Reply to e-mail under Local Folders uses default account. Can this be changed?

For e-mails in folders under the Local Folders account, replies default
to using the default e-mail account in Thunderbird, not the account
through which the e-mail got received.  I'd like to reply through the
same account through which an e-mail was received.  Is this not possible
in Thunderbird?
0
VanguardLH
6/27/2014 1:01:01 AM
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On 6/27/2014 12:19 PM, Good Guy wrote:

>
> How do emails get into local folders in the first place?  If you have
> created the accounts correctly (IMAP I assume) then all downloaded
> messages should go to the respective folders of that account.
>
>
Look under the mail account name, > Account Settings > Copies & Folders. 
  From there you select where you want your message types stored.

-- 
M Gordon Photography

http://3-michael-gordon.artistwebsites.com/
0
Michael
6/27/2014 1:01:01 AM
On 6/27/2014 1:11 PM, Good Guy wrote:
> On 27/06/2014 20:50, Michael G wrote:
>> On 6/27/2014 12:19 PM, Good Guy wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> How do emails get into local folders in the first place?  If you have
>>> created the accounts correctly (IMAP I assume) then all downloaded
>>> messages should go to the respective folders of that account.
>>>
>>>
>> Look under the mail account name, > Account Settings > Copies & Folders.
>>   From there you select where you want your message types stored.
>>
>
> So is that how the OP managed to put his emails in local folders?  I
> wonder why would anybody be so daft to do that when it is more
> convenient to have individual folders for each account.  Mind boggles.
>
>

Good Guy,

We have no idea how, or why the OP has his mail set-up in the way he 
describes.  Perhaps it's a hold-out from an older version, or different 
mail client.  Many years ago, Netscape Communicator, or Mozilla Suite, 
had an upgrade came down and after install the mail accounts were all 
flipped to send messages into the Default Folder and in their respective 
mail message types (Sent, Drafts, Trash, etc.).

As far as I can remember, back to Netscape Communicator 4.01, the mail 
accounts preferences allowed the use of Default Folder.

Michael G

-- 
M Gordon Photography

http://3-michael-gordon.artistwebsites.com/
0
Michael
6/27/2014 1:01:01 AM
VanguardLH wrote:
> For e-mails in folders under the Local Folders account, replies default
> to using the default e-mail account in Thunderbird, not the account
> through which the e-mail got received.

Moz kb article on Local Folders:

http://kb.mozillazine.org/Local_Folders  If you configure a POP account 
to use a Global Inbox, the new messages are downloaded into a Inbox 
folder in Local Folders. ... This page was last modified 17:58, 23 
December 2012.

Moz kb on Global Inbox:

http://kb.mozillazine.org/Global_Inbox  Thunderbird has a optional 
Global Inbox feature that stores mail from multiple POP accounts in a 
single Inbox in Local Folders. You can have all, some or none of your 
POP accounts use the Global Inbox. ... Accounts that use the Global 
Inbox will not have their own folders displayed in the folders pane; 
instead, all you will see is the single set of folders in Local Folders.
  -- See Virtual Folder and Unified Folders for some alternatives. They 
will work with both POP and IMAP accounts. ... This page was last 
modified 06:47, 6 March 2012.


I have no idea how much of the 2012 info in the moz kb articles pertains 
to the present Tb.


-- 
Mike Easter
0
Mike
6/27/2014 1:01:01 AM
On 2014-06-27 17:42, Good Guy <hello.world@example.com> wrote:
>
> Your IMAP messages, don't they go into individual folders under that 
> account?  I have 3 IMAP accouts and all messages go into folders 
> depending on how they are filtered but they are still under indivual 
> accounts.  Local folders don't use inbox at all. see this picture:
>
Not everyone uses imap - I have several mail accounts, all use POP.

> I doubt if messages can enter local folders by creating filters unless 
> you drag them their.
>
Why would you be unable to move messages to local folders using filters? 
I have tons of filters on several accounts and they all move mail to 
local folders. All publicity crap from all my accounts goes into the 
Publicity folder. Activism emails go to the so named folder. Family 
mails go to the so named folder, etc. This way when Family is blue, I 
know I've received email from my family, no matter which account in came 
in from. In fact, I have absolutely NO folders under each account 
besides default folders like Inbox, Sent, etc. Not everyone works the 
same. I keep mails on the servers for 90 days, just in case (too bad 
Thunderbird is not brilliant enough to delete moved mails after 90 days, 
it only works for Inbox, so I have to do some manual clean-up now and 
again).

Best Regards,

-- 
   _\|/_    Sylvain / B00ze64@hotmail.com
   (o o)    Member-David-Suzuki-Foundation-+-Planetary-Society-
oO-( )-Oo  Gravity is a myth <> The earth sucks.

0
B00ze
6/27/2014 1:01:01 AM
On 06/27/2014 02:22 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
> For e-mails in folders under the Local Folders account, replies default
> to using the default e-mail account in Thunderbird, not the account
> through which the e-mail got received.  I'd like to reply through the
> same account through which an e-mail was received.  Is this not possible
> in Thunderbird?
>


I create my folders under the Email Account, so I have no idea, but 
maybe these will help.

"Local Folders is a special account. There are no identities associated 
with it."

Menu location: Edit | Account Settings | Local Folders

<https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/configuration-options-folders>

<http://kb.mozillazine.org/Local_Folders>

-- 
Sponsored by Thunderbird 24.6.0 or 31.0b1
EQT Three Rivers Regatta - July 2-4, 2014
<http://www.threeriversregatta.net/>
GO Bucs! GO USA!
0
WaltS48
6/27/2014 7:00:48 PM
On 27/06/2014 19:22, VanguardLH wrote:
> For e-mails in folders under the Local Folders account, replies default
> to using the default e-mail account in Thunderbird, not the account
> through which the e-mail got received.  I'd like to reply through the
> same account through which an e-mail was received.  Is this not possible
> in Thunderbird?
>


How do emails get into local folders in the first place?  If you have 
created the accounts correctly (IMAP I assume) then all downloaded 
messages should go to the respective folders of that account.  I don't 
even have an inbox in local folders because all my accounts have their 
own folders.  If you are using pop then ignore this post because I have 
always used IMAP as I like to have backup in the cloud, not on my machine.

Now if the emails are in respective folders then reply will always show 
that particular account by default but this can be changed on the fly. 
their is drop-down list saying FROM:     this is the first line when you 
open the email to reply.


