 

Do the Novell licenses allow the use of the previous version ?

i.e. SBS 6.5 has GW 6.5 licenses so can I set up a GW 6.0 system on this 
new server SBS 6.5 server, I know its possible since the GW licenses are 
only paper licenses, but is it Novell legal ?


Stuart.

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 21:29:27 GMT, Stuartr@nospam.please (Stuart
Robinson) wrote:

>> Yes, you must upgrade the primary domain to GW6.5 before you can add a
>> secondary domain that is 6.5.
>
>Really ?
Yes really.  It is a prerequisite to upgrade the Primary before
upgrading a secondary.

>
>Is it a case of it does not work at all, or not recommended ?
>
>Can a GW 6.5 primary talk OK to all the other existing GW 6.0 secondaries, 
>or d they need upgrading too ?

A 65 primary will talk to a 60 or 5.5 secondary or indeed PO
>
>If I have to upgrade the primary to 6.5, its a bit of a show stopper, the 
>primary domain is 50 user, the new secondary is 5 user, so the cost of 
>adding 5 new users to the system would involve a 50 user upgrade license 
>to the primary. 

Yes, that is correct
>
>Do the Novell licenses allow the use of the previous version ?

Yes
>
>i.e. SBS 6.5 has GW 6.5 licenses so can I set up a GW 6.0 system on this 
>new server SBS 6.5 server, I know its possible since the GW licenses are 
>only paper licenses, but is it Novell legal ?

Your licenses are for "GroupWise 6.5 and prior versions"

Therefore if you added the new site as 6.0 that would be OK.

However you are licensing mailboxes and not the domains, so if you
left the post offices as 6.0 and just upgraded the domains, then you
could make all of this work correctly without breaking any licensing
deals.  There is however one caveat, do not run GW6.5 and GW6.0 agents
on the one server... (ie a 6.5 MTA and a 6.0 POA)

Tim
___________________
Tim Heywood (SYSOP)
NDS8
Scotland
(God's Country)
___________________

In theory, practice and theory are the same
In Practice, they are different

Thanks for all your comments. 

> However you are licensing mailboxes and not the domains, so if you
> left the post offices as 6.0 and just upgraded the domains, then you
> could make all of this work correctly without breaking any licensing
> deals

Ah I see. So in reality I have two basic options;

1. The SBS 6.5 license allows me to use 6.0, so I just install 6.0 on the 
new server. 

2. I could use the GW 6.5 disks that come with SBS 6.5 to upgrade the 
primary domain to GW 6.5 (and the MTA & PO agents since the server with 
the primary also runs a PO), and that will happily talk to the other GW 
6.0 domains and POs.

Could I also use the GW 6.5 disks to upgrade the GWIA, which also runs on 
the primary server ?. There are no particular issues with the current 
GWIA, but are there any benefits in using the latest version ?

Stuart.

Hi,

Stuart Robinson wrote:
> 
> Ah I see. So in reality I have two basic options;
> 
> 1. The SBS 6.5 license allows me to use 6.0, so I just install 6.0 on the
> new server.

I actually don't think this is true. It only is for CLA/MLA type full
GW6.5 licenses. If, however, this SBS server would be an update from
SBS6.0 (which comes with GW6.0), you would be allowed to update only the
OS, but continue to run the previous GW version.
There's a strong pointer that using a previous version is not allowed:
Would the SBS6.5 you have be the only Netware media you have, there is
absolutely no legal way for you to get your hands on an unrestricted
GW6.0 media. 
 
> 2. I could use the GW 6.5 disks that come with SBS 6.5 to upgrade the
> primary domain to GW 6.5 (and the MTA & PO agents since the server with
> the primary also runs a PO), and that will happily talk to the other GW
> 6.0 domains and POs.

Technically correct. If this is allowed legally really can't be answered
here.
 
> Could I also use the GW 6.5 disks to upgrade the GWIA, which also runs on
> the primary server ?. 

