Mutiplicity on grc.privacy and grc.security

There is a debate going on on these two newsgroups which appears to be 
duplicating itself.

I suggest that until some evidence of sanity prevails Steve should set up a 
single newsgroup for example grc.phorm to allow the participants and all 
interested parties use these original newsgroups for more germaine input.

PS I am interested in the "arguments" but would prefer them to be in one 
place and not have to read the same input over and over again.

-- 
Alan Cameron 

0 Alan 4/20/2009 2:06:37 PM

[for the unabridged version, see the post above]
> There is a debate going on on these two newsgroups which appears to be
> duplicating itself.
>
> I suggest that until some evidence of sanity prevails Steve should
> set up a single newsgroup for example grc.phorm to allow the
> participants and all interested parties use these original newsgroups
> for more germaine input.
>
> PS I am interested in the "arguments" but would prefer them to be in
> one place and not have to read the same input over and over again.

+1 I agree with you. :)

That makes sence.

I went to http://www.grc.com/feedback.htm and pointed him, to this thread.

X-Url: http://www.GRC.com/groups/news.feedback:77211
Xref: news.grc.com grc.news.feedback:77211
X-URL2: http://12078.net/groups/news.feedback:77211
*

-- 
Posted from the desk of John Doe. It is not if you win or lose the game
that counts, it is how you play it. :) 

0 DSLR 4/20/2009 3:46:46 PM

Hi Alan.

> There is a debate going on on these two newsgroups which appears to be 
> duplicating itself.

Guilty as charged.

> I suggest that until some evidence of sanity prevails Steve should set up a 
> single newsgroup for example grc.phorm to allow the participants and all 
> interested parties use these original newsgroups for more germaine input.

Ouch. Why load more onto Steve, when a friendly request might do?

> PS I am interested in the "arguments" but would prefer them to be in one 
> place and not have to read the same input over and over again.

Your wish is my command. No let's see if the others follows...

Nils

0 Nils 4/20/2009 5:11:31 PM

[for the unabridged version, see the post above]
> Hi Alan.
>
>> There is a debate going on on these two newsgroups which appears to
>> be duplicating itself.
>
> Guilty as charged.
>
>> I suggest that until some evidence of sanity prevails Steve should
>> set up a single newsgroup for example grc.phorm to allow the
>> participants and all interested parties use these original
>> newsgroups for more germaine input.
>
> Ouch. Why load more onto Steve, when a friendly request might do?
>

They were notified of the request. I have no idea of what area that they 
will choose...

X-Url: http://www.GRC.com/groups/privacy:49771
Xref: news.grc.com grc.privacy:49771
X-URL2: http://12078.net/groups/privacy:49771

and

X-Url: http://www.GRC.com/groups/security:128962
Xref: news.grc.com grc.security:128962
X-URL2: http://12078.net/groups/security:128962

-- 
Posted from the desk of John Doe. It is not if you win or lose the game
that counts, it is how you play it. :) 

0 DSLR 4/20/2009 5:23:29 PM

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 15:06:37 +0100, Alan Cameron wrote:

> There is a debate going on on these two newsgroups which appears to be 
> duplicating itself.
> 
> I suggest that until some evidence of sanity prevails Steve should set up a 
> single newsgroup for example grc.phorm to allow the participants and all 
> interested parties use these original newsgroups for more germaine input.
> 
> PS I am interested in the "arguments" but would prefer them to be in one 
> place and not have to read the same input over and over again.

The thread in grc.security is still on-topic. The thread in grc.privacy
has suffered from topic drift. My contributions were pre-drift, and I
have tried to stay out since. 

But some visitors do not subscribe to all the grc newsgroups, and the
Phorm phiasco touches on both privacy and security, so this may be an
ongoing problem, even if a dedicated group were established.