0
Good
6/27/2014 7:19:38 PM
On 27/06/2014 20:50, Michael G wrote:
> On 6/27/2014 12:19 PM, Good Guy wrote:
>
>>
>> How do emails get into local folders in the first place?  If you have
>> created the accounts correctly (IMAP I assume) then all downloaded
>> messages should go to the respective folders of that account.
>>
>>
> Look under the mail account name, > Account Settings > Copies & Folders.
>   From there you select where you want your message types stored.
>

So is that how the OP managed to put his emails in local folders?  I 
wonder why would anybody be so daft to do that when it is more 
convenient to have individual folders for each account.  Mind boggles.


0
Good
6/27/2014 8:11:35 PM
On 27/06/2014 20:50, Michael G wrote:
> On 6/27/2014 12:19 PM, Good Guy wrote:
>
>>
>> How do emails get into local folders in the first place?  If you have
>> created the accounts correctly (IMAP I assume) then all downloaded
>> messages should go to the respective folders of that account.
>>
>>
> Look under the mail account name, > Account Settings > Copies & Folders.
>   From there you select where you want your message types stored.
>


Does it cover incoming messages as well?  It only says about Sent 
folder.  It does't say about incoming messages.  Perhaps the OP is using 
pop settings then all messages would go into inbox in local folders.


0
Good
6/27/2014 8:17:46 PM
On 6/27/2014 1:17 PM, Good Guy wrote:
> On 27/06/2014 20:50, Michael G wrote:
>> On 6/27/2014 12:19 PM, Good Guy wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> How do emails get into local folders in the first place?  If you have
>>> created the accounts correctly (IMAP I assume) then all downloaded
>>> messages should go to the respective folders of that account.
>>>
>>>
>> Look under the mail account name, > Account Settings > Copies & Folders.
>>   From there you select where you want your message types stored.
>>
> 
> 
> Does it cover incoming messages as well?  It only says about Sent 
> folder.  It does't say about incoming messages.  Perhaps the OP is using 
> pop settings then all messages would go into inbox in local folders.
> 
> 

I only use POP/SMTP.  I have two E-mail accounts, distinguished
according to my E-mail addresses and the mail servers involved.  All my
incoming messages go to Inbox in their respective accounts (except for
certain filtering, which still uses folders in that account).  All my
outgoing messages go to Sent in their respective accounts (again except
for certain filtering, which still uses folders in that account).  My
Local Folders account does have Inbox and Sent, both of which are empty.

-- 

David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

On occasion, I filter and ignore all newsgroup messages
posted through GoogleGroups via Google's G2/1.0 user agent
because of spam, flames, and trolling from that source.
0
David
6/27/2014 9:07:40 PM
> 
> How do emails get into local folders in the first place?  If you have 
> created the accounts correctly (IMAP I assume) then all downloaded 
> messages should go to the respective folders of that account.  I don't 
> even have an inbox in local folders because all my accounts have their 
> own folders.  If you are using pop then ignore this post because I have 
> always used IMAP as I like to have backup in the cloud, not on my machine.
> 
You put them there, using Message Filters. And I'll tell you why I do it.

In my case, I travel with my laptop. It cannot connect to the server at
my workplace when away. If I am offered an internet connection, (and
this is not always the case), I could use OWA to access the workplace MS
Exchange server, but it hurts.

By saving messages (via IMAP) in Local Folders, I have a local copy of
all relevant past correspondence.

Yes, in Thunderbird, it can be set to make temporary local copies under
the IMAP account folders. But I can never tell for sure which messages
are locally cached. A visit to a  customer's premises is the wrong place
and time to discover that a particular message or folder hasn't been
synched.

-- 

Chris.

0
Chris
6/27/2014 9:29:26 PM
On 27/06/2014 22:29, Chris Ramsden wrote:
>
>>

>
> By saving messages (via IMAP) in Local Folders, I have a local copy of
> all relevant past correspondence.
>

Your IMAP messages, don't they go into individual folders under that 
account?  I have 3 IMAP accouts and all messages go into folders 
depending on how they are filtered but they are still under indivual 
accounts.  Local folders don't use inbox at all.  see this picture:

<http://content.screencast.com/users/JT19560819/folders/Jing/media/a72c1f98-370a-4e6d-bc40-b3295d8cff4d/2014-06-27_2236.png>

No sign of inbox anywhere.

Above the local folders I have indiviaul accounts with their own folders 
and they all have the emails available to me anytime even without having 
internet connection.


I doubt if messages can enter local folders by creating filters unless 
you drag them their.

Anyway, I haven't had any situation where messages enter "local 
folders".  That is why I said mind boggles.  Can't wait for saturday to 
come soon for football to resume.  This will cure the headache of 
working out how and why thing in Thunderbird.


0
Good
6/27/2014 9:42:04 PM
On 27/06/2014 22:07, David E. Ross wrote:

>
> I only use POP/SMTP.  I have two E-mail accounts, distinguished
> according to my E-mail addresses and the mail servers involved.  All my
> incoming messages go to Inbox in their respective accounts

I thought so as well.  so this begs a question, how do messages end up 
in "Local Folders".  It could be that we are misreading the original 
post.  Local folders here means local machine and the situation is like 
you describe above, Iindivdual accounts with their own folders but at 
the local machine level.

Anyway, I have finished with this.  Watching Newsnight about Europe 
having a new president which our Prime minister (UK) didn't like.



0
Good
6/27/2014 9:47:24 PM
On 2014-06-27 16:11, Good Guy <hello.world@example.com> wrote:
> On 27/06/2014 20:50, Michael G wrote:
>> On 6/27/2014 12:19 PM, Good Guy wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> How do emails get into local folders in the first place?  If you have
>>> created the accounts correctly (IMAP I assume) then all downloaded
>>> messages should go to the respective folders of that account.
>>>
>>>
>> Look under the mail account name, > Account Settings > Copies & Folders.
>>   From there you select where you want your message types stored.
>>
>
> So is that how the OP managed to put his emails in local folders? I 
> wonder why would anybody be so daft to do that when it is more 
> convenient to have individual folders for each account.  Mind boggles.
>
>
How can it be daft to move all emails from your family for example, from 
ALL your accounts, under a single "Family" folder under Local Folders? 
The mind boggles indeed, but not at what you think. This is the way I 
classify my mail too, works fine, makes sense, but it does use the 
default account (at least you can change it when replying)...

-- 
   _\|/_    Sylvain / B00ze64@hotmail.com
   (o o)    Member-David-Suzuki-Foundation-+-Planetary-Society-
oO-( )-Oo  Being one man too many, Ensign Extra is booted off the E.