As above. Technically yes. However, AFAIK a 6.5 GWIA can't do POP3 or
IMAP for users that are in a 6.0 PO. I may be wrong here though. As for
this being legal, I sort of doubt it. The final answer for that can only
come from Novell.

However, you actually *can* install the GW6.5 secondary into an
otherwise completely GW6.0 system. *However*, the database version of
that domain and PO will stay at 6.0, no matter what you do, and you
won't be able to use GW6.5 clients against that PO, but would be limited
to 6.0 clients.

I guess your safe bet would be to buy a minimum count of GW6.5 upgrades
for your GW6.0 system, and only update the primary domain with this. And
actually, you *can* run a GW6.5 domain and a GW6.0 PO on the same
server.

CU,
-- 
Massimo Rosen
Novell Support Connection Sysop
No emails please!
http://www.cfc-it.de

1 Yes,

2, No   You could upgrade the MTAs but not the POAs as then the
mailboxes would be 6.5, even if the clients are still only 6.0.

Yes the GWIA from 6.5 has many more features than the 6.0 version.
RBLs being not the least.
http://www.novell.com/documentation/gw65/index.html?page=/documentation/gw65/gw65_install/data/a8t9nzp.html



On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 08:10:42 GMT, Stuartr@nospam.please (Stuart
Robinson) wrote:

>Thanks for all your comments. 
>
>> However you are licensing mailboxes and not the domains, so if you
>> left the post offices as 6.0 and just upgraded the domains, then you
>> could make all of this work correctly without breaking any licensing
>> deals
>
>Ah I see. So in reality I have two basic options;
>
>1. The SBS 6.5 license allows me to use 6.0, so I just install 6.0 on the 
>new server. 
>
>2. I could use the GW 6.5 disks that come with SBS 6.5 to upgrade the 
>primary domain to GW 6.5 (and the MTA & PO agents since the server with 
>the primary also runs a PO), and that will happily talk to the other GW 
>6.0 domains and POs.
>
>Could I also use the GW 6.5 disks to upgrade the GWIA, which also runs on 
>the primary server ?. There are no particular issues with the current 
>GWIA, but are there any benefits in using the latest version ?
>
>Stuart.

Tim
___________________
Tim Heywood (SYSOP)
NDS8
Scotland
(God's Country)
___________________

In theory, practice and theory are the same
In Practice, they are different

> Yes the GWIA from 6.5 has many more features than the 6.0 version.
> RBLs being not the least.

I see, the RBL and your ability to define your own blocks could be useful. 

Can you just upgrade the GWIA to 6.5 on the primary ?

The current situation is that the GW6 primary is on the same server as the 
GWIA and one PO. 

Stuart.

> Would the SBS6.5 you have be the only Netware media you have, there is
> absolutely no legal way for you to get your hands on an unrestricted
> GW6.0 media. 

I take your point, but am I mistaken in recalling that the GW6 service 
pack comes with a complete set of all the files required to set up GW6 ?

Stuart.

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 09:25:57 GMT, Stuartr@nospam.please (Stuart
Robinson) wrote:

>> Yes the GWIA from 6.5 has many more features than the 6.0 version.
>> RBLs being not the least.
>
>I see, the RBL and your ability to define your own blocks could be useful. 
>
>Can you just upgrade the GWIA to 6.5 on the primary ?
>
>The current situation is that the GW6 primary is on the same server as the 
>GWIA and one PO. 
>
>Stuart.


That one PO would be your problem.  I would create a new secondary
(GW6), promote that to the primary, upgrade it to 6.5 and then you can
add the new site as you wish.  If you happen to use the GWIA on that
new domain...

Tim
___________________
Tim Heywood (SYSOP)
NDS8
Scotland
(God's Country)
___________________

In theory, practice and theory are the same
In Practice, they are different

All but a few crucial files.  You require the original media to
acquire those files.



On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 09:25:57 GMT, Stuartr@nospam.please (Stuart
Robinson) wrote:

>> Would the SBS6.5 you have be the only Netware media you have, there is
>> absolutely no legal way for you to get your hands on an unrestricted
>> GW6.0 media. 
>
>I take your point, but am I mistaken in recalling that the GW6 service 
>pack comes with a complete set of all the files required to set up GW6 ?
>
>Stuart.

Tim
___________________
Tim Heywood (SYSOP)
NDS8
Scotland
(God's Country)
___________________

In theory, practice and theory are the same
In Practice, they are different

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:50:36 GMT, Massimo Rosen
<mrosenno@spamcfc-it.de> wrote:

>I actually don't think this is true. It only is for CLA/MLA type full
>GW6.5 licenses. If, however, this SBS server would be an update from
>SBS6.0 (which comes with GW6.0), you would be allowed to update only the
>OS, but continue to run the previous GW version.
>There's a strong pointer that using a previous version is not allowed:
>Would the SBS6.5 you have be the only Netware media you have, there is
>absolutely no legal way for you to get your hands on an unrestricted
>GW6.0 media. 


Massimo, the big change with the ZfD4 and GW6 license (full product
not SBS) was the inclusion of the words "or Prior version"   Thus if
you used GW5.5 you could purchase additional licenses(for GW6) and
keep on  using gw5.5 with a legal license count.   As long as the
total mailboxes used are matched with licenses for that version or a
later version (and obviously a upgraded license would not count) then
that is OK.   I have a client who hit this problem, they are a CLA now
(because I got them one) but they used to be red box.  I had to sort
this for them and Novell UK showed me the text in the license.


Tim
___________________
Tim Heywood (SYSOP)
NDS8
Scotland
(God's Country)
___________________

In theory, practice and theory are the same
In Practice, they are different

Stuart,

Stuart Robinson wrote:
> 
> > Would the SBS6.5 you have be the only Netware media you have, there is
> > absolutely no legal way for you to get your hands on an unrestricted
> > GW6.0 media.
> 
> I take your point, but am I mistaken in recalling that the GW6 service
> pack comes with a complete set of all the files required to set up GW6 ?

What Tim said. The service packs are *not* complete. That's why the
first thing they do when you start the setup.exe in their root, is to
ask for the original CD.

CU,
--
Massimo Rosen
Novell Product Support Forum Sysop
No emails please!
http://www.cfc-it.de

Tim,

"Tim Heywood (NSC SYSOP)" wrote:
> 
> Massimo, the big change with the ZfD4 and GW6 license (full product
> not SBS) was the inclusion of the words "or Prior version"  

Look again. This is exclusively true for XLA licenses. Not for SBS.

> Thus if
> you used GW5.5 you could purchase additional licenses(for GW6) and
> keep on  using gw5.5 with a legal license count.   

True. But that's not the point here. You're not allowed to use *any*
part of SBS outside of that SBS server. 

CU,
--
Massimo Rosen
Novell Product Support Forum Sysop
No emails please!
http://www.cfc-it.de

Ah IC, tvm.

Stuart.

So it would appear that the cheapest option, short term wise,  would be to 
buy a boxed copy of GW6.5 and that would allow me to install GW6.0 on the 
new SBS server (the company do have legit media for GW6.0).

That course of action would avoid complications and expense of upgrading 
the GW6.0 50 user primary. 

Stuart.

Correct.



On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 09:27:17 GMT, Stuartr@nospam.please (Stuart
Robinson) wrote:

>So it would appear that the cheapest option, short term wise,  would be to 
>buy a boxed copy of GW6.5 and that would allow me to install GW6.0 on the 
>new SBS server (the company do have legit media for GW6.0).
>
>That course of action would avoid complications and expense of upgrading 
>the GW6.0 50 user primary. 
>
>Stuart.

Tim
___________________
Tim Heywood (SYSOP)
NDS8
Scotland
(God's Country)
___________________

In theory, practice and theory are the same
In Practice, they are different

Thanks for your help.

Stuart.