developing delphi windows applications on mac os x [Edit]

I want to buy a Macbook Pro  and I was wondering what is your experience developing Delphi applications (and windows apps in general) on mac? 

Do you run windows (xp or vista) using Parallels (or VMware) or do you use the dual boot with BootCamp? If you run Parallels (or VMware) is the compilation speed and speed in general satisfactory? 

If you run Parallels can you read files from the Windows partition from the Mac applications? I read about Macfusion but I was wondering if someone here has used it on a day to day basis to read/write Windows files from mac os x (while both systems are running). 

Thanks
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costa
6/14/2009 7:10:15 AM
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"costa basil" wrote in message news:127288@forums.codegear.com...
>I want to buy a Macbook Pro  and I was wondering what is your experience 
>developing Delphi applications (and windows apps in general) on mac?
>
> Do you run windows (xp or vista) using Parallels (or VMware) or do you use 
> the dual boot with BootCamp? If you run Parallels (or VMware) is the 
> compilation speed and speed in general satisfactory?

I have never understood why Macaholics pay twice as much for a computer's 
hardware and end up using it to run Windows.  Running Windows in a VM does 
result in some degradation of both performance and user experence but 
Macaholics gladly tolerate this degradation as their badge of elitism. :)

The "I don't give a damn" class use Hackintosh "technology" to install Mac 
OS X10.6 on their Windows computers and choose to ignore that part of the 
Mac license that prohibits using the software on hardware not supplied by 
Apple. :(

> If you run Parallels can you read files from the Windows partition from 
> the Mac applications? I read about Macfusion but I was wondering if 
> someone here has used it on a day to day basis to read/write Windows files 
> from mac os x (while both systems are running).

http://www.ntfs-3g.org/
http://www.acutesystems.com/scrtm.htm
0
John
6/14/2009 9:22:28 AM
Thanks for your answer.

Please note that I do not want this thread to get into the mac vs. windows religious debate.

I am interested in finding out:

1. If it is possible, while running windows in vmware or parallels, to read/write files on the windows partition from a mac app. I want to get the confirmation from a person that has done that. Example: can I run eclipse on mac and compile code that is on the windows partition?

2. If the performance penalty is tolerable. For instance, I would not find it tolerable if when typing in a windows app (again running in vmware or parallels) the characters appear in the window with a lag. Or if when designing UI in Delphi dragging components visually have a lag or as if it was done in slow motion. I am trying to get a sense of the performance penalty when it comes to operations such as typing, designing stuff visually - delphi or some other software such as visual studio 2008.

Thanks!
0
costa
6/14/2009 9:40:39 PM
And I've never understood ridiculous posts like yours.  I didn't buy a Mac to run Windows.  I use virtualization because I have to do some development on Windows variants but do everything else on my Mac.  I use virtualization on Windows to run develop in different versions of Windows as well.  Was I being "elitist" by insisting on running Windows 2000 or Windows XP to develop on Windows 98 in a VM?  I also use virtualization to do things on Linux variants.  

As for using a Mac, I simply prefer it to Windows in the same way I prefer any other product over their competition I didn't choose.  I also choose to abide by the wishes of the vendor I buy things from rather than arrogantly cast their wishes aside.  Kind of a "do unto others as you would have other do unto you" sort of thing...
0
Ron
6/14/2009 10:41:04 PM
> 2. If the performance penalty is tolerable. For instance, I would not find it tolerable if when typing in a windows app (again running in vmware or parallels) the characters appear in the window with a lag. Or if when designing UI in Delphi dragging components visually have a lag or as if it was done in slow motion. I am trying to get a sense of the performance penalty when it comes to operations such as typing, designing stuff visually - delphi or some other software such as visual studio 2008.


I haven't had any slow motion problems or typing issues.  Delphi has always run well for me, but I do notice Winforms development in Visual Studio 2008 using complex DevExpress components as slower than without a VM.  Hasn't been enough for me to want to change how I do things, though.

-Ron
0
Ron
6/14/2009 10:51:45 PM
John Cash wrote:

> I have never understood why Macaholics pay twice as much for a
> computer's hardware and end up using it to run Windows.

In my case the reason is that because Apple controls both the hardware
and software they can make the two run more reliably and seamlessly
than what happens with Windows on the wide variety of hardware that MS
must support. All the systems functions "just work". After using
Windows all these years as a typical user/developer I finaly got tired
of the driver failures, various incompatibilities, etc.

Yes, you can sometimes find certain hardware models combined with
certain Windows editions that work fine. But when you add a peripheral,
or update a driver, or update Windows, itself, even today you sometimes
find something broken.

BTW, the "twice the price" statement is flat out wrong. It is more like
a 20% premium and I gladly paid it to get a cleaner situation and
trouble-free usage.
0
Doug
6/14/2009 11:39:38 PM
costa basil wrote:

>  Example: can I run eclipse on mac and compile code that is on the
> windows partition?

I am just starting to investigate similar scenarios myself, and it
certainly seems to be possible. The route you take may change depending
on your needs, however.

Using both VMWare Fusion and Parallels, I have been able to
successfully set up a Windows virtual machine that can be shared across
different Mac user accounts. Both of these allow you to map your OS X
user documents folder to your Windows user documents one, as well as
configure custom shared document locations. It seems that this should
do what you want.

One thing I have noted so far is that the mapping of the Windows->Mac
Documents folder on VMWare seems to be tied to the user account of the
user making this setting. IOW, the mapping is made to users/<last user
to set>/Documents, meaning that if another user runs the Windows VM,
they are denied access to the documents folder from Windows. The only
way around this I've found so far is for the new user to disable and
re-enable this setting, which seems to change the mapping to their Mac
documents folder. In this regard, Parallels (at least so far) seems to
handle a multi-user environment better, with this mapping changing
depending on which user is running the VM.

I have also read that it is possible for a user to suspend a Parallels
VM under their account and have another user resume it. This does not
seem possible under VMWare, with their official FAQ regarding sharing
VMs stating that using suspended VMs across multiple user accounts will
not work (and my testing has confirmed this).

-- 
Cheers,
David Clegg
dclegg@gmail.com
http://cc.codegear.com/Author/72299

QualityCentral. The best way to bug CodeGear about bugs.
http://qc.codegear.com
0
David
6/15/2009 12:11:54 AM
costa basil wrote:
> I want to buy a Macbook Pro  and I was wondering what is your experience developing Delphi applications (and windows apps in general) on mac? 
> 
> Do you run windows (xp or vista) using Parallels (or VMware) or do you use the dual boot with BootCamp? If you run Parallels (or VMware) is the compilation speed and speed in general satisfactory? 
> 
> If you run Parallels can you read files from the Windows partition from the Mac applications? I read about Macfusion but I was wondering if someone here has used it on a day to day basis to read/write Windows files from mac os x (while both systems are running). 
> 
> Thanks

I've a MacPro and I run Delphi 2009 under bootcamp (Windows XP) as well 
as under Fusion. (Windows XP).
I usually boot into Windows with bootcamp for my Delphi work and find 
that it works very well.
I use Fusion when I want to run Delphi when ever I'm running in OS 10.6 
as a test bed.

I can read and write to any MAC drive or directory from Windows under 
Bootcamp.

I find the speed under Fusion to be at least the same as running under 
bootcamp, but then my Fusion set up is 'bare-bones' containing only 
Delphi 2009.

Peter
0
Peter
6/15/2009 12:34:00 AM
"Doug Chamberlin"  wrote:
> John Cash wrote:
>
>> I have never understood why Macaholics pay twice as much for a
>> computer's hardware and end up using it to run Windows.
>
> In my case the reason is that because Apple controls both the hardware
> and software they can make the two run more reliably and seamlessly
> than what happens with Windows...

