Filters suddenly won't work on gmail IMAP Sent Mail folder - TB/gmail coordination problem?

I've been creating and running some filters for a few days, to separate 
things out into various folders.  And things have been working fine.

But suddenly today the last few filters have not worked when searching 
the folder "[Gmail] Sent Mail".

If I look at Sent Mail using gmail's browser interface, I see the 
messages I'm looking for.  Both by Searching and by simply scrolling 
down until I see them.

In TB, if I merely scroll through all the messages in Sent Mail, the 
ones I want are there.

If I do Edit > Find > Search Messages on Sent Mail I find them.

But if I create a filter (either a Quick Filter or a regular filter) and 
run it on Sent Mail, nothing gets found.

And I have checked many times that I have done the filter correctly, 
such as "Find *any* of the following", rather than "Find *all*". 
Basically, everything that works in Edit > Find.

Here's the really weird one:

If after Edit > Find > Search Messages I do "Save to folder <some new 
folder>", I get the message that they are being saved ... but when I go 
to that new folder, in TB or in gmail, it's empty.

Meanwhile, everything works just find on "[Gmail] All Mail".

---------

Hmm!  Since writing the above, Edit > Find > Search Messages has also 
stopped working on Sent Mail.

But all the files still really are there in Sent Mail, whether I look at 
them in TB on in gmail's web browser.  And everything still works fine 
on All Mail.
0
Dudley
4/4/2018 6:29:16 AM
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Hi.  I haven't received any response in two weeks.  Can someone help me 
with this?

On 4/3/18 11:29 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:

> I've been creating and running some filters for a few days, to separate 
> things out into various folders.  And things have been working fine.
> 
> But suddenly today the last few filters have not worked when searching 
> the folder "[Gmail] Sent Mail".
> 
> If I look at Sent Mail using gmail's browser interface, I see the 
> messages I'm looking for.  Both by Searching and by simply scrolling 
> down until I see them.
> 
> In TB, if I merely scroll through all the messages in Sent Mail, the 
> ones I want are there.
> 
> If I do Edit > Find > Search Messages on Sent Mail I find them.
> 
> But if I create a filter (either a Quick Filter or a regular filter) and 
> run it on Sent Mail, nothing gets found.
> 
> And I have checked many times that I have done the filter correctly, 
> such as "Find *any* of the following", rather than "Find *all*". 
> Basically, everything that works in Edit > Find.
> 
> Here's the really weird one:
> 
> If after Edit > Find > Search Messages I do "Save to folder <some new 
> folder>", I get the message that they are being saved ... but when I go 
> to that new folder, in TB or in gmail, it's empty.
> 
> Meanwhile, everything works just find on "[Gmail] All Mail".
> 
> ---------
> 
> Hmm!  Since writing the above, Edit > Find > Search Messages has also 
> stopped working on Sent Mail.
> 
> But all the files still really are there in Sent Mail, whether I look at 
> them in TB on in gmail's web browser.  And everything still works fine 
> on All Mail.

0
Dudley
4/14/2018 4:15:24 PM
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On 14/04/2018 17:15, Dudley Brooks wrote:
> Hi.  I haven't received any response in two weeks. Can someone help me 
> with this?
>
>

You need to post a screenshot of your filter so that somebody can spot 
the error in it.

The general rule is that if a filter doesn't work then the chances are 
there is an error in formulating it.




-- 
With over 600 million devices now running Windows 10, customer 
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

--------------020100090701050403090308
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<html>
  <head>
    <meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body bgcolor="#FCFBE3" text="#000000">
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 14/04/2018 17:15, Dudley Brooks
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:mailman.389.1523722557.2177.support-thunderbird@lists.mozilla.org"
      type="cite">Hi.  I haven't received any response in two weeks. 
      Can someone help me with this?
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    You need to post a screenshot of your filter so that somebody can
    spot the error in it.  <br>
    <br>
    The general rule is that if a filter doesn't work then the chances
    are there is an error in formulating it.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
      <div class="moz-signature">
        <div style="width: 330px; background-color: blue; color:
          yellow;font-weight: bolder; font-size:150%; text-align:
          center; margin: 30px 5px 30px 5px;">With over 600 million
          devices now running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is
          higher than any previous version of windows.</div>
      </div>
    </div>
  </body>
</html>

--------------020100090701050403090308--
0
Good
4/14/2018 4:47:50 PM
OK.  What's the etiquette for posting images in this ng?  I assume it's 
still not kosher to actually put them in the posting.

(BTW, I checked and checked and checked the filter with a fine-toothed 
comb.)

