forums.embarcadero.com - fantastically slow, for several months...

Maybe this is on my side, but I find these forums to be so unbelievably slow that they are on the edge of unusable.
For example, I posted a message at 1:56pm today it took me from that moment, until right now (2:28pm) to navigate across a few pages to get to the point where I could type in this message.   What I see in the status bar in the lower left of Google Chrome, when I click on links is:
sometimes, "waiting for available socket..."
and more often, "waiting for forums.embarcadero.com..."
Sometimes they respond quickly, sometimes it may take many minutes for a page to load or refresh.  This has been going on for several months now.
This really does not reflect well on Embarcadero.  I sincerely hope that this is just a problem with my browser, and it is not that Embarcadero is on the edge of going under, and cannot afford to keep these forums running properly.   I have a lot invested in Delphi, but this spooks me for sure!
0
Carl
6/26/2015 9:36:20 PM
📁 embarcadero.delphi.non-tech
📃 5933 articles.
⭐ 1 followers.

💬 34 Replies
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Carl wrote:
> Maybe this is on my side, but I find these forums to be so
> unbelievably slow that they are on the edge of unusable.
It is not you.  The server has stability problems.  It goes down frequently, 
it loses messages, it causes NNTP clients to post duplicate messages, etc.
> Sometimes they respond quickly, sometimes it may take many minutes for
> a page to load or refresh.  This has been going on for several months
> now.
IIRC, It has been happening for over a year, actually.
-- 
Remy Lebeau (TeamB)
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Remy
6/27/2015 12:46:29 AM
the forum does seem to be up more lately but is slow to reply to a post etc
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Brian
6/27/2015 2:06:56 AM
Brian Hamilton Hamilton wrote:
> the forum does seem to be up more lately but is slow to reply to a
> post etc
When a horse gets off your foot it feels pretty good, until you figure
out you still can't walk.
Illusion of relativity?  It's bad and, yes, Remy is right.  It's been
well over a year.
Dan
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Dan
6/27/2015 3:07:24 AM
Am 27.06.2015 um 04:06 schrieb Brian Hamilton Hamilton:
> the forum does seem to be up more lately but is slow to reply to a post etc
> 
Maybe it has to do with some users sending e-mails to the helpdesk when
the forum is down so they restart it.
But to be honest: they should have some monitoring tools to automate
this and to be honest again: I'd really like to know the status of that
database exchange project about which rumors can be read here.
Greetings
Markus
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Markus
6/27/2015 8:23:43 AM
> {quote:title=Carl Olsen wrote:}{quote}
> Maybe this is on my side, but I find these forums to be so unbelievably slow that they are on the edge of unusable.
It sure is terrible publicity for a company that makes its money with IT.
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Arthur
7/1/2015 9:43:48 AM
Arthur Hoornweg wrote:
> > {quote:title=Carl Olsen wrote:}{quote}
> > Maybe this is on my side, but I find these forums to be so
> > unbelievably slow that they are on the edge of unusable.
> 
> It sure is terrible publicity for a company that makes its money with
> IT.
It does not make money with forums, newsgroups or forum software. 
-- 
Rudy Velthuis        http://www.rvelthuis.de
"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious."
 -- Oscar Wilde
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Rudy
7/2/2015 6:46:09 AM
> It does not make money with forums, newsgroups or forum software. 
A short sighted statement has as ever been made.
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Mark
7/2/2015 12:20:56 PM
> It does not make money with forums, newsgroups or forum software. 
A short sighted statement has as ever been made.
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Mark
7/2/2015 12:29:55 PM
Mark Marks wrote:
> > It does not make money with forums, newsgroups or forum software. 
> 
> A short sighted statement has as ever been made.
Nonsense. As we already extabished, these forums are a service that
only very few (compared to the overall number of users) users use. And
the problems are with external software. So we are not that important,
here.
-- 
Rudy Velthuis        http://www.rvelthuis.de
"Misunderstandings and neglect create more confusion in this
 world than trickery and malice. At any rate, the last two are
 certainly much less frequent." -- Goethe, "Werther"
0
Rudy
7/2/2015 1:54:15 PM
> 
> Nonsense. As we already extabished, these forums are a service that
> only very few (compared to the overall number of users) users use. And
> the problems are with external software. So we are not that important,
> here.
You don't make money with a clean office but, I assume you keep it clean to keep customers coming back. A dirty office would cause some folks to not return.
As a programmer, that earns a living from programming, not as a hobby, I see how
a company responds to issues raised by all their customers. The newsgroups have
been poorly supported for a very long time.
