The Future of Powerbuilder #2

I work for a fortune 500 company who is looking at developing a client 
server software package. It is of course geared to be web enabled as well 
as normal client server. As a Powerbuilder and Visual Basic programmer for 
more than 8 years I believe that going with Powerbuilder on this project is 
a good decision, my colleagues and managers does not. It has been rumored 
for some time now that Powerbuilder is dying a slow but eminent death and 
I'm rather saddened by this since I personally feel Powerbuilder is a great 
tool to work with. I couldn't find any substantial information on your web 
page to help me convince people other wise and would greatly appreciate it 
if you can supply me with some specifications and information on where 
Sybase sees Powerbuilder in the future. Thank you in advance for your help.
0
contact_tentacle
11/25/2000 3:58:07 PM
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In article <40F0AB86974B436B0057B7DA852569A2.0057B7ED852569A2@webforums>, 
contact_tentacle@hotmail.com says...
> I work for a fortune 500 company who is looking at developing a client 
> server software package. It is of course geared to be web enabled as well 
> as normal client server. As a Powerbuilder and Visual Basic programmer for 
> more than 8 years I believe that going with Powerbuilder on this project is 
> a good decision, my colleagues and managers does not. It has been rumored 
> for some time now that Powerbuilder is dying a slow but eminent death and 
> I'm rather saddened by this since I personally feel Powerbuilder is a great 
> tool to work with. I couldn't find any substantial information on your web 
> page to help me convince people other wise and would greatly appreciate it 
> if you can supply me with some specifications and information on where 
> Sybase sees Powerbuilder in the future. Thank you in advance for your help.
> 
> 
PB is not going away anytime soon.  PB 8 is in beta and at thisyear's 
conference, it was stated that there is a PB 9 and 10 inthe works.
-- 

Andy Turiansky [TeamSybase]
Check out SDN @  http://sdn.sybase.com
0
Andrew
11/25/2000 11:36:51 PM
I dont agree that PB is gonna go away too soon.

I work in Sydney Australia and I receive daily job updates and i receive around
20 a day. Given that the US has a heap more development in PB I would assume it
is in the same boat.

Having said that, I have been working with PB/EAS to develop web applications
over the last twelve months and it has been excellent. Throwing PB components
into jaguar is seemless and they work fine.

If you have many years of experience in PB in a company, why would you throw
that all away overnight??? I would take the tact of purchasing a great product
like EAS, converting to n-tier and then plan on how you will tackle a move to
Java ( if its needed at all ). Java is now more than a buzz word, but there
still has to be benefits in coverting to Java or even writing new applications
in java.

We may get great paying jobs in 2049 when we have to fix all the applications
for date problems <g>

My $0.02 worth

Adam

contact_tentacle@hotmail.com wrote:

> I work for a fortune 500 company who is looking at developing a client
> server software package. It is of course geared to be web enabled as well
> as normal client server. As a Powerbuilder and Visual Basic programmer for
> more than 8 years I believe that going with Powerbuilder on this project is
> a good decision, my colleagues and managers does not. It has been rumored
> for some time now that Powerbuilder is dying a slow but eminent death and
> I'm rather saddened by this since I personally feel Powerbuilder is a great
> tool to work with. I couldn't find any substantial information on your web
> page to help me convince people other wise and would greatly appreciate it
> if you can supply me with some specifications and information on where
> Sybase sees Powerbuilder in the future. Thank you in advance for your help.

--
Adam Simmonds
Senior Developer
FlexSIS Project
Maze Crescent, Building G05
University of Sydney NSW  2006
Email: asimmond@mail.usyd.edu.au
Phone:  +61 2  9351 5174
Mb: 0403 341 474
Fax:  +61 2  9351 7711


0
Adam
11/26/2000 3:28:47 PM
Take a look at

http://my.sybase.com/detail/1,3693,1009639,00.html

regards,
Bill

contact_tentacle@hotmail.com wrote:

> I work for a fortune 500 company who is looking at developing a client
> server software package. It is of course geared to be web enabled as well
> as normal client server. As a Powerbuilder and Visual Basic programmer for
> more than 8 years I believe that going with Powerbuilder on this project is
> a good decision, my colleagues and managers does not. It has been rumored
> for some time now that Powerbuilder is dying a slow but eminent death and
> I'm rather saddened by this since I personally feel Powerbuilder is a great
> tool to work with. I couldn't find any substantial information on your web
> page to help me convince people other wise and would greatly appreciate it
> if you can supply me with some specifications and information on where
> Sybase sees Powerbuilder in the future. Thank you in advance for your help.

--
Bill Green[TeamSybase]
-----------------------------------------------------------
Good Links to know, good places to go:

News: Sybase Portal is live - Go http://my.sybase.com

Developer stuff on my.sybase.com
Find things like:
-- EAServer 3.6 maintenance release is available
-- PowerBuilder C3 maintenance release available (build 8046)
-- Components, White papers, articles and more
-- Web DataWindow Article Series (Author: Larry Cermak)
-- Jaguar Agent for Web Servers (HTTP access to PB components)

PFC Guide - http://www.pfcguide.com

Power3 - Custom Training  - http://www.power3.com
Bill Green @ Power3 - wgreen@power3.com
-----------------------------------------------------------


0
Bill
11/27/2000 2:28:24 PM
I also have concerns about PB's future!

We have a large customer that is buying into web technology for the future.
Today this customer has apps built using Pb and progress etc.. that are
deployed
virtually worldwide. They want to go to thin clients and decentralize the
db.
I will be on a team involved in the technology decisions from the beginning.

I am looking at various technologies including but not limited to the
following:
BEA weblogic
websphere
visual studio + the new ".NET" archictecture.
PB eas server + whatever else is needed to make this work.
MS IIS etc......

I would like to use the Sybase solution because that way I can leverage the
PB experience
that we have in our office. The problem is that if EAS doesn't take off will
we end up in the
same scenario we got with (install builder + object cycle etc...). Products
dropped with no migration strategy because SYBASE did not want to spend the
money to support them anymore (shifting focus).

I know that Microsoft supports products that don't make money because they
can afford to!
Sybase can't!

My boss is real gung ho on Microsoft and I love PB but the future is
uncertain and I know
a company like Microsoft will be here in the future.

I am still confused to as to what products I need from SYBASE in order to
build the future.
Jaguar?
EAS
PB
Dynamo

We are starting from scratch and it doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy when
I go to the
sybase website and can't make heads or tales of what I need and what does
what?????
It also may be that I am not the brightest bulb in the bunch :*)

Does anybody have any pointers to white papers etc... that I can research to
help me
and my colleagues on all this?


"Bill Green[TeamSybase]" <bill.green@teamsybase.com> wrote in message
news:3A226F88.426C0BEF@teamsybase.com...
> Take a look at
>
> http://my.sybase.com/detail/1,3693,1009639,00.html
>
> regards,
> Bill
>
> contact_tentacle@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > I work for a fortune 500 company who is looking at developing a client
> > server software package. It is of course geared to be web enabled as
well
> > as normal client server. As a Powerbuilder and Visual Basic programmer
for
> > more than 8 years I believe that going with Powerbuilder on this project
is
> > a good decision, my colleagues and managers does not. It has been
rumored
> > for some time now that Powerbuilder is dying a slow but eminent death
and
> > I'm rather saddened by this since I personally feel Powerbuilder is a
great
> > tool to work with. I couldn't find any substantial information on your
web
> > page to help me convince people other wise and would greatly appreciate
it
> > if you can supply me with some specifications and information on where
> > Sybase sees Powerbuilder in the future. Thank you in advance for your
help.
>
> --
> Bill Green[TeamSybase]
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Good Links to know, good places to go:
>
> News: Sybase Portal is live - Go http://my.sybase.com
>
> Developer stuff on my.sybase.com
> Find things like:
> -- EAServer 3.6 maintenance release is available
> -- PowerBuilder C3 maintenance release available (build 8046)
> -- Components, White papers, articles and more
> -- Web DataWindow Article Series (Author: Larry Cermak)
> -- Jaguar Agent for Web Servers (HTTP access to PB components)
>
> PFC Guide - http://www.pfcguide.com
>
> Power3 - Custom Training  - http://www.power3.com
> Bill Green @ Power3 - wgreen@power3.com
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
>


0
Roy
11/30/2000 7:47:04 PM
Roy,

See below...

"Roy C Wood" <woodrc@battelle.org> wrote in message
news:M2PJdhwWAHA.67@forums.sybase.com...
<snip>
> I am looking at various technologies including but not limited to the
> following:
> BEA weblogic

Do you have sufficient Java experience in your team? If not, factor learning
curve and training into your cost.

> websphere

Same as above.

> visual studio + the new ".NET" archictecture.

What is your projected start date?
Are you willing to risk beginning development on a beta-1 product?
What .NET language(s) are you considering? Factor learning curve and
training into your cost (even more so than Java, simply because your
selection of training courses and/or reference books is almost non-existant,
and is unlikely to grow before MS reaches the RC stage.

> PB eas server + whatever else is needed to make this work.
> MS IIS etc......

IIS is a good web server. You can use it regardless of what application
server you select. It should not be a deciding factor IMHO.

> I would like to use the Sybase solution because that way I can leverage
the PB experience
> that we have in our office. The problem is that if EAS doesn't take off
will we end up in the
> same scenario we got with (install builder + object cycle etc...).
Products dropped with no
> migration strategy because SYBASE did not want to spend the
> money to support them anymore (shifting focus).

EAServer will not be dropped (in the forseeable future) -- it is Sybase's
flagship product. InstallBuilder and ObjectCycle were complimentory
products, not revenue generators.

> My boss is real gung ho on Microsoft and I love PB but the future is
> uncertain and I know a company like Microsoft will be here in the future.

That's a classic mistake of non-thinking managers. Enlighten them!

> I am still confused to as to what products I need from SYBASE in order to
> build the future.
> EAS
> Jaguar?
> Dynamo

Jaguar and Dynamo are a part of EAServer.

> PB

Definitely, to write Jaguar components and datawindows to be used as HTML
front-end.

> We are starting from scratch and it doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy
when
> I go to the sybase website and can't make heads or tales of what I need
and what does
> what?????

Contact Sybase professional services or one of Sybase's consulting partners
(e.g., Cynergy Systems, Corporate Technology Partners, PowerTeam, to name a
few). Look into the e-Map program.


--
<hopethishelps />
Roy Kiesler [TeamSybase]
mySybase - http://my.sybase.com



0
Roy
11/30/2000 8:44:30 PM
Yes I know that one of the major reasons software projects fail is becasue
of lack
of training!!!!! Yes, we will have to ramp up in JAVA and in web technology
in general.

Our project is slated to begin in January 2001 and last 2 years.
We don't have a plan yet!
We are just kind of looking at everything right now.
We already have the funding in the bank!

Are you available Roy?
We are right next door in Cambridge :*)


"Roy Kiesler [TeamSybase]" <SPAM_FREE_roy.kiesler@teamsybase.com> wrote in
message news:zBFZgBxWAHA.67@forums.sybase.com...
> Roy,
>
> See below...
>
> "Roy C Wood" <woodrc@battelle.org> wrote in message
> news:M2PJdhwWAHA.67@forums.sybase.com...
> <snip>
> > I am looking at various technologies including but not limited to the
> > following:
> > BEA weblogic
>
> Do you have sufficient Java experience in your team? If not, factor
learning
> curve and training into your cost.
>
> > websphere
>
> Same as above.
>
> > visual studio + the new ".NET" archictecture.
>
> What is your projected start date?
> Are you willing to risk beginning development on a beta-1 product?
> What .NET language(s) are you considering? Factor learning curve and
> training into your cost (even more so than Java, simply because your
> selection of training courses and/or reference books is almost
non-existant,
> and is unlikely to grow before MS reaches the RC stage.
>
> > PB eas server + whatever else is needed to make this work.
> > MS IIS etc......
>
> IIS is a good web server. You can use it regardless of what application
> server you select. It should not be a deciding factor IMHO.
>
> > I would like to use the Sybase solution because that way I can leverage
> the PB experience
> > that we have in our office. The problem is that if EAS doesn't take off
> will we end up in the
> > same scenario we got with (install builder + object cycle etc...).
> Products dropped with no
> > migration strategy because SYBASE did not want to spend the
> > money to support them anymore (shifting focus).
>
> EAServer will not be dropped (in the forseeable future) -- it is Sybase's
> flagship product. InstallBuilder and ObjectCycle were complimentory
> products, not revenue generators.
>
> > My boss is real gung ho on Microsoft and I love PB but the future is
> > uncertain and I know a company like Microsoft will be here in the
future.
>
> That's a classic mistake of non-thinking managers. Enlighten them!
>
> > I am still confused to as to what products I need from SYBASE in order
to
> > build the future.
> > EAS
> > Jaguar?
> > Dynamo
>
> Jaguar and Dynamo are a part of EAServer.
>
> > PB
>
> Definitely, to write Jaguar components and datawindows to be used as HTML
> front-end.
>
> > We are starting from scratch and it doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy
> when
> > I go to the sybase website and can't make heads or tales of what I need
> and what does
> > what?????
>
> Contact Sybase professional services or one of Sybase's consulting
partners
> (e.g., Cynergy Systems, Corporate Technology Partners, PowerTeam, to name
a
> few). Look into the e-Map program.
>
>
> --
> <hopethishelps />
> Roy Kiesler [TeamSybase]
> mySybase - http://my.sybase.com
>
>
>


0
Roy
11/30/2000 9:12:26 PM
"Roy C Wood" <woodrc@battelle.org> wrote in message
news:b6Q4MRxWAHA.202@forums.sybase.com...
> Yes I know that one of the major reasons software projects fail is becasue
> of lack
> of training!!!!! Yes, we will have to ramp up in JAVA and in web
technology
> in general.

.... and even more so if you consider .NET languages such as VB.NET or C#.

> Our project is slated to begin in January 2001 and last 2 years.

That rules out .NET, doesn't it? Even if you spend the first 3 months of the
project doing architecture and design, it would still be a serious risk to
go with a pre-release version of both IDE and app server.

> We don't have a plan yet!

Good! Tool selection should be an outcome of the architecture, not the other
way around. Gather requirements, design your application, and finally,
select the toolset that best addresses your specific needs.

> We already have the funding in the bank!

Good! Spend it wisely. Design first, then select the tools.

> Are you available Roy?
> We are right next door in Cambridge :*)

I don't work for Noblestar anymore -- I'm with Percussion right now, in
Stoneham, MA. If you need a content management solution (beware! our tool is
Java and XML-based), give me a buzz.


--
<hopethishelps />
Roy Kiesler [TeamSybase]
mySybase - http://my.sybase.com



0
Roy
11/30/2000 10:21:40 PM
Why do you think that EAS has not taken off? According to GIGA/Gartner, EAS
ranks third in market share, 1% behind IBM's Websphere and both Sybase and IBM
have been gaining ground on Weblogic. EAS is the base for several key products
at Sybase (Financial Fusion, Enterprise Portal etc) and as such, I don't think
it will be going away anytime soon (like maybe never). None of the other
solutions offer the PowerBuilder support you want to leverage. The other
products do not support the same level of openness as EAServer, (Java, CORBA,
COM etc), and are way behind in terms of J2EE certification (if that's important
to you). Of the big three, only Sybase is shipping a J2EE certified version (or
at least will be by next week). BEA's certified version is currently in Beta,
and last I heard was slated for Q2 release next year. I've not heard if IBM is
even planning on certification or not. And of course, MS supports MS and that's
it.

What you need in terms of Sybase products is EAServer (and PB if you plan to use
PB). EAServer is a bundle that includes Jaguar, PowerDynamo, PowerSite and
PowerJ. Jaguar is the key element as it is the application server. It supports
JSP Pages, Servlets, EJB's, COM, CORBA, PB etc etc. Dynamo is a dynamic page
server that hooks into a web-server and gives you pretty much an ASP equivalent
that can talk Java. PowerSite and PowerJ are the HTML and Java editing tools
that Sybase has, but you could use any tools you want to do HTML and/or Java.

There is a white paper that I wrote (should be up on Sybase's website, or you
can get it from mine, www.power3.com), that talks about taking applications to
the web, and I'd recommend looking at the Cynergy EAS Framework (it's free) for
PowerBuilder. It will help you develop PB components for Jaguar really quickly.


regards,
Bill Green

Roy C Wood wrote:

> I also have concerns about PB's future!
>
> We have a large customer that is buying into web technology for the future.
> Today this customer has apps built using Pb and progress etc.. that are
> deployed
> virtually worldwide. They want to go to thin clients and decentralize the
> db.
> I will be on a team involved in the technology decisions from the beginning.
>
> I am looking at various technologies including but not limited to the
> following:
> BEA weblogic
> websphere
> visual studio + the new ".NET" archictecture.
> PB eas server + whatever else is needed to make this work.
> MS IIS etc......
>
> I would like to use the Sybase solution because that way I can leverage the
> PB experience
> that we have in our office. The problem is that if EAS doesn't take off will
> we end up in the
> same scenario we got with (install builder + object cycle etc...). Products
> dropped with no migration strategy because SYBASE did not want to spend the
> money to support them anymore (shifting focus).
>
> I know that Microsoft supports products that don't make money because they
> can afford to!
> Sybase can't!
>
> My boss is real gung ho on Microsoft and I love PB but the future is
> uncertain and I know
> a company like Microsoft will be here in the future.
>
> I am still confused to as to what products I need from SYBASE in order to
> build the future.
> Jaguar?
> EAS
> PB
> Dynamo
>
> We are starting from scratch and it doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy when
> I go to the
> sybase website and can't make heads or tales of what I need and what does
> what?????
> It also may be that I am not the brightest bulb in the bunch :*)
>
> Does anybody have any pointers to white papers etc... that I can research to
> help me
> and my colleagues on all this?
>
> "Bill Green[TeamSybase]" <bill.green@teamsybase.com> wrote in message
> news:3A226F88.426C0BEF@teamsybase.com...
> > Take a look at
> >
> > http://my.sybase.com/detail/1,3693,1009639,00.html
> >
> > regards,
> > Bill
> >
> > contact_tentacle@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > I work for a fortune 500 company who is looking at developing a client
> > > server software package. It is of course geared to be web enabled as
> well
> > > as normal client server. As a Powerbuilder and Visual Basic programmer
> for
> > > more than 8 years I believe that going with Powerbuilder on this project
> is
> > > a good decision, my colleagues and managers does not. It has been
> rumored
> > > for some time now that Powerbuilder is dying a slow but eminent death
> and
> > > I'm rather saddened by this since I personally feel Powerbuilder is a
> great
> > > tool to work with. I couldn't find any substantial information on your
> web
> > > page to help me convince people other wise and would greatly appreciate
> it
> > > if you can supply me with some specifications and information on where
> > > Sybase sees Powerbuilder in the future. Thank you in advance for your
> help.
> >
> > --
> > Bill Green[TeamSybase]
> > -----------------------------------------------------------
> > Good Links to know, good places to go:
> >
> > News: Sybase Portal is live - Go http://my.sybase.com
> >
> > Developer stuff on my.sybase.com
> > Find things like:
> > -- EAServer 3.6 maintenance release is available
> > -- PowerBuilder C3 maintenance release available (build 8046)
> > -- Components, White papers, articles and more
> > -- Web DataWindow Article Series (Author: Larry Cermak)
> > -- Jaguar Agent for Web Servers (HTTP access to PB components)
> >
> > PFC Guide - http://www.pfcguide.com
> >
> > Power3 - Custom Training  - http://www.power3.com
> > Bill Green @ Power3 - wgreen@power3.com
> > -----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >

--
Bill Green[TeamSybase]
-----------------------------------------------------------
Good Links to know, good places to go:

News: Sybase Portal is live - Go http://my.sybase.com

Developer stuff on my.sybase.com
Find things like:
-- EAServer 3.6 maintenance release is available
-- PowerBuilder C3 maintenance release available (build 8046)
-- Components, White papers, articles and more
-- Web DataWindow Article Series (Author: Larry Cermak)
-- Jaguar Agent for Web Servers (HTTP access to PB components)

PFC Guide - http://www.pfcguide.com

Power3 - Custom Training  - http://www.power3.com
Bill Green @ Power3 - wgreen@power3.com
-----------------------------------------------------------


0
Bill
12/1/2000 3:14:09 PM
Reply:

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Hello! Earlier this year, I came across an article in one of the weekly industry newspapers that stated that Sybase was telling major customers that PowerBuilder will be discontinued after version 8.0. (I can't remember which newspaper had the story and I can't seem locate it by doing a Google search. But I'm not making this up - I really did see it.) At the PowerBuilder Information Site ( www.justpbinfo.com ) I came across the following article: ------------------------------------------------ The Future of PowerBuilder Is there life after PowerBuilder 8? Rum...

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I wonder what is the future of PB. I have just saw an article which Jhon Chen (Sybase CEO) says the following: According to Chen the company had become over-diversified, and lost sight of its core competencies. "A lot of our businesses were very inefficient," he explains. "I was asking, 'why are you doing this?' You know we had an SAP consulting business - what for? We had a product that competed with Microsoft Visual Basic - what for? I had to get rid of some bits and pieces." In my understanding, the only Sybase product that have competed with VB is...

The future of PowerBuilder...
That subject line should get your attention. <g> I'm very pleased with the participation in this group. We've obviously provided a well for a very thirsty group of developers! As you may or may not know, PB 9 is about to go into Beta and the feature set has pretty much been frozen. I know a lot of these requests are for very useful features and hopefully many will some day be incorporated into PB. I don't know what can be done for PB 9 at this point. Just don't want to falsely get people's hopes up. What I would like to do, is raise the discussion to a h...

The future of Powerbuilder
I am looking for opinions and viewpoints. I think Powerbuilder has 2 distinct and quite different markets. The small to medium sized software market and corporate IT market. In the software market where results are easy to measure on the bottom line I think PB is doing just fine. The productivity, efficiency and swift development process suites that market just fine. Just keep your customers happy. I am amazed at what I have seen in PB based software packages considering the total lack of documentation. That speaks volume on the capabilities of PB if you just get into it. O...

Future of Powerbuilder
Hi, Has anyone seen the article in computerworld issue of sep 27th 1999 - The Future of Powerbuilder? Looks like it is time to jump out of the ship! Thanks ComputerWorld!!! What a piece of .... I haven't read the article, but I don't have to. I had a subscription to ComputerWorld once. ComputerWorld was one of the biggest fans of the Apple is dead movement. Guess they were wrong there... The journalism in that magazine is terrible. Over the course of a year subscription, I read most of the articles for about six months. Then I threw it away until the subscription ...

Future of Powerbuilder
Hello Every one!!, Could any body tell me for how long the demand for powerbuilder programmer exists... the recent trend shows everything is going on to be web dependendent. I'm bit worried ab't security of my job.. i'm with PB since the release of Ver.4.0.. and bit reluctant to leave PB now. could anybody suggest me whether should i move on to Java or simillar techonologies or should i get along with PB?? Please respond to me... Thanks!! Regards, Dhawan. It never hurts to expand your skillset by picking up new languages. PowerBuilder is still going strong, Syb...

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