Problems with Netware login after Win XP SP3

This might be wrong forum, but probably not...

We have recently deployed a new WS image and made the mistake to
include XP SP3 in it - now the GPO setting "wait for network to
initialize" apparently seems to have stopped working.

Our environment is Netware 6.5, ZEN 7 SP1 w/ user and workstation
policies, local profiles created by ZEN on first user login; Client is
4.91 SP4.
ZEN 7 SP1 IR3 and the newer agent on the SP3 workstations didn't solve
the problem, so I don't think it's a GPO problem.

Have tried the image on two different PC models but both show the same
behavior: if I try to login immediately when the Novell GINA login
dialog shows up, the profile isn't created on the local machine, instead
a profile folder named "TEMP" is created in C:\Documents and settings".
Network map commands from the login script dont work either.

If I right-click the "N" in the toolbar the login and mapping works,
but of course the profile doesn't get created at this stage.

If I restart the machine and wait a couple of minutes - until the hard
drive activity ceases - before I login everything works OK, all drives
are mapped and the local profile folder is created.

All other machines (110+ Win XP SP2) work as usual, it's just the SP3
machines that are affected.

Any solutions or ideas?
TIA

Peter Knutar
Department of Governent, Uppsala university
Sweden


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0
peterknutar
8/26/2008 3:46:02 PM
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Peterknutar,
> This might be wrong forum, but probably not...
>
No it is the right forum. Let me ask Novell.

- Anders Gustafsson  (Sysop)
  The Aaland Islands (N60 E20)

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0
Anders
8/26/2008 4:00:51 PM
peterknutar wrote:
> This might be wrong forum, but probably not...
> 
> We have recently deployed a new WS image and made the mistake to
> include XP SP3 in it - now the GPO setting "wait for network to
> initialize" apparently seems to have stopped working.
> 
> Our environment is Netware 6.5, ZEN 7 SP1 w/ user and workstation
> policies, local profiles created by ZEN on first user login; Client is
> 4.91 SP4.
> ZEN 7 SP1 IR3 and the newer agent on the SP3 workstations didn't solve
> the problem, so I don't think it's a GPO problem.
> 
> Have tried the image on two different PC models but both show the same
> behavior: if I try to login immediately when the Novell GINA login
> dialog shows up, the profile isn't created on the local machine, instead
> a profile folder named "TEMP" is created in C:\Documents and settings".
> Network map commands from the login script dont work either.
> 
> If I right-click the "N" in the toolbar the login and mapping works,
> but of course the profile doesn't get created at this stage.
> 
> If I restart the machine and wait a couple of minutes - until the hard
> drive activity ceases - before I login everything works OK, all drives
> are mapped and the local profile folder is created.
> 
> All other machines (110+ Win XP SP2) work as usual, it's just the SP3
> machines that are affected.
> 
> Any solutions or ideas?
> TIA
> 
> Peter Knutar
> Department of Governent, Uppsala university
> Sweden
> 
> 

Do you have Zenworks on the workstations?
0
Patrick
8/27/2008 3:20:19 AM
The profile issue sounds like DLU isnt working.


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dwiseman2
8/27/2008 4:06:02 AM
Hi,

peterknutar wrote:
> 
> This might be wrong forum, but probably not...
> 
> We have recently deployed a new WS image and made the mistake to
> include XP SP3 in it - now the GPO setting "wait for network to
> initialize" apparently seems to have stopped working.

Disable the newly introduced SP3 services for 802.1x and network
location awareness.

CU,
-- 
Massimo Rosen
Novell Product Support Forum Sysop
No emails please!
http://www.cfc-it.de
0
Massimo
8/27/2008 10:20:23 AM
mrosen;1626494 Wrote: 
> Hi,
> 
> peterknutar wrote:
> >
> > This might be wrong forum, but probably not...
> >
> > We have recently deployed a new WS image and made the mistake to
> > include XP SP3 in it - now the GPO setting "wait for network to
> > initialize" apparently seems to have stopped working.
> 
> Disable the newly introduced SP3 services for 802.1x and network
> location awareness.
> 
> CU,
> --
> Massimo Rosen
> Novell Product Support Forum Sysop
> No emails please!
> 'Untitled Document' (http://www.cfc-it.de)

Thanks for the tip; I tried it but it didn't solve the problem - at
least only partially. I now got the ZEN policy to create a "real" local
account with profile and all, but I still *always* get mapping errors if
I log in too soon. Sometimes the network drives plainly don't map, and
most of the time the message in the Results window say that "an
unexpected error has occurred: 15 (8891)".

Close, but still no cigar :-)

I'll re-image the machine tonight, remove XP SP3 and try again with XP
SP2 to see if the same machine shows the same errors without SP3.


/Peter


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peterknutar
8/27/2008 3:36:01 PM
Yes. Everything worked with ZEN 7 SP1 agent and XP SP2, installed XP SP3
with ZEN 7 SP1 agent, updated to ZEN 7 SP1 IR3 agent, still doesn't
work.


/Peter


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peterknutar
8/27/2008 3:56:03 PM
We don't use DLU for dynamic users, ie remove local accounts at logout.
We use the ZEN policy to create a permanent local account at first
logon, just so we don't have to run around and create local accounts on
cevery XP machine. On every client logon after the initial, ZEN manages
the *existing* account.


/Peter


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peterknutar
8/27/2008 4:06:02 PM
peterknutar wrote:
> Yes. Everything worked with ZEN 7 SP1 agent and XP SP2, installed XP SP3
> with ZEN 7 SP1 agent, updated to ZEN 7 SP1 IR3 agent, still doesn't
> work.
> 
> 
> /Peter
> 
> 

I know there was a login issue with the novell client potentially and XP 
  Sp3 that they released a patch for.. had to do with the service order 
provider.  That doesn't sound like something that would affect this.

http://download.novell.com/Download?buildid=fIQGau60UFc~

It's for 4.91 SP4.  XP SP3 tends to blow away the entries it needs.

0
Patrick
8/27/2008 5:47:53 PM
peterknutar wrote:
> mrosen;1626494 Wrote: 
>> Hi,
>>
>> peterknutar wrote:
>>> This might be wrong forum, but probably not...
>>>
>>> We have recently deployed a new WS image and made the mistake to
>>> include XP SP3 in it - now the GPO setting "wait for network to
>>> initialize" apparently seems to have stopped working.
>> Disable the newly introduced SP3 services for 802.1x and network
>> location awareness.
>>
>> CU,
>> --
>> Massimo Rosen
>> Novell Product Support Forum Sysop
>> No emails please!
>> 'Untitled Document' (http://www.cfc-it.de)
> 
> Thanks for the tip; I tried it but it didn't solve the problem - at
> least only partially. I now got the ZEN policy to create a "real" local
> account with profile and all, but I still *always* get mapping errors if
> I log in too soon. Sometimes the network drives plainly don't map, and
> most of the time the message in the Results window say that "an
> unexpected error has occurred: 15 (8891)".
> 
> Close, but still no cigar :-)
> 
> I'll re-image the machine tonight, remove XP SP3 and try again with XP
> SP2 to see if the same machine shows the same errors without SP3.
> 
> 
> /Peter
> 
> 

8891? or 8801?
0
Patrick
8/27/2008 5:50:51 PM
peterknutar;1626780 Wrote: 
> We don't use DLU for dynamic users, ie remove local accounts at logout.
> We use the ZEN policy to create a permanent local account at first
> logon, just so we don't have to run around and create local accounts on
> cevery XP machine. On every client logon after the initial, ZEN manages
> the *existing* account.
> 
> 
> /Peter
That happens when the DLU is set to volatile. You can choose to keep
the profile on there. This also shouldn't mean that you have to create
all the accounts manually...


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dwiseman2
8/28/2008 1:46:02 AM
>> /Peter
> That happens when the DLU is set to volatile. You can choose to keep
> the profile on there. This also shouldn't mean that you have to create
> all the accounts manually...
> 
> 

That's what he's saying.  DLU automatically creates the accounts (when 
working properly), and removing them at logout is purely optional 
depending on how you configure it.  We don't remove them either.
0
Patrick
8/28/2008 2:28:46 AM
I interpreted that wrongly. I thought he meant he didn't use DLU at all
because he didn't want to create logins on each machine.

Is it possible that the DLU has become corrupted though? Causing the
profile to not be associated to the user upon log in, which could point
to the reason why a temporary profile is being created when users log
in.

Are there profiles on the machines that look like this... 

jsmith.000
jsmith.001 etc.?


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dwiseman2
8/28/2008 4:56:01 AM
I had a simular issue with profiles and Windows XP SP3. After installing
Windows XP SP3 no roaming profiles directories where created.

Our problem was in C1, properties of user, General, Evironment. Here
was the default server different from the server where the Home
Directories. After setting the Default Server to the same server as the
Home Directory server, roaming profiles works again.

Robert


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nwbazl
8/28/2008 1:56:03 PM
dwiseman2;1627183 Wrote: 
> I interpreted that wrongly. I thought he meant he didn't use DLU at all
> because he didn't want to create logins on each machine.
> 
> Is it possible that the DLU has become corrupted though? Causing the
> profile to not be associated to the user upon log in, which could point
> to the reason why a temporary profile is being created when users log
> in.
> 
> Are there profiles on the machines that look like this... 
> 
> jsmith.000
> jsmith.001 etc.?

No, that would be charted territory ;). The profile dir is named TEMP
all the time - even if I log in as different users...

And of course you were both right - we use DLU in the ZEN policy, we
just don't let ZEN erase the account at each logout. All users have
their respective computer, so they don't roam that much.

I just wonder why the DLU would be corrupted on XP SP3 machines only -
if I log in as the same user on a machine with SP2 all works OK...

Haven't had time to restore an XP SP2 image to the machine yet, will
try to manage this over the weekend - it's the beginning of the semester
in Sweden right now (sigh).


/Peter


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peterknutar
8/29/2008 3:56:02 PM
It said exactly as quotetd above - 15 (8891) - and the message only
occurs once, at the bottom of the Results window. It wasn't one of the
mapping errors that occur once for each unsuccessful MAP command in the
login script.


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peterknutar
8/29/2008 4:06:02 PM
Alright then, let us know whether that works or not.

Yes, beginning of semester is always a hectic time!

Dave


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dwiseman2
9/1/2008 12:06:02 AM
Hello,

peterknutar;1625813 Wrote: 
> This might be wrong forum, but probably not...
> 
> We have recently deployed a new WS image and made the mistake to
> include XP SP3 in it - now the GPO setting "wait for network to
> initialize" apparently seems to have stopped working.
> 
> Our environment is Netware 6.5, ZEN 7 SP1 w/ user and workstation
> policies, local profiles created by ZEN on first user login; Client is
> 4.91 SP4.
> ZEN 7 SP1 IR3 and the newer agent on the SP3 workstations didn't solve
> the problem, so I don't think it's a GPO problem.
> 
> Have tried the image on two different PC models but both show the same
> behavior: if I try to login immediately when the Novell GINA login
> dialog shows up, the profile isn't created on the local machine, instead
> a profile folder named "TEMP" is created in C:\Documents and settings".
> Network map commands from the login script dont work either.
> 
> If I right-click the "N" in the toolbar the login and mapping works,
> but of course the profile doesn't get created at this stage.
> 
> If I restart the machine and wait a couple of minutes - until the hard
> drive activity ceases - before I login everything works OK, all drives
> are mapped and the local profile folder is created.
> 
> All other machines (110+ Win XP SP2) work as usual, it's just the SP3
> machines that are affected.
> 
> Any solutions or ideas?
> TIA
> 
> Peter Knutar
> Department of Governent, Uppsala university
> Sweden

we have the same problem, but after a long time of searching I think
we've found the reason. We've enabled roaming profiles, and there is an
application in our Programs that creates sometimes very long file names
in the Folder ApplicationData (in German Anwendungsdaten)in the users
profile. So at logoff it is not possible to write the roaming profile to
the netware server location and (I think) windows marks this profile as
bad. At next logon you'll get the TEMP-Profile. When you remove the file
with the long filename you will get the correct profile.
You can find this in the Eventlog / Application (hope this is right in
english), there you even can read the name of the problematic file.
You will also find that in registry the profile in
HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\Current Version\Profile List has got
the extension .bak. When then profile is working again, the extension is
removed.

regards

EGruber


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ErhardGruber
9/21/2008 5:56:02 PM
ErhardGruber,
> application in our Programs that creates sometimes very long file names
> in the Folder ApplicationData (in German Anwendungsdaten)in the users
> profile. So at logoff it is not possible to write the roaming profile to
> the netware server location and (I think) windows marks this profile as
>
Yes, some adobe apps for example

- Anders Gustafsson  (Sysop)
  The Aaland Islands (N60 E20)

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0
Anders
9/21/2008 6:26:30 PM
This could have been the solution to half the problem (and I definitely
have saved it for the next time a profile crashes - thanks!), but I
don't think so. Here's some more info and a couple of clarifications:

This is a problem that only surfaces when XP SP3 is installed. The same
machine works OK with SP2, and the users' profiles work with SP2. The
errors appear on clean, re-imaged machines where the profile should have
been read from the server and re-created on the local machine. In short,
problems don't occur on log*out*, they occur on log*in*.

I firmly believe the main problem is that the network communication (or
logon script processing) fails, one way or the other. I haven't digged
deep enough into how communication on logon occurs, but it seems that
the authentication works OK, but MAP commands in the login script won't
get processed. Hence the profile problems - there's no network disk to
read the user's profile from.

We have done some more tests that indicate that it's also significant
in what order the Microsoft updates and the Novell Client are installed.
In the department of Law (that by the way don't use ZEN), XP SP3
machines don't get any network drives mapped either, but if we *first*
install XP SP3 and *then* the Novell Client, MAP commands work. If we
install the Novell Client first (Client 4.91 SP2), then XP SP3, and
finally update to Client 4.91 SP4, problems occur.

We now have four production machines with XP SP3 on our hands, and
after asking the users to wait three to five minutes before logon after
the Novell GINA shows we now have profiles with the correct username on
all four. This way, if they forget to wait, the profile error won't be
too obvious to them, and after the unsuccessful logon they can
right-click the red 'N' and do a second - successful - logon.
Luckily for me, these users understand that eventually the problems
will be solved, but it's getting a bit awkward...

Of course I could create a ZENworks app, put the MAP commands in it and
set it to force run after the desktop is fully initialized, but that
feels like giving up, doesn't it? ;-)


Cheers,
Peter


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peterknutar
9/21/2008 8:26:02 PM
Peterknutar,
> We now have four production machines with XP SP3 on our hands, and
> after asking the users to wait three to five minutes before logon after
> the Novell GINA shows we now have profiles with the correct username on
> all four.

If you can recreate the error, then it might be a good idea to grab a 
packet trace that we can forward to Novell.

- Anders Gustafsson  (Sysop)
  The Aaland Islands (N60 E20)

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0
Anders
9/22/2008 8:53:58 AM
peterknutar;1642917 Wrote: 
> This could have been the solution to half the problem (and I definitely
> have saved it for the next time a profile crashes - thanks!), but I
> don't think so. Here's some more info and a couple of clarifications:
> 
> This is a problem that only surfaces when XP SP3 is installed. The same
> machine works OK with SP2, and the users' profiles work with SP2. The
> errors appear on clean, re-imaged machines where the profile should have
> been read from the server and re-created on the local machine. In short,
> problems don't occur on log*out*, they occur on log*in*.
> 
> I firmly believe the main problem is that the network communication (or
> logon script processing) fails, one way or the other. I haven't digged
> deep enough into how communication on logon occurs, but it seems that
> the authentication works OK, but MAP commands in the login script won't
> get processed. Hence the profile problems - there's no network disk to
> read the user's profile from.
> 
> We have done some more tests that indicate that it's also significant
> in what order the Microsoft updates and the Novell Client are installed.
> In the department of Law (that by the way don't use ZEN), XP SP3
> machines don't get any network drives mapped either, but if we *first*
> install XP SP3 and *then* the Novell Client, MAP commands work. If we
> install the Novell Client first (Client 4.91 SP2), then XP SP3, and
> finally update to Client 4.91 SP4, problems occur.
> 
> We now have four production machines with XP SP3 on our hands, and
> after asking the users to wait three to five minutes before logon after
> the Novell GINA shows we now have profiles with the correct username on
> all four. This way, if they forget to wait, the profile error won't be
> too obvious to them, and after the unsuccessful logon they can
> right-click the red 'N' and do a second - successful - logon.
> Luckily for me, these users understand that eventually the problems
> will be solved, but it's getting a bit awkward...
> 
> Of course I could create a ZENworks app, put the MAP commands in it and
> set it to force run after the desktop is fully initialized, but that
> feels like giving up, doesn't it? ;-)
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Peter

But when you have a machine with the problem - did you take a look in
the eventlog? 
By the way - I dont understand how you have configured profiles. Do you
have enabled roaming profiles via Zenworks? In this case you MUST have a
storage location for your network profile. In our case it is in the
users Home Directory in a Subdirectory called 'Windows NT 5.1
Workstation Profile'.

regards

EGruber


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ErhardGruber
9/22/2008 7:06:02 PM
I have been waiting for this, Anders - I'm surprised you did'nt ask
until now ;)

What is it exactly that you want? - I'm a total newbie when it comes to
packet sniffing, that's one of the few things the central IT support at
our university helps us with...

I'm on vacation for a week, I'll take care of this when I get back.


/Peter


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peterknutar
9/24/2008 11:56:02 AM
Peterknutar,
> What is it exactly that you want? - I'm a total newbie when it comes to
> packet sniffing, that's one of the few things the central IT support at
> our university helps us with...
> 
> I'm on vacation for a week, I'll take care of this when I get bac

OK. What you need is a HUB (NOT a switch) or a splitter:
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-make-your-own-Ethernet-%22splitter%22/
or such, alernatively if you can set your switch up to mirror all traffic to a second port.

Then you need a laptop where you install Wireshark

Install and play with Wireshark until you are comfortable.

Then, making sure that your laptop sees all traffic to/from your problem PC, start a trace, then start the problem PC and record everything from bootup to when you are logged in. Then mail me the file ;)

Here is a good tutorial:
http://wiki.wireshark.org/CaptureSetup/Ethernet

(PS. I will be in Uppsala this Saturday)


- Anders Gustafsson  (Sysop)
  The Aaland Islands (N60 E20)

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0
Anders
9/24/2008 12:24:35 PM
Yep, roaming profiles (including folder redirection) are handled via
ZEN7, and yes, the home directory attribute is set in eDir, and yes, the
login script maps the home directory as U:, and finally, yes, the
profile gets stored in 'Windows NT 5.1 Workstation Profile' in the home
directory.
That's the problem - when the profile needs to be accessed, the home
directory drive is not mapped because of the network errors.


/Peter


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peterknutar
9/24/2008 12:36:02 PM
Anders Gustafsson wrote:
> Peterknutar,
>> What is it exactly that you want? - I'm a total newbie when it comes to
>> packet sniffing, that's one of the few things the central IT support at
>> our university helps us with...
>>
>> I'm on vacation for a week, I'll take care of this when I get bac
> 
> OK. What you need is a HUB (NOT a switch) or a splitter:
> http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-make-your-own-Ethernet-%22splitter%22/
> or such, alernatively if you can set your switch up to mirror all traffic to a second port.
> 
> Then you need a laptop where you install Wireshark
> 
> Install and play with Wireshark until you are comfortable.
> 
> Then, making sure that your laptop sees all traffic to/from your problem PC, start a trace, then start the problem PC and record everything from bootup to when you are logged in. Then mail me the file ;)
> 
> Here is a good tutorial:
> http://wiki.wireshark.org/CaptureSetup/Ethernet
> 
> (PS. I will be in Uppsala this Saturday)
> 
> 
> - Anders Gustafsson  (Sysop)
>   The Aaland Islands (N60 E20)
> 
>   Discover the new Novell forums at http://forums.novell.com
> 
> Novell does not monitor these forums officially.
> Enhancement requests for all Novell products may be made at
> http://support.novell.com/enhancement
> 

An ethernet splitter isn't going to help because it uses 2 ports on the 
switch.  I think what you want is an ethernet tap instead.

There's 4 port taps, where the send and receive are split out.  This is 
done so it's totally passive and there's no way for the capture machine 
to send packets out on the network.

http://www.snort.org/docs/tap/ (complex because it requires 2 ethernet 
ports and 2 instances of wireshark running.

Some more info on taps.. 
http://www.infosecwriters.com/hhworld/hh9/roc/node4.html

This guy makes a 3 port ethernet tap

http://www.instructables.com/id/Make_a_Passive_Network_Tap/

The advantage?  You only need one nic and one instance of wireshark.

The disadvantage is that your capture machine can send traffic out on 
the network, and if you want to be sure you aren't introducing any 
traffic whatsoever, this isn't the way to go.  If you don't really care 
about that, then this should work.


0
Patrick
9/24/2008 2:02:47 PM
Patrick Farrell,
> An ethernet splitter isn't going to help because it uses 2 ports on the 
> switch.  I think what you want is an ethernet tap instead.
>
Sorry. I meant "tap"

- Anders Gustafsson  (Sysop)
  The Aaland Islands (N60 E20)

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Novell does not monitor these forums officially.
Enhancement requests for all Novell products may be made at
http://support.novell.com/enhancement

0
Anders
9/24/2008 3:24:35 PM
Anders Gustafsson wrote:
> Patrick Farrell,
>> An ethernet splitter isn't going to help because it uses 2 ports on the 
>> switch.  I think what you want is an ethernet tap instead.
>>
> Sorry. I meant "tap"

I thought you did.  I put those links in there for the benefit of the 
other person asking, in case they want to make one instead of spending 
money on a commercial product.
0
Patrick
9/24/2008 3:58:16 PM
Hi Peter,

We are experiencing simialr problems with simialr configuration. 
Did you ever get a definitive solution?

Phil Drury


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0
DruryP
2/8/2009 11:16:02 PM
DruryP,
> e are experiencing simialr problems with simialr configuration.
>
Are you sure the problem is identical. If not, please tell us the exact 
sypmtoms so that we can help you. Most Sp3 problems seem to pe 
windows-firewall-related

- Anders Gustafsson  (Sysop)
  The Aaland Islands (N60 E20)

  Discover the Novell forums at http://forums.novell.com

Novell does not monitor these forums officially.
Enhancement requests for all Novell products may be made at
http://support.novell.com/enhancement

0
Anders
2/9/2009 8:36:30 AM
Hi,

I wonder if anyone has any new info regarding this thread? 
We experience a similar problem, with a TEMP profile created in
documents and settings folder. For the user it means a new desktop, no
favourites, and all applications have to be associated again. It's
nothing wrong with the network connections because home directories and
other shares are accesible. 
We have tried to install first XP sp3 and then novell client 4.91 sp5,
and then the other way around, with no difference.
We have a non-volatile userenvironment.
We also have UPH cleanup installed.

Cheers

Fredrik


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0
FredWarn
9/23/2009 11:26:02 AM
The OP has Roaming Profiles so I assume you have that too.

AFAIK there is only one known issue when the RP cannot be loaded that is
exclusively related to XP SP3.
N.B. this also applies when the RP is governed via ZenWorks:

"When you try to log on to a Windows XP SP3-based computer by using a
roaming profile, the roaming profile cannot load."
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/958058


Regards
Rolf Lidvall
Swedish Radio (Ltd)


0
Rolf
9/23/2009 1:13:44 PM
Hi,

I have no idea if this will address your problem, but do you have 802.1x 
authentication enabled in the Windows network settings? If so try disabling 
it - this is causing issues with computers that use dhcp to get a reserved 
IP address because the Windows dhcp client will drop the network (release 
the ip address) and then renew the ip. This drop and subsequent delay in 
processing of network delivered stuff (eg login script processing, zen app 
processing, etc) cause all kinds of weird issues. Thanks Microsoft!

HTH,

Ron

0
Ron
9/29/2009 10:52:46 PM
Reply:

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