On 4/14/18 9:47 AM, Good Guy wrote:

> On 14/04/2018 17:15, Dudley Brooks wrote:
> >> Hi.  I haven't received any response in two weeks. Can someone help me
>> with this?
> 
> You need to post a screenshot of your filter so that somebody can spot 
> the error in it.
> 
> The general rule is that if a filter doesn't work then the chances are 
> there is an error in formulating it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> With over 600 million devices now running Windows 10, customer 
> satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

0
Dudley
4/14/2018 4:58:17 PM
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On 14/04/2018 17:58, Dudley Brooks wrote:
> OK.  What's the etiquette for posting images in this ng?  I assume 
> it's still not kosher to actually put them in the posting.

You need to use free image hosting sites such as:

https://imgur.com/

After uploading your image, you can post a link here.

>
> (BTW, I checked and checked and checked the filter with a fine-toothed 
> comb.)
>
>

Sometimes a fresh pair of eyes can see something that you yourself may 
miss it!!







-- 
With over 600 million devices now running Windows 10, customer 
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

--------------000502000307090006030503
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<html>
  <head>
    <meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body bgcolor="#FCFBE3" text="#000000">
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 14/04/2018 17:58, Dudley Brooks
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:mailman.373.1523725128.2176.support-thunderbird@lists.mozilla.org"
      type="cite">OK.  What's the etiquette for posting images in this
      ng?  I assume it's still not kosher to actually put them in the
      posting.
      <br>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    You need to use free image hosting sites such as:<br>
    <br>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://imgur.com/">https://imgur.com/</a><br>
    <br>
    After uploading your image, you can post a link here. <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:mailman.373.1523725128.2176.support-thunderbird@lists.mozilla.org"
      type="cite">
      <br>
      (BTW, I checked and checked and checked the filter with a
      fine-toothed comb.)
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    Sometimes a fresh pair of eyes can see something that you yourself
    may miss it!!<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
      <div class="moz-signature">
        <div style="width: 330px; background-color: blue; color:
          yellow;font-weight: bolder; font-size:150%; text-align:
          center; margin: 30px 5px 30px 5px;">With over 600 million
          devices now running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is
          higher than any previous version of windows.</div>
      </div>
    </div>
  </body>
</html>

--------------000502000307090006030503--
0
Good
4/14/2018 5:44:28 PM
Here's the filter in Thunderbird:

	https://i.imgur.com/p8IygJ1.png

This filter returns nothing when used on All Mail.

But here they are on gmail:

	https://i.imgur.com/BKA3pVe.png

This turns out to be one of the ones which *does* show up in Quick Filter:

	https://i.imgur.com/JOw3GOT.png

If the problem doesn't get solved, when I have time I'll look for one of 
the ones which doesn't show up even there.

But it *doesn't* show up in Extended Search:

	https://i.imgur.com/BKA3pVe.png


On 4/14/18 10:44 AM, Good Guy wrote:

> On 14/04/2018 17:58, Dudley Brooks wrote:
>
>> OK.  What's the etiquette for posting images in this ng?  I assume 
>> it's still not kosher to actually put them in the posting.
> 
> You need to use free image hosting sites such as:
> 
> https://imgur.com/
> 
> After uploading your image, you can post a link here.
> 
>>
>> (BTW, I checked and checked and checked the filter with a fine-toothed 
>> comb.)
>>
>>
> 
> Sometimes a fresh pair of eyes can see something that you yourself may 
> miss it!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> With over 600 million devices now running Windows 10, customer 
> satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

0
Dudley
4/14/2018 6:57:23 PM
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On 14/04/2018 19:57, Dudley Brooks wrote:
> Here's the filter in Thunderbird:
>
>     https://i.imgur.com/p8IygJ1.png
>
>

Try changing the order in "Perform these actions" to:

Copy Message to
Tag Message


Any reason why you want to "copy the message" rather than "Move the 
message"?  I would move the message because otherwise you'll get so many 
messages in your eMail system.

Good luck.








