Client 4.90SP2 vs. Microsoft's XP Netware Client

We run a database program that is having problems with the Netware 
client.  Data corruption and performance are a problem.

So, I tested the Microsoft Netware client vs. the Novell client and I am 
getting much better performnace from the Microsoft client.  The Micorsoft 
client is 60 times faster during a 'post data' function.  This translates 
from 15 seconds for Microsoft  to 15 minutes for Novell!

Is there anything I can do to speed up the Novell Client?

Jerry Gunn
Metamora High School
0
jgunn
1/21/2005 8:30:45 PM
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Well, since you apparently need only IPX support (you didn't note which 
version of the NetWare server you were connecting to), consider this.

A)	Install the 4.90SP2 client, custom only, IPX only, then uninstall 
	NMAS support; or

B)	Depending on your NetWare version, download the 4.83SP2 client, and
	install it, custom, client only, IPX only.

Make sure to set the IPX frame type to match what you are running on the 
server.


-- 
Barry Schnur
Novell Support Connection Volunteer Sysop
0
Barry
1/21/2005 9:02:45 PM
There LOTS of things you can do.

Check the following URL's

http://support.novell.com/cgi-bin/search/searchtid.cgi?/2957331.htm
http://www.otcnetworks.com/nwclient.htm
http://www.ithowto.com/novell/clientspeed.htm

jgunn@mtco.com wrote:
> We run a database program that is having problems with the Netware 
> client.  Data corruption and performance are a problem.
> 
> So, I tested the Microsoft Netware client vs. the Novell client and I am 
> getting much better performnace from the Microsoft client.  The Micorsoft 
> client is 60 times faster during a 'post data' function.  This translates 
> from 15 seconds for Microsoft  to 15 minutes for Novell!
> 
> Is there anything I can do to speed up the Novell Client?
> 
> Jerry Gunn
> Metamora High School
0
Bill
1/21/2005 9:27:01 PM
Barry,

Sorry...we have 6.5sp2 servers and use only IP on the NW client.

IPX is still installed on the servers.

Does the Microsoft client use only IP or does it use IPX?

Thanks,

Jerry



> Well, since you apparently need only IPX support (you didn't note which 
> version of the NetWare server you were connecting to), consider this.
> 
> A)	Install the 4.90SP2 client, custom only, IPX only, then 
uninstall 
> 	NMAS support; or
> 
> B)	Depending on your NetWare version, download the 4.83SP2 client, 
and
> 	install it, custom, client only, IPX only.
> 
> Make sure to set the IPX frame type to match what you are running on the 
> server.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Barry Schnur
> Novell Support Connection Volunteer Sysop

0
jgunn
1/21/2005 9:42:04 PM
The MS clients for NetWare are (and probably always will be) IPX only.

> Sorry...we have 6.5sp2 servers and use only IP on the NW client.
> IPX is still installed on the servers.
> Does the Microsoft client use only IP or does it use IPX?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jerry
> 
> 

0
geoffs
1/21/2005 9:49:52 PM
Does this explain anything about my slow response time? (IPX vs. IP)

Jerry


> The MS clients for NetWare are (and probably always will be) IPX only.
> 
> > Sorry...we have 6.5sp2 servers and use only IP on the NW client.
> > IPX is still installed on the servers.
> > Does the Microsoft client use only IP or does it use IPX?
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Jerry
> > 
> > 
> 

0
jgunn
1/21/2005 9:58:03 PM
There have been reports of IPX performance being better than IP for a 
number reasons in a number of environments.

As a test, try uninstalling the 4.9 client, then reinstalling, client only, 
IPX only and matching the frame type.  See if performance is better.

-- 
Barry Schnur
Novell Support Connection Volunteer Sysop
0
Barry
1/21/2005 10:13:57 PM
IP can be slower than IPX, but 60x is not explained by that alone.  There
are several thingsthat could explain that type of difference, both of which
are IP related.

1. The TCP Nagle algorithm or TCP delayed acknowledgemant may be active. 
That deliberately delays some IP packets to decrease network 'chatter'.

2. IP is more sensitive to duplex mismatches than is IPX.

Here are my suggestions:

1. Install the client for IPX only using the info Barry and Bill gave you.
 (the www.otcnetworks.com link is my web site)

or 
2. Install the client IP only (using the configuration tips given in those
links) and disable the Nagle algorithm and/or delayed ack.
http://support.novell.com/cgi-bin/search/searchtid.cgi?/10061307.htm

> Does this explain anything about my slow response time? (IPX vs. IP)
> 
> Jerry
> 

0
geoffs
1/21/2005 10:19:33 PM

geoffs.nospamge@otcnetworks.invalid.com wrote:

> IP can be slower than IPX, but 60x is not explained by that alone.  There
> are several thingsthat could explain that type of difference, both of which
> are IP related.
>
> 1. The TCP Nagle algorithm or TCP delayed acknowledgemant may be active.
> That deliberately delays some IP packets to decrease network 'chatter'.
>
> 2. IP is more sensitive to duplex mismatches than is IPX.
>
> Here are my suggestions:
>
> 1. Install the client for IPX only using the info Barry and Bill gave you.
>  (the www.otcnetworks.com link is my web site)
>
> or
> 2. Install the client IP only (using the configuration tips given in those
> links) and disable the Nagle algorithm and/or delayed ack.
> http://support.novell.com/cgi-bin/search/searchtid.cgi?/10061307.htm
>
> > Does this explain anything about my slow response time? (IPX vs. IP)
> >
> > Jerry
> >

Something is badly wrong for a factor of 60 difference. I'd start with a packet
trace which should show exactly what is happening, and then you can figure why.

John

0
John
1/21/2005 10:26:39 PM
> Something is badly wrong for a factor of 60 difference. I'd start with a
packet
> trace which should show exactly what is happening, and then you can
figure why.
> 
> John
> 

I agree, but the fact that the MS Client using IPX works very well suggests
it's more likely a configuration issue than an actual network problem.  In
this case, I doubt a packet trace it going to be that useful (and most
people don't know how to interpret one anyway).

FWIW, my tests indicate the the MS Client is essentially the same speed as
the current Novell Clients (when properly configured) when running IPX.  I
don't use NCP/IP, so I don't have any valid data to compare to, just a lot
of TIDs and posts on here indicating that IP may be a bit (5% or so) slower
than IPX on a LAN.  WAN configurations may differ.
0
geoffs
1/21/2005 10:54:33 PM
> I agree, but the fact that the MS Client using IPX works very well suggests
> it's more likely a configuration issue than an actual network problem.  In
> this case, I doubt a packet trace it going to be that useful (and most
> people don't know how to interpret one anyway).
>
not at all - IP is MUCH more susceptible to speed/duplex mismatches than IPX, 
and a packet trace would identify that very easily

-- 

Shaun Pond


0
Shaun
1/21/2005 11:09:07 PM
Safe bet. In fact in 64 bit windows, neither IPX nor the MS client for 
Netware exist anymore.

-- 
Michael J. Bell
Novell Support Connection Volunteer Sysop
Author of Guinevere (http://www.openhandhome.com)

PLEASE: Do not e-mail me privately unless specifically asked.
I'm a volunteer, not a Novell employee!

All opinions and advice provided are MINE alone and NOT Novell's unless
specifically identified as such.

Novell does not officially monitor these forums.
Enhancement requests for all Novell products may be made at
http://support.novell.com/enhancement

"You've got a way to keep me on your side/You give me cause
for love that I can't hide/For you I know I'd even try to
turn the tide/Because you're mine, I walk the line"

Johnny Cash (RIP)

<geoffs.nospamge@otcnetworks.invalid.com> wrote in message 
news:4OeId.15$P_6.10@prv-forum2.provo.novell.com...
> The MS clients for NetWare are (and probably always will be) IPX only.
>
>> Sorry...we have 6.5sp2 servers and use only IP on the NW client.
>> IPX is still installed on the servers.
>> Does the Microsoft client use only IP or does it use IPX?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>>
> 


0
Michael
1/22/2005 8:34:43 AM
> Safe bet. In fact in 64 bit windows, neither IPX nor the MS client for 
> Netware exist anymore.
> 
Why would anyone expect them to be?  MS philosophy seems to be "embrace,
extend, extinguish" and it's worked well for them.  Besides, Apple dropped
AppleTalk and moved to IP, Novell is moving to IP, why bother with either?
 Or you can take the more paranoid view that dropping those just makes the
bar higher for Novell.
0
geoffs
1/22/2005 2:20:44 PM
Novell could capitalize on that.  I can imagine there are quite a few shops 
using 2000/XP clients with a NetWare 3.x/4.x box or two still around.
If Microsoft drops IPX all together in Longhorn and 64-bit XP, OES is going 
to look like a good option for them.

-- 
Tony Pedretti 


0
Tony
1/22/2005 4:14:18 PM
When you are ready to do IP, you might want to verify that your SLP 
environment is configured properly.

Also part of your test should include the removal of the MS Client for 
Windows, the MS File and Print client and NetBEUI clients are at least 
disabled and even uninstalled if you do not require them.

Don

Barry Schnur wrote:

> There have been reports of IPX performance being better than IP for a 
> number reasons in a number of environments.
> 
> As a test, try uninstalling the 4.9 client, then reinstalling, client only, 
> IPX only and matching the frame type.  See if performance is better.
> 

-- 
Donald A. Lohr
Technical Services
James Madison University

++ Bad command or file name  ++
0
Donald
1/22/2005 7:49:17 PM
Hi,

jgunn@mtco.com wrote:
> 
> Does this explain anything about my slow response time? (IPX vs. IP)

Yes. As some have already suggested, you most likely have a duplex
mismatch somewhere between your workstation and the server. 

CU,
-- 
Massimo Rosen
Novell Support Connection Sysop
No emails please!
http://www.cfc-it.de
0
Massimo
1/24/2005 11:18:59 AM
Thanks Barry, Bill, Donald, John, Shaun, and Massimo.

I loaded the client IPX only and the problem disappeared.  So now I will 
be taking a look at the IP network and try some of your ideas.  

Thanks again for the info...you guys are great.  All our users are now 
very happy.

Jerry Gunn
Metamora High School




> We run a database program that is having problems with the Netware 
> client.  Data corruption and performance are a problem.
> 
> So, I tested the Microsoft Netware client vs. the Novell client and I 
am 
> getting much better performnace from the Microsoft client.  The 
Micorsoft 
> client is 60 times faster during a 'post data' function.  This 
translates 
> from 15 seconds for Microsoft  to 15 minutes for Novell!
> 
> Is there anything I can do to speed up the Novell Client?
> 
> Jerry Gunn
> Metamora High School

0
jgunn
2/1/2005 7:05:15 PM
Excellent -- thanks for closing the loop.


-- 
Barry Schnur
Novell Support Connection Volunteer Sysop
0
Barry
2/2/2005 7:01:25 AM
Reply:

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