I often see this as the reason folks like yourself prefer Macs and I wonder 
what would be your and the general markets reaction if Microsoft's hardware 
division branded a line of premium quality computers on which they had 
complete control over the hardware and software (drivers, etc)? :)

http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/


> ... on the wide variety of hardware that MS
> must support. All the systems functions "just work". After using
> Windows all these years as a typical user/developer I finaly got tired
> of the driver failures, various incompatibilities, etc.

Like it or not, Microsoft's concept of "Windows Everywhere" has resulted in 
a one billion Windows installed base that fostered the large worldwide 
Delphi developers community. Isn't it incredible that the Delphi toolset 
exposes most of those one billion computers to our developer community!

> Yes, you can sometimes find certain hardware models combined with
> certain Windows editions that work fine. But when you add a peripheral,
> or update a driver, or update Windows, itself, even today you sometimes
> find something broken.

And this never happens on any of the 75 million Mac computers? ;-)

> BTW, the "twice the price" statement is flat out wrong. It is more like
> a 20% premium and I gladly paid it to get a cleaner situation and
> trouble-free usage.

IMO the actual differential is somewhere between your 20% and my twice the 
price. I'm reminded of the recent MS TV ad in which young Stephanie had only 
$1000 to spend on a 17" laptop to take to college. :)
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John
6/15/2009 2:18:55 AM
John Cash wrote:

> "Doug Chamberlin"  wrote:
> > John Cash wrote:
> > 
> >> I have never understood why Macaholics pay twice as much for a
> >> computer's hardware and end up using it to run Windows.
> > 
> > In my case the reason is that because Apple controls both the
> > hardware and software they can make the two run more reliably and
> > seamlessly than what happens with Windows...
> 
> I often see this as the reason folks like yourself prefer Macs and I
> wonder what would be your and the general markets reaction if
> Microsoft's hardware division branded a line of premium quality
> computers on which they had complete control over the hardware and
> software (drivers, etc)? :)
> 
> http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/

It's not that I *prefer* Macs. It's just that they work better.

I'd love to see a more stable Windows hw + sw combination.

> > Yes, you can sometimes find certain hardware models combined with
> > certain Windows editions that work fine. But when you add a
> > peripheral, or update a driver, or update Windows, itself, even
> > today you sometimes find something broken.
> 
> And this never happens on any of the 75 million Mac computers? ;-)

Not nearly as often. With over a year of use it has never happened to
me.

> > BTW, the "twice the price" statement is flat out wrong. It is more
> > like a 20% premium and I gladly paid it to get a cleaner situation
> > and trouble-free usage.
> 
> IMO the actual differential is somewhere between your 20% and my
> twice the price. I'm reminded of the recent MS TV ad in which young
> Stephanie had only $1000 to spend on a 17" laptop to take to college.
> :)

Yeah, those are really fair, aren't they? I like the one where she is
shopping for a $2000 laptop and the Macbook Pro is rejected because it
only has 2GB RAM standard. No mention that to bring it to 4GB RAM would
cost, what, another $40? Nor a mention that the other Windows-based
laptops also do not come with more than 2GB RAM standard.



--
0
Doug
6/15/2009 3:51:08 AM
> Yeah, those are really fair, aren't they? I like the one where she is
> shopping for a $2000 laptop and the Macbook Pro is rejected because it
> only has 2GB RAM standard. No mention that to bring it to 4GB RAM would
> cost, what, another $40? Nor a mention that the other Windows-based
> laptops also do not come with more than 2GB RAM standard.

Don't know about that RAM upgrade price.  I was shocked, shocked!, when I went to look at the options for the latest models and saw if you want the 4GB to 8GB RAM upgrade it was an extra $1,000.  You could get the 24" cinema display for $899, $101 less than a lousy 4GB extra RAM.  I suppose they wanted to give Microsoft another shot at a commercial.  Some guy or gal doing an online config at Dell or Apple.  Say they want a lot of RAM for photo and video editing.  Anyhow, it's ridiculous...
0
Ron
6/15/2009 4:06:51 AM
Interesting enough here are the prices on crucial.com

Apple: $799.99 (8GB ddr3)
http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.aspx?model=MacBook%20Pro%203.06GHz%20Intel%20Core%202%20Duo%20(17-inch%20DDR3)%20Mid-2009

Dell XPS M1730: $359.99 (8GB ddr2):
http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.aspx?model=XPS%20M1730

But I think the prices will come down eventually.
0
costa
6/15/2009 6:17:39 AM
"Doug Chamberlin" wrote:
> John Cash wrote:
>>
>> And this never happens on any of the 75 million Mac computers? ;-)
>
> Not nearly as often. With over a year of use it has never happened to
> me.

Nor with me...

>> IMO the actual differential is somewhere between your 20% and my
>> twice the price. I'm reminded of the recent MS TV ad in which young
>> Stephanie had only $1000 to spend on a 17" laptop to take to college.
>> :)
>
> Yeah, those are really fair, aren't they? I like the one where she is
> shopping for a $2000 laptop and the Macbook Pro is rejected because it
> only has 2GB RAM standard. No mention that to bring it to 4GB RAM would
> cost, what, another $40? Nor a mention that the other Windows-based
> laptops also do not come with more than 2GB RAM standard.

To be fair I was wrong, she was named Lauren not Stephanie. :)

She wasn't shopping for a $2000 laptop, her budget was to spend no more than 
$1000 for a 17" laptop. In the ad  she rejected the Apple Store's under 
$1000 MacBook because it only has a 13" screen. .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIS6G-HvnkU

BTW The Apple site says it costs $100 to upgrade a MacBook from 2GB to 4GB 
memory at time of ordering

http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MC240LL/A?mco=NjcxMTQ3Ng

As for whats "standard" ram in Windows computers, yesterday I got in the 
mail a Fathers Day gift flyer from Wal*Mart that features 3 computers. A 
Dell Inspriron 1545 laptop with 14.6" display, 3GB memory, 160GB harddrive 
and DVD burner for $398. A HP Pavillion dv2-1039wm with 4GB memory for $798. 
A Dell Studio One 19 All-in-One Desktop with 18.5" touch screen display and 
4GB memory for $848.

So who is being "really fair", you or Lauren in the TV ad? ;-)
0
John
6/15/2009 7:13:28 AM
> {quote:title=costa basil wrote:}{quote}
> I want to buy a Macbook Pro  and I was wondering what is your experience developing Delphi applications (and windows apps in 
> general) on mac? 
> 

My personal experience has been limited to using VMWare Fusion.
But since I don't do much Delphi work (Oxygene/Prism not counting), I almost exclusively used VS 2005/2008 in Fusion.

Delphi 7 works without virtualization and without Windows license. You just have to download DarWine and put it in your applications folder. From then on, OSX will know that it can run .exe files using DarWine.
Later versions of Delphi were hosting the .Net runtime which is not supported by Wine.
I didn't really use it heavily, actually I just ran it to check if it worked. And it did run pretty good (haven't found an issue)

So, if you're using D7, then you wouldn't have to run a virtualization software at all.
If you have to use a VM, then the most annoying things will not be performance (as the MacBook Pro has plenty of that, even my 2007 non-Pro runs VS *very* smooth), it is the mixture of Mac and Windows hotkeys that might drive you insane eventually.
0
Robert
6/15/2009 8:56:32 AM
> {quote:title=John Cash wrote:}{quote}
> 
> I have never understood why Macaholics pay twice as much for a computer's 
> hardware and end up using it to run Windows.  Running Windows in a VM does 
> result in some degradation of both performance and user experence but 
> Macaholics gladly tolerate this degradation as their badge of elitism. :)
> 

