DNN 2.0 Timeline & Status (As of 1/19/04)

I am responsible for the administration of the Alpha testing of DNN 2.0.  This post is being made to help answer questions regarding status of the 2.0 release.


The 2.0 release is going to be (has already been) handled a bit differently than prior releases.  In the past, releases have been completely hidden to the public until an official "release" was ready to distribute.  As many of you know, a very current copy of alpha code can be obtained at any time from the source control on our GotDotNet Community Workspace.


*** Disclaimer ***


Alpha code is not for the faint of heart nor the inexperienced.  You play with this code at your own risk and there is no warantee nor guarantee that you will have an upgrade path.  This code is specifically intended for developers who wish to keep up with the way the code is being modified for their own personal use (like getting ready to upgrade modules).  This code should NOT be used for any production or important installation.


*** End Disclaimer ***


DNN 2.0 is a significant overhaul (understatement).  Alpha testing is being done internal to the core team to ensure that all major funtionality (and enhancements) are operable.  What will follow will be a "public beta release"... NOT a general release.  The beta period will last for an indeterminate amount of time until the application is well stabilized.  The beta release will not necessarily contain final documentation, final upgrade utilities, etc.


When beta testing is showing both the application and the installation/upgrade procedures to be stable and complete, then the general release will be made.  DotNetNuke has grown (exploded, actually) in a way larger than most of us had ever anticipated.  And we consider it a great responsibility to ensure that the released product is solid enough for production use.  Following the general release of 2.0, you can expect to see some big changes in 2004... it's going to be a blast!!!


Regarding Schedule: Our intention is to complete our alpha testing near the end of January.  No specific dates will be promised as the releases will be driven based on quality, rather than speed.  Release dates will be announced as they become official, but those announcements will not be made signifcantly in advance of the release.  I can tell you that we are all actively testing, logging and fixing bugs and encountering side-effects of new functionality that require either documentation, enhancement or sometimes fixing.  We are currently involved in working over the BLL using the SQL provider.  Once the BLL has been adequately worked over, we will also exercise the Access provider (effectively isolating bugs in this testing to the provider itself).


Alpha testing is not open to the public simply because the vast majority of what would be reported is already caught... it takes more time to wade throught the bug reports than the value it provides.  Although, any serious developer who is working with the alpha code and wants to send in a bug report to the team may do so (and does *grin*).  The **** beta will provide plenty of opportunity for community involvement.


All the members of the core team have different strengths and perform different roles.  I have the dubious privelege of representing the team through statements such as this.  But I would ask you all to give sincere appreciation to the rest of the team whose unbelievable commitments and contributions make this possible.  Additionally, there are a great many contributors who are not on the core team without whose help DNN 2.0 would not be possible.  We will be exploring different forms of team organization and methods of contribution/participation to "open the net" (so to speak) as time goes on.


I hope this information is of value to you.


Kind Regards,


Scott Willhite


"Coordinator", Alpha Testing 2.0

Scott Willhite
It is only with the heart that one can see rightly... what is essential is invisible to the eye. 
~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

0 mrswoop 1/19/2004 6:58:18 PM

All ~


There is fresh alpha code on our Workspace at GotDotNet which corresponds to our latest Alpha build, 2.0.1479.


What the heck does that mean?


It means that, despite our inability to "label" code at GDN, we are working internally with our own labels to ensure some consistency in testing.  This helps us to know that we are working from the same code base as we test, report bugs and attempt to fix them.  For many of you this is pretty normal stuff... for us too... in environments where we are more centrally located or have additional tools.  But the distributed environment and use of free tools makes it a bit harder.  We have it on our radar to assemble a team to work on a next generation development environment in the future... but this is today.


So what are some of the types of things that we are working on?  This is by no means a comprehensive list...


** There is extensive use of caching (performance improvement) going on, but it causes the bulk-mailer (which runs on a separate thread) some issues.


** Dates, always dates.  Mostly just formatting in the presentation layer and correct handling in the BLL.  Remember, most everything has been rewritten to work in the PL/BLL/DAL model.


