Will Turbo Pascal ever become open source?

Now that Delphi is on the edge of becoming a 64 bit compiler, I wonder if Turbo Pascal will ever become open source.

Just don't get me wrong: I do not want a debate here of wether or not Delphi sould become open source. In my opinion, Delphi has a clear roadmap, a cool development team and it seems that Embarcadero does support the development in a good way. So for me, Delphi should stay closed source.

But does Turbo Pascal still has any value to Embarcadero or to anyone? Couldn't we just learn a lot from that old piece of software and Mr. Anders Hejlsberg if it were open source?

In general: Why doesn't any software company release its old software to the public as open source?

What do you think?
0
Fix
5/14/2009 10:47:23 AM
embarcadero.delphi.non-tech 5933 articles. 1 followers. Follow

19 Replies
392 Views

Similar Articles

[PageSpeed] 51

<Fix Minze> wrote in message news:116561@forums.codegear.com...

> In general: Why doesn't any software company release its old software to
the public as open source?

Why should they? What good can that do to the company?
0
Samuel
5/14/2009 11:07:50 AM
> {quote:title=Samuel Kaas wrote:}{quote}
> <Fix Minze> wrote in message news:116561@forums.codegear.com...
> 
> > In general: Why doesn't any software company release its old software to
> the public as open source?
> 
> Why should they? What good can that do to the company?

Maybe asking Mr. Anders to go to help the free pascal compiler makes more sense.   ^_^
Open source can call more people know pascal, it will help delphi and VCL
however, as you know, Codegear is not a big company such as IBM or Sun
it should afford such a big cost or risk.
0
Chi
5/14/2009 12:01:07 PM
> {quote:title=Samuel Kaas wrote:}{quote}
> <Fix Minze> wrote in message news:116561@forums.codegear.com...
> 
> > In general: Why doesn't any software company release its old software to
> > the public as open source?
> 
> Why should they? What good can that do to the company?

Good question! But I can aks the opposite: Given that a software has become worthless for a company, what bad can it do to the company to release it as open source "as it is without any warranty"?
0
Fix
5/14/2009 12:46:59 PM
> {quote:title=Chi SongTao wrote:}{quote}
> 
> Maybe asking Mr. Anders to go to help the free pascal compiler makes more sense.   ^_^
> Open source can call more people know pascal, it will help delphi and VCL
> however, as you know, Codegear is not a big company such as IBM or Sun
> it should afford such a big cost or risk.

Well, as far as I know, a couple of years ago, Mr. Hejlsberg has been asked by one of the developer of Free Pascal (I think it was Marco van de Voort who asked) - and Mr. Hejlsberg basically replied "Thanks, but no thanks" - which we have to respect.

But your answer is heading my question unfortunately in the wrong direction. The question wasn't how the help the Pascal language to become more popular but why not open up Turbo Pascal.
0
Fix
5/14/2009 1:51:34 PM
Fix Minze wrote:

> Good question! But I can aks the opposite: Given that a software has
> become worthless for a company, what bad can it do to the company to
> release it as open source "as it is without any warranty"?

I don't disagree with the idea, but there are some reasons why a
company would choose not to. It costs them time, for starters -
tracking down the code, getting it into a releasable state, setting up
a SourceForge or whatever account, etc. All takes time, and time equals
money.

Also, there are licensing considerations. Not the OS license, nor prior
end-user licenses, but IP license agreements binding upon the source
code itself. The code may well make use of libraries or technologies
that were licensed from a third party, who may or may not be willing to
have their portion be open sourced. Dealing with that of course takes
more time, which again equates to more money.

In a perfect world... well, this isn't one.
0
Tom
5/14/2009 2:48:56 PM
Hi,

"Fix Minze" wrote in message news:116561@forums.codegear.com...
> Now that Delphi is on the edge of becoming a 64 bit compiler, I wonder if 
> Turbo Pascal will ever become open source.
>
You do know that Turbo Pascal was written in highly optimized assembler, 
which means there is little to learn for the average Delphi enthousiast.
I know there are commented disassemblies of TP 3 floating on the internet, 
that can even be reassembled.
Not that I could do anything useful with them.

Regards, Matt
0
Matt
5/14/2009 3:04:48 PM
Fix Minze wrote:

> 
> In general: Why doesn't any software company release its old software
> to the public as open source?

Because it contains valuable Intellectual Property.

-- 
Nick Hodges
RAD Studio R&D Manager - Embarcadero
http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges
0
Nick
5/14/2009 3:17:53 PM
Fix Minze wrote:

>  But I can aks the opposite: Given that a software has become
> worthless for a company, what bad can it do to the company to release
> it as open source "as it is without any warranty"?

The main bad thing is that it shows a lack of protection for
intellectual property.  Not protecting IP can lead to the loss of IP.

-- 
Nick Hodges
RAD Studio R&D Manager - Embarcadero
http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges
0
Nick
5/14/2009 3:18:50 PM
"Fix Minze" wrote in message news:116561@forums.codegear.com...
>
> But does Turbo Pascal still has any value to Embarcadero or to anyone? 
> Couldn't we just learn a lot from that old piece of software and Mr. 
> Anders Hejlsberg if it were open source?


Open source or free? They made a few versions of TP available for free 
download a long time ago:

http://dn.embarcadero.com/museum/antiquesoftware

If you mean open-sourcing the *compiler* code for any or all of these, 
that's a different issue and I don't see how that would be of value to 
anyone but those interested in compiler techniques or a special interest in 
Anders H's work.

-- 
Wayne Niddery - TeamB (www.teamb.com)
Tips to Get Published: http://dn.codegear.com/article/38467
Winwright, Inc. (www.winwright.ca)
0
Wayne
5/14/2009 3:32:55 PM
Nick Hodges wrote:
> The main bad thing is that it shows a lack of protection for
> intellectual property.  Not protecting IP can lead to the loss of IP.

No.

Revealing your trade secrets *will* of course lead to the loss of those 
trade secrets, but open sourcing your code most certainly doesn't 
invalidate your patents and copyrights. If you don't defend your IP 
people might lose respect in your ability to protect your IP, but that 
is a different matter, since you might still sue them for infringement.
0
Utf
5/14/2009 3:44:24 PM
> {quote:title=Nick Hodges wrote:}{quote}
> Fix Minze wrote:
> 
> > 
> > In general: Why doesn't any software company release its old software
> > to the public as open source?
> 
> Because it contains valuable Intellectual Property.
> 
> -- 
> Nick Hodges
> RAD Studio R&D Manager - Embarcadero
> http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges

I know Nick, however, does this IP still has value to your company - I mean the Turbo Pascal kernel was written in assembler, whereas Delphi 32-bit and 64-bit is probably written in C (or C++) if I am not mistaken. The architecture of those two products are so different that opening up Turbo Pascal wont hurt the IP of Delphi. But I might be wrong here.
0
Fix
5/14/2009 3:56:05 PM
> {quote:title=Wayne Niddery wrote:}{quote}
> "Fix Minze" wrote in message news:116561@forums.codegear.com...
> >
> > But does Turbo Pascal still has any value to Embarcadero or to anyone? 
> > Couldn't we just learn a lot from that old piece of software and Mr. 
> > Anders Hejlsberg if it were open source?
> 
> 
> Open source or free? They made a few versions of TP available for free 
> download a long time ago:
> 
> http://dn.embarcadero.com/museum/antiquesoftware

I meant open source - not free. I know about those downloads - thanks!

> If you mean open-sourcing the *compiler* code for any or all of these, 
> that's a different issue and I don't see how that would be of value to 
> anyone but those interested in compiler techniques or a special interest in 
> Anders H's work.

Well, there are some people out there interested in compiler techniques or have a special interest in Mr. Hejlsberg work.
0
Fix
5/14/2009 4:00:03 PM
Henrick Hellström wrote:

> No.
> 
> Revealing your trade secrets will of course lead to the loss of those 
> trade secrets, but open sourcing your code most certainly doesn't 
> invalidate your patents and copyrights. If you don't defend your IP 
> people might lose respect in your ability to protect your IP, but
> that is a different matter, since you might still sue them for
> infringement.

IANAL, and will defer to your expertise here, for sure.