-- 
With over 600 million devices now running Windows 10, customer 
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

--------------97C05709A1CA173DAC46BCEC
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FCFBE3">
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 14/04/2018 19:57, Dudley Brooks
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:mailman.377.1523732276.2176.support-thunderbird@lists.mozilla.org">Here's
      the filter in Thunderbird:
      <br>
      <br>
          <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://i.imgur.com/p8IygJ1.png">https://i.imgur.com/p8IygJ1.png</a>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    Try changing the order in "Perform these actions" to:<br>
    <br>
    Copy Message to<br>
    Tag Message<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    Any reason why you want to "copy the message" rather than "Move the
    message"?  I would move the message because otherwise you'll get so
    many messages in your eMail system.<br>
    <br>
    Good luck.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
      <div style="width: 330px; background-color: blue; color:
        yellow;font-weight: bolder; font-size:150%; text-align: center;
        margin: 30px 5px 30px 5px;">With over 600 million devices now
        running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is higher than any
        previous version of windows.</div>
    </div>
  </body>
</html>

--------------97C05709A1CA173DAC46BCEC--
0
Good
4/14/2018 8:11:57 PM
On 4/14/18 2:57 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:
> Here's the filter in Thunderbird:
> 
>      https://i.imgur.com/p8IygJ1.png
> 
> This filter returns nothing when used on All Mail.


I would change the filter to:

Subject Contains: demang
Body Contains: demang
Subject Contains :mining
Body Contains; mining.

Or make separate filters. One for demang and one for mining.


> 
> But here they are on gmail:
> 
>      https://i.imgur.com/BKA3pVe.png


I don't see anything in that screenshot. I'm not familiar with TB on 
Mac. Is that Thunderbird?


> 
> This turns out to be one of the ones which *does* show up in Quick Filter:
> 
>      https://i.imgur.com/JOw3GOT.png


I don't see demang mining in any of the Subjects in that screen shot, or 
a demang mining folder in the Folder Pane.

It appears Quick Filter finds the messages.


> 
> If the problem doesn't get solved, when I have time I'll look for one of 
> the ones which doesn't show up even there.
> 
> But it *doesn't* show up in Extended Search:
> 
>      https://i.imgur.com/BKA3pVe.png
> 
> 


Extended Search? That shot is the same as the 2nd one above which 
appears empty to me.

Have you tried right clicking on the Inbox and using Search Messages?

-- 
GO PENS!
National Popular Vote <http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/>
Ubuntu 16.04LTS - Unity Desktop
0
WaltS48
4/14/2018 11:57:52 PM
I didn't mention that I have only just started creating filters, and for 
two reasons:

(1) For the future.  For that, I want the tags to show up while they're 
still in the Inbox, so I can see them immediately.  Then I always 
*manually* move them to All Mail (I keep my Inbox small), knowing that 
they have also already been copied to the right folder.  You may point 
out that if they're moved to any other folder then they're also 
automatically in All Mail.  But it's easier for me to always just move 
them to All Mail, rather than having to look for the right folder, maybe 
accidentally move them to the wrong folder, etc.  But again, I want to 
see them in Inbox *before* I move them (or before a filter would move them).

(2) For the past.  I'm running the filters on All Mail to catch 
everything from before I started using filters.

I suppose I could first write the filter with Move to catch the old 
stuff, then, when it's done, change it to Copy for the new stuff.

But the point is that my existing method has worked fine on most 
searches.  Just every now and then there's one that doesn't work (like 
the one I posted) and I'm trying to figure out why.  In particular, I'm 
trying to figure out why this particular phrase gets found in Quick 
Search but doesn't get found by either the filter or by Search Across 
All Folders.

On 4/14/18 1:11 PM, Good Guy wrote:

> On 14/04/2018 19:57, Dudley Brooks wrote:
>
>> Here's the filter in Thunderbird:
>>
>> https://i.imgur.com/p8IygJ1.png
>>
>>
> 
> Try changing the order in "Perform these actions" to:
> 
> Copy Message to
> Tag Message
> 
> 
> Any reason why you want to "copy the message" rather than "Move the 
> message"?  I would move the message because otherwise you'll get so many 
> messages in your eMail system.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> With over 600 million devices now running Windows 10, customer 
> satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

0
Dudley
4/15/2018 5:21:10 PM
On 15/04/18 18:21, Dudley Brooks wrote:

> =E2=80=A6 I always *manually* move them to All Mail=E2=80=A6
>
I really don't understand what you wish to achieve by "moving" a message =
to All Mail.

a) The "All Mail" folder is specific to gmail accounts, so as a technique=
, this is totally useless in every non-gmail account.
b) All of your messages are already in "All Mail", so I have no idea what=
 gmail is supposed to do in response to your moving them into "All Mail".=
 It is possibly equivalent to marking them as read then deleted.

The "All Mail" folders in all of my gmail accounts are all deliberately e=
xcluded from subscription and synchronization. I view the "All Mail" quas=
i-folder as a internal idiosyncrasy of Gmail's implementation of IMAP and=
 as such, merely part of their own arcane filing system. In my world, "Al=
l Mail" has no business in the folder pane in Thunderbird.

I too keep my Inbox small. I do this by moving messages into meaningfully=
 named subfolders. This technique works in all accounts, whether IMAP or =
POP, online or local, and regardless of providers' idiosyncrasies.
--=20
Chris


0
Chris
4/15/2018 6:38:15 PM
On 4/14/18 4:57 PM, WaltS48 wrote:

> On 4/14/18 2:57 PM, Dudley Brooks wrote:
>
>> Here's the filter in Thunderbird:
>>
>>      https://i.imgur.com/p8IygJ1.png
>>
>> This filter returns nothing when used on All Mail.
> 
> I would change the filter to:
> 
> Subject Contains: demang
> Body Contains: demang
> Subject Contains :mining
> Body Contains; mining.

That can't be done as a single filter, because it would have to be 
"(Subject Contains: demang or Body Contains: demang) and (Subject 
Contains: miring or Body Contains: miring)", and TB doesn't let you mix 
"and" and "or" (i.e. "all of" and "any of").

So it would have to be two separate filters:

> Or make separate filters. One for demang and one for mining.

I should mention that Demang Miring is the name of a Balinese Dance.  I 
have lots of messages about Balinese dances and pieces of music, and 
there are several that have Demang in their name and several that have 
Miring.  So two separate filters would give me *all* the Demangs and 
*all* the Mirings, and not find just Demang Miring.

Anyway, I have lots of other two-word filters that work just fine.  (I 
forget if I mentioned that there are only *certain* searches which 
aren't working, and this is one of them.)

>> But here they are on gmail:
>>
>>      https://i.imgur.com/BKA3pVe.png
> 
> I don't see anything in that screenshot. I'm not familiar with TB on 
> Mac. Is that Thunderbird?

Oops!  My mistake!  That's actually the screenshot of Extended Search. 
I accidentally posted it twice, instead of the screenshot of gmail.

Here's the correct one:

	https://i.imgur.com/Hlxqs4r.png

(I was only posting it to show that those messages actually exist.  But 
the screenshot of Quick Filter showed that anyway.)

Looking at the real gmail screenshot again, I do see something which 
*might* be relevant: "Demang Miring" is only in the *Body* of the 
messages -- there is no message which has it in the Subject.

>> This turns out to be one of the ones which *does* show up in Quick 
>> Filter:
>>
>>      https://i.imgur.com/JOw3GOT.png
> 
> I don't see demang mining in any of the Subjects in that screen shot,

See above.  It's only in the Body.  And, now that I posted the correct 
gmail screenshot, you can see that the messages found by Quick Filter 
are the same ones that showed up in gmail.  (Or *some* of the gmail 
ones.  Gmail by default seems to return "demang OR miring", which is why 
it returns more messages than TB's Quick Filter.)

I know that when TB works with an IMAP account it's very slow to search 
on Body.  But I let this one run for two days ... and still no results. 
And I have many other filters which have successfully returned messages 
where the search term is only in the Body.

> or 
> a demang mining folder in the Folder Pane.

It's a subfolder of "dance", which I didn't bother to expand, because it 
wasn't relevant -- I was only showing that Quick Filter *does* return 
messages.  But I realize now that the screenshot doesn't make that point 
clear, because, as you say, you can't *see* that those are the Demang 
Miring messages.  But they are!

> It appears Quick Filter finds the messages.
> 
>> If the problem doesn't get solved, when I have time I'll look for one 
>> of the ones which doesn't show up even there.
>>
>> But it *doesn't* show up in Extended Search:
>>
>>      https://i.imgur.com/BKA3pVe.png
> 
> Extended Search? That shot is the same as the 2nd one above which 
> appears empty to me.

Right.  *This* one really is Extended Search.  The other one was 
incorrect.  And yes, it *is* empty.  That was my point: Quick Filter 
works, but Extended Search and Filters don't.

> Have you tried right clicking on the Inbox and using Search Messages?

I'm running this filter on All Mail, not Inbox (searching for old 
messages, not new ones).  But I tried it just now, on All Mail ... and 
discovered that it doesn't include the option to search on Body!

And, of course, I'm trying to get a *filter* that works, so that it will 
be completely automatic.  (I'm *extremely* happy with all the filters 
which *are* working!)
0
Dudley
4/15/2018 6:48:14 PM
Sorry, I thought I explained this in the posting you're responding to. 
So let me expand my explanation.

Before I started writing filters I would read all the messages in Inbox, 
and manually move each one to the appropriate folder -- exactly as you 
do.  Besides being time-consuming, I would *frequently* forget to move a 
message or would accidentally move it to the wrong folder -- which is 
very easy to do: usually it would be to an adjacent folder.  So things 
would get "lost".

Now, I look over Inbox, see from the tag what everything is ... *and 
know that it has already been copied to the correct folder*.  Copied, so 
that it's still in Inbox and I can see all my new messages together!

Then, when I'm done looking through them, I select *all* the messages in 
Inbox and, in one fell swoop, manually move them from Inbox to All Mail 
..... *just to get them out of Inbox*, since, as you say, they are already 
in All Mail anyway.

Seems to me to be a very logical *and efficient* way to do it.  It only 
takes one step, and I know that it's done and that I'm not accidentally 
moving them to the wrong folder.  The whole point is to automate things, 
and this seems to be about as automated as it can get.

And it doesn't matter that it only works for gmail ... because I only 
have gmail!  And even if I ever get some other account, I can still 
route that account through gmail.

BTW, the point *still* has nothing to do with what the filter does 
*after* it finds the messages -- it's about the fact that there are some 
messages which the filter is not even finding.

On 4/15/18 11:38 AM, Chris Ramsden wrote:

> On 15/04/18 18:21, Dudley Brooks wrote:
> 
>> … I always *manually* move them to All Mail…
>>
> I really don't understand what you wish to achieve by "moving" a message to All Mail.
> 
> a) The "All Mail" folder is specific to gmail accounts, so as a technique, this is totally useless in every non-gmail account.
> b) All of your messages are already in "All Mail", so I have no idea what gmail is supposed to do in response to your moving them into "All Mail". It is possibly equivalent to marking them as read then deleted.
> 
> The "All Mail" folders in all of my gmail accounts are all deliberately excluded from subscription and synchronization. I view the "All Mail" quasi-folder as a internal idiosyncrasy of Gmail's implementation of IMAP and as such, merely part of their own arcane filing system. In my world, "All Mail" has no business in the folder pane in Thunderbird.
> 
> I too keep my Inbox small. I do this by moving messages into meaningfully named subfolders. This technique works in all accounts, whether IMAP or POP, online or local, and regardless of providers' idiosyncrasies.
> 

0
Dudley
4/15/2018 7:07:04 PM
In

	https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/imap-synchronization

I read

	"Thunderbird's full-text search of the message body is only available 
for messages that have been synchronized (that is, downloaded). For 
non-synchronized messages, only the message headers are searchable."

I didn't realize that I had never set TB to synchronize with gmail's 
IMAP.  And the filter in question evidently was the first search term I 
had used which was *only* contained in the Body.  (I had other search 
terms where I *thought* the filter was finding things in the Body. 
Turns out the filter was only finding them because the search term was 
also in the Subject.)

I *am* still mystified why Quick Filter was able to find messages whose 
search term was only in the Body.  But I'm not going to worry about it. 
Now that I've synchronized, the *main* filter is working properly.

On 4/14/18 11:57 AM, Dudley Brooks wrote:

> Here's the filter in Thunderbird:
> 
>      https://i.imgur.com/p8IygJ1.png
> 
> This filter returns nothing when used on All Mail.
> 
> But here they are on gmail:
> 
>      https://i.imgur.com/BKA3pVe.png
> 
> This turns out to be one of the ones which *does* show up in Quick Filter:
> 
>      https://i.imgur.com/JOw3GOT.png
> 
> If the problem doesn't get solved, when I have time I'll look for one of 
> the ones which doesn't show up even there.
> 
> But it *doesn't* show up in Extended Search:
> 
>      https://i.imgur.com/BKA3pVe.png
> 
> 
> On 4/14/18 10:44 AM, Good Guy wrote:
> 
>> On 14/04/2018 17:58, Dudley Brooks wrote:
>>
>>> OK.  What's the etiquette for posting images in this ng?  I assume 
>>> it's still not kosher to actually put them in the posting.
>>
>> You need to use free image hosting sites such as:
>>
>> https://imgur.com/
>>
>> After uploading your image, you can post a link here.
>>
>>>
>>> (BTW, I checked and checked and checked the filter with a 
>>> fine-toothed comb.)
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Sometimes a fresh pair of eyes can see something that you yourself may 
>> miss it!!
>>
>>
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>> -- 
>> With over 600 million devices now running Windows 10, customer 
>> satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.
> 

0
Dudley
4/17/2018 1:51:30 PM
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