Hi there,

since there are so many troubles with PB 6.0, does anyone know if there
are any bugfixes for PB 6.0 out yet or even planned for the NEAR future?

Is there a way to migrate back from PB 6.0 to PB 5.0.0x?

Regards,
* gerald *

You sound pretty upset - if you don't mind me asking what are these troubles
you are having?

Gerald Znidaric wrote in message <34C86F5A.778A0197@mgm-edv.de>...
>Hi there,
>
>since there are so many troubles with PB 6.0, does anyone know if there
>are any bugfixes for PB 6.0 out yet or even planned for the NEAR future?
>
>Is there a way to migrate back from PB 6.0 to PB 5.0.0x?
>
>Regards,
>* gerald *
>
>

Gerald -

>> since there are so many troubles with PB 6.0, does anyone know if 
there are any bugfixes for PB 6.0 out yet or even planned for the NEAR 
future? <<

Problems you are encountering or just hearing about?  I would say that if 
they are yours and a major, then contact Tech Support for help. They are 
the ones who will give you any fixes they have, if they can w/o 
corrupting other parts.  Sure, Sybase will issues maint. releases for 
their product. 

>> Is there a way to migrate back from PB 6.0 to PB 5.0.0x? << 
Sorry, hope you made a backup before the migration. 

Sorry, not the response you wanted,
Mark

-- 
*** Are You Ready For The Web? ***
*** www.JumpStart98.com ***

Mark Pfeifer[Team Powersoft]
mpfeifer@sprynet.com
www.ctpartners.com

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Michael,
for me working with PB 6.0 is quite frustrating. I migrated an application from
PB 5.0.02 to 6.0 without any problems or error messages. - I made some minor
changes to the application (no excessive use of any new features, just the same
stuff as before!). And now there are Read exceptions (tried to access illegal
address) all the time. I cannot even debug my application, because the debugger
crashes as well.

One of the reasons for such a Read exception was: I MOVED a computed field
within a datawindow (no other changes to the datawindow!) and since then I never
managed to retrieve data with it any more, but all I retrieve is a Read
exception (luckily I have a backup, so I can use the old version).

As you can see in this newsgroup as well as in the "datawindow" newsgroup, other
people have lots of troubles as well.

Maybe my problems are very specific, since I didn't read any similar news.
Anyway, I don't think that I can continue working with PB 6.0. It's too time
consuming and I have other things to do than restarting PB all the time.

Regards,
* gerald *


Michael Everett wrote:

> You sound pretty upset - if you don't mind me asking what are these troubles
> you are having?
>
> Gerald Znidaric wrote in message <34C86F5A.778A0197@mgm-edv.de>...
> >Hi there,
> >
> >since there are so many troubles with PB 6.0, does anyone know if there
> >are any bugfixes for PB 6.0 out yet or even planned for the NEAR future?
> >
> >Is there a way to migrate back from PB 6.0 to PB 5.0.0x?
> >
> >Regards,
> >* gerald *
> >
> >



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Mark Pfeifer[TeamPS] wrote:

> Problems you are encountering or just hearing about?  I would say that if
> they are yours and a major, then contact Tech Support for help. They are
> the ones who will give you any fixes they have, if they can w/o
> corrupting other parts.  Sure, Sybase will issues maint. releases for
> their product.
>
> >> Is there a way to migrate back from PB 6.0 to PB 5.0.0x? <<
> Sorry, hope you made a backup before the migration.

Mark,

Your reply seems to indicate that you are unaware of specific "Show Stopper"
bugs that are preventing many PB5 apps from being migrated to PB6.  I thought
you team PS guys had better inside info than that.  :-)

For the record, here's 1 that has us stopped cold, that has been reported to
Tech Support and assigned a bug number, and that they tell us is "top
priority" and to call back every few weeks to check on it:

Group style datawindows with objects in the group header bands don't keep the
group header at the top of the datawindow as you scroll.  The visual data
presentation gets scrambled as you scroll.

This bug seems to have been introduced very late in the beta cycle.  I didn't
notice it till RC3.  In our shop, as we move towards final release, the ratio
between code changes and testing shifts dramatically in favor of testing.
Seems like there needs to be a greater emphasis on that for the next PB
release.

The moral of the story for Gerald (and the rest of us) is:
1. (As you say, and as PS suggests: NEVER migrate your original libraries.
Always work with copies.)
2. Never destroy your pre-migration libraries.
3. Don't assume that because the migration worked, everything is fine.  Test
like crazy!

Gerald, if by some stroke of luck, the reason you wanted to reverse-migrate
is just to avoid identifiying and re-coding recent substantial changes to the
app made with PB6 in the PB5 version, try exporting the objects from both
versions and using a "diff" utility to help you identifiy the differences.
I've had to do this a few times.

Regards,
Mark Rosenthal

Mark -

I am aware of several issues with PB 6.0. However, some people see
the problems listed on the forums and decide not to migrate. Not every 
app will be affected by the problems. So I just don't think it is fair to 
jump on the bandwagon and state - do not migrate to PB 6.0. 
Unfortunately, not a lot of people post success stories. My client's 
application migrate just fine and they were able to work with the 
application in PB 6.0.

In addition, the forums can not give you the maint. fixes you need. Only 
Sybase can do that.

Hope this clarifies my response...

Mark


-- 
*** Are You Ready For The Web? ***
*** www.JumpStart98.com ***

Mark Pfeifer[Team Powersoft]
mpfeifer@sprynet.com
www.ctpartners.com

Mark,
    Just for the record, I have migrated 3 apps. to 6.0 with NO
difficulty. Two of these apps. are in production and the other is in
final testing and should be in production this coming week.  
    The two apps. already in production are not huge but they have many
of the commonly used PB features in them, i.e. custom error object, 3
database connections(two different DBMSs), reports, many NVOs, etc., and
I have not seen any problems.  The third app. is much bigger and so far
no problems there either. 
     My intent is not to make light of Mark's problem, but I have been
in this business for a little while and I am hard-pressed to think of
any software that does not have a problem or two introduced with a
release that was not present in the prior release.  Therefore, while I
believe it is important to keep the pressure on Powersoft(Sybase) to
work hard at quality control, I also think it is a little naive to find
one problem, identify it as a show stopper, and trash the product.
     If we developers were held to this same scrutiny I dare say there
would be few, if any, custom built client server applications in
production today. 

   
Mark Pfeifer[TeamPS] wrote:
> 
> Mark -
> 
> I am aware of several issues with PB 6.0. However, some people see
> the problems listed on the forums and decide not to migrate. Not every
> app will be affected by the problems. So I just don't think it is fair to
> jump on the bandwagon and state - do not migrate to PB 6.0.
> Unfortunately, not a lot of people post success stories. My client's
> application migrate just fine and they were able to work with the
> application in PB 6.0.
> 
> In addition, the forums can not give you the maint. fixes you need. Only
> Sybase can do that.
> 
> Hope this clarifies my response...
> 
> Mark
> 
> --
> *** Are You Ready For The Web? ***
> *** www.JumpStart98.com ***
> 
> Mark Pfeifer[Team Powersoft]
> mpfeifer@sprynet.com
> www.ctpartners.com

It's not recommended, but *in theory* there is a way. Assuming you
have not used any PB6 specific code, object types or attributes (more
on this later), you can:
- export all objects from PB6 PBLs
- use ORCA's function CompileEntryImportList in PB5 on all the export
files
Note that this ORCA function is not the same as the Library Painter
Import function. You'll need a C program to implement this function,
or some utility that implements a CompileEntryImportList. 

You should be warned that you or PB may have inadvertently introduced
an attribute that is PB6 specific (e.g. that your datawindow does not
have a print button). 

This isn't straightforward or easy, but it is possible. I've done it a
couple of times during the beta cycle.

Good luck,

Terry [TeamPS] and Sequel the techno-kitten

On Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:22:18 +0100, Gerald Znidaric
<Gerald.Znidaric@mgm-edv.de> wrote:

>Is there a way to migrate back from PB 6.0 to PB 5.0.0x?

Hi George,

I didn't mean to sound like I was trashing the product.
Believe it or not, I am a PB enthusiast.
And I am glad to hear your apps have made it across.
However...
Given the kind of problems I have run into so far, I have to believe
that many substantial apps can't work yet on PB 6.
You can get a complete list of the "showstoppers"
( And I give PowerSoft great credit for making the info public ) online.

I don't believe it is naive to expect better from PowerSoft.
If I relase a new version of an application that breaks something
that worked before, I'm in big trouble.  We have a testing approach,
that when done properly, keeps the chances for this pretty slim.
So if it happens, chances are, I didn't follow the testing plan.

The problem for us as PB enthusiasts, is that other developers in
our organization are starting to use other development tools that
are seen as more "up-to-date, leading edge, etc.".  I usually counter
these arguments by dragging out reference documentation and
asking "How do you do this or that (usually related to database interaction)
in your tool?".  But there is no hiding from schedule slips caused
by bugs in the tool.

If PB is going to avoid becoming seen as an "old technology that was
good in the Client-Server heyday", PowerSoft is going to have to deliver
significant new features and quality at a level equivalent to the
"VB-everywhere", "Java-everywhere" competition.

As a user of multiple development tools who still likes PowerBuilder the
best, I have to say that in my opinion, that didn't happen with PB6.
PB5 (although not perfect) demonstrated that PS can do much better.

Let's encourge PB to live up to its potential next time.

Regards,
Mark Rosenthal

George Walker wrote in message <34CA33A8.2A9AD1E8@fast.net>...
>Mark,
>    Just for the record, I have migrated 3 apps. to 6.0 with NO
>difficulty. Two of these apps. are in production and the other is in
>final testing and should be in production this coming week.
.... More ...
>Therefore, while I
>believe it is important to keep the pressure on Powersoft(Sybase) to
>work hard at quality control, I also think it is a little naive to find
>one problem, identify it as a show stopper, and trash the product.
>     If we developers were held to this same scrutiny I dare say there
>would be few, if any, custom built client server applications in
>production today.
>
>

Mark,
Your point(s) are well taken.

Try as I might, I cannot find the list of "showstoppers" on the Powersoft
site.  In fact I don't see anything even resembling that.  Would you please
point me in the right direction???

P.S. As you may have guessed, I too think PB is a great tool.  I have used
VB some and it doesn't hold a candle to PB in my opinion.  Even for small
apps. which is what some tout as one of it's strengths over PB.  I
personally find it VERY easy to create small apps. with PB.  And if an
organization, or person, has been building reusable objects it is even
simpler.  As far as other tools... the few that come to mind do not have
near enough industry use and/or support to even consider.
I agree, their testing is not thorough enough, period.  At the conference
they said that the reason for fewer releases in the future was so they could
improve the quality of releases.  Time will tell.

Thanks.

George,
Here it is:

http://info.sybase.com/cgi-bin/folioisa.dll/techbull.nfo/query=?realquerydlg

George A. Walker wrote in message ...
>Mark,
>Your point(s) are well taken.
>
>Try as I might, I cannot find the list of "showstoppers" on the Powersoft
>site

Acutally, it's just the current tech bulletin that contains open bugs.

Thanks again to Powersoft for making this available and to
Steven Dupre for publishing it.

Regards,
Mark Rosenthal