** Vendors, keeping the Admin (per portal) and Host (universal) lists separate.


** Email configuration and autogenerated emails.


** SQL Upgrade scripts.


** Site Log generation


** User Management


** Exception Reporting


** PA Installer


** Skinning nuances


We settled about 15 "major" issues in the last week and, following the new build will begin logging our next round.  As a reminder, our alpha testing is not "open" (in the real sense) but if you are alpha testing and find something obscure (we'll see the easy stuff), please let us know.


Nothing significant to report from our team meeting yesterday other than the new build and continued work.


Cheers,


Scott
Scott Willhite
It is only with the heart that one can see rightly... what is essential is invisible to the eye. 
~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

0 mrswoop 1/20/2004 8:02:34 PM

Scott,


This is great info.  Is there anyplace where you can keep this info in a blog, and RSS feed?  If not, I'd volunteer hosting the info, although it seems better suited to the main DNN site. Is that possible?  If not, I could give you a blog to keep the info, and capable of allowing others to subscribe to it.


I know everyone is clamoring for info, and that the Core team is working very hard.  I know I echo these thoughts for everyone - You folks ROCK!!! We appreciate everything the team is doing.  Let me know if I can help.


iwonder
iwonder
Mission, KS - USA

0 iwonder 1/21/2004 1:13:54 AM

Been playing with the 2.0 alpha and have a couple of questions.


1. is usersonline in the core? I didn't see it in download.


2. are we going to create either codesmith templates for modules or a wizard? i just started looking at this to get programmers up to speed on the new framework.


3. where would you guys like fixes posted? 


4. if we have additions to components, who do we submit them to? ie cookie class, plugin class, cryptography class, enumerations, language translation, etc...


5. can we move to compile with option strict on?


looks really good.  just want to add to the project.


richard

0 rhferguso 1/21/2004 1:02:29 PM

A blog would be a fantastic idea, or at least an RSS feed. It would allow a lot more of the tech community to get behind you. I'm sure that with just a few updates you could get Scoble'd resulting in at least a thousand new visitors to the DNN site and likely many qualified new users.

0 jeremywright 1/21/2004 1:42:18 PM

Well, I'm going to ask the age old question that you probably can't answer, again.  But I am dieing here and need advice.


We have a development project on a very very tight schedule that must come out March 1 and is basically starting right now.  There is a ton of work to do, and instead of using the modified version of IBS that we have created, we have chosen to go with DotNetNuke.  Maintaining a portal base is not the line of work we are wanting to be in, and honestly, you guys do a far superior job.


Now my issue is obviously code for 1.1.10d or 1.2.  There are a few key features of 1.2 that are almost critical to us, first the table prefixing (although that could be worked around if we had to) and also skinning.  Also PAs will play a key role in what we want to do and there seems to be more flexible support for them in 1.2.


I have the Alpha code and I love what you all are doing.  I do have a few concerns that maybe you could address.  I notice you mention the PA installer.  I also have noticed that the Survey and Whois modules are broken out.  I can't for the life of me figure out how to install them though, either through the file upload or adding a new module definition.  Is this all still in the works?


I'm trying to decide if we should code for 1.2 and then if push comes to shove revert to 1.1.10d, or if we should code for 1.1.10d and upgrade if 1.2 is ready.  I would really hate to have to upgrade a month later and I would love to be able to start taking advantage of 1.2 features.


I realize the risk involved in going with 1.2, then, this entire project is a huge risk.  I know the more sensible folks will say to go with 1.1.10d, but is the 1.2 risk reasonable?  I would need to start working with the code almost immediately.


Again, I know it is an impossible question, but I am really looking for some advice.  Thanks for all the great work.


Sean

-Sean


Edstrom Industries

0 sbarry 1/21/2004 1:48:53 PM

Hi Richard,


I can answer:- 


1.) No but I am toying with a different implementation - i actually made the changes required for dnn 2.0, but we decided to approach it a different way, this one involving using the site log, so we don't have to add an extra hit on the database and it could be easily turned off, and data not duplicated. So to answer your question ~yes (have a few more queries to check)


2.) This is definately a good idea. Shaun was on holidays for 2 weeks, coming back this end of week, he took the module developers guide with him to work on. Perhaps this is where we can get some help from someone in the community familiar with codesmith.


3.) This forum -> Core Framework titled appropriately, or sent to either of the Scott's, Scott Willhite (mrswoop[AT]tough.net) or me (smcculloch[AT]iinet.net.au). When we hit beta, we'll use the gdn workspaces bug tracker. We're using an internal tool at the moment so we dont' flood the bug tracker on gdn workspaces.


4.) Shaun is still probably the best person to submit things like this. Bear in mind some are coming in 2.1, and because they are utility classes can easily be referenced outside of the core for the 2.0 release, and brought into the fold at a later date.


5.) I would like too - not sure where this is at.










Modules, Skins & Skin Objects @ www.smcculloch.net

0 smcculloch 1/21/2004 1:53:49 PM

Hi Sean,


>> I have the Alpha code and I love what you all are doing. I do have a few concerns that maybe you could address. I notice you mention the PA installer. I also have noticed that the Survey and Whois modules are broken out. I can't for the life of me figure out how to install them though, either through the file upload or adding a new module definition. Is this all still in the works? 


While shaun was away he was finishing the PA installer, this is the last feature left out at the moment. Shaun gets back at the end of the week and perhaps can update. The PA installer will include some of the features from PA Gold.


>> I'm trying to decide if we should code for 1.2 and then if push comes to shove revert to 1.1.10d, or if we should code for 1.1.10d and upgrade if 1.2 is ready. I would really hate to have to upgrade a month later and I would love to be able to start taking advantage of 1.2 features. 


All I can advise is write the PA's for 1.x, 2.0 is backward compatible, so you shouldn't have to make too many changes.


>> I realize the risk involved in going with 1.2, then, this entire project is a huge risk. I know the more sensible folks will say to go with 1.1.10d, but is the 1.2 risk reasonable? I would need to start working with the code almost immediately. 


Yes, its difficult for a few reasons, upgrade paths if you use a alpha/beta build, and there is not a fixed release date for 2.0 yet, although we are getting closer to the beta release.
Modules, Skins & Skin Objects @ www.smcculloch.net

0 smcculloch 1/21/2004 1:59:17 PM

rhferguso on 01-21-2004 08:02 AM


....


2. are we going to create either codesmith templates for modules or a wizard? i just started looking at this to get programmers up to speed on the new framework. 


....


I can take a lead on templates. I've just adopted "in-house" tool to be used by others, but was not aware of Codesmith. It's implemented as a stored procedure (see 443875) and from what I learned, it should not take too much to convert it to CodeSmith templates.


Question to the core team. Can we post such templates to one central location (dotnetnuke site?), so everybody knows where to find them?

Alex.

0 aei 1/21/2004 3:59:29 PM

Sean ~


Irrespective of my feelings on DNN, I would NEVER advise any client to delay implementation on a major new release of software.  If the general release of DNN 2.0 were to occur today, I suspect that would still put you in a bind.  My advice to you would be to use the 1.0.10 release and stick as closely to an unmodified core as possible.  This will provide you with a cleaner upgrade path when 2.0 is released.  We will help you as much as possible.  If you can defer your skinning requirements until closer to your release (concentrating on functionality), you can save yourself issues in your upgrade by using the 2.0 approach.


Just something to consider... but, again, NEVER rely on promises (or anything outside of your control) for what you plan for a client.


Cheers,


Scott
Scott Willhite
It is only with the heart that one can see rightly... what is essential is invisible to the eye. 
~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

0 mrswoop 1/21/2004 6:02:59 PM

All ~


I knew that by allowing replies to my last update I would be opening Pandora's box *smile*.  I know there has been a shortage of published information around 2.0, specific features, tools, upgrade paths, etc.  The reason is simple... we are still working on the ALPHA of the release.  Everyone's ideas and suggestions are great and are welcome... but we need a little more time to concentrate on the task at hand... getting to BETA.  Then we will have a little more capacity.


Couple good notes I'd like to address:


1) Our current team (and solution) organization makes decentralized decision making more difficult than it should be.  We are also working to address this.  Sorry for the lack of blogs, etc... We'll do something about those short term deficiencies here real soon.


2) With regard to external tools (like codesmith), we would welcome some help here.  During BETA we plan to work more on the "ancillary" items, like tools, documentation & upgrade, etc.  Although I know that the codesmith author (sorry I've forgotten your handle) and Shaun have been in communication.  You might contact him directly to see if he would like some collaboration assistance.  This would be true for any tool or utility or module that someone would like to see around in time for the 2.0 general release... That's why ALPHA code is available to play with.  We have a Module Developers guide in progress, but it might be nice if one of you other big module developers would take some good notes on your efforts to retrofit for 2.0... we can compare notes.


3) Scott McCulloch and I are tracking the team Alpha issues list.  If you are doing alpha testing, you can contact him or I (as he indicated).  Please keep the issues to FIXING as we are not considering ANY enhancements until the alpha is fully stabilized.  Please include full details to recreate your issue or it won't get paid much attention.


*** FINALLY ***


We know that some of you want to be able to contribute more than you are able to now.  Please bear with us a bit longer... We are certain that the release of 2.0 is going to make us busier than ever and so we want it clean.  We also want our own organization to become more efficient in handling community issues, development, marketing, etc.  We want to get more of you involved.  2004 is going to be a very good year for DNN.


Another thing you might all consider is this... we are working hard to make the core, itself, more extensible (over time).  So when you are figuring out cool ways to modify DNN... try to figure out how they can be implemented without "core modifications" (as PA's), or, what would have to be abstracted from the core to more easily allow general pluggin functionality.  Consider the example of a "Menu Provider" just as we have "Data Providers" now.  The core will get leaner and cleaner... and the availability of "pluggin" options will increase.


Cheers,


Scott
Scott Willhite
It is only with the heart that one can see rightly... what is essential is invisible to the eye. 
~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

0 mrswoop 1/21/2004 6:18:12 PM

Is there any way we could get to the code without going through the GotDotNet workspaces?  I can never get the install to work and as far as I ever get is the page with the workspaces client installation.  Regardless of how many times I install it / uninstall it / install it, it never works...

0 dm0527 1/21/2004 6:44:36 PM

This is why the blog is a good place for this type of update status on 2.0.  Its read-only and information about the project only. 


Questions then could be new threads here on the forum.  


It seems like a simple idea, so allow the core-members to post to the blog on http://www.dotnetnuke.com.  And please update often with any details to let the community know what is happening, even if you had a meeting and talk about the weather.  The community just wants to know whats happening.


-- Ingram


   www.elephantoutlook.com

0 ingram 1/21/2004 6:56:09 PM

Scott... CodeSmith authors name is Eric Smith.  


I've been debating using CodeSmith myself or rolling my own code generator for DNN.  I've written my own custom app that generates a DAL layer/ stored procedures but the generated code isn't DNN compliant.  I believe with a little effort on my part I will have something useful to share with the community.   


Shaun and I were debating the DAL layer a couple of weeks back but a few things were left up in the air...  For now I will simply write the code/templates to be 2.0 compliant and make some of the more robust features I would like to see optional. i.e.  Transaction management and concurrency, etc


I should have something more tangible in the next 3-4 weeks.


Kevin

0 kevin 1/21/2004 7:14:51 PM

Thanks Kevin ~


BTW, I'm still hanging on to your TM thread... I just haven't had time to come back to it yet.  TM and concurrency are both important items, but as I know you understand... we need to start somewhere.  As options those are both very valuable, until we can implement them in a coherent and consistent manner for everyone to use.  Portals that don't need them shouldn't have to pay the performance penalty if they don't need to.


Thanks Again,


Scott
Scott Willhite
It is only with the heart that one can see rightly... what is essential is invisible to the eye. 
~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

0 mrswoop 1/21/2004 9:09:01 PM

Any chance someone with admin rights on the forum could lock this at the top?
GMSS DNN

0 mikeh36 1/23/2004 5:52:31 PM

FYI ~


I will be posting a community status report (of sorts) after our weekly core team meeting on Monday afternoons (PST), at least through the beta period.  You can also expect for Shaun's official blog to start picking up again soon.  We'll get this information in a more accessible location (blog, pinned post, DNN site, or something) real soon.


Cheers,


Scott
Scott Willhite
It is only with the heart that one can see rightly... what is essential is invisible to the eye. 
~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

0 mrswoop 1/23/2004 6:14:56 PM

Thanks Scott. I only suggested it because of the semi-blowup in the DNN 2.0 thread and that it might make things a little easier on the Core team. I'm too busy right now on another project to worry about DNN and can easily wait until it's proper release.
GMSS DNN

0 mikeh36 1/24/2004 4:47:16 AM