0
B00ze
6/27/2014 11:46:11 PM
Mike Easter wrote:

> VanguardLH wrote:
>> For e-mails in folders under the Local Folders account, replies default
>> to using the default e-mail account in Thunderbird, not the account
>> through which the e-mail got received.
> 
> Moz kb article on Local Folders:
> 
> http://kb.mozillazine.org/Local_Folders  If you configure a POP account 
> to use a Global Inbox, the new messages are downloaded into a Inbox 
> folder in Local Folders. ... This page was last modified 17:58, 23 
> December 2012.
> 
> Moz kb on Global Inbox:
> 
> http://kb.mozillazine.org/Global_Inbox  Thunderbird has a optional 
> Global Inbox feature that stores mail from multiple POP accounts in a 
> single Inbox in Local Folders. You can have all, some or none of your 
> POP accounts use the Global Inbox. ... Accounts that use the Global 
> Inbox will not have their own folders displayed in the folders pane; 
> instead, all you will see is the single set of folders in Local Folders.
>   -- See Virtual Folder and Unified Folders for some alternatives. They 
> will work with both POP and IMAP accounts. ... This page was last 
> modified 06:47, 6 March 2012.
> 
> I have no idea how much of the 2012 info in the moz kb articles pertains 
> to the present Tb.

I'm using IMAP instead of POP.  While IMAP has some advantages (which
are critical for managing some of those accounts), it is definitely
slower a lot which depends on responsiveness of the IMAP server but, so
far, they've proven slower than POP.  Between the IMAP servers and
Thunderbird, the overall effect is IMAP is slow.  I'm also using the
Unified Folder view in Thunderbird which utilizes the saved search
folder function in Thunderbird but that adds even more delay.  I might
have to give up Unified Folders.

When I am addressing or have addressed an e-mail but want to keep it
around for awhile, I don't need it online in a folder under an IMAP
account but instead drag it into a subfolder in a hierarchical tree
under the Local Folders account.  So I'm managing the e-mails under
Local Folders.  The problem is that once I drag the e-mails there that
Thunderbird seems to forget through which account the e-mail was
originally received.  I can add the Account column but it just shows
Local Folders.  As a result, when I reply, Thunderbird has forgotten the
receiving account and instead uses the default e-mail account (which is
often but not always the wrong one).  

No matter where the e-mail resides, whether within a folder under an
e-mail account or under Local Folders, I want replies to an e-mail to
automatically default to the same the account through which that e-mail
was received.  So far, this doesn't look possible in Thunderbird.  I
don't want to manually change the From selection or manually select
different identities because, gee, that's what the software should do,
plus it means manual intervention which can be forgotten with the result
that I divulge some other e-mail account to a recipient that they should
never even know about.

Once an e-mail is moved under Local Folders, it appears you are stuck
using with replies using whatever is the default e-mail account
regardless through which account the e-mail was received.  A bit
amatuerish is responding using an account different than the sender
originally used to e-mail you and a bit amateurish is a client that
doesn't track the account regardless of wherever the e-mail gets moved.
Grrrrrr.

Guess I'll have to leave the e-mails in a subfolder under the account
under which they were received.  That means slowdown in managing e-mails
under subfolders due to the slowdown inherent with IMAP: copy TB's copy
of the message to TB's folder, send up a copy of the message to the same
folder up on the IMAP server, issue a purge in the original IMAP folder,
then delete TB's local copy, and wait for all the sync'ing ... and if
using Unified Folders then wait for it to get in sync with its own local
copies under that account in the saved search folder.
0
VanguardLH
6/28/2014 12:41:08 AM
WaltS48 wrote:

> On 06/27/2014 02:22 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
>> For e-mails in folders under the Local Folders account, replies default
>> to using the default e-mail account in Thunderbird, not the account
>> through which the e-mail got received.  I'd like to reply through the
>> same account through which an e-mail was received.  Is this not possible
>> in Thunderbird?
>>
> 
> I create my folders under the Email Account, so I have no idea, but 
> maybe these will help.
> 
> "Local Folders is a special account. There are no identities associated 
> with it."

See my reply to Easter.  I'm using IMAP in which I've experienced has
also been slower than POP but I need to locally manage the other
folders.  For items that I'm moving under the Local Folders store, those
don't have to be online (and some I don't want online) and managing them
locally is far quicker than issuing IMAP commands to replicate moves,
replies, and deletes done locally.

Anything manual, like me manually selecting an account in the From field
or manually changing to another identify, is a solution.  I already have
to check the From field in a reply after reviewing the message source so
the two match on the account through which the e-mail was received.
Identities wouldn't be any easier even if available.  The best scheme
would be for TB to add a record to its message store that tracks through
which account an e-mail was received and use that as the default when
replying ... no matter to where an e-mail got moved inside of TB,
especially if moved to under the Local Folders store.  An acceptable
solution would be to configure a folder (under Local Store) to specify
what default account to use there when replying to e-mails stored under
it.

> Menu location: Edit | Account Settings | Local Folders

No option there to "Reply using same account an e-mail was received".

> <https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/configuration-options-folders>

No description of how to configure TB to reply using the account through
which an e-mail was received.  No option to specify a default account on
a per-folder basis.

> <http://kb.mozillazine.org/Local_Folders>

It appears any use of the Local Folders store disassociates an e-mail
moved to there from the other account.  So I cannot use Local Folders as
a local archive that remains in active use for issuing replies (and
without me having to manually change the From selection in a reply).
I'll have to keep my archives under the IMAP account so replies to those
archived e-mails will reuse that same account.
0
VanguardLH
6/28/2014 12:59:00 AM
On 6/27/2014 4:55 PM, B00ze wrote:
> On 2014-06-27 17:42, Good Guy <hello.world@example.com> wrote:
>>
>> Your IMAP messages, don't they go into individual folders under that 
>> account?  I have 3 IMAP accouts and all messages go into folders 
>> depending on how they are filtered but they are still under indivual 
>> accounts.  Local folders don't use inbox at all. see this picture:
>>
> Not everyone uses imap - I have several mail accounts, all use POP.
> 
>> I doubt if messages can enter local folders by creating filters unless 
>> you drag them their.
>>
> Why would you be unable to move messages to local folders using filters? 
> I have tons of filters on several accounts and they all move mail to 
> local folders. All publicity crap from all my accounts goes into the 
> Publicity folder. Activism emails go to the so named folder. Family 
> mails go to the so named folder, etc. This way when Family is blue, I 
> know I've received email from my family, no matter which account in came 
> in from. In fact, I have absolutely NO folders under each account 
> besides default folders like Inbox, Sent, etc. Not everyone works the 
> same. I keep mails on the servers for 90 days, just in case (too bad 
> Thunderbird is not brilliant enough to delete moved mails after 90 days, 
> it only works for Inbox, so I have to do some manual clean-up now and 
> again).
> 
> Best Regards,
> 

Yes, you can use filters to move messages from the account where they
were received into folders in other accounts.  Local Folders is such an
account.

