mixin syntax: does vs but

I thought this would work to make a copy of @x but with the role
"LookInside" attached to it:

   my @y = @x but LookInside;

But that didn't add the role to @y. E.g.

  say @y.^WHAT

Would just report (Array), not (Array+{LookInside}).

I found that this would do what I was trying to do though:

   my @y = @x;
   @y does LookInside;

I didn't think there would be any difference between the two
though.  What am I not getting?

The full code looks like this:

trial_introspect.pl6:

  use v6;
  use Trial::Introspect;
  my @x = <wuhn tew thuree foah fahv sex>;
  my @y = @x;
  @y does LookInside;
  say "Methods: ";
  say @y.methodical_methods;


..../Trial/Introspect.pm6:

  role LookInside {
    method methodical_methods {
      self.^methods.map({ .gist }).sort.unique.map({ "$_\n" }).grep({
! /^Method/ });
    }
  }
0
doomvox
6/12/2018 7:06:09 AM
perl.perl6.users 1058 articles. 0 followers. Follow

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Use binding:

my @x=3D <1 2 3>; my @y :=3D @x but Iterable; say @y.^name; #  OUTPUT:
=C2=ABArray+{Iterable}=E2=90=A4=C2=BB

El mar., 12 jun. 2018 a las 9:06, Joseph Brenner (<doomvox@gmail.com>)
escribi=C3=B3:

> I thought this would work to make a copy of @x but with the role
> "LookInside" attached to it:
>
>    my @y =3D @x but LookInside;
>
> But that didn't add the role to @y. E.g.
>
>   say @y.^WHAT
>
> Would just report (Array), not (Array+{LookInside}).
>
> I found that this would do what I was trying to do though:
>
>    my @y =3D @x;
>    @y does LookInside;
>
> I didn't think there would be any difference between the two
> though.  What am I not getting?
>
> The full code looks like this:
>
> trial_introspect.pl6:
>
>   use v6;
>   use Trial::Introspect;
>   my @x =3D <wuhn tew thuree foah fahv sex>;
>   my @y =3D @x;
>   @y does LookInside;
>   say "Methods: ";
>   say @y.methodical_methods;
>
>
> .../Trial/Introspect.pm6:
>
>   role LookInside {
>     method methodical_methods {
>       self.^methods.map({ .gist }).sort.unique.map({ "$_\n" }).grep({
> ! /^Method/ });
>     }
>   }
>


--=20
JJ

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Use binding:</div><div><br></div><div>my @x=3D &lt;1 =
2 3&gt;; my @y :=3D @x but Iterable; say @y.^name; #=C2=A0 OUTPUT: =C2=ABAr=
ray+{Iterable}=E2=90=A4=C2=BB=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <br></div></div><br><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">El mar., 12 jun. 2018 a las 9:06=
, Joseph Brenner (&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:doomvox@gmail.com">doomvox@gmail.co=
m</a>&gt;) escribi=C3=B3:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I though=
t this would work to make a copy of @x but with the role<br>
&quot;LookInside&quot; attached to it:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0my @y =3D @x but LookInside;<br>
<br>
But that didn&#39;t add the role to @y. E.g.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 say @y.^WHAT<br>
<br>
Would just report (Array), not (Array+{LookInside}).<br>
<br>
I found that this would do what I was trying to do though:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0my @y =3D @x;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0@y does LookInside;<br>
<br>
I didn&#39;t think there would be any difference between the two<br>
though.=C2=A0 What am I not getting?<br>
<br>
The full code looks like this:<br>
<br>
trial_introspect.pl6:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 use v6;<br>
=C2=A0 use Trial::Introspect;<br>
=C2=A0 my @x =3D &lt;wuhn tew thuree foah fahv sex&gt;;<br>
=C2=A0 my @y =3D @x;<br>
=C2=A0 @y does LookInside;<br>
=C2=A0 say &quot;Methods: &quot;;<br>
=C2=A0 say @y.methodical_methods;<br>
<br>
<br>
..../Trial/Introspect.pm6:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 role LookInside {<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 method methodical_methods {<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 self.^methods.map({ .gist }).sort.unique.map({ &quot;$=
_\n&quot; }).grep({<br>
! /^Method/ });<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }<br>
=C2=A0 }<br>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"g=
mail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature">JJ</div>

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0
jjmerelo
6/12/2018 7:09:57 AM
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(also: ask questions in StackOverflow whenever possible :-) )

El mar., 12 jun. 2018 a las 9:09, JJ Merelo (<jjmerelo@gmail.com>) escribi=
=C3=B3:

> Use binding:
>
> my @x=3D <1 2 3>; my @y :=3D @x but Iterable; say @y.^name; #  OUTPUT:
> =C2=ABArray+{Iterable}=E2=90=A4=C2=BB
>
> El mar., 12 jun. 2018 a las 9:06, Joseph Brenner (<doomvox@gmail.com>)
> escribi=C3=B3:
>
>> I thought this would work to make a copy of @x but with the role
>> "LookInside" attached to it:
>>
>>    my @y =3D @x but LookInside;
>>
>> But that didn't add the role to @y. E.g.
>>
>>   say @y.^WHAT
>>
>> Would just report (Array), not (Array+{LookInside}).
>>
>> I found that this would do what I was trying to do though:
>>
>>    my @y =3D @x;
>>    @y does LookInside;
>>
>> I didn't think there would be any difference between the two
>> though.  What am I not getting?
>>
>> The full code looks like this:
>>
>> trial_introspect.pl6:
>>
>>   use v6;
>>   use Trial::Introspect;
>>   my @x =3D <wuhn tew thuree foah fahv sex>;
>>   my @y =3D @x;
>>   @y does LookInside;
>>   say "Methods: ";
>>   say @y.methodical_methods;
>>
>>
>> .../Trial/Introspect.pm6:
>>
>>   role LookInside {
>>     method methodical_methods {
>>       self.^methods.map({ .gist }).sort.unique.map({ "$_\n" }).grep({
>> ! /^Method/ });
>>     }
>>   }
>>
>
>
> --
> JJ
>


--=20
JJ

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<div dir=3D"ltr">(also: ask questions in StackOverflow whenever possible :-=
) )<br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">El mar., 12 ju=
n. 2018 a las 9:09, JJ Merelo (&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jjmerelo@gmail.com">jj=
merelo@gmail.com</a>&gt;) escribi=C3=B3:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left=
:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Use binding:</div><div><br></div><div>my @x=3D =
&lt;1 2 3&gt;; my @y :=3D @x but Iterable; say @y.^name; #=C2=A0 OUTPUT: =
=C2=ABArray+{Iterable}=E2=90=A4=C2=BB=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <br></div></d=
iv><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">El mar., 12 jun. 2018 a =
las 9:06, Joseph Brenner (&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:doomvox@gmail.com">doomvox@=
gmail.com</a>&gt;) escribi=C3=B3:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I=
 thought this would work to make a copy of @x but with the role<br>
&quot;LookInside&quot; attached to it:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0my @y =3D @x but LookInside;<br>
<br>
But that didn&#39;t add the role to @y. E.g.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 say @y.^WHAT<br>
<br>
Would just report (Array), not (Array+{LookInside}).<br>
<br>
I found that this would do what I was trying to do though:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0my @y =3D @x;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0@y does LookInside;<br>
<br>
I didn&#39;t think there would be any difference between the two<br>
though.=C2=A0 What am I not getting?<br>
<br>
The full code looks like this:<br>
<br>
trial_introspect.pl6:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 use v6;<br>
=C2=A0 use Trial::Introspect;<br>
=C2=A0 my @x =3D &lt;wuhn tew thuree foah fahv sex&gt;;<br>
=C2=A0 my @y =3D @x;<br>
=C2=A0 @y does LookInside;<br>
=C2=A0 say &quot;Methods: &quot;;<br>
=C2=A0 say @y.methodical_methods;<br>
<br>
<br>
..../Trial/Introspect.pm6:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 role LookInside {<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 method methodical_methods {<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 self.^methods.map({ .gist }).sort.unique.map({ &quot;$=
_\n&quot; }).grep({<br>
! /^Method/ });<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }<br>
=C2=A0 }<br>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"g=
mail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature">JJ</div></blockquote></d=
iv><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" =
data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature">JJ</div>

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0
jjmerelo
6/12/2018 7:10:14 AM
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You really do want to be exclusionary, don't you?

yada yada stackoverflow is the one truth yada yada.

Enough.

