Performance Monitor vs performance

Hello,

does Sybase Central Performance Monitor affect performance? We've had a 
problem, the db server was reacting very slow denying almost all of the work 
of around 100 concurrent users, with throwing all of them out as more users 
came in. The only major change done was that
the Sybase Performance monitor was left to be run overnight, with the 
following statistics:

Packets Sent
Packets Received
Requests
Threads
Unscheduled Requests

I understand that SC PM queries the server, but could this have a major 
impact on overall performance?

Thanks,
Pavel


0
Pavel
7/19/2006 12:58:37 PM
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IMO the fact that Sybase Central queries a few counters every ten
seconds really should not affect overall performance.

What version and build?

Did the thread count climb to the maximum, followed by a climb in
unscheduled requests? 

Did the CPU remain low? 

What about disk activity?

Were attempts to make new connections unsuccessful? 

Did work on existing connections grind to a halt? 

What is the dbsrv9 -gn setting?

What is PROPERTY ( 'CurrentCacheSize' )?

Breck

On 19 Jul 2006 05:58:37 -0700, "Pavel Karady"
<pavel_ns.ns_karady@ns_kogerusa.com> wrote:

>Hello,
>
>does Sybase Central Performance Monitor affect performance? We've had a 
>problem, the db server was reacting very slow denying almost all of the work 
>of around 100 concurrent users, with throwing all of them out as more users 
>came in. The only major change done was that
>the Sybase Performance monitor was left to be run overnight, with the 
>following statistics:
>
>Packets Sent
>Packets Received
>Requests
>Threads
>Unscheduled Requests
>
>I understand that SC PM queries the server, but could this have a major 
>impact on overall performance?
>
>Thanks,
>Pavel
>

--
Breck Carter [Team iAnywhere]
RisingRoad SQL Anywhere and MobiLink Professional Services
www.risingroad.com
The book: http://www.risingroad.com/SQL_Anywhere_Studio_9_Developers_Guide.html
breck.carter@risingroad.com
0
Breck
7/19/2006 2:20:29 PM
Breck, thanks for your answer, my answers are inline.

"Breck Carter [Team iAnywhere]" <NOSPAM__bcarter@risingroad.com> wrote in 
message news:vuesb2ho61msar4pd38toa94ul1vh6tjom@4ax.com...
> IMO the fact that Sybase Central queries a few counters every ten
> seconds really should not affect overall performance.

Yes, I think so. I'm just concerned about the Requests statistics - I've 
observed a peak of 529 requests when there was no almost no activity on the 
database.... which surprised me, because what I thought was that 1 request 
equals 1 fiber, 4 CPUs + 1 = 5 fibers per thread, and 60 threads are set on 
the server which I thought meant 60 x 5 = 300 is the maximum. Perhaps it's 
explainable by the information that Sybase Central performance monitor shows 
requests *per second*, so if they are processed very fast, there *could* be 
529 requests being processed in one second? And if yes, what's the "normal" 
number of requests being
processed per second for probably 140 concurrent connections?

> What version and build?
The vanished 9.0.2.3302. Sorry I should have mentioned that before.

> Did the thread count climb to the maximum, followed by a climb in
> unscheduled requests?
SC and database server were actually down when I arrived in the morning - no 
statistics gathered. Very sad. One of the other DBAs says he has never seen 
an
unscheduled request since the number of threads went up to 60 (months ago).

> Did the CPU remain low?
Yes.

> What about disk activity?
No clue.

> Were attempts to make new connections unsuccessful?
The server was restarted before trying that out (before I've arrived in the 
morning).

> Did work on existing connections grind to a halt?
Yes.

> What is the dbsrv9 -gn setting?
You aready know from previous text in this post - it's 60.

> What is PROPERTY ( 'CurrentCacheSize' )?
It's 1843200 (maxed). The cache usage is the very same for the last two 
months - and the crash was today, after leaving SC PM on for the night..

Thanks again for your interest, Breck.
Pavel 


0
Pavel
7/19/2006 3:57:05 PM
"Pavel Karady" <pavel_ns.ns_karady@ns_kogerusa.com> wrote in
news:44be5651$1@forums-1-dub: 

> 
> Yes, I think so. I'm just concerned about the Requests statistics -
> I've observed a peak of 529 requests when there was no almost no
> activity on the database.... which surprised me, because what I
> thought was that 1 request equals 1 fiber, 4 CPUs + 1 = 5 fibers per
> thread, and 60 threads are set on the server which I thought meant 60
> x 5 = 300 is the maximum. 

This is incorrect. Post your command line and I can tell you what the 
server is doing with respect to threading.

-- 
Glenn Paulley
Research and Development Manager, Query Processing
iAnywhere Solutions Engineering

Register now for TechWave 2006 August 6-10 in Las Vegas.  New!  2-day
and 4-day options for SQL Anywhere technical training.  Sessions will
focus on data management, data movement, and SQL Anywhere 10. Visit
www.sybase.com/techwave

EBF's and Patches: http://downloads.sybase.com
 choose SQL Anywhere Studio >> change 'time frame' to all
0
Glenn
7/19/2006 4:46:10 PM
Glenn, the server command line is:

-n production
-c 1800M
-ch 1800M
-gn 60
-gd all
-gk dba
D:\dir\file.db

Pavel

"Glenn Paulley" <paulley@ianywhere.com> wrote in message 
news:Xns980580B45499Epaulleyianywherecom@10.22.241.106...
> "Pavel Karady" <pavel_ns.ns_karady@ns_kogerusa.com> wrote in
> news:44be5651$1@forums-1-dub:
>
>>
>> Yes, I think so. I'm just concerned about the Requests statistics -
>> I've observed a peak of 529 requests when there was no almost no
>> activity on the database.... which surprised me, because what I
>> thought was that 1 request equals 1 fiber, 4 CPUs + 1 = 5 fibers per
>> thread, and 60 threads are set on the server which I thought meant 60
>> x 5 = 300 is the maximum.
>
> This is incorrect. Post your command line and I can tell you what the
> server is doing with respect to threading.
>
> -- 
> Glenn Paulley
> Research and Development Manager, Query Processing
> iAnywhere Solutions Engineering
>
> Register now for TechWave 2006 August 6-10 in Las Vegas.  New!  2-day
> and 4-day options for SQL Anywhere technical training.  Sessions will
> focus on data management, data movement, and SQL Anywhere 10. Visit
> www.sybase.com/techwave
>
> EBF's and Patches: http://downloads.sybase.com
> choose SQL Anywhere Studio >> change 'time frame' to all 


0
Pavel
7/24/2006 5:47:48 PM
You have a 4 CPU machine, correct? If so, the database kernel is running 
with 5 OS threads and 60 fibers (one per the maximum multiprogramming 
level of 60). So the server can support a maximum of 60 active requests, 
with any 4 of them executing simultaneously (one on each CPU).

Glenn

"Pavel Karady" <pavel_ns.ns_karady@ns_kogerusa.com> wrote in 
news:44c505fd@forums-2-dub:

> Glenn, the server command line is:
> 
> -n production
> -c 1800M
> -ch 1800M
> -gn 60
> -gd all
> -gk dba
> D:\dir\file.db
> 
> Pavel
> 
> "Glenn Paulley" <paulley@ianywhere.com> wrote in message 
> news:Xns980580B45499Epaulleyianywherecom@10.22.241.106...
>> "Pavel Karady" <pavel_ns.ns_karady@ns_kogerusa.com> wrote in
>> news:44be5651$1@forums-1-dub:
>>
>>>
>>> Yes, I think so. I'm just concerned about the Requests statistics -
>>> I've observed a peak of 529 requests when there was no almost no
>>> activity on the database.... which surprised me, because what I
>>> thought was that 1 request equals 1 fiber, 4 CPUs + 1 = 5 fibers per
>>> thread, and 60 threads are set on the server which I thought meant 60
>>> x 5 = 300 is the maximum.
>>
>> This is incorrect. Post your command line and I can tell you what the
>> server is doing with respect to threading.
>>
>> -- 
>> Glenn Paulley
>> Research and Development Manager, Query Processing
>> iAnywhere Solutions Engineering
>>
>> Register now for TechWave 2006 August 6-10 in Las Vegas.  New!  2-day
>> and 4-day options for SQL Anywhere technical training.  Sessions will
>> focus on data management, data movement, and SQL Anywhere 10. Visit
>> www.sybase.com/techwave
>>
>> EBF's and Patches: http://downloads.sybase.com
>> choose SQL Anywhere Studio >> change 'time frame' to all 
> 
> 



-- 
Glenn Paulley
Research and Development Manager, Query Processing
iAnywhere Solutions Engineering

Register now for TechWave 2006 August 6-10 in Las Vegas.  New!  2-day
and 4-day options for SQL Anywhere technical training.  Sessions will
focus on data management, data movement, and SQL Anywhere 10. Visit
www.sybase.com/techwave

EBF's and Patches: http://downloads.sybase.com
 choose SQL Anywhere Studio >> change 'time frame' to all
0
Glenn
8/1/2006 1:58:00 PM
"Glenn Paulley" <paulley@ianywhere.com> wrote in message 
news:Xns981263FB2A386paulleyianywherecom@10.22.241.106...
> You have a 4 CPU machine, correct? If so, the database kernel is running
> with 5 OS threads and 60 fibers (one per the maximum multiprogramming
> level of 60). So the server can support a maximum of 60 active requests,
> with any 4 of them executing simultaneously (one on each CPU).
>
> Glenn

Thanks for the clarification, now I see that this is what help says. Three 
questions emerge:

1. Is there any way how to determine the "correct" number (or a number close 
to it) of fibers, which should be set on db server? Can SC Performance 
Monitor with it's no. of requests per time unit be any help to that 
decision?

2. The -gn option seems to be ultimately defining the number of fibers for 
db server, regardless of number of OS threads. Is this true? Also, the help 
says: "The -gn option controls the number of tasks used to process requests. 
Effectively, this is the number of requests that can be handled 
concurrently." Is "handling concurrently" something different compared to 
"executing simultaneously"? It looks like it is - this question regards the 
4 simultaneous executions (depending on CPU).

3. What do you mean by maximum multriprogramming level of 60?

Thanks in advance
Pavel

>
> "Pavel Karady" <pavel_ns.ns_karady@ns_kogerusa.com> wrote in
> news:44c505fd@forums-2-dub:
>
>> Glenn, the server command line is:
>>
>> -n production
>> -c 1800M
>> -ch 1800M
>> -gn 60
>> -gd all
>> -gk dba
>> D:\dir\file.db
>>
>> Pavel
>>
>> "Glenn Paulley" <paulley@ianywhere.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns980580B45499Epaulleyianywherecom@10.22.241.106...
>>> "Pavel Karady" <pavel_ns.ns_karady@ns_kogerusa.com> wrote in
>>> news:44be5651$1@forums-1-dub:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I think so. I'm just concerned about the Requests statistics -
>>>> I've observed a peak of 529 requests when there was no almost no
>>>> activity on the database.... which surprised me, because what I
>>>> thought was that 1 request equals 1 fiber, 4 CPUs + 1 = 5 fibers per
>>>> thread, and 60 threads are set on the server which I thought meant 60
>>>> x 5 = 300 is the maximum.
>>>
>>> This is incorrect. Post your command line and I can tell you what the
>>> server is doing with respect to threading.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Glenn Paulley
>>> Research and Development Manager, Query Processing
>>> iAnywhere Solutions Engineering
>>>
>>> Register now for TechWave 2006 August 6-10 in Las Vegas.  New!  2-day
>>> and 4-day options for SQL Anywhere technical training.  Sessions will
>>> focus on data management, data movement, and SQL Anywhere 10. Visit
>>> www.sybase.com/techwave
>>>
>>> EBF's and Patches: http://downloads.sybase.com
>>> choose SQL Anywhere Studio >> change 'time frame' to all
>>
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Glenn Paulley
> Research and Development Manager, Query Processing
> iAnywhere Solutions Engineering
>
> Register now for TechWave 2006 August 6-10 in Las Vegas.  New!  2-day
> and 4-day options for SQL Anywhere technical training.  Sessions will
> focus on data management, data movement, and SQL Anywhere 10. Visit
> www.sybase.com/techwave
>
> EBF's and Patches: http://downloads.sybase.com
> choose SQL Anywhere Studio >> change 'time frame' to all 


0
Pavel
8/2/2006 5:53:24 PM
Answers inlined.

"Pavel Karady" <pavel_ns.ns_karady@ns_kogerusa.com> wrote in
news:44d0e499@forums-2-dub: 

> "Glenn Paulley" <paulley@ianywhere.com> wrote in message 
> news:Xns981263FB2A386paulleyianywherecom@10.22.241.106...
>> You have a 4 CPU machine, correct? If so, the database kernel is
>> running with 5 OS threads and 60 fibers (one per the maximum
>> multiprogramming level of 60). So the server can support a maximum of
>> 60 active requests, with any 4 of them executing simultaneously (one
>> on each CPU). 
>>
>> Glenn
> 
> Thanks for the clarification, now I see that this is what help says.
> Three questions emerge:
> 
> 1. Is there any way how to determine the "correct" number (or a number
> close to it) of fibers, which should be set on db server? Can SC
> Performance Monitor with it's no. of requests per time unit be any
> help to that decision?

The final answer depends on your application, so ultimately this is a 
performance tuning/capacity planning exercise. See below.

> 
> 2. The -gn option seems to be ultimately defining the number of fibers
> for db server, regardless of number of OS threads. Is this true? 

Yes - the -gn switch sets the server's maximum multiprogramming level.

> Also,
> the help says: "The -gn option controls the number of tasks used to
> process requests. Effectively, this is the number of requests that can
> be handled concurrently." Is "handling concurrently" something
> different compared to "executing simultaneously"?

Yes and no. The short answer is no. The somewhat longer answer is that 
when people refer to "simultaneous execution" they really mean 
simultaneous - ie if you have a 4-CPU machine, then at most 4 threads can 
be executing simultaneously, one per processor.

> It looks like it is
> - this question regards the 4 simultaneous executions (depending on
> CPU). 
> 
> 3. What do you mean by maximum multriprogramming level of 60?
>

Since each request requires a fiber, setting the number of tasks (fibers) 
to 60 means that you can have at most 60 requests executing concurrently, 
which is defined as the server's multiprogramming level.

Whether or not "60" is a "good" number depends on your system and your 
application's workload. Lowering it may reduce throughput, but lowering -
gn will free up resources and permit more memory to be used for the 
remaining requests. Lowering -gn may also improve each request's response 
time by potentially reducing the working set within the server's buffer 
pool. 

If you're going to change -gn from its default (maximum 20 concurrent 
requests), then you need to test your overall system to determine the 
setting that gives you the best tradeoffs of throughput and response 
time.

Glenn

> Thanks in advance
> Pavel
> 
>>
>> "Pavel Karady" <pavel_ns.ns_karady@ns_kogerusa.com> wrote in
>> news:44c505fd@forums-2-dub:
>>
>>> Glenn, the server command line is:
>>>
>>> -n production
>>> -c 1800M
>>> -ch 1800M
>>> -gn 60
>>> -gd all
>>> -gk dba
>>> D:\dir\file.db
>>>
>>> Pavel
>>>
>>> "Glenn Paulley" <paulley@ianywhere.com> wrote in message
>>> news:Xns980580B45499Epaulleyianywherecom@10.22.241.106...
>>>> "Pavel Karady" <pavel_ns.ns_karady@ns_kogerusa.com> wrote in
>>>> news:44be5651$1@forums-1-dub:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I think so. I'm just concerned about the Requests statistics
>>>>> - I've observed a peak of 529 requests when there was no almost no
>>>>> activity on the database.... which surprised me, because what I
>>>>> thought was that 1 request equals 1 fiber, 4 CPUs + 1 = 5 fibers
>>>>> per thread, and 60 threads are set on the server which I thought
>>>>> meant 60 x 5 = 300 is the maximum.
>>>>
>>>> This is incorrect. Post your command line and I can tell you what
>>>> the server is doing with respect to threading.
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Glenn Paulley
>>>> Research and Development Manager, Query Processing
>>>> iAnywhere Solutions Engineering
>>>>
>>>> Register now for TechWave 2006 August 6-10 in Las Vegas.  New! 
>>>> 2-day and 4-day options for SQL Anywhere technical training. 
>>>> Sessions will focus on data management, data movement, and SQL
>>>> Anywhere 10. Visit www.sybase.com/techwave
>>>>
>>>> EBF's and Patches: http://downloads.sybase.com
>>>> choose SQL Anywhere Studio >> change 'time frame' to all
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Glenn Paulley
>> Research and Development Manager, Query Processing
>> iAnywhere Solutions Engineering
>>
>> Register now for TechWave 2006 August 6-10 in Las Vegas.  New!  2-day
>> and 4-day options for SQL Anywhere technical training.  Sessions will
>> focus on data management, data movement, and SQL Anywhere 10. Visit
>> www.sybase.com/techwave
>>
>> EBF's and Patches: http://downloads.sybase.com
>> choose SQL Anywhere Studio >> change 'time frame' to all 
> 
> 
> 



-- 
Glenn Paulley
Research and Development Manager, Query Processing
iAnywhere Solutions Engineering

Register now for TechWave 2006 August 6-10 in Las Vegas.  New!  2-day
and 4-day options for SQL Anywhere technical training.  Sessions will
focus on data management, data movement, and SQL Anywhere 10. Visit
www.sybase.com/techwave

EBF's and Patches: http://downloads.sybase.com
 choose SQL Anywhere Studio >> change 'time frame' to all
0
Glenn
8/2/2006 7:37:15 PM
Reply:

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