-- 

David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

On occasion, I filter and ignore all newsgroup messages
posted through GoogleGroups via Google's G2/1.0 user agent
because of spam, flames, and trolling from that source.
0
David
6/28/2014 1:01:01 AM
*-* On Fri, 27 Jun 2014, at 22:47:24 +0100,
*-* In Article <PdadnTc1zc7tezDOnZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@mozilla.org>,
*-* Good Guy wrote
*-* About Re: Reply to e-mail under Local Folders uses default
account.  Can this be changed?

> On 27/06/2014 22:07, David E. Ross wrote:

>> I only use POP/SMTP.  I have two E-mail accounts, distinguished
>> according to my E-mail addresses and the mail servers involved.
>> All my incoming messages go to Inbox in their respective accounts

> I thought so as well.  so this begs a question, how do messages end
> up in "Local Folders".

     For POP accounts TB can be configured to put them there instead
of in individual account folders.

Tools --> Account Settings --> [Account name] --> Server Settings

Under "Message Storage" click on the "Advanced" button, which will
open an "Advanced Account Settings" dialog.  See my screen shot at

<http://oi58.tinypic.com/2dj9qns.jpg>.  Although that dialog says

"Inbox", selecting the "Local Folders" option consolidates folders for
all accounts so configured into a single "Local Folders"
pseudo-account in the Folder Pane.  I have two POP accounts, and I use
"Local Folders" rather than individual account folders.  See my screen
shot at

<http://oi60.tinypic.com/2vd20r5.jpg>.

                                        Ken Whiton
-- 
    FIDO: 1:132/152
InterNet: kenwhiton@surfglobal.net.INVAL (remove the obvious to reply)
0
Ken
6/28/2014 9:32:11 AM
On 2014-06-27 2:22 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
> For e-mails in folders under the Local Folders account, replies default
> to using the default e-mail account in Thunderbird, not the account
> through which the e-mail got received.  I'd like to reply through the
> same account through which an e-mail was received.  Is this not possible
> in Thunderbird?

Local folders is functioning as designed. You can change this by making 
each account autonomous. Go to the Settings dialogs, and change all the 
target folder for each account to the ones for that account.

Eg, --> Copies and Folders --> "When sending messages, automatically" 
--> Place a copy in: --> Sent Folder on : --> [Account Name]

HTH

-- 
Best,
Wolf K.
kirkwood40.blogspot.ca
0
Wolf
6/30/2014 1:12:46 PM
On 2014-06-27 14:22, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
> For e-mails in folders under the Local Folders account, replies default
> to using the default e-mail account in Thunderbird, not the account
> through which the e-mail got received.  I'd like to reply through the
> same account through which an e-mail was received.  Is this not possible
> in Thunderbird?

Hey Vanguard, I just discovered the "Correct Identity 1.4.3" AddOn; 
there is a checkmark in its settings that makes replies from local 
folders use the same address for "from" as the one that the email was 
sent to! Woohoo :-)

Regards,

-- 
    _\|/_    Sylvain / B00ze64@hotmail.com
    (o o)    Member-+-David-Suzuki-Foundation-+-Planetary-Society-
  oO-( )-Oo  Captain ... YOUR HEAD! You're growing HAIR!!!

0
B00ze
7/29/2014 11:44:25 PM
Wolf K. wrote:

> On 2014-06-27 2:22 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
>> For e-mails in folders under the Local Folders account, replies default
>> to using the default e-mail account in Thunderbird, not the account
>> through which the e-mail got received.  I'd like to reply through the
>> same account through which an e-mail was received.  Is this not possible
>> in Thunderbird?
> 
> Local folders is functioning as designed. You can change this by making 
> each account autonomous. Go to the Settings dialogs, and change all the 
> target folder for each account to the ones for that account.
> 
> Eg, --> Copies and Folders --> "When sending messages, automatically" 
> --> Place a copy in: --> Sent Folder on : --> [Account Name]
> 
> HTH

This is over a month old so I'm going by memory as to why I posted this
topic.  My recollection is that the default account was used in a reply
when replying to an e-mail that I had *moved* from an account's Inbox
folder to a folder under the Local Folders group.

Sorry, I was incomplete in my description.  I do have separate folders
for each account.  I use IMAP for each account, each account shows as a
separate group in the account's pane, and each account is configured in
Tbird to deliver new messages to the account's Inbox folder (not to
anywhere under Local Folders).  To be honest, I don't see a config
option in an account definition in Tbird that lets me specify to where
new messages are delivered.  For IMAP accounts, I don't see an option to
have new e-mails delivered to the Local Folders -> Inbox folder (which,
by the way, doesn't exist).  You can decide on a destination folder for
Sent, Archives, Drafts, and Templates but not for Inbox or Trash.  

Perhaps POP accounts have a different set of destination folder options,
like delivering new messages to Local Folders -> Inbox instead of to
<account> -> Inbox.  For IMAP, the only way that I know how to do the
same would be to define a rule to move all messages received in
<account> to Local Folders -> Inbox.  I have no rules (filters) define
in Thunderbird.

The messages that are under Local folders are those that I choose to
drag there to take them offline from the account.  They are messages
that I do not want to reside up on the server in my accounts but exist
only locally under Local Folders.  They went into the account's Inbox
but I moved them out to a folder under Local Folders.

Once I move a message from an account folder to a Local Folders account,
the account information appears lost.  I add the Account column to see
through which account an e-mail got received but all it shows is "Local
Folders".  Say I received a message through a Hotmail account.  It goes
into the account's server-side Inbox folder.  Tbird syncs to my Hotmail
account and retrieves the message to have a local copy of the message.
Because the message is in the Inbox of my "Hotmail" account group in the
tree list or because I add the Account column, I can see the account for
the message is my Hotmail account.  I then drag that message to an
Archive folder (or any folder name you want).  After the drag completes,
the message disappears from the Hotmail Inbox folder Tbird and appears
in the Archive folder under Local Folders.  The Account column in the
view of the Local Folders -> Archive folder shows "Local Folders", not
Hotmail.  If I reply to that moved instance of the message, Tbird uses
the default account instead of the account through which the message was
received.  

To repeat, I do have separate account groups, Tbird is configured to
store retrieved messages into the Inbox folder of each account (not to
Local Folders), and the messages only get under Local Folders because I
dragged them there.  When I reply to a message that was moved to under
Local Folders, the account through which that message received is not
used but instead the default account in Tbird gets used.