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 3:12 AM JJ Merelo <jjmerelo@gmail.com> wrote:

> (also: ask questions in StackOverflow whenever possible :-) )
>
> El mar., 12 jun. 2018 a las 9:09, JJ Merelo (<jjmerelo@gmail.com>)
> escribi=C3=B3:
>
>> Use binding:
>>
>> my @x=3D <1 2 3>; my @y :=3D @x but Iterable; say @y.^name; #  OUTPUT:
>> =C2=ABArray+{Iterable}=E2=90=A4=C2=BB
>>
>> El mar., 12 jun. 2018 a las 9:06, Joseph Brenner (<doomvox@gmail.com>)
>> escribi=C3=B3:
>>
>>> I thought this would work to make a copy of @x but with the role
>>> "LookInside" attached to it:
>>>
>>>    my @y =3D @x but LookInside;
>>>
>>> But that didn't add the role to @y. E.g.
>>>
>>>   say @y.^WHAT
>>>
>>> Would just report (Array), not (Array+{LookInside}).
>>>
>>> I found that this would do what I was trying to do though:
>>>
>>>    my @y =3D @x;
>>>    @y does LookInside;
>>>
>>> I didn't think there would be any difference between the two
>>> though.  What am I not getting?
>>>
>>> The full code looks like this:
>>>
>>> trial_introspect.pl6:
>>>
>>>   use v6;
>>>   use Trial::Introspect;
>>>   my @x =3D <wuhn tew thuree foah fahv sex>;
>>>   my @y =3D @x;
>>>   @y does LookInside;
>>>   say "Methods: ";
>>>   say @y.methodical_methods;
>>>
>>>
>>> .../Trial/Introspect.pm6:
>>>
>>>   role LookInside {
>>>     method methodical_methods {
>>>       self.^methods.map({ .gist }).sort.unique.map({ "$_\n" }).grep({
>>> ! /^Method/ });
>>>     }
>>>   }
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> JJ
>>
>
>
> --
> JJ
>


--=20
brandon s allbery kf8nh                               sine nomine associate=
s
allbery.b@gmail.com                                  ballbery@sinenomine.ne=
t
unix, openafs, kerberos, infrastructure, xmonad        http://sinenomine.ne=
t

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<div dir=3D"ltr">You really do want to be exclusionary, don&#39;t you?<div>=
<br></div><div>yada yada stackoverflow is the one truth yada yada.</div><di=
v><br></div><div>Enough.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=
=3D"ltr">On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 3:12 AM JJ Merelo &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jj=
merelo@gmail.com">jjmerelo@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;p=
adding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">(also: ask questions in StackOverflow whe=
never possible :-) )<br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"lt=
r">El mar., 12 jun. 2018 a las 9:09, JJ Merelo (&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jjmer=
elo@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jjmerelo@gmail.com</a>&gt;) escribi=C3=B3:=
<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bord=
er-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Use binding:=
</div><div><br></div><div>my @x=3D &lt;1 2 3&gt;; my @y :=3D @x but Iterabl=
e; say @y.^name; #=C2=A0 OUTPUT: =C2=ABArray+{Iterable}=E2=90=A4=C2=BB=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr">El mar., 12 jun. 2018 a las 9:06, Joseph Brenner (&lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:doomvox@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">doomvox@gmail.com</a>&gt;) esc=
ribi=C3=B3:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 =
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I thought this would wo=
rk to make a copy of @x but with the role<br>
&quot;LookInside&quot; attached to it:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0my @y =3D @x but LookInside;<br>
<br>
But that didn&#39;t add the role to @y. E.g.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 say @y.^WHAT<br>
<br>
Would just report (Array), not (Array+{LookInside}).<br>
<br>
I found that this would do what I was trying to do though:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0my @y =3D @x;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0@y does LookInside;<br>
<br>
I didn&#39;t think there would be any difference between the two<br>
though.=C2=A0 What am I not getting?<br>
<br>
The full code looks like this:<br>
<br>
trial_introspect.pl6:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 use v6;<br>
=C2=A0 use Trial::Introspect;<br>
=C2=A0 my @x =3D &lt;wuhn tew thuree foah fahv sex&gt;;<br>
=C2=A0 my @y =3D @x;<br>
=C2=A0 @y does LookInside;<br>
=C2=A0 say &quot;Methods: &quot;;<br>
=C2=A0 say @y.methodical_methods;<br>
<br>
<br>
..../Trial/Introspect.pm6:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 role LookInside {<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 method methodical_methods {<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 self.^methods.map({ .gist }).sort.unique.map({ &quot;$=
_\n&quot; }).grep({<br>
! /^Method/ });<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }<br>
=C2=A0 }<br>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"m=
_7403386028679846909gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature">JJ<=
/div></blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"m_7403386028679846909gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature=
">JJ</div>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><div>brandon s allbery kf8nh =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sine nomine =
associates</div><div><a href=3D"mailto:allbery.b@gmail.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">allbery.b@gmail.com</a> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:ballbery@sinenomine.net" target=3D"_blank">ballbery@sinenomine=
..net</a></div><div>unix, openafs, kerberos, infrastructure, xmonad =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://sinenomine.net" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://sinenomine.net</a></div></div></div>

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allbery
6/12/2018 4:33:48 PM
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El mar., 12 jun. 2018 a las 18:34, Brandon Allbery (<allbery.b@gmail.com>)
escribi=C3=B3:

> You really do want to be exclusionary, don't you?
>
> yada yada stackoverflow is the one truth yada yada.
>

Well, it really helps newcomers to find answers to their problems. It's
well indexed, and it also raises visibility of the Perl6 language.

Cheers

JJ

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">El mar=
.., 12 jun. 2018 a las 18:34, Brandon Allbery (&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:allbery=
..b@gmail.com">allbery.b@gmail.com</a>&gt;) escribi=C3=B3:<br></div><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc s=
olid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">You really do want to be exclusiona=
ry, don&#39;t you?<div><br></div><div>yada yada stackoverflow is the one tr=
uth yada yada.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Well, it really =
helps newcomers to find answers to their problems. It&#39;s well indexed, a=
nd it also raises visibility of the Perl6 language.</div><div><br></div><di=
v>Cheers</div><div><br></div><div>JJ<br></div></div><br></div>

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jjmerelo
6/12/2018 4:51:33 PM
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Which doesn't change the fact that there's what amounts to an accessibility
issue.

Do you *really* want to tell some percentage of people that they must be
willing to use the One True Web Site, or else go away because they're not
wanted hereabouts? Because insisting all the time that "(also: ask
questions in StackOverflow whenever possible :-) )" is doing exactly that.

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 12:51 PM JJ Merelo <jjmerelo@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> El mar., 12 jun. 2018 a las 18:34, Brandon Allbery (<allbery.b@gmail.com>=
)
> escribi=C3=B3:
>
>> You really do want to be exclusionary, don't you?
>>
>> yada yada stackoverflow is the one truth yada yada.
>>
>
> Well, it really helps newcomers to find answers to their problems. It's
> well indexed, and it also raises visibility of the Perl6 language.
>
> Cheers
>
> JJ
>
>

--=20
brandon s allbery kf8nh                               sine nomine associate=
s
allbery.b@gmail.com                                  ballbery@sinenomine.ne=
t
unix, openafs, kerberos, infrastructure, xmonad        http://sinenomine.ne=
t

--000000000000085af4056e74be3b
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Which doesn&#39;t change the fact that there&#39;s what am=
ounts to an accessibility issue.<div><br></div><div>Do you *really* want to=
 tell some percentage of people that they must be willing to use the One Tr=
ue Web Site, or else go away because they&#39;re not wanted hereabouts? Bec=
ause insisting all the time that=C2=A0&quot;(also: ask questions in StackOv=
erflow whenever possible :-) )&quot; is doing exactly that.</div></div><br>=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 12:51 P=
M JJ Merelo &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jjmerelo@gmail.com">jjmerelo@gmail.com</a=
>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0=
 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><=
br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">El mar., 12 jun. 2018 a las =
18:34, Brandon Allbery (&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:allbery.b@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">allbery.b@gmail.com</a>&gt;) escribi=C3=B3:<br></div><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc sol=
id;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">You really do want to be exclusionary=
, don&#39;t you?<div><br></div><div>yada yada stackoverflow is the one trut=
h yada yada.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Well, it really he=
lps newcomers to find answers to their problems. It&#39;s well indexed, and=
 it also raises visibility of the Perl6 language.</div><div><br></div><div>=
Cheers</div><div><br></div><div>JJ<br></div></div><br></div>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><div>brandon s allbery kf8nh =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sine nomine =
associates</div><div><a href=3D"mailto:allbery.b@gmail.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">allbery.b@gmail.com</a> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:ballbery@sinenomine.net" target=3D"_blank">ballbery@sinenomine=
..net</a></div><div>unix, openafs, kerberos, infrastructure, xmonad =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://sinenomine.net" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://sinenomine.net</a></div></div></div>

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allbery
6/12/2018 4:55:56 PM
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Hi

El mar., 12 jun. 2018 a las 18:56, Brandon Allbery (<allbery.b@gmail.com>)
escribi=C3=B3:

> Which doesn't change the fact that there's what amounts to an
> accessibility issue.
>
> Do you *really* want to tell some percentage of people that they must be
> willing to use the One True Web Site, or else go away because they're not
> wanted hereabouts? Because insisting all the time that "(also: ask
> questions in StackOverflow whenever possible :-) )" is doing exactly that=
..
>


Sorry, I don't understand what you mean here. We're very happy with
questions here, and I (and everyone else) answer them whenever I can. We
ask people to *also* post them in StackOverflow if they have an account,
and want, and have the time to do so, because I personally think it helps
expand Perl6's community. It's OK if they don't. I posted the rationale
after that here
http://blogs.perl.org/users/jj_merelo/2018/04/stackoverflow-that.html I'm
sorry if it sounds like kicking people out of here, because that wasn't
really the intention.

JJ

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">El m=
ar., 12 jun. 2018 a las 18:56, Brandon Allbery (&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:allbe=
ry.b@gmail.com">allbery.b@gmail.com</a>&gt;) escribi=C3=B3:<br></div><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1=
px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Which doesn&#3=
9;t change the fact that there&#39;s what amounts to an accessibility issue=
..<div><br></div><div>Do you *really* want to tell some percentage of people=
 that they must be willing to use the One True Web Site, or else go away be=
cause they&#39;re not wanted hereabouts? Because insisting all the time tha=
t=C2=A0&quot;(also: ask questions in StackOverflow whenever possible :-) )&=
quot; is doing exactly that.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><b=
r></div></div><div>Sorry, I don&#39;t understand what you mean here. We&#39=
;re very happy with questions here, and I (and everyone else) answer them w=
henever I can. We ask people to *also* post them in StackOverflow if they h=
ave an account, and want, and have the time to do so, because I personally =
think it helps expand Perl6&#39;s community. It&#39;s OK if they don&#39;t.=
 I posted the rationale after that here <a href=3D"http://blogs.perl.org/us=
ers/jj_merelo/2018/04/stackoverflow-that.html">http://blogs.perl.org/users/=
jj_merelo/2018/04/stackoverflow-that.html</a> I&#39;m sorry if it sounds li=
ke kicking people out of here, because that wasn&#39;t really the intention=
..</div><div><br></div><div>JJ<br></div></div>

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jjmerelo
6/12/2018 5:01:32 PM
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That was not "also", that was "this is the right way". "Ask questions in
StackOverflow whenever possible" does not leave room for "this is also a
good venue", it asserts that there is one proper venue and others are
discouraged.

It asserts that, for people who have difficulty using StackOverflow for
whatever reason, *they do not belong here*.

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 1:01 PM JJ Merelo <jjmerelo@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi
>
> El mar., 12 jun. 2018 a las 18:56, Brandon Allbery (<allbery.b@gmail.com>=
)
> escribi=C3=B3:
>
>> Which doesn't change the fact that there's what amounts to an
>> accessibility issue.
>>
>> Do you *really* want to tell some percentage of people that they must be
>> willing to use the One True Web Site, or else go away because they're no=
t
>> wanted hereabouts? Because insisting all the time that "(also: ask
>> questions in StackOverflow whenever possible :-) )" is doing exactly tha=
t.
>>
>
>
> Sorry, I don't understand what you mean here. We're very happy with
> questions here, and I (and everyone else) answer them whenever I can. We
> ask people to *also* post them in StackOverflow if they have an account,
> and want, and have the time to do so, because I personally think it helps
> expand Perl6's community. It's OK if they don't. I posted the rationale
> after that here
> http://blogs.perl.org/users/jj_merelo/2018/04/stackoverflow-that.html I'm
> sorry if it sounds like kicking people out of here, because that wasn't
> really the intention.
>
> JJ
>


--=20
brandon s allbery kf8nh                               sine nomine associate=
s
allbery.b@gmail.com                                  ballbery@sinenomine.ne=
t
unix, openafs, kerberos, infrastructure, xmonad        http://sinenomine.ne=
t

--00000000000053e44a056e74e783
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<div dir=3D"ltr">That was not &quot;also&quot;, that was &quot;this is the =
right way&quot;. &quot;Ask questions in StackOverflow whenever possible&quo=
t; does not leave room for &quot;this is also a good venue&quot;, it assert=
s that there is one proper venue and others are discouraged.<div><br></div>=
<div>It asserts that, for people who have difficulty using StackOverflow fo=
r whatever reason, *they do not belong here*.</div></div><br><div class=3D"=
gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 1:01 PM JJ Merelo &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:jjmerelo@gmail.com">jjmerelo@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br=
></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi<br><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">El mar., 12 jun. 2018 a las 18:56, Brando=
n Allbery (&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:allbery.b@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">all=
bery.b@gmail.com</a>&gt;) escribi=C3=B3:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,20=
4,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Which doesn&#39;t change the fact=
 that there&#39;s what amounts to an accessibility issue.<div><br></div><di=
v>Do you *really* want to tell some percentage of people that they must be =
willing to use the One True Web Site, or else go away because they&#39;re n=
ot wanted hereabouts? Because insisting all the time that=C2=A0&quot;(also:=
 ask questions in StackOverflow whenever possible :-) )&quot; is doing exac=
tly that.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div>=
Sorry, I don&#39;t understand what you mean here. We&#39;re very happy with=
 questions here, and I (and everyone else) answer them whenever I can. We a=
sk people to *also* post them in StackOverflow if they have an account, and=
 want, and have the time to do so, because I personally think it helps expa=
nd Perl6&#39;s community. It&#39;s OK if they don&#39;t. I posted the ratio=
nale after that here <a href=3D"http://blogs.perl.org/users/jj_merelo/2018/=
04/stackoverflow-that.html" target=3D"_blank">http://blogs.perl.org/users/j=
j_merelo/2018/04/stackoverflow-that.html</a> I&#39;m sorry if it sounds lik=
e kicking people out of here, because that wasn&#39;t really the intention.=
</div><div><br></div><div>JJ<br></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><div>brandon s allbery kf8nh =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sine nomine =
associates</div><div><a href=3D"mailto:allbery.b@gmail.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">allbery.b@gmail.com</a> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:ballbery@sinenomine.net" target=3D"_blank">ballbery@sinenomine=
..net</a></div><div>unix, openafs, kerberos, infrastructure, xmonad =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://sinenomine.net" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://sinenomine.net</a></div></div></div>

--00000000000053e44a056e74e783--
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allbery
6/12/2018 5:07:28 PM
--0000000000005d5e0a056e74e770
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On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 12:56 PM Brandon Allbery <allbery.b@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Which doesn't change the fact that there's what amounts to an
> accessibility issue.
>
> Do you *really* want to tell some percentage of people that they must be
> willing to use the One True Web Site, or else go away because they're not
> wanted hereabouts? Because insisting all the time that "(also: ask
> questions in StackOverflow whenever possible :-) )" is doing exactly that.
>
> On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 12:51 PM JJ Merelo <jjmerelo@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Well, it really helps newcomers to find answers to their problems. It's
>> well indexed, and it also raises visibility of the Perl6 language.
>>
>
"must be willing", "insisting", etc. is a very different type of approach
from the gentle "whenever possible" with a smiley.

No one is "insisting" or telling people they aren't wanted hereabouts.

Use StackOverflow if possible (for the reasons expressed) If not (for
whatever reason, we won't pry), use perl6-users, that's ok too.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Tue, Ju=
n 12, 2018 at 12:56 PM Brandon Allbery &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:allbery.b@gmai=
l.com">allbery.b@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-lef=
t:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Which doesn&#39;t change the fact that there&#39;s =
what amounts to an accessibility issue.<div><br></div><div>Do you *really* =
want to tell some percentage of people that they must be willing to use the=
 One True Web Site, or else go away because they&#39;re not wanted hereabou=
ts? Because insisting all the time that=C2=A0&quot;(also: ask questions in =
StackOverflow whenever possible :-) )&quot; is doing exactly that.</div></d=
iv><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at =
12:51 PM JJ Merelo &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jjmerelo@gmail.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">jjmerelo@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1e=
x"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><br></div><div>Well, it=
 really helps newcomers to find answers to their problems. It&#39;s well in=
dexed, and it also raises visibility of the Perl6 language.</div></div></di=
v></blockquote></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>&quot;<span style=3D"=
background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decora=
tion-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">must be willing&quot;, &quot;=
<span style=3D"text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;=
float:none;display:inline">insisting&quot;, etc. is a very different type o=
f approach from the gentle &quot;whenever possible&quot; with a smiley.</sp=
an></span></div><div><span style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-=
decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:i=
nline"><span style=3D"text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:i=
nitial;float:none;display:inline"><br></span></span></div><div><span style=
=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-de=
coration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><span style=3D"text-decor=
ation-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline=
">No one is &quot;insisting&quot; or telling people they aren&#39;t wanted =
hereabouts.</span></span></div><div><span style=3D"background-color:rgb(255=
,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float=
:none;display:inline"><span style=3D"text-decoration-style:initial;text-dec=
oration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><br></span></span></div><d=
iv><span style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:i=
nitial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><span style=
=3D"text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;=
display:inline">Use=C2=A0</span></span>StackOverflow if possible (for the r=
easons expressed) If not (for whatever reason, we won&#39;t pry), use perl6=
-users, that&#39;s ok too.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div><br></div></div></div>

--0000000000005d5e0a056e74e770--
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curt
6/12/2018 5:07:28 PM
--000000000000ac5586056e74ec63
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Smileys do not change "use =E2=80=A6 whenever possible". It;s still asserti=
ng there
is one correct way to contribute.