As you put it "...we are not that important, here.", that is unfortunate 
and short sighted.
You wrote:
> It does not make money with forums, newsgroups or forum software. 
I wrote:
> A short sighted statement has as ever been made.
I stand by it. If Emb (and you) think that their failure to support their customers via the newsgroups, and let's face it the cost to do so is small, does not cost them ANY money, that is non sequitur;
too many folks complaining not to have an impact.
So, if one person does not purchase an Emb product because of poor 
support, by just keeping the newsgroup running, your argument is wrong. 
Simple.
Go ahead, have the last word.
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Mark
7/2/2015 2:55:42 PM
> 
> Nonsense. As we already extabished, these forums are a service that
> only very few (compared to the overall number of users) users use. And
> the problems are with external software. So we are not that important,
> here.
You don't make money with a clean office but, I assume you keep it clean to keep customers coming back. A dirty office would cause some folks to not return.
As a programmer, that earns a living from programming, not as a hobby, I see how
a company responds to issues raised by all their customers. The newsgroups have
been poorly supported for a very long time.
As you put it "...we are not that important, here.", that is unfortunate 
and short sighted.
You wrote:
> It does not make money with forums, newsgroups or forum software. 
I wrote:
> A short sighted statement has as ever been made.
I stand by it. If Emb (and you) think that their failure to support their customers via the newsgroups, and let's face it the cost to do so is small, does not cost them ANY money, that is non sequitur;
too many folks complaining not to have an impact.
So, if one person does not purchase an Emb product because of poor 
support, by just keeping the newsgroup running, your argument is wrong. 
Simple.
Go ahead, have the last word.
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Mark
7/2/2015 2:57:04 PM
> 
> Nonsense. As we already extabished, these forums are a service that
> only very few (compared to the overall number of users) users use. And
> the problems are with external software. So we are not that important,
> here.
You don't make money with a clean office but, I assume you keep it clean to keep customers coming back. A dirty office would cause some folks to not return.
As a programmer, that earns a living from programming, not as a hobby, I see how
a company responds to issues raised by all their customers. The newsgroups have
been poorly supported for a very long time.
As you put it "...we are not that important, here.", that is unfortunate 
and short sighted.
You wrote:
> It does not make money with forums, newsgroups or forum software. 
I wrote:
> A short sighted statement has as ever been made.
I stand by it. If Emb (and you) think that their failure to support their customers via the newsgroups, and let's face it the cost to do so is small, does not cost them ANY money, that is non sequitur;
too many folks complaining not to have an impact.
So, if one person does not purchase an Emb product because of poor 
support, by just keeping the newsgroup running, your argument is wrong. 
Simple.
Go ahead, have the last word.
0
Mark
7/2/2015 2:58:52 PM
Mark Marks wrote:
> > 
> > Nonsense. As we already extabished, these forums are a service that
> > only very few (compared to the overall number of users) users use.
> > And the problems are with external software. So we are not that
> > important, here.
> 
> You don't make money with a clean office but, I assume you keep it
> clean to keep customers coming back.
Yeah, well, unless 99.9% of these customers never see the office,
because they order online. I'd guess that 99.9% of Embarcadero's
customers never see these groups.
Sure, I'd like the groups to work better too, and it is a nuisance, but
I doubt the problems with the groups have the impact you seem to think
they have.
-- 
Rudy Velthuis        http://www.rvelthuis.de
"America ... just a nation of two hundred million used car
 salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns and no qualms
 about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us
 uncomfortable."
 -- Hunter S. Thompson
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Rudy
7/2/2015 3:11:34 PM
Mark Marks wrote:
> > 
> > Nonsense. As we already extabished, these forums are a service that
> > only very few (compared to the overall number of users) users use.
> > And the problems are with external software. So we are not that
> > important, here.
> 
> You don't make money with a clean office but, I assume you keep it
> clean to keep customers coming back.
Yeah, well, unless 99.9% of these customers never see the office,
because they order online. I'd guess that 99.9% of Embarcadero's
customers never see these groups.
Sure, I'd like the groups to work better too, and it is a nuisance, but
I doubt the problems with the groups have the impact you seem to think
they have.
-- 
Rudy Velthuis        http://www.rvelthuis.de
"America ... just a nation of two hundred million used car
 salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns and no qualms
 about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us
 uncomfortable."
 -- Hunter S. Thompson
0
Rudy
7/2/2015 3:16:48 PM
Mark Marks wrote:
> > 
> > Nonsense. As we already extabished, these forums are a service that
> > only very few (compared to the overall number of users) users use.
> > And the problems are with external software. So we are not that
> > important, here.
> 
> You don't make money with a clean office but, I assume you keep it
> clean to keep customers coming back.
Yeah, well, unless 99.9% of these customers never see the office,
because they order online. I'd guess that 99.9% of Embarcadero's
customers never see these groups.
Sure, I'd like the groups to work better too, and it is a nuisance, but
I doubt the problems with the groups have the impact you seem to think
they have.
-- 
Rudy Velthuis        http://www.rvelthuis.de
"America ... just a nation of two hundred million used car
 salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns and no qualms
 about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us
 uncomfortable."
 -- Hunter S. Thompson
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Rudy
7/2/2015 3:17:25 PM
OK, you can have the last word, afterwards.
>  I'd guess that 99.9% of Embarcadero's
> customers never see these groups.
That gave me a good smile. Talk about pulling a number out of the ole 
bunghole.
99.9%, HA
Made up number! HA
> I'd guess...
> I doubt...
You are funny. I write "nonsense" and you write...
The connection from ordering process = newsgroups usage is...
After review, I just fail to grasp the logic in your complete response.
OK, now you can have the last word.
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Mark
7/2/2015 3:37:08 PM
> As you put it "...we are not that important, here.", that is unfortunate 
> and short sighted.
Mark - You understand this perfectly.  I wish Embarcadero did.  User to user forums are sometimes the only way to get answers to the important questions that are needed in order to be an effective Delphi user.  They are just as much of the Delphi product as Delphi itself, and they +should+ be showing off what Embarcadero products can do.
I am suspicious that I have now posted multiple duplicates of this message, because the "post message" button appears not to be working, as I re-try a few times...
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Carl
7/2/2015 4:14:53 PM
Mark Marks <Mark <> wrote:
> OK, you can have the last word, afterwards.
> 
>>  I'd guess that 99.9% of Embarcadero's
>> customers never see these groups.
> 
> That gave me a good smile. Talk about pulling a number out of the ole 
> bunghole.
> 
> 99.9%, HA
> 
> Made up number! HA
Last number I was told was < 0.5% so not far off.  Even at its height back in 
the Borland days the newsgroups never reached 5% of the customer base.
-- 
Jeff Overcash (TeamB)
       (Please do not email me directly unless  asked. Thank You)
And so I patrol in the valley of the shadow of the tricolor
I must fear evil. For I am but mortal and mortals can only die.
Asking questions, pleading answers from the nameless
faceless watchers that stalk the carpeted  corridors of Whitehall.
              (Fish)
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Jeff
7/2/2015 8:22:15 PM
Mark Marks wrote:
> OK, you can have the last word, afterwards.
> 
> >  I'd guess that 99.9% of Embarcadero's
> > customers never see these groups.
> 
> That gave me a good smile. Talk about pulling a number out of the ole 
> bunghole.
Smile as much as you like, it doesn't make you look better. 
If you do the maths, you will see it is probably even a little closer
to 100%. But hey, think whatever you want to think. It won't change the
fact that Embarcadero knows what I wrote too.
-- 
Rudy Velthuis        http://www.rvelthuis.de
"Your every decision conspires to make this moment happen."
 -- Christi Philpott
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Rudy
7/3/2015 6:31:56 AM
Mark Marks wrote:
> OK, you can have the last word, afterwards.
> 
> >  I'd guess that 99.9% of Embarcadero's
> > customers never see these groups.
> 
> That gave me a good smile. Talk about pulling a number out of the ole 
> bunghole.
Smile as much as you like, it doesn't make you look better. 
As Jeff wrote, it is below 0.5%. If you do the math (number of people
writing here divided by number of people using the product), it is
probably even less. So my 99,9% are not far off.
-- 
Rudy Velthuis        http://www.rvelthuis.de
"Hain't we got all the fools in town on our side? And ain't
 that a big enough majority in any town?"
 -- Mark Twain
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Rudy
7/3/2015 6:41:11 AM
> So my 99,9% are not far off.
You are funny. It STILL is a made up number you attempt to pass off as a 
fact. Facts that you so often accuse folks of making up. HA
Pot and kettle and all.
> it doesn't make you look better. 
LOL, you are funny.
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Mark
7/3/2015 1:27:39 PM
Mark Marks wrote:
> > So my 99,9% are not far off.
> 
> You are funny.
I thought I could have the last word and you would not reply anymore?
Oh well...
Anyway, your attempts to deride me in order to win this discussion
don't work.
As Jeff showed, it was not a made up number. The number I gave, 99.9%,
was a number I calculated a while ago, in a similar discussion. You can
easily do the math yourself. There are no more than a few thousand
people who actively use these newsgroups. The number of users of
Embarcadero products is vastly higher.
So do your maths.
-- 
Rudy Velthuis        http://www.rvelthuis.de
"It is unbecoming for young men to utter maxims."
 -- Aristotle (384-322 B.C.)
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Rudy
7/5/2015 4:28:22 PM
Carl Olsen wrote:
> > As you put it "...we are not that important, here.", that is
> > unfortunate and short sighted.
> 
> Mark - You understand this perfectly.  I wish Embarcadero did.  User
> to user forums are sometimes the only way to get answers to the
> important questions that are needed in order to be an effective
> Delphi user. 
If we take the number Jeff Overcash gave, then only 0.5% of Delphi
users are on these forums. Do you really think all others are not
"effective Delphi users"?
-- 
Rudy Velthuis        http://www.rvelthuis.de
"You have not converted a man because you have silenced him."
 -- John Morley
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Rudy
7/5/2015 4:28:53 PM
> {quote:title=Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:}{quote}
> As Jeff wrote, it is below 0.5%. If you do the math (number of people
> writing here divided by number of people using the product), it is
> probably even less. So my 99,9% are not far off.

The relevant number is not the number of posters, but the number of readers.
 I can't believe that the moderators of these groups are making the argument that it's OK to have newsgroups nearly unusable for 6 months because they are irrelevant and inconsequential.  Even if it were true, which it is not, it would be inexcusably bad PR.
Over the years, many people have accessed these groups to find out:
1.  What 3rd party tools are coming out and what people think of them
2.  What is new and cool in Delphi
3.  What the best Delphi minds (certainly including TeamB there) think about the latest IT and Delphi developments
4.  How do I .... Google will bring me increasingly to slashdot, but the forums in their heyday were indispensable.  Peter Below is the Delphi Siri.
Often the first thing I do when exploring new technology is go to the vendor's forums.  How many people are posting, and how vitriolic is the tone?  What would potential customers think if they visit these Embarcadero forums in their present state?
-Jim
0
Jim
7/5/2015 6:29:09 PM
Jim Gallagher wrote:
>> {quote:title=Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:}{quote}
> 
>> As Jeff wrote, it is below 0.5%. If you do the math (number of people
>> writing here divided by number of people using the product), it is
>> probably even less. So my 99,9% are not far off.
> 
> 
> The relevant number is not the number of posters, but the number of readers.
> 
That number includes readers.  Remember these forums require you to log in even 
to read.
>  I can't believe that the moderators of these groups are making the argument that it's OK to have newsgroups nearly unusable for 6 months because they are irrelevant and inconsequential.  Even if it were true, which it is not, it would be inexcusably bad PR.
> 
No where have we.  We have countered the argument that these are such critical 
resources that it is detrimental to the business to not have them working.
All of us have said repeatedly we want them working fine and most of us have 
said the community forums that ate web only are not a viable alternative.
We want a working NNTP set of forums.  Period.
-- 
Jeff Overcash (TeamB)
       (Please do not email me directly unless  asked. Thank You)
And so I patrol in the valley of the shadow of the tricolor
I must fear evil. For I am but mortal and mortals can only die.
Asking questions, pleading answers from the nameless
faceless watchers that stalk the carpeted  corridors of Whitehall.
              (Fish)
0
Jeff
7/5/2015 8:08:17 PM
> {quote:title=Jeff Overcash (TeamB) wrote:}{quote}
> 
> That number includes readers.  Remember these forums require you to log in even 
> to read.
That is a mind-blowing statistic, to be sure.  However, my company owns four or five licenses, of which only one is being used.  I have to believe that if it were possible to compute the number of *active* Delphi users, the percentage of forum visitors would be much higher.
> 
> We want a working NNTP set of forums.  Period.
> 
From your mouth to Embarcadero's ear...  I completely agree.  Thanks for the reply.
-Jim
0
Jim
7/5/2015 11:20:21 PM
Jim Gallagher wrote:
> > {quote:title=Jeff Overcash (TeamB) wrote:}{quote}
> > 
> > That number includes readers.  Remember these forums require you to
> > log in even to read.
> 
> That is a mind-blowing statistic, to be sure.  However, my company
> owns four or five licenses, of which only one is being used.  I have
> to believe that if it were possible to compute the number of active
> Delphi users, the percentage of forum visitors would be much higher.
It is possible, for Embarcadero, to know the nubmer of activated
licenses. As I said, if we disregard a licenses like someone using
Delphi 2 on his old Win95 machine, it is more or less the number of
active users.
-- 
Rudy Velthuis        http://www.rvelthuis.de
Cropp's Law: The amount of work done varies inversely with the
amount of time spent in the office.
0
Rudy
7/6/2015 1:12:07 AM
Jim Gallagher wrote:
>  I can't believe that the moderators of these groups are making the
> argument that it's OK to have newsgroups nearly unusable for 6 months
No one is doing that. I merely pointed out that not as many users are
affected as some seem to think.
-- 
Rudy Velthuis        http://www.rvelthuis.de
"Every man is guilty of all the good he didn't do."
 -- Voltaire
0
Rudy
7/6/2015 1:14:47 AM
Jeff Overcash (TeamB) wrote:
> We want a working NNTP set of forums.  Period.
Indeed, indeed. +1e10.
-- 
Rudy Velthuis        http://www.rvelthuis.de
"A radioactive cat has eighteen half-lives." -- Unknown
0
Rudy
7/6/2015 1:15:42 AM
> {quote:title=Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:}{quote}
> It is possible, for Embarcadero, to know the nubmer of activated
> licenses. As I said, if we disregard a licenses like someone using
> Delphi 2 on his old Win95 machine, it is more or less the number of
> active users.
> 
My company has five, all activated, but we are only using one currently (Delphi is not an approved technology for new projects, alas).  So, if I include my personal license, there are six licenses: five ghosts  and one actual current user.  I think it is probably quite common to have a large number of previously activated licenses that are no longer being used (I never use my Visual C++).  
The numbers I've heard  (millions), are a little vague on the details, so I suppose neither of us actually know how many people are using Delphi in the real world.  Are the Embarcadero numbers counting people who registered Delphi 2007 and who may have moved on to C# or Java?  I suppose that the Embarcadero numbers are based on revenue, which is important to their bottom line, but not to this discussion.

-Jim
0
Jim
7/6/2015 4:09:00 AM
> {quote:title=Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:}{quote}
> As Jeff wrote, it is below 0.5%. If you do the math (number of people
> writing here divided by number of people using the product), it is
> probably even less. So my 99,9% are not far off. 

So... Assuming only 0.5% of the user base is a member of these forums... and maybe 1% of these are on-line simultaneously... and yet the system buckles under this load... either Embarcadero must have a colossal user base or something was implemented very poorly.
0
Arthur
7/6/2015 8:51:27 AM
Arthur Hoornweg wrote:
> > {quote:title=Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:}{quote}
> 
> > As Jeff wrote, it is below 0.5%. If you do the math (number of
> > people writing here divided by number of people using the product),
> > it is probably even less. So my 99,9% are not far off. 
> 
> 
> So... Assuming only 0.5% of the user base is a member of these
> forums... and maybe 1% of these are on-line simultaneously... and yet
> the system buckles under this load... either Embarcadero must have a
> colossal user base or something was implemented very poorly.
These forums are behaving poorly.
-- 
Regards,
Bruce McGee
Glooscap Software
0
Bruce
7/6/2015 9:28:10 AM
Arthur Hoornweg wrote:
> > {quote:title=Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:}{quote}
> 
> > As Jeff wrote, it is below 0.5%. If you do the math (number of
> > people writing here divided by number of people using the product),
> > it is probably even less. So my 99,9% are not far off. 
> 
> 
> So... Assuming only 0.5% of the user base is a member of these
> forums... and maybe 1% of these are on-line simultaneously... and yet
> the system buckles under this load...
Please remain up to date before you try to make snide remarks.
Remy and Jeff already wrote what happened. It is not the load that is
the problem, it is the corruption of the database that happened because
of a problem with Java, IIRC.
-- 
Rudy Velthuis        http://www.rvelthuis.de
"You can pretend to be serious; you can't pretend to be witty."
 -- Sacha Guitry (1885-1957)
0
Rudy
7/6/2015 9:29:00 AM
> {quote:title=Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:}{quote}
> Please remain up to date before you try to make snide remarks.
> 
> Remy and Jeff already wrote what happened. It is not the load that is
> the problem, it is the corruption of the database that happened because
> of a problem with Java, IIRC.

Whatever the cause, why isn't it being fixed? This is dragging on and on and on.
0
Arthur
7/6/2015 9:40:26 AM
Reply: