To PFC or Not To PFC

I'm returning to PB development after about 7 years in management and
I'm trying to figure out how PFC fits into the current PB world.  I
used it with 6.5 and thought it was great (though sometimes a little
complex, especially when debigging).  It seems that Sybase doesn't
push it anymore and I think I saw a post that said it hasn't changed
since 8.0(?).

I'll be developing an app for commercial sale and I think PB is
perfect since I think I can get more done in a shorter period of time
with PB than with anything else.  I especially like that PB's future
leads to full .Net support.  But should I use PFC?  STD FC?  Kodigo?
Or nothing at all?  I like Brad Wery's new interface objects and
intend to use them extensively.  The first version will be a
traditional CS windows app with a future version being web based.

I'd like to benefit from the communal wisdom if I may so that I don't
have to waste time and backtrack after surveying the landscape.

Thanks for the anticipated help in advance!

Shawn
0
LongbowShawn
5/16/2008 6:30:24 PM
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Well, if you're 'really' going to go web-based, then you'll want to skip PFC 
AND Brad Wery's stuff.  PFC because it is just to heavy and tightly-coupled 
for real web use (although I have several apps converted to PB11 webforms 
with PFC under them that 'work', I would NOT recommend using this in a from 
scratch application).  Brad's stuff is a no-go at the moment because it only 
supports WINform (.NET for windows and is dependent on a compiled DLL - he 
gives you the PB source, but I'm not sure if the DLL source was there, but 
this creates a dependency I don't feel comfortable with at the moment) 
PB11.5 and PB12 are going to set a new bar for PB and will hopefully make it 
clearer what path to take longer term.

Unless the app is trivial (throw away), and IF it will have a large 
concurrent user base on the web eventually, you need to design for N-tier as 
opposed to two-tier.  Even if you put your database access in a non-client 
tier (such as making webservices or straight stored procedures do ALL of 
your database access and transaction management), I'm not sure if the PB11 
webform mechanism 'scales'.  I'm sure it would be OK for intranet non-public 
applications with enough horse-power behind the webserver(s), but its design 
clearly precludes use for a real commercial scale web app because it use 
'persistence' and stateful objects which would kill any webserver model when 
you get into thousands, hundred thousands, and millions of users.

If you do not yet have a real web need or don't have large user base in 
mind, then PFC for PBNative or Winforms is fine and even possible for 
Webforms.  Alternatively Brad's stuff will be fine for Winforms, but 
probably won't EVER port to webforms without him making large changes (that 
may zap you).

Many, many, many departmental apps that I've written and worked on over the 
years at Fortune 500 hundred companies, would actually run just fine or be 
redesigned slightly to be just fine using PB11.2 and webforms.  One out of 
10 would be too complex, too fat, and ridiculous to expect they'd ever 
really work well (I actually have 4 apps from last 15 years of work that 
would just never go, 3 because they're interfaces are too complex, rich and 
heavy, the fourth because it has over 2000 concurrent users and is difficult 
and expensive to make run with PBNative even)

The politics I face in a Fortune 500 company now is simply 'PB is dead' in 
management's brain and this something that I may never be able to overcome 
(even when I can port simple department app to the web and make it more 
easily distributable and maintainable at very reasonable cost!)

Good Luck! - Jim



"LongbowShawn" <sdavis@longbowtech.com> wrote in message 
news:0f96370d-d1cb-49ed-a59b-b6c39b7dcec8@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> I'm returning to PB development after about 7 years in management and
> I'm trying to figure out how PFC fits into the current PB world.  I
> used it with 6.5 and thought it was great (though sometimes a little
> complex, especially when debigging).  It seems that Sybase doesn't
> push it anymore and I think I saw a post that said it hasn't changed
> since 8.0(?).
>
> I'll be developing an app for commercial sale and I think PB is
> perfect since I think I can get more done in a shorter period of time
> with PB than with anything else.  I especially like that PB's future
> leads to full .Net support.  But should I use PFC?  STD FC?  Kodigo?
> Or nothing at all?  I like Brad Wery's new interface objects and
> intend to use them extensively.  The first version will be a
> traditional CS windows app with a future version being web based.
>
> I'd like to benefit from the communal wisdom if I may so that I don't
> have to waste time and backtrack after surveying the landscape.
>
> Thanks for the anticipated help in advance!
>
> Shawn 


0
Jim
5/17/2008 6:54:17 PM
"Jim Madderra" <jmadderra@astound.net> wrote in message 
news:482f29d9$1@forums-1-dub...
> Well, if you're 'really' going to go web-based, then you'll want to skip 
> PFC AND Brad Wery's stuff.