-- 
Howard

0 Howard 4/20/2009 6:32:26 PM

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 15:06:37 +0100, "Alan Cameron"
 wrote:

>There is a debate going on on these two newsgroups which appears to be 
>duplicating itself.
>
>I suggest that until some evidence of sanity prevails Steve should set up a 
>single newsgroup for example grc.phorm to allow the participants and all 
>interested parties use these original newsgroups for more germaine input.
>
>PS I am interested in the "arguments" but would prefer them to be in one 
>place and not have to read the same input over and over again.

This has got to be the most overly presumptuous post of the week - and
it's only Monday.

Some folks post about a topic that interests you, but only enough to
keep your attention if the discussion occurs in one group (and
presumably one thread/subject)?  I'm happy to see ongoing reasonable
and reasoned discussion and am ecstatic that neither topic has
devolved into a name calling flamefest.  

Please take the good with the bad.



-- 
Passwords are like underwear -
don't share them with your friends
don't hang them on your monitor
change them twice a year

0 vince 4/20/2009 7:11:11 PM

"vince"  wrote in message 
news:iohpu4dkeg54cnqflels6dc76sqcjj2v0m@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 15:06:37 +0100, "Alan Cameron"
>  wrote:
>
>>There is a debate going on on these two newsgroups which appears to be
>>duplicating itself.
>>
>>I suggest that until some evidence of sanity prevails Steve should set up 
>>a
>>single newsgroup for example grc.phorm to allow the participants and all
>>interested parties use these original newsgroups for more germaine input.
>>
>>PS I am interested in the "arguments" but would prefer them to be in one
>>place and not have to read the same input over and over again.
>
> This has got to be the most overly presumptuous post of the week - and
> it's only Monday.

Please explain what you mean by presumptuous.
All I am asking for is consolidation of the duplication which is occurring.

I accept that there may be relevance in the grc.privacy newsgroup of the 
thread/s which are developing arguments but what element of security does it 
impact on?

> Some folks post about a topic that interests you, but only enough to
> keep your attention if the discussion occurs in one group (and
> presumably one thread/subject)?  I'm happy to see ongoing reasonable
> and reasoned discussion and am ecstatic that neither topic has
> devolved into a name calling flamefest.

The problem is that none of the postings are "bad" they are all germaine to 
the subject of the effect and legality or illegality of the Phorm 
"situation". But having to plough through a lot of duplication is 
distracting. I believe that the discussion of what is and is not legal may 
not turn on many people, especially those who do not understand the basics 
of the system proposed, but I am happy to see it being rationally pursued.

But please not in two places.



-- 
Alan Cameron 

0 Alan 4/20/2009 10:06:11 PM

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 23:06:11 +0100, Alan Cameron wrote:

> I accept that there may be relevance in the grc.privacy newsgroup of the 
> thread/s which are developing arguments but what element of security does it 
> impact on?

It's the security element that concerns me. The privacy aspect does not
bother me very much. DPI makes it a little more difficult to be sure
that I am taking the necessary steps to protect our clienrs' data. 
If discussion re Phorm occurs anywhere, it should be in grc.security,
IMO.

-- 
Howard

0 Howard 4/21/2009 11:01:30 AM

"Alan Cameron"  wrote:

>There is a debate going on on these two newsgroups which appears to be 
>duplicating itself.



>PS I am interested in the "arguments" but would prefer them to be in one 
>place and not have to read the same input over and over again.

Alan - Your newsreader should be able to eliminate duplicate posts in a
second group.  I have no idea where the option is in OE.

TomT

0 TomT 4/21/2009 5:32:40 PM

"TomT"  wrote in message 
news:2i0su4l0o0l0bkigph7loc29c4glm8vcfg@4ax.com...
> "Alan Cameron"  wrote:
>
>>There is a debate going on on these two newsgroups which appears to be
>>duplicating itself.
>
> 
>
>>PS I am interested in the "arguments" but would prefer them to be in one
>>place and not have to read the same input over and over again.
>
> Alan - Your newsreader should be able to eliminate duplicate posts in a
> second group.  I have no idea where the option is in OE.
>
> TomT

Yes it would if the posters did not subtle vary the content to make them not 
exact duplicates.

It is irrelevant which news reader I use.
The almost duplication would still exist so no prizes for disparaging OE 
then.



-- 
Alan Cameron 

0 Alan 4/21/2009 10:13:52 PM

Hi Alan.

>>> PS I am interested in the "arguments" but would prefer them to be in one
>>> place and not have to read the same input over and over again.
>> Alan - Your newsreader should be able to eliminate duplicate posts in a
>> second group.  I have no idea where the option is in OE.
> Yes it would if the posters did not subtle vary the content to make them not 
> exact duplicates.

You sure gives the impression of having a bad mood. I didn't mind your
original post much, you did after all have a valid point. But this is a
little rich, we're not "subtly" doing anything to ruin your day my
friend, only engaging in discussions we're interested in, wherever they
may turn up.

> It is irrelevant which news reader I use.
> The almost duplication would still exist so no prizes for disparaging OE 
> then.

I read TomT as just trying to help. I can't even see where he implies
there's anything wrong with OE. Even if you two have a "history" I don't
know about, I think it would be wiser to reply in kind.

Finally I would like to respectfully suggest we all contribute to the
overall newsgroups "sanity" by ending this thread now.

Nils

0 Nils 4/21/2009 10:35:42 PM

On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 in grc.news.feedback, Alan Cameron wrote
>"TomT"  wrote in message
>news:2i0su4l0o0l0bkigph7loc29c4glm8vcfg@4ax.com...
>> "Alan Cameron"  wrote:

[..]

>>>PS I am interested in the "arguments" but would prefer them to be in one
>>>place and not have to read the same input over and over again.
>>
>> Alan - Your newsreader should be able to eliminate duplicate posts in a
>> second group.  I have no idea where the option is in OE.
>
>Yes it would if the posters did not subtle vary the content to make them not
>exact duplicates.

It's not the content that determines "duplicate" posts, it's the 
headers. A duplicate post is one that is cross posted into 2 groups at 
once. Something that's deliberately hard to do on GRC. But a properly 
done cross post should be marked read in all groups that it exists in 
once you've read it in one. No newsreader is likely to mark posts in 
multiple groups as read just because the content is the same.

What you're probably seeing is 'similar' responses to similar points.

>It is irrelevant which news reader I use.

Depends. Some handle cross posts better than others, I don't recall 
where OE falls in the spectrum. But they aren't cross posts here anyway, 
so it is indeed irrelevant.

>The almost duplication would still exist so no prizes for disparaging OE
>then.

True, technically. 

-- 
GRC Newsgroups/Guidelines/No Regrets:
http://www.imilly.com/noregrets.htm
 From invalid, Reply To works.
http://www.2kevin.net/munging.html

0 Kevin 4/21/2009 10:55:22 PM

"Nils R Grotnes"  wrote in message 
news:gslhom$15da$1@news.grc.com...
> Hi Alan.
>

SNIP

> Finally I would like to respectfully suggest we all contribute to the
> overall newsgroups "sanity" by ending this thread now.
>
> Nils

Ended

-- 
Alan Cameron 

0 Alan 4/22/2009 8:23:39 AM

"Alan Cameron"  wrote:

>"TomT"  wrote: 

>> Alan - Your newsreader should be able to eliminate duplicate posts in a
>> second group.  I have no idea where the option is in OE.
>
>Yes it would if the posters did not subtle vary the content to make them not 
>exact duplicates.

>It is irrelevant which news reader I use.

I had subject line in mind not the content of the post.  And I think
it's very relevant what news reader you use as some can mark dups as
read and others can't.

>The almost duplication would still exist so no prizes for disparaging OE 
>then.

I said I'm not familiar with OE to avoid you asking me how to shut off
the dups.

TomT

0 TomT 4/22/2009 9:24:34 PM