In any event, we won't be open sourcing our products.  ;-)

-- 
Nick Hodges
RAD Studio R&D Manager - Embarcadero
http://blogs.codegear.com/nickhodges
0
Nick
5/14/2009 7:51:57 PM
Nick Hodges wrote:
> In any event, we won't be open sourcing our products.  ;-)

Didn't say you should. Why would you want to compete with FPC on a zero 
profit business segment? ;)
0
Utf
5/15/2009 1:01:52 AM
> {quote:title=Fix Minze wrote:}{quote}
> > {quote:title=Wayne Niddery wrote:}{quote}
> > "Fix Minze" wrote in message news:116561@forums.codegear.com...
> > >
> > > But does Turbo Pascal still has any value to Embarcadero or to anyone? 
> > > Couldn't we just learn a lot from that old piece of software and Mr. 
> > > Anders Hejlsberg if it were open source?
> 
> > If you mean open-sourcing the *compiler* code for any or all of these, 
> > that's a different issue and I don't see how that would be of value to 
> > anyone but those interested in compiler techniques or a special interest in 
> > Anders H's work.
> 
> Well, there are some people out there interested in compiler techniques or have a special interest in Mr. Hejlsberg work.

I seriously doubt that you'd learn anything from looking at the source of Turbo Pascal - except to wonder in amazement at how Anders ever managed to do it. There are infinitely better ways of learning about compiler techniques than looking at assembler code. I recommend Niklaus Wirth's 1996 'Compiler Construction' book also now available as a download:

http://www-old.oberon.ethz.ch/WirthPubl/CBEAll.pdf

If you specifically want to see the implementation of a Pascal compiler then Steve Pemberton's book with fully documented source code of the P4 Pascal compiler is here:

http://homepages.cwi.nl/~steven/pascal/

--
Chris Burrows
CFB Software
Armaide v2.0: ARM Oberon-07 Development System
http://www.cfbsoftware.com/armaide
0
Chris
5/15/2009 3:53:22 AM
Fix Minze wrote:

> > {quote:title=Samuel Kaas wrote:}{quote}
> > <Fix Minze> wrote in message news:116561@forums.codegear.com...
> > 
> > > In general: Why doesn't any software company release its old
> > > software to the public as open source?
> > 
> > Why should they? What good can that do to the company?
> 
> Good question! But I can aks the opposite: Given that a software has
> become worthless for a company, what bad can it do to the company to
> release it as open source "as it is without any warranty"?

It would not surprise me that, despite a lot of changes, the current
compiler is still based on the core of the TP compiler, which was also
very fast. It would not be a good idea to simply release the code of
the TP compiler so every competitor can take a look at it.

-- 
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)        http://www.teamb.com

"If it wasn't for C, we'd be writing programs in BASI, PASAL, and
 OBOL." -- unknown
0
Rudy
5/15/2009 11:09:09 AM
> {quote:title=Nick Hodges wrote:}{quote}
> 
> In any event, we won't be open sourcing our products.  ;-)

What a bold statment - reminds me a bit of the former Sony president who basically said about ten years ago: "We won't open our walkmans for MP3" -- Well done Sony, well done...

Anyway, I am fine with both statments. ;-)
0
Fix
5/18/2009 1:39:59 PM
> {quote:title=Chris Burrows wrote:}{quote}
> 
> I seriously doubt that you'd learn anything from looking at the source of Turbo Pascal - except to wonder in amazement at how Anders ever managed to do it. There are infinitely better ways of learning about compiler techniques than looking at assembler code. I recommend Niklaus Wirth's 1996 'Compiler Construction' book also now available as a download:
> 
> http://www-old.oberon.ethz.ch/WirthPubl/CBEAll.pdf
> 
> If you specifically want to see the implementation of a Pascal compiler then Steve Pemberton's book with fully documented source code of the P4 Pascal compiler is here:
> 
> http://homepages.cwi.nl/~steven/pascal/


Hi Chris,

Learning doesn't always mean that you start at zero. I am fairly into compilers and I do know quite a lot of them, however I am certainly not an expert. By looking into the source code of for example Turbo Pascal, one just might broaden his view of how things can be done - and even better, sometimes how things shouldn't be done. 

Anyway. I really appreciate your links, I do know the P4 compiler and I do have Wirth's book in printed form (though I think my one is in german) - however I didn't know the link to the english version - many thanks for that! :-)
0
Fix
5/18/2009 2:00:59 PM
Hello,

Fix Minze wrote:

> Anyway, I am fine with both statments. ;-)

+1. Still using MiniDisc :)

-- 
Moritz

"Hey, it compiles! Ship it!"
0
Moritz
5/19/2009 12:17:24 AM
Reply:

Similar Artilces:

When only non-open source will do the job
I'm running mepis7 beta 3, which is the best one yet as far as I can tell. I hope Warren Woodford finally settles on the debian kernel. I finally feel I am plugged in to the latest linux software. Sometimes, though, I haven't been able to find anything in the linux repositories to do the job, and have relied on non-open source utilities. I wonder if anyone else does the same and what you use. The ones I am using are: Vuescan for my hp scanjet 5370c scanner. Kooka just won't work beyond previewing and scanning at low resolution. Never has, and I've tested it wit...

"Dear Apple: I give up, WireframeApp will become open source."
Dear Apple: I give up, WireframeApp will become open source. I just sent this email: Dear Apple, I give up making software for you app store. Your DUNS number requirement was the last straw. I’ve been waiting 2 months for this number and was told I need to wait another month (60 working days total) unless I pay a substancial amount of money. So, please, GO TO HELL. From: http://wireframeapp.com/post/31629741670/dear-apple-i-give-up-wireframeapp-will-become-open []s Cesar Romero Seems an odd tale. DUNS numbers are standard for companies, and ours took only days....

superreview granted: [Bug 443918] Open-Source CVS version of FF forces me to accept proprietary, non-Open-Source EULA (license) : [Attachment 328809] Fix, v2, Keep existing pref
Mike Connor <mconnor@mozilla.com> has granted Gavin Sharp <gavin.sharp@gmail.com>'s request for superreview: Bug 443918: Open-Source CVS version of FF forces me to accept proprietary, non-Open-Source EULA (license) https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=443918 Attachment 328809: Fix, v2, Keep existing pref https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=328809&action=edit ------- Additional Comments from Mike Connor <mconnor@mozilla.com> sr=me ...

superreview requested: [Bug 443918] Open-Source CVS version of FF forces me to accept proprietary, non-Open-Source EULA (license) : [Attachment 328809] Fix, v2, Keep existing pref
Gavin Sharp <gavin.sharp@gmail.com> has asked Mike Connor <mconnor@mozilla.com> for superreview: Bug 443918: Open-Source CVS version of FF forces me to accept proprietary, non-Open-Source EULA (license) https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=443918 Attachment 328809: Fix, v2, Keep existing pref https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=328809&action=edit ------- Additional Comments from Gavin Sharp <gavin.sharp@gmail.com> >Index: browser/components/nsBrowserGlue.js > // Global override for tinderbox machines Can you change this comme...

The source control binding information has been removed for project. The project will be opened without source control.
Iam Getting This Error When i open the project.Can Anyone help me get out of this problem....

DevCafe
What is DevCafe source control?DevCafe Source Control allows users to share files and maintain a history of previous versions. We see its primary use for sharing information between organisations or for geographically dispersed teams.DevCafe Source Control has the following features:* Check in and checkout files* Attach notes to files* Create multiple projects all with different access rights* Create users with read only access to projects* Automatic versioning of files* Receive email notification when a file is changed* Encrypt files using Triple DES Encryption* Create MD5 Hash of files* Po...

OPEN SOURCE GOD: 480+ Open Source Applications
OPEN SOURCE GOD: 480+ Open Source Applications http://mashable.com/2007/09/23/open-source/ (credit go where credit is due, found the link in the current free edition of Gizmo's Support Alert newsletter You can read it online here: http://techsupportalert.com/issues/al_current.htm ) Bjorn Simonsen <bsusenet@broadpark.no> wrote in news:a7ech3p62tjeo1l560234q2ojsi4t2qnqc@4ax.com: > OPEN SOURCE GOD: 480+ Open Source Applications > > http://mashable.com/2007/09/23/open-source/ Great find! I discovered a LOT of apps I was looking for and could not find...

Delphi Open Source fragmentation?
What's going on with some of the major delphi open source projects, like SynEdit & VirtualTreeView It seems as though Embarcadero are deliberately out to ruin these projects, by sponsoring someone to fork them (on sourceforge*, the most antiquated hosting platform) and only support the latest version of Rad Studio? Why, to sell more upgrades? I find it difficult to trust that sort of goal, especially after seeing blog comments from Roman about zero based strings and ARC! Is anyone seriously going to use SynEdit or VirtualTreeView in a mobile app? These are VCL Contr...