Unless you're willing to evaluate Appeon for PowerBuilder.  With that tool, 
your PFC-based apps can get directly to the web with near 100% 
compatibility.  I don't know if that includes Brad's work on the GUI, but 
it's worth a look.


PFC because it is just to heavy and tightly-coupled
> for real web use (although I have several apps converted to PB11 webforms 
> with PFC under them that 'work', I would NOT recommend using this in a 
> from scratch application).  Brad's stuff is a no-go at the moment because 
> it only supports WINform (.NET for windows and is dependent on a compiled 
> DLL - he gives you the PB source, but I'm not sure if the DLL source was 
> there, but this creates a dependency I don't feel comfortable with at the 
> moment) PB11.5 and PB12 are going to set a new bar for PB and will 
> hopefully make it clearer what path to take longer term.
>
> Unless the app is trivial (throw away), and IF it will have a large 
> concurrent user base on the web eventually, you need to design for N-tier 
> as opposed to two-tier.

Completely agree.  100%.   Two-tier, even when it's pseudo three-tier as 
delivered through IIS, will never scale to Amazon.com levels.

Even if you put your database access in a non-client
> tier (such as making webservices or straight stored procedures do ALL of 
> your database access and transaction management), I'm not sure if the PB11 
> webform mechanism 'scales'.  I'm sure it would be OK for intranet 
> non-public applications with enough horse-power behind the webserver(s), 
> but its design clearly precludes use for a real commercial scale web app 
> because it use 'persistence' and stateful objects which would kill any 
> webserver model when you get into thousands, hundred thousands, and 
> millions of users.
>
> If you do not yet have a real web need or don't have large user base in 
> mind, then PFC for PBNative or Winforms is fine and even possible for 
> Webforms.  Alternatively Brad's stuff will be fine for Winforms, but 
> probably won't EVER port to webforms without him making large changes 
> (that may zap you).
>
> Many, many, many departmental apps that I've written and worked on over 
> the years at Fortune 500 hundred companies, would actually run just fine 
> or be redesigned slightly to be just fine using PB11.2 and webforms.  One 
> out of 10 would be too complex, too fat, and ridiculous to expect they'd 
> ever really work well (I actually have 4 apps from last 15 years of work 
> that would just never go, 3 because they're interfaces are too complex, 
> rich and heavy, the fourth because it has over 2000 concurrent users and 
> is difficult and expensive to make run with PBNative even)
>
> The politics I face in a Fortune 500 company now is simply 'PB is dead' in 
> management's brain and this something that I may never be able to overcome 
> (even when I can port simple department app to the web and make it more 
> easily distributable and maintainable at very reasonable cost!)

Send them to TechWave!    They'll see PB in a whole new light, and they'll 
get a few days in Vegas!

Paul Horan[TeamSybase]


0
Paul
5/18/2008 12:07:39 AM
Not really trying to disagree, but would you really consider a NEW 
application with appeon in mind as the target?  I would want to use a tool 
that was legitimately capable of the task at hand from the start. 
Certainly, Appeon would be the cheapest and apparently only way to scale my 
2000 concurrent PB user app to a browser, but I don't think I'd have 
designed it that way in the first place (I didn't design or build the 
original anyway, so not really 'mine' in that way) with the web or that user 
scale in mind.

(I hate re-reading my own posts, like below and seeing how much I ignore 
grammar and spelling...I do know better, but seldom re-read my own posts 
before hitting the send key) :-)

"Paul Horan[TeamSybase]" <phoran AT sybase DOT com> wrote in message 
news:482f734b$1@forums-1-dub...
>
> "Jim Madderra" <jmadderra@astound.net> wrote in message 
> news:482f29d9$1@forums-1-dub...
>> Well, if you're 'really' going to go web-based, then you'll want to skip 
>> PFC AND Brad Wery's stuff.
>
>
> Unless you're willing to evaluate Appeon for PowerBuilder.  With that 
> tool, your PFC-based apps can get directly to the web with near 100% 
> compatibility.  I don't know if that includes Brad's work on the GUI, but 
> it's worth a look.
>
>
> PFC because it is just to heavy and tightly-coupled
>> for real web use (although I have several apps converted to PB11 webforms 
>> with PFC under them that 'work', I would NOT recommend using this in a 
>> from scratch application).  Brad's stuff is a no-go at the moment because 
>> it only supports WINform (.NET for windows and is dependent on a compiled 
>> DLL - he gives you the PB source, but I'm not sure if the DLL source was 
>> there, but this creates a dependency I don't feel comfortable with at the 
>> moment) PB11.5 and PB12 are going to set a new bar for PB and will 
>> hopefully make it clearer what path to take longer term.
>>
>> Unless the app is trivial (throw away), and IF it will have a large 
>> concurrent user base on the web eventually, you need to design for N-tier 
>> as opposed to two-tier.
>
> Completely agree.  100%.   Two-tier, even when it's pseudo three-tier as 
> delivered through IIS, will never scale to Amazon.com levels.
>
> Even if you put your database access in a non-client
>> tier (such as making webservices or straight stored procedures do ALL of 
>> your database access and transaction management), I'm not sure if the 
>> PB11 webform mechanism 'scales'.  I'm sure it would be OK for intranet 
>> non-public applications with enough horse-power behind the webserver(s), 
>> but its design clearly precludes use for a real commercial scale web app 
>> because it use 'persistence' and stateful objects which would kill any 
>> webserver model when you get into thousands, hundred thousands, and 
>> millions of users.
>>
>> If you do not yet have a real web need or don't have large user base in 
>> mind, then PFC for PBNative or Winforms is fine and even possible for 
>> Webforms.  Alternatively Brad's stuff will be fine for Winforms, but 
>> probably won't EVER port to webforms without him making large changes 
>> (that may zap you).
>>
>> Many, many, many departmental apps that I've written and worked on over 
>> the years at Fortune 500 hundred companies, would actually run just fine 
>> or be redesigned slightly to be just fine using PB11.2 and webforms.  One 
>> out of 10 would be too complex, too fat, and ridiculous to expect they'd 
>> ever really work well (I actually have 4 apps from last 15 years of work 
>> that would just never go, 3 because they're interfaces are too complex, 
>> rich and heavy, the fourth because it has over 2000 concurrent users and 
>> is difficult and expensive to make run with PBNative even)
>>
>> The politics I face in a Fortune 500 company now is simply 'PB is dead' 
>> in management's brain and this something that I may never be able to 
>> overcome (even when I can port simple department app to the web and make 
>> it more easily distributable and maintainable at very reasonable cost!)
>
> Send them to TechWave!    They'll see PB in a whole new light, and they'll 
> get a few days in Vegas!
>
> Paul Horan[TeamSybase]
>
> 


0
Jim
5/18/2008 3:44:59 AM
I might...
If my team consisted of seasoned PB developers.
If I was under a time crunch to get the app deployed and couldn't invest iit 
would take to ramp them up on Flex or Silverlight or Ruby or <fill in the 
web development tool du jour).

-Paul-

"Jim Madderra" <jmadderra@astound.net> wrote in message 
news:482fa63b$1@forums-1-dub...
> Not really trying to disagree, but would you really consider a NEW 
> application with appeon in mind as the target?  I would want to use a tool 
> that was legitimately capable of the task at hand from the start. 
> Certainly, Appeon would be the cheapest and apparently only way to scale 
> my 2000 concurrent PB user app to a browser, but I don't think I'd have 
> designed it that way in the first place (I didn't design or build the 
> original anyway, so not really 'mine' in that way) with the web or that 
> user scale in mind.
>
> (I hate re-reading my own posts, like below and seeing how much I ignore 
> grammar and spelling...I do know better, but seldom re-read my own posts 
> before hitting the send key) :-)
>
> "Paul Horan[TeamSybase]" <phoran AT sybase DOT com> wrote in message 
> news:482f734b$1@forums-1-dub...
>>
>> "Jim Madderra" <jmadderra@astound.net> wrote in message 
>> news:482f29d9$1@forums-1-dub...
>>> Well, if you're 'really' going to go web-based, then you'll want to skip 
>>> PFC AND Brad Wery's stuff.
>>
>>
>> Unless you're willing to evaluate Appeon for PowerBuilder.  With that 
>> tool, your PFC-based apps can get directly to the web with near 100% 
>> compatibility.  I don't know if that includes Brad's work on the GUI, but 
>> it's worth a look.
>>
>>
>> PFC because it is just to heavy and tightly-coupled
>>> for real web use (although I have several apps converted to PB11 
>>> webforms with PFC under them that 'work', I would NOT recommend using 
>>> this in a from scratch application).  Brad's stuff is a no-go at the 
>>> moment because it only supports WINform (.NET for windows and is 
>>> dependent on a compiled DLL - he gives you the PB source, but I'm not 
>>> sure if the DLL source was there, but this creates a dependency I don't 
>>> feel comfortable with at the moment) PB11.5 and PB12 are going to set a 
>>> new bar for PB and will hopefully make it clearer what path to take 
>>> longer term.
>>>
>>> Unless the app is trivial (throw away), and IF it will have a large 
>>> concurrent user base on the web eventually, you need to design for 
>>> N-tier as opposed to two-tier.
>>
>> Completely agree.  100%.   Two-tier, even when it's pseudo three-tier as 
>> delivered through IIS, will never scale to Amazon.com levels.
>>
>> Even if you put your database access in a non-client
>>> tier (such as making webservices or straight stored procedures do ALL of 
>>> your database access and transaction management), I'm not sure if the 
>>> PB11 webform mechanism 'scales'.  I'm sure it would be OK for intranet 
>>> non-public applications with enough horse-power behind the webserver(s), 
>>> but its design clearly precludes use for a real commercial scale web app 
>>> because it use 'persistence' and stateful objects which would kill any 
>>> webserver model when you get into thousands, hundred thousands, and 
>>> millions of users.
>>>
>>> If you do not yet have a real web need or don't have large user base in 
>>> mind, then PFC for PBNative or Winforms is fine and even possible for 
>>> Webforms.  Alternatively Brad's stuff will be fine for Winforms, but 
>>> probably won't EVER port to webforms without him making large changes 
>>> (that may zap you).
>>>
>>> Many, many, many departmental apps that I've written and worked on over 
>>> the years at Fortune 500 hundred companies, would actually run just fine 
>>> or be redesigned slightly to be just fine using PB11.2 and webforms. 
>>> One out of 10 would be too complex, too fat, and ridiculous to expect 
>>> they'd ever really work well (I actually have 4 apps from last 15 years 
>>> of work that would just never go, 3 because they're interfaces are too 
>>> complex, rich and heavy, the fourth because it has over 2000 concurrent 
>>> users and is difficult and expensive to make run with PBNative even)
>>>
>>> The politics I face in a Fortune 500 company now is simply 'PB is dead' 
>>> in management's brain and this something that I may never be able to 
>>> overcome (even when I can port simple department app to the web and make 
>>> it more easily distributable and maintainable at very reasonable cost!)
>>
>> Send them to TechWave!    They'll see PB in a whole new light, and 
>> they'll get a few days in Vegas!
>>
>> Paul Horan[TeamSybase]
>>
>>
>
> 


0
Paul
5/18/2008 1:31:25 PM
You might want to have a look at my reply to KARLA in the webforms
group about PFC. Jim and I have come to the same conclusion, but for
different reasons. I don't think the tightly coupled nature of PFC
makes it a problem, because classes and linked classes aren't
downloaded to the client, which is kind of a cool thing about PB
WebForms. However, PFC is architected in a way that is going to cause
a lot of UI grief in a WebForms application.

Keep in mind, whatever tool or framework you use, you can make
decisions that are in the best interests and best practices of the
platform you're working on, but those decisions may slay you on
another platform. IME, you need to *know* the best practices and
limitations of both platforms in advance, and implement them on the
first pass, possibly compromising both platforms.

Personally, I'm a big fan of writing reusable business functionality,
and writing two apps that use it. I'm just not impressed with the
write-once-deploy-everywhere options to date.

Good luck,

Terry [TeamSybase] and Sequel the techno-kitten

On Fri, 16 May 2008 11:30:24 -0700 (PDT), LongbowShawn
<sdavis@longbowtech.com> wrote:

>I'm returning to PB development after about 7 years in management and
>I'm trying to figure out how PFC fits into the current PB world.  I
>used it with 6.5 and thought it was great (though sometimes a little
>complex, especially when debigging).  It seems that Sybase doesn't
>push it anymore and I think I saw a post that said it hasn't changed
>since 8.0(?).
>
>I'll be developing an app for commercial sale and I think PB is
>perfect since I think I can get more done in a shorter period of time
>with PB than with anything else.  I especially like that PB's future
>leads to full .Net support.  But should I use PFC?  STD FC?  Kodigo?
>Or nothing at all?  I like Brad Wery's new interface objects and
>intend to use them extensively.  The first version will be a
>traditional CS windows app with a future version being web based.
>
>I'd like to benefit from the communal wisdom if I may so that I don't
>have to waste time and backtrack after surveying the landscape.
>
>Thanks for the anticipated help in advance!
>
>Shawn

*********************************
Build your vocabulary while feeding the hungry
http://www.freerice.com
*********************************
Newsgroup User Manual
=====================
TeamSybase <> Sybase employee
Forums = Peer-to-peer
Forums <> Communication with Sybase
IsNull (AnswerTo (Posting)) can return TRUE
Forums.Moderated = TRUE, so behave or be deleted
*********************************

Sequel's Sandbox: http://www.techno-kitten.com
Home of PBL Peeper, a free PowerBuilder Developer's Toolkit. 
Version 4.0.3 now available at the Sandbox
PB Futures updated April 2/2008
See the PB Troubleshooting & Migration Guides at the Sandbox
^ ^
o o
=*=
0
Terry
5/20/2008 3:37:03 PM
On May 20, 10:37=A0am, Terry Voth <seq...@techno-kitten.com> wrote:
> You might want to have a look at my reply to KARLA in the webforms
> group about PFC. Jim and I have come to the same conclusion, but for
> different reasons. I don't think the tightly coupled nature of PFC
> makes it a problem, because classes and linked classes aren't
> downloaded to the client, which is kind of a cool thing about PB
> WebForms. However, PFC is architected in a way that is going to cause
> a lot of UI grief in a WebForms application.
>
> Keep in mind, whatever tool or framework you use, you can make
> decisions that are in the best interests and best practices of the
> platform you're working on, but those decisions may slay you on
> another platform. IME, you need to *know* the best practices and
> limitations of both platforms in advance, and implement them on the
> first pass, possibly compromising both platforms.
>
> Personally, I'm a big fan of writing reusable business functionality,
> and writing two apps that use it. I'm just not impressed with the
> write-once-deploy-everywhere options to date.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Terry [TeamSybase] and Sequel the techno-kitten
>
> On Fri, 16 May 2008 11:30:24 -0700 (PDT), LongbowShawn
>
>
>
>
>
> <sda...@longbowtech.com> wrote:
> >I'm returning to PB development after about 7 years in management and
> >I'm trying to figure out how PFC fits into the current PB world. =A0I
> >used it with 6.5 and thought it was great (though sometimes a little
> >complex, especially when debigging). =A0It seems that Sybase doesn't
> >push it anymore and I think I saw a post that said it hasn't changed
> >since 8.0(?).
>
> >I'll be developing an app for commercial sale and I think PB is
> >perfect since I think I can get more done in a shorter period of time
> >with PB than with anything else. =A0I especially like that PB's future
> >leads to full .Net support. =A0But should I use PFC? =A0STD FC? =A0Kodigo=
?
> >Or nothing at all? =A0I like Brad Wery's new interface objects and
> >intend to use them extensively. =A0The first version will be a
> >traditional CS windows app with a future version being web based.
>
> >I'd like to benefit from the communal wisdom if I may so that I don't
> >have to waste time and backtrack after surveying the landscape.
>
> >Thanks for the anticipated help in advance!
>
> >Shawn
>
> *********************************
> Build your vocabulary while feeding the hungryhttp://www.freerice.com
> *********************************
> Newsgroup User Manual
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> TeamSybase <> Sybase employee
> Forums =3D Peer-to-peer
> Forums <> Communication with Sybase
> IsNull (AnswerTo (Posting)) can return TRUE
> Forums.Moderated =3D TRUE, so behave or be deleted
> *********************************
>
> Sequel's Sandbox:http://www.techno-kitten.com
> Home of PBL Peeper, a free PowerBuilder Developer's Toolkit.
> Version 4.0.3 now available at the Sandbox
> PB Futures updated April 2/2008
> See the PB Troubleshooting & Migration Guides at the Sandbox
> ^ ^
> o o
> =3D*=3D- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the input.

I take from this:

For client server (2 tier) PFC still a great way to go...

For web based be wary of anything not written for the web and I'll
probably have to roll my own.

Any specific thoughts about Kodigo or STD FC?  Anybody writing an FC
for webforms?  Does STD FC's origins on PPB make it a good (or
potential) choice for webforms?

Thanks,

Shawn
0
LongbowShawn
5/20/2008 5:34:41 PM
My perception of Kodigo (from a *very* brief review quite some time
ago) was that it was very dependent on WinAPI calls to manipulate the
GUI. This won't translate to WebForms. I've *heard* of some other
framework elements in Kodigo that might help creating reusable
business logic, but I haven't seen it myself.

I'm not sure STD's origins on the mobile platform are going to be what
lends it to WebForms. If anything, PocketBuilder encourages
single-tier development, with database synchronization to off-portable
databases. WebForm's challenge is it's three-tier nature, and its lack
of control over the client-side tier. Just taking a quick look at it,
I see scripts in the ancestor DataWindow's ItemChanged event, which
will force postbacks on all data entry; the same problem with PFC. 

Then again, this falls into my perception that any design looking to
play up the strengths of one platform is going to play into the
weaknesses of the other. I guess you'll have to decide if the facts
are supporting my point of view, or if my point of view is tinting my
perception of the facts. <g>

Good luck,

Terry [TeamSybase] and Sequel the techno-kitten

On Tue, 20 May 2008 10:34:41 -0700 (PDT), LongbowShawn
<sdavis@longbowtech.com> wrote:

>On May 20, 10:37�am, Terry Voth <seq...@techno-kitten.com> wrote:
>> You might want to have a look at my reply to KARLA in the webforms
>> group about PFC. Jim and I have come to the same conclusion, but for
>> different reasons. I don't think the tightly coupled nature of PFC
>> makes it a problem, because classes and linked classes aren't
>> downloaded to the client, which is kind of a cool thing about PB
>> WebForms. However, PFC is architected in a way that is going to cause
>> a lot of UI grief in a WebForms application.
>>
>> Keep in mind, whatever tool or framework you use, you can make
>> decisions that are in the best interests and best practices of the
>> platform you're working on, but those decisions may slay you on
>> another platform. IME, you need to *know* the best practices and
>> limitations of both platforms in advance, and implement them on the
>> first pass, possibly compromising both platforms.
>>
>> Personally, I'm a big fan of writing reusable business functionality,
>> and writing two apps that use it. I'm just not impressed with the
>> write-once-deploy-everywhere options to date.
>>
>> Good luck,
>>
>> Terry [TeamSybase] and Sequel the techno-kitten
>>
>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 11:30:24 -0700 (PDT), LongbowShawn
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <sda...@longbowtech.com> wrote:
>> >I'm returning to PB development after about 7 years in management and
>> >I'm trying to figure out how PFC fits into the current PB world. �I
>> >used it with 6.5 and thought it was great (though sometimes a little
>> >complex, especially when debigging). �It seems that Sybase doesn't
>> >push it anymore and I think I saw a post that said it hasn't changed
>> >since 8.0(?).
>>
>> >I'll be developing an app for commercial sale and I think PB is
>> >perfect since I think I can get more done in a shorter period of time
>> >with PB than with anything else. �I especially like that PB's future
>> >leads to full .Net support. �But should I use PFC? �STD FC? �Kodigo?
>> >Or nothing at all? �I like Brad Wery's new interface objects and
>> >intend to use them extensively. �The first version will be a
>> >traditional CS windows app with a future version being web based.
>>
>> >I'd like to benefit from the communal wisdom if I may so that I don't
>> >have to waste time and backtrack after surveying the landscape.
>>
>> >Thanks for the anticipated help in advance!
>>
>> >Shawn
>>
>
>Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the input.
>
>I take from this:
>
>For client server (2 tier) PFC still a great way to go...
>
>For web based be wary of anything not written for the web and I'll
>probably have to roll my own.
>
>Any specific thoughts about Kodigo or STD FC?  Anybody writing an FC
>for webforms?  Does STD FC's origins on PPB make it a good (or
>potential) choice for webforms?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Shawn

*********************************
Build your vocabulary while feeding the hungry
http://www.freerice.com
*********************************
Newsgroup User Manual
=====================
TeamSybase <> Sybase employee
Forums = Peer-to-peer
Forums <> Communication with Sybase
IsNull (AnswerTo (Posting)) can return TRUE
Forums.Moderated = TRUE, so behave or be deleted
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Sequel's Sandbox: http://www.techno-kitten.com
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Terry
5/20/2008 7:16:39 PM
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PFC ? Not PFC ?
I am about to start a very big application and would like to know whether to use PFC or not. Is it not a good idea if we are only using a very small portion of the PFC functionalities? What are the benefits of using PFC? What are the disadvantage of using it? We already have development problem because it is too slow to bring up the object and window list in the dubugger. Please advise. loser , To Use or Not to Use? I dont have an answer for you there but, a solution to your speed of the debug issue is the following. We have found that keeping copies of the PFC, PFD, and PFE p...

PFC 10
Hi, will there be an open source PFC-Extender like it was in PB8 or 9 ? Thomas You might want to add that as an issue on the open source PFC project to help remind us to ask Sybase for the source. http://pfc.codexchange.sybase.com/servlets/ProjectIssues On 2 Sep 2004 00:56:54 -0700, Thomas wrote: >Hi, > >will there be an open source PFC-Extender like it was in PB8 >or 9 ? > >Thomas Bruce Armstrong [TeamSybase] http://www.teamsybase.com TeamSybase blogs: http://www.teamsybase.net/blogs Vote for PocketBuilder in the Mobile Village awards http...

To PFC or not to PFC ... opinnions please ?
Hi ... .... im kind of newbie on PFC (just a couple of days reading about it) ... i have developed PB 4-5-7 apps before without problems ... but now im interested on PFC structure ... .... can anyone enlight me about when/where use PFc and when is really NOT convenient ? ... and, the performance of the entire application would be faster/better or slower/worst ? thanks ! -- Atentamente ... Pato Concha Jr. Casilla 3381 Concepci�n CHILE (SouthAmerica) I hadn't used it until PB 6.5.1 and appreciate how much coding it saves me. I haven't done any performa...

PBD server (to PFC or not to PFC?)
<HTML> What might the disadvantages of using PFC on the server side of a PBD app?&nbsp; I read a thread in which Dean Jones(Team PS)&nbsp; recommended that it not be used.&nbsp; I was just interested in what these reasons might be other than the bulk and a good portion of&nbsp; the PFC relating to the GUI side development. <BR>&nbsp; <P>Regards, <P>DTL</HTML> The PFC is a framework to build GUI client applications and is not intended for use as a DPB server framework. The needs of a DPB server such as load balancing, error log...

PFC
Anyone know if Sybase has, or has plans for, a PFC translation into PPB? Refer to other postings.... The PPB group has no plans. There is a light-weight foundation class being developed by a user. Check out: "PFC (Pocket PowerBuilder Foundation Class)" To download, please visit: http://pocketpb.codexchange.sybase.com HTH, Reed Shilts <Standard-Disclaimers-Apply/> On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:53:08 -0400, "Russ Fleming" <anon> wrote: >Anyone know if Sybase has, or has plans for, a PFC translation into PPB? > I saw this earlier wh...

PFC
Let me correct myself, if you have powerbuilder Enterprise. ...

PFC
In PFC I cant use Ctl + c , ctl + v , ctl + x for simple operations like copy, paste or cut. can anyone help... thanks This newsgroup is mainly for the discussion of the future of PowerBuilder. For this type of question, you should probably post in powersoft.public.powerbuilder.pfc On Wed, 3 Apr 2002 17:41:23 -0500, "Shalinder Verma" <shalinder@mobile123.com> wrote: > In PFC I cant use Ctl + c , ctl + v , ctl + x for simple operations like > copy, paste or cut. > > can anyone help... > thanks > > > > Che...

pfc
hi, everyone does PB8.0 has pfc? why i can not find pfc*.obl Hai, It's there, You need to search n installation folder, While installing you select PFC Bye Vasu <TG> wrote in message news:011189152814956400307BB085256B43.00307BC785256B43@webforums... > hi, everyone > does PB8.0 has pfc? why i can not find pfc*.obl Re-insert the installation disk and select 'Custom Installation'. Then select PowerBuilder and in the setup choose 'Change'. Out of the PB components, just tickt he box next to PFC and it should be installed under Sybase\Powe...

PFC
If i develop a pfc app. do i need to deply all the pfc libraries too... won't this make the app very large? -- Regards, John Kingan Yes, you'll need the PFC libraries..Unless you want to try to spend the time to take what you need and just copy objects to your app. From what I've read it here that solution can be quite tedious and sometimes painful. -- Evita R. Chapa Senior Systems Analyst II Command Technologies, Inc. "John Kingan" <John.Kingan@ukgateway.net> wrote in message news:DSy4VHKYCHA.251@forums.sybase.com... > If i develo...

PFC 5 vs PFC 6 vs PFC 5 migrated to 6
Dear PFC users, hopefully someone has an answer and will see fit to respond to my questions. PFC 6 - n_cst_appmanager blows up when I attempt to inherit from it or even modify n_cst_appmanager itself and call it back up to reedit. Depending upon what chapter and verse in the PFC Foundation Class library, one is to either use it directly (chapter 3) or inherit from it (the tutorial). And, yes, I've regenned the pbl's. Some warnings; some errors. PB 6.0 Enterprise AND PB 6.0 Professional, Win95 and pentiums with 32 megs ram. PFC 5 - works like a charm with PB 5.0 Ent...

Migration from PFC 8 to PFC 11
I am trying to migrate application from PB 8 to PB 11.2, facing problem in PFC 8 to PFC 11 I am getting below error, please let me know how to migrate PFC 8 to PFC 11 Please let me know what to do ? ---------------------------error ------------ ---------- Compiler: Errors (4:28:16 PM) pfcwnsrv.pbl(pfc_n_cst_winsrv_sheetmanager).6: Error C0001: Illegal data type: n_cst_winsrv_sheetmanagerattrib pfcwnsrv.pbl(pfc_n_cst_winsrv_statusbar).65: Error C0001: Illegal data type: n_cst_winsrv_statusbarattrib pfcwnsrv.pbl(pfc_n_cst_resize).38: Error C0...

converting PFC 5 to PFC 10
Hi, I am upgrading my app that using PFC5 to PFC10. Before upgrade, existing PFC pbls are pfcapsrv, pfcmain,pfcwnsrv,pfcdwsrv,pfdapsrv,pfdmain,pfdwnsrv,pfddwsrv. I downloaded the latest PFC10 from code exchange.I overwrite the old PFC5 pbls with PFC10 pbls, they are pfcapsrv,pfcmain,pfcutil,pfcdwsrv,pfcwnsrv and with extra extension pbls,like pfeapsrv,pfedwsrv,pfemain,pfeutil,pfewnsrv. But, when i did a full build,i get below errors,warnings. Can anyone help comments, what to do to get rid of these? Many thanks. ----------------------------------------------------------------- --...

adding PFC to non PFC libraries
I have developed my applications without PFC, and now in trouble with the security and other functionality, is it possible for me to add the PFC to my current libraries and make use of other services like Application security service? can a non-pfc application becomes a pfc application half way thru? Syed. --- Sapura Advanced Systems Sdn. Bhd, 18th Floor, Menara Tun Razak, Jalan Raja Laut, 50350 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Tel: (03) 295-3472, (03) 294-3000 Fax: (03) 294-6587, (03) 293-3154 On Thu, 07 May 1998 15:15:59 +0800, in powersoft.public.powerbuilder.general Syed <sas@mas...

Upgrading PFC 6 to PFC 10
We use PFC, CORP & PFE in our application. The application was migrated from PB 6.5 to 8. We did not upgrade our PFC from 6.5 to PFC 8 but instead just migrated the PFC to PB 8. Now we are looking to migrate the app. from 8 to 10. So now instead of just migrating PFC code from 8 to 10 we want to actually upgrade the PFC 8(that was just migrated to 8 & NOT upgraded) to PFC 10. Can anyone tell or point to a documnet that tells of how to upgrade a PFC to PFC 10 & ultimatley upgrade the entire application to 10. I was able to just migrate the whole application (including the ...

Web resources about - To PFC or Not To PFC - sybase.powerbuilder.pfc

PFC CSKA Moscow - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
PFC Central Sport Club of the Army, Moscow ( Russian : Профессиональный футбольный клуб – ЦСКА ) is a Russian professional football club. It ...

PFC Auctions « Above the Law: A Legal Web Site – News, Commentary, and Opinions on Law Firms, Lawyers ...
Above the Law: A Legal Web Site – News, Commentary, and Opinions on Law Firms, Lawyers, Law School, Law Suits, Judges and Courts

PFC Manning to be Court-Martial’ed
... military justice story of, well, ever, the Commanding General of the Military District of Washington has referred all charges against PFC Bradley ...

PFC Most Valuable Energy Companies - Business Insider
Exxon isn't the only major player. Energy consulting firm PFC has released its annual ranking of the world's most valuable energy companies. ...

Pfc. Logan Burke « CBS New York
New York Radio.com CBS Local Sports CBS Sports Radio Tailgate Fan Atlanta Baltimore Boston Chicago Cleveland Connecticut Dallas Denver Detroit ...

Counselor: Pfc. Manning's past showed self-harm risk
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Fort Hood massacre: Pfc. Francheska Velez, 21, mourned at Chicago funeral
Army Pfc. Francheska Velez's death has had a ripple effect in Chicago's West Humboldt Park neighborhood.In the two weeks since the 21-year-old ...

Judge says she will announce Army Pfc. Bradley Manning's sentence at 10 a.m. EDT Wednesday
FORT MEADE, Md. (AP) &acirc;�� Judge says she will announce Army Pfc. Bradley Manning's sentence at 10 a.m. EDT Wednesday.

Pfc. Manning admits leaking classified material that 'upset' him to WikiLeaks
Pfc. Bradley Manning pleaded guilty Thursday to 10 charges against him in the WikiLeaks case, saying he leaked data that "upset" him.

No Justice, No Peace: Remembering Pfc. LaVena Johnson
... in Balad, Iraq in July, 2005. The United States Army ruled her death as a suicide resulting from a self-inflicted M-16 rifle shot wound. Pfc. ...

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