On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 1:07 PM Curt Tilmes <curt@tilmes.org> wrote:

>
> On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 12:56 PM Brandon Allbery <allbery.b@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Which doesn't change the fact that there's what amounts to an
>> accessibility issue.
>>
>> Do you *really* want to tell some percentage of people that they must be
>> willing to use the One True Web Site, or else go away because they're no=
t
>> wanted hereabouts? Because insisting all the time that "(also: ask
>> questions in StackOverflow whenever possible :-) )" is doing exactly tha=
t.
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 12:51 PM JJ Merelo <jjmerelo@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Well, it really helps newcomers to find answers to their problems. It's
>>> well indexed, and it also raises visibility of the Perl6 language.
>>>
>>
> "must be willing", "insisting", etc. is a very different type of approach
> from the gentle "whenever possible" with a smiley.
>
> No one is "insisting" or telling people they aren't wanted hereabouts.
>
> Use StackOverflow if possible (for the reasons expressed) If not (for
> whatever reason, we won't pry), use perl6-users, that's ok too.
>
>

--=20
brandon s allbery kf8nh                               sine nomine associate=
s
allbery.b@gmail.com                                  ballbery@sinenomine.ne=
t
unix, openafs, kerberos, infrastructure, xmonad        http://sinenomine.ne=
t

--000000000000ac5586056e74ec63
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Smileys do not change &quot;use =E2=80=A6 whenever possibl=
e&quot;. It;s still asserting there is one correct way to contribute.<div><=
br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Tue, Jun =
12, 2018 at 1:07 PM Curt Tilmes &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:curt@tilmes.org">curt=
@tilmes.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Tue, Jun 12, 20=
18 at 12:56 PM Brandon Allbery &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:allbery.b@gmail.com" t=
arget=3D"_blank">allbery.b@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;p=
adding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Which doesn&#39;t change the fact that th=
ere&#39;s what amounts to an accessibility issue.<div><br></div><div>Do you=
 *really* want to tell some percentage of people that they must be willing =
to use the One True Web Site, or else go away because they&#39;re not wante=
d hereabouts? Because insisting all the time that=C2=A0&quot;(also: ask que=
stions in StackOverflow whenever possible :-) )&quot; is doing exactly that=
..</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Tue, Jun 12=
, 2018 at 12:51 PM JJ Merelo &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jjmerelo@gmail.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">jjmerelo@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><br></div><d=
iv>Well, it really helps newcomers to find answers to their problems. It&#3=
9;s well indexed, and it also raises visibility of the Perl6 language.</div=
></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>&quot;<spa=
n style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;=
text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">must be willing&qu=
ot;, &quot;<span style=3D"text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-col=
or:initial;float:none;display:inline">insisting&quot;, etc. is a very diffe=
rent type of approach from the gentle &quot;whenever possible&quot; with a =
smiley.</span></span></div><div><span style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255=
,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:non=
e;display:inline"><span style=3D"text-decoration-style:initial;text-decorat=
ion-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><br></span></span></div><div><=
span style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initi=
al;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><span style=3D"=
text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;disp=
lay:inline">No one is &quot;insisting&quot; or telling people they aren&#39=
;t wanted hereabouts.</span></span></div><div><span style=3D"background-col=
or:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:ini=
tial;float:none;display:inline"><span style=3D"text-decoration-style:initia=
l;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><br></span></spa=
n></div><div><span style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decorati=
on-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><=
span style=3D"text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;f=
loat:none;display:inline">Use=C2=A0</span></span>StackOverflow if possible =
(for the reasons expressed) If not (for whatever reason, we won&#39;t pry),=
 use perl6-users, that&#39;s ok too.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div><br></div></div>=
</div>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><div>brandon s allbery kf8nh =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sine nomine =
associates</div><div><a href=3D"mailto:allbery.b@gmail.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">allbery.b@gmail.com</a> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:ballbery@sinenomine.net" target=3D"_blank">ballbery@sinenomine=
..net</a></div><div>unix, openafs, kerberos, infrastructure, xmonad =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://sinenomine.net" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://sinenomine.net</a></div></div></div>

--000000000000ac5586056e74ec63--
0
allbery
6/12/2018 5:08:58 PM
> Use binding:
>
> my @x=3D <1 2 3>; my @y :=3D @x but Iterable; say @y.^name; #  OUTPUT: =
=C2=ABArray+{Iterable}=E2=90=A4=C2=BB

Hm... the docs on objects has this example:

https://docs.perl6.org/language/objects

  role R { method Str() {'hidden!'} };
  my $i =3D 2 but R;
  sub f(\bound){ put bound };
  f($i); # OUTPUT: =C2=ABhidden!=E2=90=A4=C2=BB

So, my mistake was thinking the form of that second line would work
with array variables?

Looking up "binding" in the docs, there's this material:

https://docs.perl6.org/language/list

  By default, when you assign a List to an @-sigiled variable, you
create an Array. Those are described below. If instead you want to
refer directly to a List object using an @-sigiled variable, you can
use binding with :=3D instead.

     my @a :=3D 1, 2, 3;

  One of the ways @-sigiled variables act like lists is by always
supporting positional subscripting. Anything bound to a @-sigiled
value must support the Positional role which guarantees that this is
going to fail:

     my @a :=3D 1; # Type check failed in binding; expected Positional but =
got Int

And my first reaction to all this is "Seriously?!".  There are
multiple different things here that feel like syntactic glitches, and
you need to tell me about the Positional role now to have any hope of
convincing me this one makes sense on some level?

(One reason you don't want me on stackoverflow is that I'm a whiner
who is not likely to whole-heartedly promote the cause...)



On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 12:09 AM, JJ Merelo <jjmerelo@gmail.com> wrote:
> Use binding:
>
> my @x=3D <1 2 3>; my @y :=3D @x but Iterable; say @y.^name; #  OUTPUT:
> =C2=ABArray+{Iterable}=E2=90=A4=C2=BB
>
> El mar., 12 jun. 2018 a las 9:06, Joseph Brenner (<doomvox@gmail.com>)
> escribi=C3=B3:
>>
>> I thought this would work to make a copy of @x but with the role
>> "LookInside" attached to it:
>>
>>    my @y =3D @x but LookInside;
>>
>> But that didn't add the role to @y. E.g.
>>
>>   say @y.^WHAT
>>
>> Would just report (Array), not (Array+{LookInside}).
>>
>> I found that this would do what I was trying to do though:
>>
>>    my @y =3D @x;
>>    @y does LookInside;
>>
>> I didn't think there would be any difference between the two
>> though.  What am I not getting?
>>
>> The full code looks like this:
>>
>> trial_introspect.pl6:
>>
>>   use v6;
>>   use Trial::Introspect;
>>   my @x =3D <wuhn tew thuree foah fahv sex>;
>>   my @y =3D @x;
>>   @y does LookInside;
>>   say "Methods: ";
>>   say @y.methodical_methods;
>>
>>
>> .../Trial/Introspect.pm6:
>>
>>   role LookInside {
>>     method methodical_methods {
>>       self.^methods.map({ .gist }).sort.unique.map({ "$_\n" }).grep({
>> ! /^Method/ });
>>     }
>>   }
>
>
>
> --
> JJ
0
doomvox
6/12/2018 5:36:41 PM
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El mar., 12 jun. 2018 a las 19:07, Brandon Allbery (<allbery.b@gmail.com>)
escribi=C3=B3:

> That was not "also", that was "this is the right way". "Ask questions in
> StackOverflow whenever possible" does not leave room for "this is also a
> good venue", it asserts that there is one proper venue and others are
> discouraged.
>

Actually, there was an "also:" right before "Ask questions in StackOverflow
whenever possible". Maybe it should have been right after "StackOverflow".
Again, my mistake.

>
> It asserts that, for people who have difficulty using StackOverflow for
> whatever reason, *they do not belong here*.
>

Not my intention in the least way. They *very much* belong here.

JJ

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">El mar=
.., 12 jun. 2018 a las 19:07, Brandon Allbery (&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:allbery=
..b@gmail.com">allbery.b@gmail.com</a>&gt;) escribi=C3=B3:<br></div><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc s=
olid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">That was not &quot;also&quot;, that=
 was &quot;this is the right way&quot;. &quot;Ask questions in StackOverflo=
w whenever possible&quot; does not leave room for &quot;this is also a good=
 venue&quot;, it asserts that there is one proper venue and others are disc=
ouraged.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Actually, there was an &quot=
;also:&quot; right before &quot;Ask questions in StackOverflow whenever pos=
sible&quot;. Maybe it should have been right after &quot;StackOverflow&quot=
;. Again, my mistake.<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><div><br></div><div>It asserts that, for people who have difficulty usi=
ng StackOverflow for whatever reason, *they do not belong here*.</div></div=
></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>Not my intention in the least way. =
They *very much* belong here. <br></div><div><br></div><div>JJ<br></div></d=
iv>

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0
jjmerelo
6/12/2018 5:40:37 PM
Reply: