What's coming in Embarcadero RAD Studio XE2: 64-bit Windows Delphi, OS/X support, FireMonkey the nextgen, multi-platfrom GPU 2D/3D UI framework... more

http://www.dzone.com/links/whats_coming_in_embarcadero_rad_studio_xe2_64bit.html

With RAD Studio XE2, you will be able to create 64-bit Windows Delphi  
applications to take advantage of the latest hardware, access more memory,  
build 64-bit server applications, and push the performance envelope. And  
with FireMonkey„¢, the new GPU-powered next-generation application  
platform, you€™ll be able to create visually stunning HD and 3D business  
applications, using Delphi and C++, that are more immersive and  
interactive than anything on the market and deploy them to Windows and Mac

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0 Ciprian 8/2/2011 5:32:53 AM

> you€™ll be able to create visually stunning HD and 3D business  applications

The "business applications" is somewhat of a stretch IME, these days 
business applications are mostly handled via RDP/TSE, in "private 
clouds", 3D and GPU don't play well with those...

It's great for demos on the marketing-droids laptops, not so good for 
everyday business apps.

Eric

0 Eric 8/2/2011 6:37:41 AM

> {quote:title=Ciprian Popa wrote:}{quote}
> http://www.dzone.com/links/whats_coming_in_embarcadero_rad_studio_xe2_64bit.html
> 
> With RAD Studio XE2, you will be able to create 64-bit Windows Delphi  
> applications to take advantage of the latest hardware, access more memory,  
> build 64-bit server applications, and push the performance envelope. And  
> with FireMonkey„¢, the new GPU-powered next-generation application  
> platform, you€™ll be able to create visually stunning HD and 3D business  
> applications, using Delphi and C++, that are more immersive and  
> interactive than anything on the market and deploy them to Windows and Mac
> 
> -- 
> Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

What about 64-bit Windows C++Builder XE2 ? Is it already to use ?

0 Ali 8/2/2011 9:30:37 AM

On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 12:30:37 +0300, Ali Zhang  wrote:

>> {quote:title=Ciprian Popa wrote:}{quote}
>> http://www.dzone.com/links/whats_coming_in_embarcadero_rad_studio_xe2_64bit.html
> What about 64-bit Windows C++Builder XE2 ? Is it already to use ?
According to the roadmap [ http://edn.embarcadero.com/article/39934 ] it  
should follow after "Pulsar" (XE2) being part of "Wheelhouse" project.

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0 Ciprian 8/2/2011 9:58:47 AM

Planned XE3.

> What about 64-bit Windows C++Builder XE2 ? Is it already to use ?

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0 Michael 8/2/2011 11:53:35 AM

> {quote:title=Eric Grange wrote:}{quote}
> > you€™ll be able to create visually stunning HD and 3D business  applications
> 
> The "business applications" is somewhat of a stretch IME, these days 
> business applications are mostly handled via RDP/TSE, in "private 
> clouds", 3D and GPU don't play well with those...
> 
> It's great for demos on the marketing-droids laptops, not so good for 
> everyday business apps.

You're arguing against having a snazzy UI for business applications because some things might suffer when viewed using a remote desktop?

I'd be curious to see what does and does not translate well.  I could see animations that take advantage of the GPU suffering, but I would expect vector graphics and other effects to show as expected.

What specific things are you thinking about?  The best use of improved graphics in "business applications" that I can think of off the top of my head is something like a daskboard or similar BI visualisation.

If you're attending any of the world tour events, be sure to bring this up.

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Bruce McGee
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0 Bruce 8/2/2011 2:06:15 PM

> I could see animations that take advantage of the GPU suffering,
 > but I would expect vector graphics and other effects to show
 > as expected.

Everything not handled by GDI (and thus that can be rendered 
client-side) is sent as a bitmap (ie. heavy network-wise) that is 
rendered in software (without GPU) by the RDP server.

For more, see: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4854534

Another interested article is
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/jgoldb/archive/2010/02/27/optimizing-visual-studio-2010-and-wpf-applications-for-remote-desktop.aspx

It details RDP issues of WPF applications, which are also supposed to 
take advantage of the GPU, and face similar RDP challenges FireMonkey 
apps are likely to face.

My point being that those days, even users with full-blown desktop PC 
are more and more often using them either as RDP clients to desktop 
cloud apps, or as as webclient (using a web browser).

I have no detailed insight into FireMonkey, but to cover business apps, 
the key issue will be how well it degrades over RDP (not just in terms 
of wire transfer, but also of software-rendering on the RDP server...), 
or if they're planning their own RDP and a web-based client (where it 
could take advantage of GPU via Flash or HTML5).

 > If you're attending any of the world tour events, be sure to bring 
this up.

I'm not, none is happening close enough to be worth it, and currently 
we're headed down the HTML5 path anyway, so that would just be an 
"interesting" question.

Also I guess it'll all be rather obvious once the tech is available and 
there is real-world feedback from the wild world of hardware out there.

Eric

0 Eric 8/2/2011 3:43:21 PM

On 08/02/2011 13:37, Eric Grange wrote:

> It's great for demos on the marketing-droids laptops, not so good for
> everyday business apps.

Some business applications were built on WPF, and it is great. This is 
an example of it:

http://www.istartedsomething.com/20080109/frog-design-wpf-sexy-enterprise-software/

-Jaimy.

0 Jaimy 8/2/2011 3:47:49 PM

> platform, you€™ll be able to create visually stunning HD and 3D business
> applications, using Delphi and C++, that are more immersive and

I know its a nitpick... but I wonder why they cant just say "create visually 
stunning HD and 3D applications".  And simply leave 'business' out of it. 
Why do they insist on pushing marketing material that, quite frankly, 
excludes a huge (if not the majority) segment of the industry?  I know its 
just fluff scribbled out by marketing drones, but it does hint at their 
point of view that Delphi is for business, and non-business users are second 
class citizens to them.

0 Joe 8/2/2011 7:28:19 PM

On 08/03/2011 02:28, Joe Demartino wrote:

> I know its a nitpick... but I wonder why they cant just say "create visually
> stunning HD and 3D applications".  And simply leave 'business' out of it.

Business application were commonly does not need stunning HD, 3D, and 
fancy widget. Non-business application that commonly does it. However it 
seems this has been changed recently as WPF bring it as a standard 
technology.

The most closer competitor of delphi as a RAD Tool in desktop 
application arena is .NET, and indeed WPF does bring this technology and 
has been used in several business applications. I guess this something 
that emb targeted from the begining.

-Jaimy.

0 Jaimy 8/3/2011 3:16:15 AM

> And simply leave 'business' out of it. 

Perhaps because they don't mean "games" which are often 3D, and they are letting
you know that it isn't suitable for that. 

/Matthew Jones/

0 Matthew 8/3/2011 10:07:33 AM

> This is an example of it:

AFAICT it's more an example of "runs well on the marketing laptop, not 
so well in a real RDP business environment".
Getting WPF to behave decently in a RDP environment requires some work, 
and cutting down on the eye candy, see
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/jgoldb/archive/2010/02/27/optimizing-visual-studio-2010-and-wpf-applications-for-remote-desktop.aspx

I just wonder if that's an aspect taken into account by FireMonkey, or 
if they just use a GPU surface, which is not only going to be software 
rendered on the RDP server, but also blitted across the network as one 
huge bitmap for every minor UI change (worst case).

Eric

0 Eric 8/3/2011 12:06:06 PM

> [..] However it seems this has been changed recently as WPF bring
 > it as a standard technology.

IMHO you're giving too much credits to WPF, these days, it's still a 
minor under-performing player, and it looks more on the wane than 
anything else (compared to the days when WinAPI was pretty much 
dictating UI), with alternative platforms aplenty .

The tech leaders in that area are rather Apple (iPhone, iPad & Mac UIs) 
and web techs (FireFox, Chrome & Flash).

And technologically speaking, if FireMonkey is successful, it'll just be 
another nail in the WPF coffin.

Eric

0 Eric 8/3/2011 12:10:38 PM

> Perhaps because they don't mean "games" which are often 3D, and they are letting
> you know that it isn't suitable for that.

Pity, availability of a GPU typically means a consumer hardware is 
running your apps, for business apps, RDP is king, and that typically 
means server-side software-rendering.

Eric

0 Eric 8/3/2011 12:11:58 PM

"Matthew Jones"  wrote in message 
news:383804@forums.embarcadero.com...
>> And simply leave 'business' out of it.
>
> Perhaps because they don't mean "games" which are often 3D, and they are
> letting you know that it isn't suitable for that.

Well, Delphi could be perfectly suitable as a game development platform.

But also, a lot - if not most these days - of commercial software designed 
for home use (think of things like media players, home video editors, and 
all that **** that gets sent along with any piece of hardware you buy) use 
those flash-style interfaces now, as opposed to standard MS Office/Windows 
style interfaces.  FireMonkey sounds like it'd be *perfect* for that type of 
app.  But being so focused on 'business' apps, I'm concerned they (at least 
their marketing people) have their blinders on about exactly how flexible 
and appealing Delphi is to 'non-business' developers.

0 Joe 8/3/2011 7:46:22 PM