So it appears an e-mail moved out of an account and to under the Local
Folders has the account info stripped from it.
0
VanguardLH
7/30/2014 12:20:14 AM
B00ze wrote:

> On 2014-06-27 14:22, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>> For e-mails in folders under the Local Folders account, replies default
>> to using the default e-mail account in Thunderbird, not the account
>> through which the e-mail got received.  I'd like to reply through the
>> same account through which an e-mail was received.  Is this not possible
>> in Thunderbird?
> 
> Hey Vanguard, I just discovered the "Correct Identity 1.4.3" AddOn; 
> there is a checkmark in its settings that makes replies from local 
> folders use the same address for "from" as the one that the email was 
> sent to! Woohoo :-)
> 
> Regards,

Per my reply to Wolf (to add clarification), do you now if a message you
dragged out of an account's Inbox folder to a Local Folders folder will
still use the original account through which that message was received
when replying to that message?

- You have 2, or more accounts defined in Tbird.
- Account1 is the default account.  Account2 is not the default account.
- Message arrives in Account2's Inbox on the server.
- Tbird retrieves a copy of that message.
- The new message is put under the Account2 -> Inbox folder.
- Create a Temp folder under Local Folders.
- Drag the message from Account2 -> Inbox to Local Folders -> Temp.
- Reply to the message that is now under Local Folders -> Temp.

Which account is used for your reply?  Is it:
- Account2 through which the message was originally received?
- Account1 which is the default account in Tbird?

I don't have that add-on.  What I see is my reply goes through Account1
(the default account) instead of Account2 (through which the message was
received).
0
VanguardLH
7/30/2014 1:01:01 AM
On 2014-07-29 20:27, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
> B00ze wrote:
>> On 2014-06-27 14:22, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>>> For e-mails in folders under the Local Folders account, replies default
>>> to using the default e-mail account in Thunderbird, not the account
>>> through which the e-mail got received.  I'd like to reply through the
>>> same account through which an e-mail was received.  Is this not possible
>>> in Thunderbird?
>> Hey Vanguard, I just discovered the "Correct Identity 1.4.3" AddOn;
>> there is a checkmark in its settings that makes replies from local
>> folders use the same address for "from" as the one that the email was
>> sent to! Woohoo :-)
>>
>> Regards,
> Per my reply to Wolf (to add clarification), do you now if a message you
> dragged out of an account's Inbox folder to a Local Folders folder will
> still use the original account through which that message was received
> when replying to that message?

With the "Correct Identity" AddOn, yes it will! e.g., move mails from 
all your accounts in the same folder under Local Accounts. From that 
local folder, reply to a mail received by account 1 -> From=Account1, 
reply to a mail received by account 2 -> From=Account2, etc :-)

> - You have 2, or more accounts defined in Tbird.
> - Account1 is the default account.  Account2 is not the default account.
> - Message arrives in Account2's Inbox on the server.
> - Tbird retrieves a copy of that message.
> - The new message is put under the Account2 -> Inbox folder.
> - Create a Temp folder under Local Folders.
> - Drag the message from Account2 -> Inbox to Local Folders -> Temp.
> - Reply to the message that is now under Local Folders -> Temp.
>
> Which account is used for your reply?  Is it:
> - Account2 through which the message was originally received?
> - Account1 which is the default account in Tbird?

With the AddOn, it will be Account2 that is used, since the TO field of 
the message you are replying to is set to Account2's email address...

> I don't have that add-on.  What I see is my reply goes through Account1
> (the default account) instead of Account2 (through which the message was
> received).

Try the AddOn! For me it is wonderful, since I store ALL my emails from 
ALL my accounts under Local Account. Finally, my replies go out from the 
account/identity that received the message I am replying to :-)

Best Regards,

-- 
    _\|/_    Sylvain / B00ze64@hotmail.com
    (o o)    Member-+-David-Suzuki-Foundation-+-Planetary-Society-
  oO-( )-Oo  Vogon poetry is of course the third worst in the universe.

0
B00ze
7/30/2014 1:01:01 AM
On 30 Jul 2014 02:49, "VanguardLH" <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
>
> To repeat, I do have separate account groups, Tbird is configured to
> store retrieved messages into the Inbox folder of each account (not to
> Local Folders), and the messages only get under Local Folders because I
> dragged them there.  When I reply to a message that was moved to under
> Local Folders, the account through which that message received is not
> used but instead the default account in Tbird gets used.
>
> So it appears an e-mail moved out of an account and to under the Local
> Folders has the account info stripped from it.
>

Your expectation of the function of the Account and Location columns seems
to me to be somewhat perverse.  It is surely just a simple declaration of
where the message is stored, and is not intended to be an indication of the
means by which it got there.

No data is removed.  The true provenance can be inferred from the headers
and this is what the various add-ons attempt to do.  The mystery is why
Thunderbird doesn't do this for itself.  Of course, when I respond to a
message presented to me in Local Folders,  Global Inbox or a Saved Search,
I'd expect TB to respect the information in the headers about sender and
recipient addresses and use them to formulate the reply. It's stupid IMHO
for it to use the message's location to decide the From: address.

Of course IMAP folders can't be merged together. (Well, they could be, from
a purely technical POV, but would this be useful?) They are views of remote
folders on various servers and so are intrinsically distinct and unique.
You can create your own composite folder using a Saved Search,  but it has
its own quirks such as being read-only.  Annoying when you forget you're
looking at one and try to drag and drop into it.

Another reason, for me, not to use Unified Folders.  They can only
homogenize the regular built-in folders and have no value in Local Folders
or with user-created folders. Useless to those of us who file messages
meaningfully by context rather than provenance.  ;-)

-- 
Chris.
0
Chris
7/30/2014 1:01:01 AM
Chris Ramsden wrote:

> No data is removed.  The true provenance can be inferred from the headers
> and this is what the various add-ons attempt to do.  

If you've looked at headers for a lot of e-mails, you will realize the
recipient's e-mail address is not always specified.  It won't be in the
To or Cc headers if it was bulk mailed.  Those are headers added by the
sending client, NOT by the sending mail server.  Those headers are data
in the message, sent with the body in the DATA command, and are NOT used
to specify the recipients of an e-mail.  The e-mail client must compile
an aggregate list of senders and for each send a RCPT TO command to the
mail server.  The list of RCPT TO recipients does not have to match
those specified in the To/Cc data headers.  Server-added headers may
reveal the recipient's e-mail address but they cannot be relied upon to
always be present.  

I've seen lots of e-mails delivered to me (and other users) that have no
e-mail address specified in the headers to identify the recipient.
That's why it is up to the e-mail client to keep track through which
account an e-mail was retrieved.

For example, the recipient's e-mail address may (but is not required) to
be specified in the Received headers.  If specified, that info is after
the 'with' token and in the optional parameters thereafter.  The entire
'with' clause is optional.  Sometimes the recipient's e-mail address is
shown in the 'for' clause in a Received header but, again, that clause
is optional.

The actual recipient may not be exposed in any header in a received
e-mail.  The client that composed the e-mail doesn't have to specify the
true recipient as it tells the sending mail server the recipients via a
list of RCPT TO commands.  The mail servers don't have to add any of the
optional clauses to the Received headers nor do they have to insert
additional headers that specify the recipient.  A received e-mail does
NOT have to show the recipient's e-mail address.  It is NOT required for
delivery of e-mail.

> Another reason, for me, not to use Unified Folders.  They can only
> homogenize the regular built-in folders and have no value in Local Folders
> or with user-created folders. Useless to those of us who file messages
> meaningfully by context rather than provenance.  ;-)

While I tried using the Unified Folders view for a couple months, I had
to give up on it.  Every time I clicked on a unified (search) folder, it
had to go search each folder to which it was subscribed.  That was slow.
I'd see the tab icon keep spinning for 15-30 seconds (which is long when
you're sitting there waiting for it to update and repeating this every
time you visit another search folder).  Yes, I could turn off the sync
update feature so the search was only local and didn't check if there
were new e-mails up on the server but the point of using a unified
folder view was so I could see all my e-mails both local and new.  

I also ran into forgetfullness with the unified folders.  I'd click on
the unified folder, wait for the spinner to stop, and would see no new
e-mails.  Yet if I clicked on each account's folder rolled under that
unified folder, I'd find there were new messages.  The problem is that
somehow the list of subscribed folders for the unified folders had
changed.  Either no account folders were selected for inclusion in the
search or one or two accounts had gotten deselected.  I had gotten so
used to this that I only used Unified Folder to group the folders but
I'd manually go click on each Inbox folder underneath to really check if
I had new e-mails.  Too many e-mails got read too late because of this
so I stopped using Unified Folders view.
0
VanguardLH
7/30/2014 2:25:07 PM
On 2014-07-29 20:27, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:

> I don't have that add-on. What I see is my reply goes through Account1 
> (the default account) instead of Account2 (through which the message 
> was received). 

Have you tried the AddOn yet?

Regards,

-- 
    _\|/_    Sylvain / B00ze64@hotmail.com
    (o o)    Member-+-David-Suzuki-Foundation-+-Planetary-Society-
  oO-( )-Oo  The registered copy doesn't work either?

0
B00ze
7/30/2014 10:30:23 PM
B00ze wrote:

> On 2014-07-29 20:27, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
> 
>> I don't have that add-on. What I see is my reply goes through Account1 
>> (the default account) instead of Account2 (through which the message 
>> was received). 
> 
> Have you tried the AddOn yet?
> 
> Regards,

Haven't had time yet.  Before I get around to Thunderbird (which I use
only for e-mail), I have to fix a problem in my NNTP client (which I use
only for Usenet).  

Chris mentioned that just the headers in an e-mail can decide through
which account an e-mail was received.  See my reply to him.  An e-mail
can be delivered with NO RECIPIENT info in any header.  That's not how
SMTP works.  The envelope info during a mail session between two SMTP
servers is not accessible or recorded in the e-mail.  Any header
containing the recipient's e-mail address is optional information.
Without Tbird doing the tracking of which account from which an e-mail
was retrieved, or losing that information, using the headers is not a
reliable backup scheme to determine the account.

I suspect the add-on tries to parse e-mail addresses out of Received and
other recipient-oriented headers; however, if that optional information
is absent then this add-on can't find the recipient e-mail address to
then match up to an identity in Tbird.

Another problem with relying on the recipient's e-mail address in a
header is that it may not be for an account currently defined in Tbird.
Say you import a bunch of old e-mails from an archive.  The accounts
through which they were received no longer exist, so the e-mail
addresses for the recipient (you) in the headers is old and defunct.  In
fact, all of the imported e-mails that I saved under Local Folders were
for old accounts that no longer exist and were never defined in Tbird.
The add-on won't find an identity with those old and currently undefined
e-mail addresses.

Something that tries to find the recipient e-mail address in the headers
may fail because that is optional information in the headers.  The
recipient is not required to be [correctly] identified in any header,
even in the To or Cc headers because they are not used in specifying the
target for an e-mail (commands between client and server and between
server to server specify the recipient, not any data added to a message
by the sender's client).  The only way to correctly track through which
account an e-mail was received is for the client to track that as an
attribute or record field in the message store for the client.

The add-on may give me greater frequency of using the correct account
when replying to a message moved under Local Folders but it won't be
100% accurate.  In fact, how often it works depends on what optional
recipient information the sending server added to headers in the
message, and too often that optional info is absent.  For imported
messages, there's a good chance that optional recipient information is
incorrect.
0
VanguardLH
7/31/2014 1:00:53 AM
Good day Sir.

On 2014-07-30 21:00, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
> B00ze wrote:
>
>> On 2014-07-29 20:27, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't have that add-on. What I see is my reply goes through Account1
>>> (the default account) instead of Account2 (through which the message
>>> was received).
>> Have you tried the AddOn yet?
>>
>> Regards,
> Haven't had time yet.  Before I get around to Thunderbird (which I use
> only for e-mail), I have to fix a problem in my NNTP client (which I use
> only for Usenet).
>
> Chris mentioned that just the headers in an e-mail can decide through
> which account an e-mail was received.  See my reply to him.  An e-mail
> can be delivered with NO RECIPIENT info in any header.  That's not how
> SMTP works.  The envelope info during a mail session between two SMTP
> servers is not accessible or recorded in the e-mail.  Any header
> containing the recipient's e-mail address is optional information.
> Without Tbird doing the tracking of which account from which an e-mail
> was retrieved, or losing that information, using the headers is not a
> reliable backup scheme to determine the account.

The only emails I get that have invalid or missing TO headers are junk 
mail. I always wondered how the hell they get delivered without any 
information inside telling the mailers who the email is for. In any 
case, most of my mail has valid headers so the AddOn works for me.

> I suspect the add-on tries to parse e-mail addresses out of Received and
> other recipient-oriented headers; however, if that optional information
> is absent then this add-on can't find the recipient e-mail address to
> then match up to an identity in Tbird.
>
> Another problem with relying on the recipient's e-mail address in a
> header is that it may not be for an account currently defined in Tbird.
> Say you import a bunch of old e-mails from an archive.  The accounts
> through which they were received no longer exist, so the e-mail
> addresses for the recipient (you) in the headers is old and defunct.  In
> fact, all of the imported e-mails that I saved under Local Folders were
> for old accounts that no longer exist and were never defined in Tbird.
> The add-on won't find an identity with those old and currently undefined
> e-mail addresses.

That's ok, you can add "aliases" to each account, to tell the AddOn that 
these aliases are also part of the account. So it works even on 
non-existent addresses so long as you add them to the search (2nd tab in 
the settings).

> Something that tries to find the recipient e-mail address in the headers
> may fail because that is optional information in the headers.  The
> recipient is not required to be [correctly] identified in any header,
> even in the To or Cc headers because they are not used in specifying the
> target for an e-mail (commands between client and server and between
> server to server specify the recipient, not any data added to a message
> by the sender's client).  The only way to correctly track through which
> account an e-mail was received is for the client to track that as an
> attribute or record field in the message store for the client.
>
> The add-on may give me greater frequency of using the correct account
> when replying to a message moved under Local Folders but it won't be
> 100% accurate.  In fact, how often it works depends on what optional
> recipient information the sending server added to headers in the
> message, and too often that optional info is absent.  For imported
> messages, there's a good chance that optional recipient information is
> incorrect.

Best Regards,

-- 
    _\|/_    Sylvain / B00ze64@hotmail.com
    (o o)    Member-+-David-Suzuki-Foundation-+-Planetary-Society-
  oO-( )-Oo  I'm not telling where my spots end! -Dax

0
B00ze
7/31/2014 1:01:01 AM
Good WeekEnd Yay!

On 2014-08-01 06:20, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
> B00ze wrote:
>
>> The only emails I get that have invalid or missing TO headers are junk
>> mail.
> The Bcc field (present only in the new-mail compose window, NOT as a
> header) is also used by known good senders who respect their recipients'
> privacy by not divulging e-mail addresses to all the other recipients.
> When Bcc is used, there will either be no To/Cc headers, they will be
> blank, or they have a bogus value or merely point back to the sender.

I've sent emails (in business setting, not from home) where everyone is 
in BCC, but I always assumed a TO was also required (so I sent the mail 
to a mailbox, and BCC'ed everyone). I didn't know it was possible to 
omit TO altogether and simply BCC everyone...

> I have received e-mails from the public library that do not specify my
> name and e-mail address in the To header.  Instead they show their own
> account.  For example, I have them send a reminder 4 days before a book
> is due for return.  Those reminder e-mails do not have me identified in
> the To header.  This is not uncommon.  I've had forums and businesses
> that use automated senders to issue e-mails that I want and agreed to
> receive and even configured to receive that do not specify me as the
> recipient.

I get mail from businesses, lists, etc, but it seems they are all nice 
players, I always have a TO header (I just looked, I have zero email 
without something valid in the recipient column, besides junk mail). I 
thought it was such a good idea that this addOn was using, I was sure 
I'd made your day and fixed the problem :-(

> The add-on might work well for most e-mails but it relies on information
> that is optional in the headers of an e-mail.  The client is where the
> account tracking should be recorded with the e-mail in its message
> store.  The add-on tries to compensate for Tbird's deficiency.  That it
> works doesn't mean it is reliable which is dictated by what senders add
> to their client-added headers and by what sending servers add to the
> server-added headers.  You could get very accustomed to the add-on
> making the correct choice most of the time and then just once end up
> sending an e-mail that divulges your default e-mail address.

Ya, you are right, I will get used to the AddOn and it will fail one 
day, if your own experience with header-less emails is a common practice...

Best Regards,

-- 
    _\|/_    Sylvain / B00ze64@hotmail.com
    (o o)    Member-+-David-Suzuki-Foundation-+-Planetary-Society-
  oO-( )-Oo  I am Burns of Borg. Smithers! Assimilate them!

0
B00ze
8/1/2014 1:01:01 AM
B00ze wrote:

> The only emails I get that have invalid or missing TO headers are junk 
> mail. 

The Bcc field (present only in the new-mail compose window, NOT as a
header) is also used by known good senders who respect their recipients'
privacy by not divulging e-mail addresses to all the other recipients.
When Bcc is used, there will either be no To/Cc headers, they will be
blank, or they have a bogus value or merely point back to the sender.

I have received e-mails from the public library that do not specify my
name and e-mail address in the To header.  Instead they show their own
account.  For example, I have them send a reminder 4 days before a book
is due for return.  Those reminder e-mails do not have me identified in
the To header.  This is not uncommon.  I've had forums and businesses
that use automated senders to issue e-mails that I want and agreed to
receive and even configured to receive that do not specify me as the
recipient.

I can whitelist the library's e-mails or from any business from whom I
want their e-mails to which I subscribed but that doesn't help when
moving those messages under Local Folders.  I whitelisted those senders
not only to circumvent any filtering on them (i.e., obviate false
positives from anti-spam filters) but also because I do have a rule that
junks e-mails that don't identify me in the To/Cc headers.  So anyone
sending me an e-mail shared with other recipients by using Bcc in their
client or senders that act like bulk mailers need to be whitelisted.
Yet whitelisting doesn't force Tbird to retain account info within its
record of an e-mail.  Dragging those whitelisted e-mails under Local
Folders will still lose through which account the e-mail was received,
and those whitelisted e-mails won't have my e-mail address for an add-on
to ferret out to figure out through which account the e-mail was
received.

Many senders may operate as bulk mailers.  You initiated something for
them to send you an e-mail that you do want.  They couldn't give a
gnat's fart about the *data* headers in the message because those aren't
used by the sending mail server to identify the recipient(s).  Only the
RCPT TO commands sent by the client or sending mail server are used to
identify recipients.  Every field or header in a received e-mail that
has your e-mail address is optional.  SMTP was built on a trust model
(which spammers have abused).

The add-on might work well for most e-mails but it relies on information
that is optional in the headers of an e-mail.  The client is where the
account tracking should be recorded with the e-mail in its message
store.  The add-on tries to compensate for Tbird's deficiency.  That it
works doesn't mean it is reliable which is dictated by what senders add
to their client-added headers and by what sending servers add to the
server-added headers.  You could get very accustomed to the add-on
making the correct choice most of the time and then just once end up
sending an e-mail that divulges your default e-mail address.

Thanks for the add-on suggestion but it doesn't seem reliable as it
searches for e-mail addresses in the headers that may not be there and
don't have to be there.
0
VanguardLH
8/1/2014 10:20:07 AM
B00ze wrote:

> Good WeekEnd Yay!
> 
> On 2014-08-01 06:20, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>> B00ze wrote:
>>
>>> The only emails I get that have invalid or missing TO headers are junk
>>> mail.
>> The Bcc field (present only in the new-mail compose window, NOT as a
>> header) is also used by known good senders who respect their recipients'
>> privacy by not divulging e-mail addresses to all the other recipients.
>> When Bcc is used, there will either be no To/Cc headers, they will be
>> blank, or they have a bogus value or merely point back to the sender.
> 
> I've sent emails (in business setting, not from home) where everyone is 
> in BCC, but I always assumed a TO was also required (so I sent the mail 
> to a mailbox, and BCC'ed everyone). I didn't know it was possible to 
> omit TO altogether and simply BCC everyone...
> 
>> I have received e-mails from the public library that do not specify my
>> name and e-mail address in the To header.  Instead they show their own
>> account.  For example, I have them send a reminder 4 days before a book
>> is due for return.  Those reminder e-mails do not have me identified in
>> the To header.  This is not uncommon.  I've had forums and businesses
>> that use automated senders to issue e-mails that I want and agreed to
>> receive and even configured to receive that do not specify me as the
>> recipient.
> 
> I get mail from businesses, lists, etc, but it seems they are all nice 
> players, I always have a TO header (I just looked, I have zero email 
> without something valid in the recipient column, besides junk mail). I 
> thought it was such a good idea that this addOn was using, I was sure 
> I'd made your day and fixed the problem :-(
> 
>> The add-on might work well for most e-mails but it relies on information
>> that is optional in the headers of an e-mail.  The client is where the
>> account tracking should be recorded with the e-mail in its message
>> store.  The add-on tries to compensate for Tbird's deficiency.  That it
>> works doesn't mean it is reliable which is dictated by what senders add
>> to their client-added headers and by what sending servers add to the
>> server-added headers.  You could get very accustomed to the add-on
>> making the correct choice most of the time and then just once end up
>> sending an e-mail that divulges your default e-mail address.
> 
> Ya, you are right, I will get used to the AddOn and it will fail one 
> day, if your own experience with header-less emails is a common practice...
> 
> Best Regards,

It's not that the e-mails are "header-less".  It's that the recipient's
e-mail address is optional information in all headers.  Either a clause
in a header that would have the recipient's e-mail address is optional
or the entire header is optional.  The recipient's e-mail address is
informational data, not transactional data; i.e., it is not required
anywhere in the headers to deliver the e-mail.  The receiving account
never gets the envelope data (commands) used during SMTP transactions.

I still get some e-mails where the recipient's e-mail address (mine) is
not specified in any header.  This is not the typical case but it
happens often enough that it would get easy to accidentally reply to an
e-mail where the default e-mail account got divulged instead of the
e-mail address for the account through which the e-mail got received.  I
well protect my e-mail addresses and make sure to use the correct one in
a reply.  In some cases, I use aliases to my true e-mail address, so
when I reply it should go back through the aliasing service and not out
through the default account.  Protecting my accounts has resulted in
getting very little spam.

Until I started to drag messages to under Local Folders, I didn't have
to always monitor which account got used in a reply.  The e-mails were
still in the account through which they were received so replies used
that same account.  It hadn't dawned on me that Mozilla would not add a
field in a record in its message store for an e-mail item to track
through which account an e-mail was received.  Seemed like basic info to
track with a message.  My assumption proved wrong.

So it looks like I will have to forego moving e-mails out of accounts
into the Local Folders group.  I'll have to keep the e-mails under the
account through which they were received so the same account is used by
default in a reply.
0
VanguardLH
8/2/2014 1:01:01 AM
On Sat, 2 Aug 2014 03:42:48 -0500, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH>
wrote:

>B00ze wrote:
>
>> Good WeekEnd Yay!
>> 
>> On 2014-08-01 06:20, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>>> B00ze wrote:
>>>
>>>> The only emails I get that have invalid or missing TO headers are junk
>>>> mail.
>>> The Bcc field (present only in the new-mail compose window, NOT as a
>>> header) is also used by known good senders who respect their recipients'
>>> privacy by not divulging e-mail addresses to all the other recipients.
>>> When Bcc is used, there will either be no To/Cc headers, they will be
>>> blank, or they have a bogus value or merely point back to the sender.
>> 
>> I've sent emails (in business setting, not from home) where everyone is 
>> in BCC, but I always assumed a TO was also required (so I sent the mail 
>> to a mailbox, and BCC'ed everyone). I didn't know it was possible to 
>> omit TO altogether and simply BCC everyone...
>> 
>>> I have received e-mails from the public library that do not specify my
>>> name and e-mail address in the To header.  Instead they show their own
>>> account.  For example, I have them send a reminder 4 days before a book
>>> is due for return.  Those reminder e-mails do not have me identified in
>>> the To header.  This is not uncommon.  I've had forums and businesses
>>> that use automated senders to issue e-mails that I want and agreed to
>>> receive and even configured to receive that do not specify me as the
>>> recipient.
>> 
>> I get mail from businesses, lists, etc, but it seems they are all nice 
>> players, I always have a TO header (I just looked, I have zero email 
>> without something valid in the recipient column, besides junk mail). I 
>> thought it was such a good idea that this addOn was using, I was sure 
>> I'd made your day and fixed the problem :-(
>> 
>>> The add-on might work well for most e-mails but it relies on information
>>> that is optional in the headers of an e-mail.  The client is where the
>>> account tracking should be recorded with the e-mail in its message
>>> store.  The add-on tries to compensate for Tbird's deficiency.  That it
>>> works doesn't mean it is reliable which is dictated by what senders add
>>> to their client-added headers and by what sending servers add to the
>>> server-added headers.  You could get very accustomed to the add-on
>>> making the correct choice most of the time and then just once end up
>>> sending an e-mail that divulges your default e-mail address.
>> 
>> Ya, you are right, I will get used to the AddOn and it will fail one 
>> day, if your own experience with header-less emails is a common practice...
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>
>It's not that the e-mails are "header-less".  It's that the recipient's
>e-mail address is optional information in all headers.  Either a clause
>in a header that would have the recipient's e-mail address is optional
>or the entire header is optional.  The recipient's e-mail address is
>informational data, not transactional data; i.e., it is not required
>anywhere in the headers to deliver the e-mail.  The receiving account
>never gets the envelope data (commands) used during SMTP transactions.

Not directly but some POP3 servers add headers so that the
envelope data can be seen. For example, Gmail adds Delivered-To:
and Return-Path: ; my ISP adds Envelope-to: and Return-path: .
-- 
Roger
0
Roger
8/2/2014 9:58:42 AM
Reply:

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