Clean Install vs Upgrade - If you are already using DNN how can you do a clean install without upgrading?

With all due respect to everyone!

I have read every post in this forum with regards to performance, etc!  I have read over and over that you need to do a "clean" install of DNN 3.X to achieve the "maximum performance of this new release" - OK fine BUT

Are there any "scripts" to move your data from the DNN data base from prior install (DNN 2.X) to a "clean" installation of DNN3.X   I have certainly not seen any that are available!  Could I be blind?

What am I missing here - that everyone is a developer and has the luxury to do this without any regard to what is currently being conducted?

Mai Pen Rai _________________

Best Regards - Joe Harris


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josun
5/27/2005 11:38:48 AM
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Your only chance is to export (Host => Portals => Export
Template) your portal and the content into a template file and
import it back into the clean install.

Cheers,

DocHoliday



MCSA/MCSE on W2K3, artless DNN operator
0
DocHoliday
5/27/2005 12:04:36 PM
 josun wrote:
I have read every post in this forum with regards to performance, etc!  I have read over and over that you need to do a "clean" install of DNN 3.X to achieve the "maximum performance of this new release"


i guess this is in reference to this post: http://forums.asp.net/938726/ShowPost.aspx (might have been easier if you stayed in that thread .. the subject is still the same). I believe the suggestion that was made in that forum was not about dnn performing better when installed clean, i think it was about testing whether the upgrade is causing some unexpected problems. Installing a fresh copy, on a fresh db will tell you whether something has gone wrong with the upgrade, or whethere something else is going on.

For instance, you said this:
 josun wrote:
Updating a Page - literally takes on a dedicated server with 4g of memory and 247 gig of storage literally 10 - no this is not an error - 10 minutes - IF I AM LUCKY - to update the page if you are fortunate enough NOT to receive a "TimeOut" error message.


Did you check the exception error log of DotNetNuke (log on as host to see the exception log in adminmenu > log viewer). Apart from network problems, you might suffer from some hidden exceptions, this might cause a page to become very slowly...

when you say:
 josun wrote:
Initial Load Time - Http://localhost/dnn virtual  virtual directory / default.aspx (or whatever someone else calls it) - but on average ot takes 5 minutes to load.  Yes, I have used HTTP Compression and NO difference.

Are you still talking about the upgraded site, or are you talking about a test site

I do no not wish to insult your intelligence, but did you check all log files of windows too, system log, security log, do you have auditing on for all kinds of events, did you check sqlserver log, sqlserver performance etc etc. All issues you describe are issues that are very uncommon to say the least. Some very big sites run on dnn without any problems whatsoever ...

cheers,

erik



Erik van Ballegoij, The Netherlands
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ErikVB
5/27/2005 12:28:15 PM

ErikVB - Thank you for your Input!

Reviewed everything you recommended - results are (also which are automatically sent (based upon a performance and alert monitor we have deployed) ):

Event Monitor - Applications and System

For SQL Server and Event ID > 17055  is automatically sent to Operators - Nothing reported since 5/9/2005 other that 19011 (SuperSocket) I also reviewed event log - really nothing to report

DNN Log - NO Exceptions (Personally would like to know this file name so I can have anything alerted as well.

Event Log - We monitor for everything that is not "Informational: - I went into and reviewed evary entry for today and nothing as well.

SQL Application Log - This is something we wrote ourselves and we only used Stored Procedures - so we update this Application Log with the name of the Stored Procedure along with all parameters passed as well as execution date, time, elapsed time,  program, server, etc. and completion status with User ID as well.  Everything normal. 

SQL Execution Plans - We go after this data as well on a daily basis ( a monitor program we wrote) and compare the plans versus a month by month comparison based upon the number of records added to the tables and look for abnormalities based upon a table we created using baseline comparisons.  Once again, everything ok!

Fill Factors, Clustered Indexes, No Nulls, No Primary keys that exceed 4 fields, No Views in Data Base, (based upn default parms) - but this is my data base and I know it is pretty damn good

SQL Reporting Services - Absoutely "SCREAMS" when executing a program not within DNN

I bring DNN 3.X into the mix - and everything just dies!  This never happened prior to the upgrade. 

No this is not a test machine.

Yes, I did a direct upgrade to DNN 3.X  Something, somewhere in the upgrade process is leaving something "lingering" somewhere - I Don't know for a fact - but believe it or not - I feel it!

Thanks a lot for at least giving me somewhere to look for something!

Best Regards, - Joe Harris






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josun
5/27/2005 1:49:42 PM
OK Joe, depending on the custom modules you had installed on your 2.12 portal, upgrading might or might not work as expected. Although dnn 3 advertises upgrade from 2.1.2 is supported, this goes only for a core module only site .... Hence the suggestion to try a fresh DNN install, without the upgrade from 2.12. This might clear things up: are your issues caused by the upgrade process, or are you having some other (obscure) problem?

cheers,

erik
Erik van Ballegoij, The Netherlands
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ErikVB
5/27/2005 2:37:16 PM

ErikVB

Okay - I hae done a "clean" install on another server (nothing on it - purely for play  and prior to installing DNN 3.X in reinstalled MS 2003 Enterprise, SQL 2000, Analysis Services and REporting Services). 

But - in my production application with DNN that I am experiencing issues with - I have over 400 MS RS reports called from URL links in DNN 3.x -

Should I just "Export Template" from the troubled DNN 3.X site to the clean DNN 3.X site - But if I do that - I may introduce lingering issues which I do not want to do! 

But on the clean DNN 3.X site - it still takes a couple of minutes to add a new page - and after the add it still takes a couple of minutes to delete the page.  But a coule of minutes is certainly better than what I experienced on the troubled DNN 3.X site.

Best Regards - Joe Harris


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josun
5/27/2005 2:51:17 PM
Joe,
 
Scott McCulloch has a handy skinobject, that lets you see how much time it takes to generate a page (http://www.smcculloch.net/SkinObjects/PageGenerated/tabid/209/Default.aspx). This way you can see whether the delay is caused by the communication between server and client, or by something on the server (communication between webserver and datebase server however are included in the "page generated" time). On a fast server, the time it takes to generate the default first page of DNN, in the default skin, should be much less than a second (look at my site http://www.apollo-software.nl/, page generated is in bottom right corner. You will also notice that the first hit takes a bit longer, if you keep refreshing a couple of times, it will be a lot faster ... thats the caching kicking in).

Even though all your tools say its dnn being slow, in my experience dnn is a very fast application, however, it can take up a lot of resources on your webserver, and on your sql server. I am not saying you are monitoring the wrong things ... heck you sound like you know a lot more about your network setup than i do about mine :)...

Exporting a template is certainly a good option. AFAIK, the export template plugs into the IPortable implementation of all modules, so you will only get content of modules that support it. Furthermore, activating a template within your new install (using the site wizzard that should be a quick process) will only create modules that are actually installed in your clean portal. So make sure that all the modules you need are installed.

Good luck with this!

cheers,

erik

Erik van Ballegoij, The Netherlands
0
ErikVB
5/27/2005 4:52:38 PM
 josun wrote:
But on the clean DNN 3.X site - it still takes a couple of minutes to add a new page - and after the add it still takes a couple of minutes to delete the page.  But a coule of minutes is certainly better than what I experienced on the troubled DNN 3.X site.


Ouch! Do you mean from the time you click SAVE DNN takes a few minutes to actually update the site? I have installed DNN dozens of times and if it took more than 5 seconds I would lose my mind. However I have only installed it on Windows 2000 and Windows XP.

Do you have asp 2.0 installed (if so can you just have asp.net 1.1)?
Do you have all the latest service pacs?
Do you have a virus scanner or indexing services turned on?

Can anyone else confirm that a fresh copy of DNN works on Windows 2003?

SilverlightDesktop.net

A framework that allows you to dynamically load Silverlight modules into resizable draggable windows.
0
adefwebserver
5/27/2005 5:28:47 PM

ErivVb - You are tenacious and I like that!

Well, I cannot get Scott McCulloughs' skin in that I cannot use PayPal here in Thailand due to all of the "boilers" - people which sell bogus stock to innocent people.... DO NOT EVER BUY stock over the phone! It is a fairly huge industry here with a lot of "slime bags".... mostly rejects from their native country.  I should be in Koi Samet or Koi Samui - the beach!

So on to the point:

If you want - I can give you a Thai and Korean locale for you to do with what you want to do with!  I do not know the details but everything we have here is in English, Thai and Korean so tell me what format you want and I will send. Maybe you can incorporate into what you do - but maybe you should send me the English table first and I will then add 2 columns to and then you can do what you want with it in that you will have Englisnh, Thai, Korean in the table so - MAI PEN RAI - up to you!

SO I am going to export the tamplate from my suffering DNN3.X to the freshly installed DNN3.X and see what happens!

I have a really good friend in Utrecht and I have been to Amsterdam probably 20 - 30 times in that I was based in Brussells for a pretty long time!  Had some  great times in (Excuse the spelling) Leidsplain, The Vallach( The Walls - especially the BULLDOG)  the Dutch are really, really nice people that think (IMHO) extremely horizontally (OPEN)!  Really open and friendly people!  Certaonly a pleasure for me!

SO I will let you know the results - "&*(&*()&" what is wrong with me - it is Friday night and almost 1:00 in the morning and I am still working >>>>>>>  

Best Regards  -  Joe Harris

 

 


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josun
5/27/2005 5:48:59 PM
 adefwebserver wrote:

Can anyone else confirm that a fresh copy of DNN works on Windows 2003?


Yes, I can. Even with SP1.

Cheers,

DocHoliday


MCSA/MCSE on W2K3, artless DNN operator
0
DocHoliday
5/27/2005 6:10:16 PM
Running on Windows 2003 SP1 and SQL 2000 SP4, no problems here.
Not even with an update from 2.x
Geert Veenstra
0
Geert
5/27/2005 6:14:03 PM
Dear adefwebserver!

My environment is:

Windows 2003 Enterprise Server (BTW - I ran DNN2.X on Windows 2003 Enterprise Edition - it works)

SQL Server 2000 Enterprise Edition (With Analysis Services Installed and MS REporting Services)

All of MS latest releases, hotfixes and service packs!

Visual Studio .Net 2003

Yes, and I am still saying that within DNN 3.X it takes (ADMIN > PAGES) to create a page at least two or three minutes, to delete the page about the same time, to update the page about the same time, to move the page up in the heirarchy about the same time......not including the Schedler, the File Manager upload functions with ADMIN, etc, I could go on but it is not worth it!  Let's just get this upgrade &*(&*( worked out!  Do not be so flippant that you can upgrade to DNN 3.X with other modules installed (Users Online, etc.) it won't happen and explicit definitions or instructions should be provided that prevent these "major headaches" not only for me but the people who are TRYING TO HELP IN THE FORUM - SOME REALLY NICE PEOPLE! 

This is why I am being adamant that something is wrong....  There is no WAY that is the SQL server or whatever in that we have been through the execution plans, etc.  I select a menu option to run a report and execution time of the report is FAST - it is just the manuaverability within DNN, Launching DNN, maintenance within DNN that is the bottleneck!   The machine just "drops to its knees" when DNN is launched!   DNN 3.X just SUCKS the machinie and I will not accept any flippant answer that it is the application (MS REporting Services, SQL Statements which execute under the most extreme circumstances in less that 4 seconds) , Analysis Services, confuguration of the machine, etc. 

Also, by the way - in Windows 2003 or any other version of Windows  - do we have control of the application pools, execution priority, etc. that I have on an OS390 or an RS/6000 or even for that matter an AS/400 not including SUN!

So NO - it is not the application - Something is going on from the upgrade!~!!!!  Something is "Lingering" and I expect some answers - jeezus -

Sincere thanks (I rambled a tad) and best regards

Joe Harris

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josun
5/27/2005 6:15:50 PM
At this point the only thing I can think of is the security setup. Do you have Active Directory? Can you install on a web server that is totally isolated (not part of a domain)?



SilverlightDesktop.net

A framework that allows you to dynamically load Silverlight modules into resizable draggable windows.
0
adefwebserver
5/27/2005 6:24:44 PM
adefwebserver!

YES you can install a web server(s) (farms)  that is part of the network but is not part of AD - You can also do that with SharePoint but you "proxy", "disguise" the entire AD - Even though Sharepoint requires a "domain name" in order to configure it is still not a problem to "ghost" the domain - so to speak!

Best Regards - Joe Harris
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ดีแนฟืกะฟะรหระ
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josun
5/27/2005 6:31:59 PM
 josun wrote:

ErikVB

Okay - I hae done a "clean" install on another server (nothing on it - purely for play  and prior to installing DNN 3.X in reinstalled MS 2003 Enterprise, SQL 2000, Analysis Services and REporting Services). 

But - in my production application with DNN that I am experiencing issues with - I have over 400 MS RS reports called from URL links in DNN 3.x -

Should I just "Export Template" from the troubled DNN 3.X site to the clean DNN 3.X site - But if I do that - I may introduce lingering issues which I do not want to do! 

But on the clean DNN 3.X site - it still takes a couple of minutes to add a new page - and after the add it still takes a couple of minutes to delete the page.  But a coule of minutes is certainly better than what I experienced on the troubled DNN 3.X site.

Best Regards - Joe Harris



Keep an eye on your IIS worker process, the core claims DNN doenst use more than a couple of megs, but the garbage collecter lags behind so much in certain occasions, that the worker process can boost to over 200 MEGS of load running ONE instance of DNN. This has happened on my server before whilst monitoring.
IIS doens't like that and kills off the worker process. ASP.NET has to start all over again. This causes alot of delays
Try these settings:
http://forums.asp.net/912632/ShowPost.aspx
See my last post
http://www.purplebox.be/

0
PurpleBox
5/27/2005 6:32:36 PM
PurpleBox ___

Clever!   I have already made these changes and I will see what happens....

200mgs multiplied by at least 1,000 people (each instance - DNN) at each (24) hospitals - maybe I should have installed and deployed OS/390, DB2, and NAS! 

Thanks and best regards

Joe Harris


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ดีแนฟืกะฟะรหระ
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josun
5/27/2005 7:05:06 PM
 josun wrote:
200mgs multiplied by at least 1,000 people (each instance - DNN) at each (24) hospitals - maybe I should have installed and deployed OS/390, DB2, and NAS! 


Joe ... i am sure you are NOT saying that you are running a 1000 instances of dnn on one server ..... you would need one heck of a server ....

However ... if your portal is used by 1000 people it will get quite a lot of hits i suppose. Unless you recycle the asp.net process actively, the memory used by the application pool will grow and grow .... My provider reported a mem use of 500 MB for my single site, which was just running in test as well ... as it turned out he hadn't set the autorecycle options in iis ...

cheers,

erik
Erik van Ballegoij, The Netherlands
0
ErikVB
5/27/2005 8:27:36 PM
Reply:

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