Delphi XE2-based products in Apple's App Store are...

I'm curious who will be the first to have a Delphi-based product for sale in Apple's App Store, and what it will be.

It would also be good to have a list here of such apps so people can see what is being done with Delphi XE2.
0
David
9/24/2011 10:38:56 PM
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> {quote:title=David Schwartz wrote:}{quote}
> I'm curious who will be the first to have a Delphi-based product for sale in Apple's App Store, and what it will be.
> 
> It would also be good to have a list here of such apps so people can see what is being done with Delphi XE2.

Here are some apps that I believe were created with [Free] Pascal and are available from the Mac App Store (the last two were developed with Lazarus):

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/taskcard/id411832628?mt=12

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/jigsaws-galore/id426250075?mt=12

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/earmaster-pro/id412626299?mt=12


Also, here's an article that might also be useful in addition to Apple's guidelines for helping developers excise Window-isms from their Mac programs. Although some of solutions presented in this article are specific to Lazarus, the issues identified probably apply to any cross-platform development system:

http://web.me.com/macpgmr/ObjP/MacXPlatform_Part8.html

Thanks.

-Phil
0
Phil
9/24/2011 11:10:34 PM
So these were built entirely with Delphi XE2?
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David
9/24/2011 11:24:01 PM
> {quote:title=David Schwartz wrote:}{quote}
> So these were built entirely with Delphi XE2?

XE2 was not used at all; they've been available for a while.

They give a flavor of the sort of things Pascal developers are working on. I believe one or two were ports from Delphi / Windows.

Thanks.

-Phil
0
Phil
9/24/2011 11:27:28 PM
> so people can see what is being done with Delphi XE2.

I didn't say "Delphi XE2" because I'm curious what apps may have been written in Pascal any more than I care what's been written in Xcode or c++.

I asked because I'm curious about experiences people have had getting apps developed in XE2 into the App Store, and how they're capitalizing on the cross-platform and FireMonkey aspects (among others) that XE2 brings to the table.
0
David
9/25/2011 12:22:10 AM
On 2011-09-24 19:10:34 -0400, Phil Hess <> said:

> (the last two were developed with Lazarus):

Yeah, you can really tell.  They might be great applications, but look 
little more than Windows apps running inside a Cocoa window.

--
Kevin Powick
0
Kevin
9/25/2011 1:19:05 AM
Hi,

> {quote:title=Kevin Powick wrote:}{quote}
> On 2011-09-24 19:10:34 -0400, Phil Hess <> said:
> 
> > (the last two were developed with Lazarus):
> 
> Yeah, you can really tell.  They might be great applications, but look 
> little more than Windows apps running inside a Cocoa window.
> 
> --
> Kevin Powick

I think it's interesting that as we start moving deeper into developing application for the Mac, that we (as an area of importance) are starting to place more emphasis on good UI design than when we were just plain old Windows developers :-)

Cheers,
Colin
0
Colin
9/27/2011 3:36:47 AM
On 2011-09-27 04:36:47 +0100, Colin Johnsun said:

> I think it's interesting that as we start moving deeper into developing 
> application for the Mac, that we (as an area of importance) are 
> starting to place more emphasis on good UI design than when we were 
> just plain old Windows developers :-)

Which is why I have always been highly sceptical of cross-platform 
widget sets like Qt, etc. I remain to be convinced that Fire Monkey 
will be any better.

The usual Windows idea of displaying hierarchical data in a tree view 
is often replaced in Cocoa by the NSBrowser widget, which displays the 
hierarchy in multiple columns, one for each level.

Cocoa provides for document modal dialog sheets, which drop out of the 
title bar of a window and which are only modal to the current document, 
not the entire app.

Then you have little oddities like the order of OK and Cancel buttons, 
which differs between the two platforms.

Oh, and you rarely find Cocoa apps with ribbon toolbars :-)

Joanna

-- 
Joanna Carter
Carter Consulting
0
Joanna
9/27/2011 10:06:36 AM
Joanna Carter wrote:

> On 2011-09-27 04:36:47 +0100, Colin Johnsun said:
> 
> > I think it's interesting that as we start moving deeper into
> > developing application for the Mac, that we (as an area of
> > importance) are starting to place more emphasis on good UI design
> > than when we were just plain old Windows developers :-)
> 
> Which is why I have always been highly sceptical of cross-platform 
> widget sets like Qt, etc. I remain to be convinced that Fire Monkey 
> will be any better.

One can also do good UI design if one doesn't follow Apple's guidelines
or use Apple's built-in controls. Perhaps even better, since I don't
find Apple's UI design too overwhelming.

The person designing the UI is far more important than the tools
available, IME.
-- 
Rudy Velthuis

"I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as
 members." -- Groucho Marx
0
Rudy
9/27/2011 11:25:25 AM
Am 27.09.2011 12:06, schrieb Joanna Carter:
> On 2011-09-27 04:36:47 +0100, Colin Johnsun said:
> 
>> I think it's interesting that as we start moving deeper into developing 
>> application for the Mac, that we (as an area of importance) are 
>> starting to place more emphasis on good UI design than when we were 
>> just plain old Windows developers :-)
> 
> Which is why I have always been highly sceptical of cross-platform 
> widget sets like Qt, etc. I remain to be convinced that Fire Monkey 
> will be any better.
> 
> The usual Windows idea of displaying hierarchical data in a tree view 
> is often replaced in Cocoa by the NSBrowser widget, which displays the 
> hierarchy in multiple columns, one for each level.
> 

That might well be, but also has his drawbacks: especially when the
level gets higher and higher your screen ends...

Greetings

Markus
0
Markus
9/27/2011 6:13:12 PM
> The usual Windows idea of displaying hierarchical data in a tree view 
> is often replaced in Cocoa by the NSBrowser widget, which displays the 
> hierarchy in multiple columns, one for each level.

If the window isn't already big enough to avoid it, I'm finding this control rather annoying, since the auto-scrolling gives the sense of the display moving under my feet

> Cocoa provides for document modal dialog sheets, which drop out of the 
> title bar of a window and which are only modal to the current document, 
> not the entire app.

You've mentioned that a few times, but I'm still not sure what the big deal is - the distinction between 'modal to the current document' and 'modal to the current application' only sometimes exists, and even when it does, what 'application' means at the programming level and what it means at the user level can differ to the extent of making the original distinction moot. E.g., if I open a couple of tabs in Safari then go to Bookmarks|Add Bookmark (*not* 'Add Bookmarks for These 2 Tabs'), I find the whole 
window gets frozen rather than just the current tab. Since the position of a modal sheet appears to be fixed, this makes the situation worse than on Windows, where you can at least move a modal dialog out the way to see something it's currently obscuring.
0
Chris
9/27/2011 6:18:48 PM
> {quote:title=Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:}{quote}
> Joanna Carter wrote:
> 
> > On 2011-09-27 04:36:47 +0100, Colin Johnsun said:
> > 
> > > I think it's interesting that as we start moving deeper into
> > > developing application for the Mac, that we (as an area of
> > > importance) are starting to place more emphasis on good UI design
> > > than when we were just plain old Windows developers :-)
> > 
> > Which is why I have always been highly sceptical of cross-platform 
> > widget sets like Qt, etc. I remain to be convinced that Fire Monkey 
> > will be any better.
> 
> One can also do good UI design if one doesn't follow Apple's guidelines
> or use Apple's built-in controls. Perhaps even better, since I don't
> find Apple's UI design too overwhelming.
> 
> The person designing the UI is far more important than the tools
> available, IME.

Amen.

Dalija Prasnikar
0
Dalija
9/27/2011 6:52:32 PM
"Joanna Carter" wrote:
>
> Oh, and you rarely find Cocoa apps with ribbon toolbars :-)

If FireMonkey would ape the VCL ribbon menu toolbar component then OS X 
developers could build apps with a much improved UI. ;-)
0
John
9/27/2011 8:03:30 PM
On 2011-09-27 21:03:30 +0100, John Cash said:

> "Joanna Carter" wrote:
>> 
>> Oh, and you rarely find Cocoa apps with ribbon toolbars :-)
> 
> If FireMonkey would ape the VCL ribbon menu toolbar component then OS X
> developers could build apps with a much improved UI. ;-)

Nyaaaaarrgghhhhhh!!!! Take me away.

Joanna

-- 
Joanna Carter
Carter Consulting
0
Joanna
9/27/2011 8:04:34 PM
Hi Joanna,

Given your disdain for non-compliant UIs on the Mac, what are your opinion on successful Mac apps like Delicious Library or 1Password which have gorgeous interfaces but use non-standard custom controls.

As Rudy stated, I think it's more about the design rather than the tools itself and as such there is no reason why you can't build a good UI in FireMonkey to look like native controls or even build custom UIs that emulate real world interactions similar to those being offered by some native Cocoa apps. 

Cheers,
Colin

> {quote:title=Joanna Carter wrote:}{quote}
> On 2011-09-27 21:03:30 +0100, John Cash said:
> 
> > "Joanna Carter" wrote:
> >> 
> >> Oh, and you rarely find Cocoa apps with ribbon toolbars :-)
> > 
> > If FireMonkey would ape the VCL ribbon menu toolbar component then OS X
> > developers could build apps with a much improved UI. ;-)
> 
> Nyaaaaarrgghhhhhh!!!! Take me away.
> 
> Joanna
> 
> -- 
> Joanna Carter
> Carter Consulting
0
Colin
9/28/2011 4:49:02 PM
On 2011-09-28 17:49:02 +0100, Colin Johnsun said:

> Given your disdain for non-compliant UIs on the Mac, what are your 
> opinion on successful Mac apps like Delicious Library or 1Password 
> which have gorgeous interfaces but use non-standard custom controls.

IMO, there is a difference between UI paradigms that go against the 
"ethos" of Cocoa design and controls that might not look like Cocoa 
standard controls but that are intuitive.

Forcing ideas like menus on every window or application-modal dialogs 
instead of document-modal dialogs changes how people expect o use their 
computer. But differing visualisation like the "bookshelf" is 
acceptable, if not slightly tainted by US culture; wooden shelves are 
*so* yesterday :-)

> As Rudy stated, I think it's more about the design rather than the 
> tools itself and as such there is no reason why you can't build a good 
> UI in FireMonkey to look like native controls or even build custom UIs 
> that emulate real world interactions similar to those being offered by 
> some native Cocoa apps.

I would agree with that. It's the little things, like button order, and 
the intrusion of "Windowsisms" that need to be considered

I really, really do not like Microsoft's ribbon toolbars and, as I have 
said elsewhere, is one of the reasons I much prefer Pages as a word 
processor over Word.

Joanna

-- 
Joanna Carter
Carter Consulting
0
Joanna
9/28/2011 5:31:28 PM
> {quote:title=Joanna Carter wrote:}{quote}
> On 2011-09-28 17:49:02 +0100, Colin Johnsun said:
> 
> Forcing ideas like menus on every window or application-modal dialogs 
> instead of document-modal dialogs changes how people expect o use their 
> computer. But differing visualisation like the "bookshelf" is 
> acceptable, if not slightly tainted by US culture; wooden shelves are 
> *so* yesterday :-)
> 

Fair comment. I also agree that UI controls should work as they are meant to in the OS that they reside in. 

> I would agree with that. It's the little things, like button order, and 
> the intrusion of "Windowsisms" that need to be considered

That's an interesting point you make because in the Embarcadero help wiki
(http://docwiki.embarcadero.com/RADStudio/en/Creating_a_FireMonkey_Component), they provide an example of creating a firemonkey dialog button panel component. The example shows that the same component will show the dialog buttons in a different order according to which OS (Win or Mac) is targetted.

> 
> I really, really do not like Microsoft's ribbon toolbars and, as I have 
> said elsewhere, is one of the reasons I much prefer Pages as a word 
> processor over Word.
> 
Again I agree with you, IMO, the ribbon toolbar looks bad enough on the PC but looks really out of place in a Mac app. :-)

-colin
0
Colin
9/30/2011 4:28:49 AM
On 2011-09-30 05:28:49 +0100, Colin Johnsun said:

> That's an interesting point you make because in the Embarcadero help wiki
> (http://docwiki.embarcadero.com/RADStudio/en/Creating_a_FireMonkey_Component), 
> they provide an example of creating a firemonkey dialog button panel 
> component. The example shows that the same component will show the 
> dialog buttons in a different order according to which OS (Win or Mac) 
> is targetted.

It's good to see this kind of thing being demonstrated. Now, it's just 
a matter of getting people to use these techniques of separation and 
encapsulation rather than simply dropping buttons on forms :-)

Joanna

-- 
Joanna Carter
Carter Consulting
0
Joanna
9/30/2011 7:47:23 AM
Reply:

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