Open source, non profit
Anyone knows any webs that are open source projects?I need some experience in "real world" so if there is some good site where we can make sites please forward the link.Thanks! dotnetnuke.comThey have a very big forum here....

Delphi 2010 will not open
Hello On a clean install of Windows 7 Ultimate, I have tried to install Delphi 2010 enterprise. In the process of installing my 3rd party tools, I received a "Stack Overflow" message when starting Delphi 2010. When closing the message, the IDE was not responsive to a mouse movement and the program would have to be closed with the Task Manager. I originally though that the problem was related to specific toolkit installations. However, after 4 install attempt of Delphi 2010 and always the install programs as administrator, I got Delphi and all of the toolkits in...

Delphi Open Source fragmentation?
What's going on with some of the major delphi open source projects, like SynEdit & VirtualTreeView It seems as though Embarcadero are deliberately out to ruin these projects, by sponsoring someone to fork them (on sourceforge*, the most antiquated hosting platform) and only support the latest version of Rad Studio? Why, to sell more upgrades? I find it difficult to trust that sort of goal, especially after seeing blog comments from Roman about zero based strings and ARC! Is anyone seriously going to use SynEdit or VirtualTreeView in a mobile app? These are VCL Contr...

Will there be Turbo Delphi Explorer 2009 ?
This time I ask a question for my friends. They are students who are developing a game in their spare time. The section of coding starts in about October this year. They ask me if they can have turbo delphi 2009 explorer to use the new good features of it. If they can, they will spend some time to learn the new feature of D2009 from now on, otherwise they should consider which to use, D2006, Visual Studio or G++. Can any one from CG show me the answer? I remember a thread here says there may be a turbo delphi 2009. IMO, TList<T> & TDictionary<T> will save them much spare t...

Delphi For Android Going Open Source
http://lenniedevilliers.blogspot.com/2010_10_01_archive.html ...

Delphi Prism for Open Source development
Is there a cheap standalone version of Delphi Prism for pupils? The best I could find was a ~100 € academic license of RAD Studio professional. Even better would be a free version that only allows open source development (like the GPL edition of Kylix). I'm asking this, because I know someone who doesn't have much money, because he's still a pupil and he'd like to help me with an OS project I'm writing in my spare time. As a side note: How "free" is the Delphi Prism command line compiler? I know that you're allowed to deploy it to ASP.NET se...

Web resources about - Will Turbo Pascal ever become open source? - embarcadero.delphi.non-tech

Book sources - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This page links to catalogs of libraries, booksellers, and other book sources where you will be able to search for the book with ISBN 817099280X ...

Microsoft rebrands Revolution R Open, will keep it free and open-source
... computing and predictive analytics. Most importantly, its Revolution R Open is now called Microsoft R Open and will remain open-source and ...

State pension crisis hurt Chicago's chances for GE headquarters, sources say
... and 800 jobs &amp;mdash; but the state's pension crisis and the condition of Chicago's public schools helped remove it from the running, sources ...

Teen Girl Found Dead in Hell's Kitchen Alley After Apparent Fall: Sources
... Hell's Kitchen apartment buildings Friday afternoon after possibly trying to jump from one roof to the other, according to the NYPD and sources ...

One Direction Splitting Up For Good? Not Happening, Source Says
The boy band is not breaking up, despite reports claiming they permanently split.

AP source: Browns moving on without coordinator DeFilippo
CLEVELAND (AP) A person familiar with the decision says Browns offensive coordinator John DeFilippo is no longer with the team.

Watch: The Fuel Source Powering Iowa's Political Dialogue
ABC News' Josh Haskell visits the Lincolnway Energy ethanol plant in Nevada, Iowa.

Source: Chargers think LA proposal has doable components
ESPN Source: Chargers think LA proposal has doable components ESPN The Chargers believe the proposal for them to join the Rams in Los Angeles ...

Consider the source: Apple keeps close eye on potential Time Warner spinoff
Note that the story comes from the Rupert Murdoch owned New York Post. Read on for thoughts on this.

Microsoft open sources Edge JavaScript code, plans Linux port
One month after promising to release the JavaScript engine of its Edge browser, Microsoft has proven good for its word and then some. Not only ...

Resources last updated: 1/17/2016 8:42:24 AM