And I never understood why someone feels the need to defend a corporation that doesn't give a rat's ass about him.
Except maybe John is an Apple employee. Sent here to make MSFT look even more pathetic than we Mac converts already think of them. ;-)
Serious though, the "Robin Hood - Savior of the big evil Software empire" tour is getting old...
0
Robert
6/15/2009 9:01:21 AM
> {quote:title=costa basil wrote:}{quote}
> I want to buy a Macbook Pro  and I was wondering what is your experience developing Delphi applications (and windows apps in general) on mac? 
> 
> Do you run windows (xp or vista) using Parallels (or VMware) or do you use the dual boot with BootCamp? If you run Parallels (or VMware) is the compilation speed and speed in general satisfactory? 
> 
> If you run Parallels can you read files from the Windows partition from the Mac applications? I read about Macfusion but I was wondering if someone here has used it on a day to day basis to read/write Windows files from mac os x (while both systems are running). 
> 
> Thanks

I also develop on the Mac and Windows. Bootcamp is really nice but you have to log off your Mac and then boot into Windows which means you can't have interaction between these two. What I have done is that I have one PC and a Mac. I have one monitor. I have plugged both computers to the same monitor but if you have two monitors, then that's even better. I have created a shared folder on my Windows machine and I send stuff to these computers through that shared folder. I can have both machines on at the sa
me time, do some 3dsmax on the PC and send it to the Mac. You can also use smb on the Mac to share folders with your Windows machine or if you want, you can also remote connect to your Windows/Mac through whichever of these machines.
0
Vandad
6/15/2009 10:26:34 AM
"Robert Giesecke" wrote:
>> {quote:title=John Cash wrote:}{quote}
>>
>> I have never understood why Macaholics pay twice as much for a computer's
>> hardware and end up using it to run Windows.  Running Windows in a VM 
>> does
>> result in some degradation of both performance and user experence but
>> Macaholics gladly tolerate this degradation as their badge of elitism. :)
>>
>
> And I never understood why someone feels the need to defend a corporation 
> that doesn't give a rat's ass about him.
> Except maybe John is an Apple employee. Sent here to make MSFT look even 
> more pathetic than we Mac converts already think of them. ;-)

I'm not an Apple employee (nor a MSFT employee)! The "pay twice as much" is 
an obvious rhetorical exaggeration but do you deny that Macs cost more than 
Windows PCs? Do you deny that "running Windows in a VM does result in some 
degradation of both performance and user experience"? As a Mac convert are 
you denying reality? ;-)

> Serious though, the "Robin Hood - Savior of the big evil Software empire" 
> tour is getting old...

As is "Death to the big evil Software empire" tour by some Mac converts...
0
John
6/15/2009 1:44:19 PM
<SNIP>
>
> The "I don't give a damn" class use Hackintosh "technology" to install Mac
> OS X10.6 on their Windows computers and choose to ignore that part of the
> Mac license that prohibits using the software on hardware not supplied by
> Apple. :(

Would it be against the Apple license if I purchased an Intel Mac, formatted 
the
hard drive, installed Windows7 and then ran OSX in VMWare?
0
Eddie
6/15/2009 2:11:57 PM
"Eddie Shipman" wrote:
> <SNIP>
>>
>> The "I don't give a damn" class use Hackintosh "technology" to install 
>> Mac
>> OS X10.6 on their Windows computers and choose to ignore that part of the
>> Mac license that prohibits using the software on hardware not supplied by
>> Apple. :(
>
> Would it be against the Apple license if I purchased an Intel Mac, 
> formatted the
> hard drive, installed Windows7 and then ran OSX in VMWare?

That may not be technically feasible since I don't think Mac OSX is a 
supported guest operating system in VMware Workstation. :)
0
John
6/15/2009 2:48:32 PM
"John Cash" <JohnJ@nada.com> wrote in message 
news:127413@forums.codegear.com...
>
> I often see this as the reason folks like yourself prefer Macs and I 
> wonder
> what would be your and the general markets reaction if Microsoft's 
> hardware
> division branded a line of premium quality computers on which they had
> complete control over the hardware and software (drivers, etc)? :)
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/

They would all cry out against Microsoft's obvious intent to monopolize that 
market and run Apple out of business and the DOJ would immediately launch 
antitrust actions against them - precisely due to the fact that a *lot* of 
people would happily buy them.

(I wish I was kidding)

-- 
Wayne Niddery - TeamB (www.teamb.com)
Tips to Get Published: http://dn.codegear.com/article/38467
Winwright, Inc. (www.winwright.ca)
0
Wayne
6/15/2009 4:53:07 PM
> {quote:title=costa basil wrote:}{quote}
> I want to buy a Macbook Pro  and I was wondering what is your experience developing 
> Delphi applications (and windows apps in general) on mac? 
> 

Greetings,
Not really interested in the mac vs windows discussion, but perhaps I have something different and worthwhile to add. I have been programming exclusively in VMs running under VMWare Player for 18 months and I really love the experience. My development VMs are Windows 2000 and Windows XP Pro, and I run the VMs on top of Windows 2000, XP and Vista. My testing is also done in VMs so I can restore the environment effortlessly. Conceivably, I could be using OSX or Linux as a host as well. My host OS is used pr
imarily for email, web browsing, itunes and personal use. (And I program in Delphi 2007 and Delphi 6 Pro.)

I absolutely love developing and testing in VMs. It isn't perfect, and I have had a few mouse ghosting problems, but the ability to restore the development environment in a few minutes is fantastic. Better yet, my laptop hard drive crashed the other day and I was able to restore the development VM to a desktop while waiting for the replacement harddrive. I then copied the latest code from my SVN server and was up and running in less than 20 minutes (most of the delay was from copying the 12GB VM) I contin
ued to work on the desktop in the VM while formatting the new harddrive and installing my base software packages (Firefox, Thunderbird + IMAP Accounts, MS Office, etc...) then copied the VM back. Once my laptop was up and running, I checked my code changes into SVN from the desktop and switched back to the laptop. Total downtime (in terms of programming hours) was perhaps 2 hours. I am now looking into cloning my host OSs using Clonezilla which may have reduced my total downtime to less than 30 minutes.

So I really recommend using VMs for development, especially when using a RAD tool like Delphi or Codegear where setting up 3rd party tools and paths used to take me a full day on a clean system. I can see it working well on OSX, I continue to stick with windows as the host OS for two reasons. 1) I use my own software daily, and I have no interest in an OS where I can't develop RAD tools natively as I can in Delphi. 2) I don't gain anything personally by switching to mac and I lose too much.

Good luck with the VMs, I think your choice may work well for you.
Scott
0
Scott
6/15/2009 8:16:59 PM
John Cash wrote:

> To be fair I was wrong, she was named Lauren not Stephanie. :)
> 
> She wasn't shopping for a $2000 laptop, her budget was to spend no
> more than $1000 for a 17" laptop. In the ad  she rejected the Apple
> Store's under $1000 MacBook because it only has a 13" screen. .
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIS6G-HvnkU
> 
> BTW The Apple site says it costs $100 to upgrade a MacBook from 2GB
> to 4GB memory at time of ordering

I was referring to a different ad. She says something like "This is the
fastest Mac... but it only has 2GB RAM...<frown>...<move on>". That's
all the consideration Macs get in that ad.

The $100 for memory upgrade is about what we've been seeing from the
original manufacturer for a few years. If you buy the chips yourself
and put them in it costs much less. Same for PC manufacturers. That's
where I got the $40 - from the last time I bought 2 2GB dimms.

Anyway, I'm not saying *I'm fair*, I'm just saying the ad is so
obviously and highly biased toward the PC purchase you might think it
is a political spot! :)
0
Doug
6/15/2009 9:23:43 PM
"Doug Chamberlin" wrote:
> John Cash wrote:
>
>> To be fair I was wrong, she was named Lauren not Stephanie. :)
>>
>> She wasn't shopping for a $2000 laptop, her budget was to spend no
>> more than $1000 for a 17" laptop. In the ad  she rejected the Apple
>> Store's under $1000 MacBook because it only has a 13" screen. .
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIS6G-HvnkU
....
> I was referring to a different ad. She says something like "This is the
> fastest Mac... but it only has 2GB RAM...<frown>...<move on>". That's
> all the consideration Macs get in that ad.

I've never seen or heard of the ad you describe, do you or anyone else have 
a URL that references that ad?

> Anyway, I'm not saying *I'm fair*, I'm just saying the ad is so
> obviously and highly biased toward the PC purchase you might think it
> is a political spot! :)

What the hell do you think is the purpose of a product ad, to boost your 
confidence in the other guy's product? :)
0
John
6/15/2009 10:38:21 PM
"John Cash" <JohnJ@nada.com> wrote in message 
news:127818@forums.codegear.com...
> "Doug Chamberlin" wrote:
>> John Cash wrote:
>>
>>> To be fair I was wrong, she was named Lauren not Stephanie. :)
>>>
>>> She wasn't shopping for a $2000 laptop, her budget was to spend no
>>> more than $1000 for a 17" laptop. In the ad  she rejected the Apple
>>> Store's under $1000 MacBook because it only has a 13" screen. .
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIS6G-HvnkU
> ...
>> I was referring to a different ad. She says something like "This is the
>> fastest Mac... but it only has 2GB RAM...<frown>...<move on>". That's
>> all the consideration Macs get in that ad.
>
> I've never seen or heard of the ad you describe, do you or anyone else 
> have
> a URL that references that ad?

OK, I found it!

http://www.edibleapple.com/microsoft-continues-to-attack-apple-on-price-in-latest-ad/

The girl in this ad is named Shelia...

>> Anyway, I'm not saying *I'm fair*, I'm just saying the ad is so
>> obviously and highly biased toward the PC purchase you might think it
>> is a political spot! :)
>
> What the hell do you think is the purpose of a product ad, to boost your
> confidence in the other guy's product? :)

Don't know when that ad appeared but I just looked on Apple's site and the 
current 15" MacBook Pro price is $1,999 (2.66 GHz model), so it's a dollar 
under Shelia's limit of $2, 000. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APQv8JTKM9A&feature=player_embedded

It does have 4GB installed DDR3 1066MHz SDRAM - 2x2GB modules. To increase 
the memory to 8GB ( 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x4GB modules costs an additional 
$1,000 (same as someone else pointed out).

http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MB985LL/A?mco=NjcxMTU1Mg

That memory upgrade cost is a far cry from the approximately $40 you thought 
it would cost to increase from 2GB to 4GM RAM of the MacBook Pro that Shelia 
rejected as not having enough RAM. ;-)

To be fair, as you pointed out, $40 is kinda typical for 4GB (2x2GB) of 
memory however DDR3 RAM is considerably more expensive than is DDR2 memory. 
I recently paid $139 for a 8GB matched set of 4x2GB of 1100MHz (5,5,5,15 
timing) made by GSkill. About $50 of that was for factory matching of the 4 
modules so that they will sync together at the specified speed and timing.
0
John
6/16/2009 3:44:06 AM
"John Cash" <JohnJ@nada.com> wrote in message 
news:127553@forums.codegear.com...

> I'm not an Apple employee (nor a MSFT employee)! The "pay twice as much" 
> is
> an obvious rhetorical exaggeration but do you deny that Macs cost more 
> than
> Windows PCs? Do you deny that "running Windows in a VM does result in some
> degradation of both performance and user experience"? As a Mac convert are
> you denying reality? ;-)

They all do, and its well documented:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_distortion_field :-)

I know guys who still argue that PowerPC CPUs are still the best even though 
Apple have long since moved over to PC hardware (apart from the fancy 
expensive cases).

CB
0
Charles
6/16/2009 10:37:10 AM
Reply:

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