Seeking replacement for Firefox... considering Seamonkey

I've used Seamonkey in the past, and really liked the way I could work on m=
y 'personal' website with the software.  I stopped using it when it was dec=
lared "obsolete" a few years ago.

I am being forced to abandon Firefox, which I've been using for around 15 y=
ears now (and really liked, until the later iterations).  I work from home,=
 and absolutely CANNOT have software automatically install updates and forc=
e me to shut down (without being able to access another website to alert pe=
ople).  I've tried all of the tricks I could find to prevent automatic inst=
allation of updates, but nothing has worked, and I do NOT want to loose my =
job because of the programmers refusing to listen to reason.

(1):  Can I LOCK OUT automatic installation of updates?  I MUST be able to =
choose when updating happens.

(2): How up-to-date is Seamonkey kept?  I already have strong security on m=
y system, but need to avoid security holes.

(3) How easy is it now to migrate Bookmarks, passwords, and so on?

(4): "Bonus" question - is the composer still part of Seamonkey?

I use Ubuntu 18:04 LTS - switched to it around the time I abandoned Office =
and IE (for security and other valid reasons).

Thanks!

Bob
0
Bob
9/4/2020 4:59:13 PM
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On 9/4/20 12:59 PM, Bob wrote:
> I've used Seamonkey in the past, and really liked the way I could work on my 'personal' website with the software.  I stopped using it when it was declared "obsolete" a few years ago.
> 
> I am being forced to abandon Firefox, which I've been using for around 15 years now (and really liked, until the later iterations).  I work from home, and absolutely CANNOT have software automatically install updates and force me to shut down (without being able to access another website to alert people).  I've tried all of the tricks I could find to prevent automatic installation of updates, but nothing has worked, and I do NOT want to loose my job because of the programmers refusing to listen to reason.
> 
> (1):  Can I LOCK OUT automatic installation of updates?  I MUST be able to choose when updating happens.
> 
> (2): How up-to-date is Seamonkey kept?  I already have strong security on my system, but need to avoid security holes.
> 
> (3) How easy is it now to migrate Bookmarks, passwords, and so on?
> 
> (4): "Bonus" question - is the composer still part of Seamonkey?
> 
> I use Ubuntu 18:04 LTS - switched to it around the time I abandoned Office and IE (for security and other valid reasons).
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Bob
> 

Are you using the distributions build of Firefox on Ubuntu 18.04 LTS?

You could install a version of Firefox you like from 
<https://archive.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/>

I hear you can change the update channel from release to none or default 
in channel-prefs.js and it won't update. (Not verified by me)

Updates in SeaMonkey are broken so you should be able to install and be 
happy.

Can't comment on 2 or 3.

Composer is still an unsupported component of SeaMonkey and no longer 
being updated. AIUI.

Good Luck!

-- 
OS: Ubuntu Linux 18.04LTS - Gnome Desktop
https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/get-involved/
https://give.thunderbird.net/en-US/
0
WaltS48
9/4/2020 5:12:45 PM
Bob wrote:
> I've used Seamonkey in the past, and really liked the way I could work on my 'personal' website with the software.  I stopped using it when it was declared "obsolete" a few years ago.
> 
> I am being forced to abandon Firefox, which I've been using for around 15 years now (and really liked, until the later iterations).  I work from home, and absolutely CANNOT have software automatically install updates and force me to shut down (without being able to access another website to alert people).  I've tried all of the tricks I could find to prevent automatic installation of updates, but nothing has worked, and I do NOT want to loose my job because of the programmers refusing to listen to reason.
> 
> (1):  Can I LOCK OUT automatic installation of updates?  I MUST be able to choose when updating happens.
> 
> (2): How up-to-date is Seamonkey kept?  I already have strong security on my system, but need to avoid security holes.
> 
> (3) How easy is it now to migrate Bookmarks, passwords, and so on?
> 
> (4): "Bonus" question - is the composer still part of Seamonkey?
> 
> I use Ubuntu 18:04 LTS - switched to it around the time I abandoned Office and IE (for security and other valid reasons).
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Bob
> 
I like SeaMonkey, and I also like Pale Moon.  You might want to try that 
one as well.

You can block automatic updates of the application and of the add-ons as 
well.  For the add-ons, you can allow updates (by clicking something) 
but block automatic updates.  I found the easiest way to do that was to 
go into about:config and look up "update".

It seems to me that Pale Moon is a bit more up-to-date as far as 
security is concerned, but i like both.

It is very easy to export bookmarks from one browser and import them 
into any other browser.  For passwords, you need the encryption key 
(key4.db) as well as the logins.json file.

The composer is still part of SeaMOnkey but it is not up-to=date.

0
EE
9/4/2020 6:12:52 PM
Bob wrote:

> 
> (1):  Can I LOCK OUT automatic installation of updates?  I MUST be
> able to choose when updating happens.

Right now, the internal capacity for updates is broken.  The only way to 
update is a manual download/install, at least for Windows/Mac.

On my Ubuntu box, I do have the ubuntuzilla repository enabled, and it 
happens frequently enough that that installation gets updated through 
package updating processes before I get around to updating Windows or Mac.

> 
> (2): How up-to-date is Seamonkey kept?  I already have strong
> security on my system, but need to avoid security holes.

I believe that security updates up through Firefox ESR 68.10 have been 
backported, and developer notes indicate that there's a little bit of 
stuff from 78.0 ESR that have been backported, as well.

> 
> (3) How easy is it now to migrate Bookmarks, passwords, and so on?

Not sure.  For Bookmarks, you can probably start with export to HTML, 
and then import that into Seamonkey, but I've never tried that.  That 
process is pretty much standard for moving stuff from one profile to 
another, whether Firefox or Seamonkey.

As an aside, one of the things that I do with Seamonkey is to make use 
of the tool that allows for automatic export of bookmarks at the end of 
the session.  From there, with other browsers and profiles, I tend to 
set them to use that file as their home page, and as a result, all of my 
browsers have access to all of my bookmarks, at least as of the end of 
my last Seamonkey session.  The visual layout isn't great, but it's an 
easy way to share bookmarks.

I haven't tried to migrate passwords, so I can't comment there.  There 
might be something in an article at mozillazine.org

You probably can't copy files from one profile to another, even if 
they're all the same file name.  In the same way that Firefox versions 
after about 57.0 are not backward-compatible, the same applies to 
Seamonkey since 2.53.0. If you want to test, you probably can copy files 
(e.g., bookmarks, passwords) from a Firefox profile to a Seamonkey 
profile where you understand that what Seamonkey is interacting with is 
test copies (and you still consider your Firefox data to be 
authoritative), it might work, but if it doesn't, then you'll see the 
effects of what "not backward portable" looks like.

Ultimately, for live data, you're going to want to export/import, rather 
than trying to copy.

> 
> (4): "Bonus" question - is the composer still part of Seamonkey?

It's still there, usable, but unsupported.  I have a handful of HTML 
files that I used to maintain with the composer -- I really like the 
convenience of viewing something, and pressing CTRL-E to be able to 
edit.  However, a couple of years ago, I moved to using the stand-alone 
Kompozer, which has a little more capacity.  It's also unsupported, but 
it's newer than using the bundled composer.  Much newer (and supported, 
I think) is Blue Griffon, but I find that has enough UI quirks to it 
that I prefer Kompozer.


> I use Ubuntu 18:04 LTS - switched to it around the time I abandoned
> Office and IE (for security and other valid reasons).

Although I primarily work in Windows 10, I do use Seamonkey on an 
installation that I just upgraded to Ubuntu 18.04 from 16.04, and it 
pretty much behaves the same way in Ubuntu as it does in Windows. 
Because I have a strong preference for doing package maintenance by 
repository and APT, and since Ubuntu's maintainers no longer distribute 
Seamonkey, I'm getting my updates from ubuntuzilla.


The one thing to be aware of is that there's a growing number of sites 
that claim not to be able to handle Seamonkey, and demand Firefox. 
Seamonkey 2.53.3 is set to show compatibility with Firefox 60, but 
that's now old enough that more sites are objecting unless they see 
Firefox levels at at least 68.0.  Most sites are satisfied if they see 
"Firefox 68.0" and you can do that with making one or more entries in 
about:config (either global or site-specific).  It's not so much that 
sites *can't* handle Seamonkey, by making use of features that Firefox 
78 has and Seamonkey 2.53.3 does not, so much as site operators that 
don't want users to run browsers that they deem to be "old" or 
"insecure" or just "not Firefox" (the latter for purposes of user support).

Smith

0
NFN
9/4/2020 7:18:00 PM
Bob wrote:
> I've used Seamonkey in the past, and really liked the way I could work on my 'personal' website with the software.  I stopped using it when it was declared "obsolete" a few years ago.
> 
> I am being forced to abandon Firefox, which I've been using for around 15 years now (and really liked, until the later iterations).  I work from home, and absolutely CANNOT have software automatically install updates and force me to shut down (without being able to access another website to alert people).  I've tried all of the tricks I could find to prevent automatic installation of updates, but nothing has worked, and I do NOT want to loose my job because of the programmers refusing to listen to reason.
> 
> (1):  Can I LOCK OUT automatic installation of updates?  I MUST be able to choose when updating happens.
> 
> (2): How up-to-date is Seamonkey kept?  I already have strong security on my system, but need to avoid security holes.
> 
> (3) How easy is it now to migrate Bookmarks, passwords, and so on?
> 
> (4): "Bonus" question - is the composer still part of Seamonkey?
> 
I started using internet apps first in OS/2 then Win, now mostly Win. 
Linux has never presented it self as the solution to any problem I have.

I use the suite for most everything and FF sites where SM doesn't work.

I have had Pale Moon linked to Fossa, but am not currently using them.

The composer works.  I have over a hundred filters.  I don't know what 
"old" or "supported" has to do with anything.

Since Netscape 1.0 I have never "installed" any Netscape derivative 
using anything but ZIP distros.  The suite has never offered or tried to 
"update" for me.  FF offers and I just tell it no.  I add newer versions 
alongside the previous and if I decide I like the newer better I delete 
the older.  Yes, I know to be aware of bookmark issues.


Ray



0
Ray
9/4/2020 11:56:48 PM
Bob wrote:
> I've used Seamonkey in the past, and really liked the way I could work on my 'personal' website with the software.  I stopped using it when it was declared "obsolete" a few years ago.
> 
> I am being forced to abandon Firefox, which I've been using for around 15 years now (and really liked, until the later iterations).  I work from home, and absolutely CANNOT have software automatically install updates and force me to shut down (without being able to access another website to alert people).  I've tried all of the tricks I could find to prevent automatic installation of updates, but nothing has worked, and I do NOT want to loose my job because of the programmers refusing to listen to reason.
> 
> (1):  Can I LOCK OUT automatic installation of updates?  I MUST be able to choose when updating happens.
> 
> (2): How up-to-date is Seamonkey kept?  I already have strong security on my system, but need to avoid security holes.
> 
> (3) How easy is it now to migrate Bookmarks, passwords, and so on?
> 
> (4): "Bonus" question - is the composer still part of Seamonkey?
> 
> I use Ubuntu 18:04 LTS - switched to it around the time I abandoned Office and IE (for security and other valid reasons).
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Bob
> 

If all you want is to stop FF updating, look at 
https://www.journeybytes.com/disable-firefox-quantum-updates/ .

I had the reverse problem in a previous job, I wanted to be able to 
install FF updates (the automatic ones there had several deficiencies) 
so I had to find out how they had disabled them and reverse it.
They had set something up in the Policies which I had to remove again.
Looking at my notes from back then,
-  defaults\pref\local-settings.js contained a pointer (filename) to a 
file mozilla.cfg
- this mozilla.cfg had a large number of really irritating settings.

Bottom line, do a search on: firefox local-settings.js mozilla.cfg
and you will see how to change defaults.  This is normally used for 
company-wide policies.

-- 
spammo ergo sum, viruses courtesy of https://www.nsa.gov/malware/
0
Don
9/5/2020 11:54:10 AM
Bob wrote:
> I've used Seamonkey in the past, and really liked the way I could work on my 'personal' website with the software.  I stopped using it when it was declared "obsolete" a few years ago.
> 
> I am being forced to abandon Firefox, which I've been using for around 15 years now (and really liked, until the later iterations).  I work from home, and absolutely CANNOT have software automatically install updates and force me to shut down (without being able to access another website to alert people).  I've tried all of the tricks I could find to prevent automatic installation of updates, but nothing has worked, and I do NOT want to loose my job because of the programmers refusing to listen to reason.
> 
> (1):  Can I LOCK OUT automatic installation of updates?  I MUST be able to choose when updating happens.
> 
> (2): How up-to-date is Seamonkey kept?  I already have strong security on my system, but need to avoid security holes.
> 
> (3) How easy is it now to migrate Bookmarks, passwords, and so on?
> 
> (4): "Bonus" question - is the composer still part of Seamonkey?
> 
> I use Ubuntu 18:04 LTS - switched to it around the time I abandoned Office and IE (for security and other valid reasons).
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Bob
> 
Nowadays there is no a perfect browser. I use Epic, Tor, FF, Brave, 
Vivaldi, Opera and Chrome too.
0
lesm
9/5/2020 12:28:06 PM
On 9/5/2020 5:28 AM, lesm wrote:
....
> Nowadays there is no a perfect browser. I use Epic, Tor, FF, Brave, 
> Vivaldi, Opera and Chrome too.

Which one do you use the most? I still use SM the most. Firefox is my 
back up if problems. IE and Chrome are very rare.
-- 
Life's so loco! ..!.. *isms, sins, hates, (d)evil, illnesses (e.g., 
COVID-19/2019-nCoV/SARS-CoV-2), deaths (RIP), interruptions, stresses, 
heat waves, fires, out(r)ages, dramas, unlucky #4, 2020, greeds, bugs 
(e.g., crashes & female mosquitoes), etc. Note: A fixed width font 
(Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
    /\___/\                     http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.ma.cx /
   / /\ /\ \                                 http://antfarm.home.dhs.org
  | |o   o| |   Axe ANT from its address if shown & e-mailing privately.
     \ _ /     Please kindly use :( Ant nickname & URL/link if crediting.
      ( )
0
Ant
9/5/2020 5:54:45 PM
On Saturday, September 5, 2020 at 7:54:17 AM UTC-4, Don Spam's Reckless Son=
 wrote:
> Bob wrote:=20
> > I've used Seamonkey in the past, and really liked the way I could work =
on my 'personal' website with the software. I stopped using it when it was =
declared "obsolete" a few years ago.=20
> >=20
> > I am being forced to abandon Firefox, which I've been using for around =
15 years now (and really liked, until the later iterations). I work from ho=
me, and absolutely CANNOT have software automatically install updates and f=
orce me to shut down (without being able to access another website to alert=
 people). I've tried all of the tricks I could find to prevent automatic in=
stallation of updates, but nothing has worked, and I do NOT want to loose m=
y job because of the programmers refusing to listen to reason.=20
> >=20
> > (1): Can I LOCK OUT automatic installation of updates? I MUST be able t=
o choose when updating happens.=20
> >=20
> > (2): How up-to-date is Seamonkey kept? I already have strong security o=
n my system, but need to avoid security holes.=20
> >=20
> > (3) How easy is it now to migrate Bookmarks, passwords, and so on?=20
> >=20
> > (4): "Bonus" question - is the composer still part of Seamonkey?=20
> >=20
> > I use Ubuntu 18:04 LTS - switched to it around the time I abandoned Off=
ice and IE (for security and other valid reasons).=20
> >=20
> > Thanks!=20
> >=20
> > Bob=20
> >
> If all you want is to stop FF updating, look at=20
> https://www.journeybytes.com/disable-firefox-quantum-updates/ .=20
>=20
> I had the reverse problem in a previous job, I wanted to be able to=20
> install FF updates (the automatic ones there had several deficiencies)=20
> so I had to find out how they had disabled them and reverse it.=20
> They had set something up in the Policies which I had to remove again.=20
> Looking at my notes from back then,=20
> - defaults\pref\local-settings.js contained a pointer (filename) to a=20
> file mozilla.cfg=20
> - this mozilla.cfg had a large number of really irritating settings.=20
>=20
> Bottom line, do a search on: firefox local-settings.js mozilla.cfg=20
> and you will see how to change defaults. This is normally used for=20
> company-wide policies.=20
>=20
> --=20
> spammo ergo sum, viruses courtesy of https://www.nsa.gov/malware/

None of that really works for me... I don't use Windows, and the Linux vers=
ion is completely different.
I don't mind FF downloading the update, I just CANNOT have it install it un=
til I"m ready - and FF has changed how to disable auto-install several time=
s now, with each time being completely different.  If they changed again an=
d I was at a critical point - I could lose my job - at least making for a V=
ERY bad day.
0
Bob
9/6/2020 3:09:32 PM
On 9/6/20 11:09 AM, Bob wrote:
> On Saturday, September 5, 2020 at 7:54:17 AM UTC-4, Don Spam's Reckless Son wrote:
>> Bob wrote:
>>> I've used Seamonkey in the past, and really liked the way I could work on my 'personal' website with the software. I stopped using it when it was declared "obsolete" a few years ago.
>>>
>>> I am being forced to abandon Firefox, which I've been using for around 15 years now (and really liked, until the later iterations). I work from home, and absolutely CANNOT have software automatically install updates and force me to shut down (without being able to access another website to alert people). I've tried all of the tricks I could find to prevent automatic installation of updates, but nothing has worked, and I do NOT want to loose my job because of the programmers refusing to listen to reason.
>>>
>>> (1): Can I LOCK OUT automatic installation of updates? I MUST be able to choose when updating happens.
>>>
>>> (2): How up-to-date is Seamonkey kept? I already have strong security on my system, but need to avoid security holes.
>>>
>>> (3) How easy is it now to migrate Bookmarks, passwords, and so on?
>>>
>>> (4): "Bonus" question - is the composer still part of Seamonkey?
>>>
>>> I use Ubuntu 18:04 LTS - switched to it around the time I abandoned Office and IE (for security and other valid reasons).
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>> If all you want is to stop FF updating, look at
>> https://www.journeybytes.com/disable-firefox-quantum-updates/ .
>>
>> I had the reverse problem in a previous job, I wanted to be able to
>> install FF updates (the automatic ones there had several deficiencies)
>> so I had to find out how they had disabled them and reverse it.
>> They had set something up in the Policies which I had to remove again.
>> Looking at my notes from back then,
>> - defaults\pref\local-settings.js contained a pointer (filename) to a
>> file mozilla.cfg
>> - this mozilla.cfg had a large number of really irritating settings.
>>
>> Bottom line, do a search on: firefox local-settings.js mozilla.cfg
>> and you will see how to change defaults. This is normally used for
>> company-wide policies.
>>
>> -- 
>> spammo ergo sum, viruses courtesy of https://www.nsa.gov/malware/
> 
> None of that really works for me... I don't use Windows, and the Linux version is completely different.
> I don't mind FF downloading the update, I just CANNOT have it install it until I"m ready - and FF has changed how to disable auto-install several times now, with each time being completely different.  If they changed again and I was at a critical point - I could lose my job - at least making for a VERY bad day.
> 

Use a Linux distribution like Ubuntu that provides a Firefox version 
with no update setting in preferences at all.

When the Software Updater offers an update, just remove the check mark 
from the checkbox.

-- 
OS: Ubuntu Linux 18.04LTS - Gnome Desktop
https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/get-involved/
https://give.thunderbird.net/en-US/
0
WaltS48
9/6/2020 3:51:18 PM
Bob wrote:

> 
> I am being forced to abandon Firefox, which I've been using for around 15 years now (and really liked, until the later iterations).  I work from home, and absolutely CANNOT have software automatically install updates and force me to shut down (without being able to access another website to alert people).  I've tried all of the tricks I could find to prevent automatic installation of updates, but nothing has worked, and I do NOT want to loose my job because of the programmers refusing to listen to reason.

If you download firefox as a tar and put it in /usr/local, you can then
change the owner of that folder to something different from the user you
normally use with firefox. So for example set up a user called firefox
and then:

chown -R firefox:users /usr/local/firefox

This prevents firefox from updating itself when you are not logged in as
firefox.

You need to link the executable into /usr/local/bin

ln -s /usr/local/firefox/firefox /usr/local/bin/firefox

0
Richmond
9/7/2020 3:55:30 AM
> > None of that really works for me... I don't use Windows, and the Linux =
version is completely different.=20
> > I don't mind FF downloading the update, I just CANNOT have it install i=
t until I"m ready - and FF has changed how to disable auto-install several =
times now, with each time being completely different. If they changed again=
 and I was at a critical point - I could lose my job - at least making for =
a VERY bad day.=20
> >
> Use a Linux distribution like Ubuntu that provides a Firefox version=20
> with no update setting in preferences at all.=20
>=20
> When the Software Updater offers an update, just remove the check mark=20
> from the checkbox.
> --=20
> OS: Ubuntu Linux 18.04LTS - Gnome Desktop=20
> https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/get-involved/=20
> https://give.thunderbird.net/en-US/

I'm using Ubuntu 18.04LTS, and have been using Ubuntu since 2010.  The vers=
ion of Firefox is what came with the distro, and when I bought this new sys=
tem, the first thing I did was literally crash and trash W10, so I could re=
partition and reformat the drive and install Ubuntu (I think 16.04LTS) alon=
g with the distro FF version.  It's been quite a few years I've fought with=
 Firefox over the autoinstall... it created some headaches when I was takin=
g classes.

0
Bob
9/7/2020 4:13:57 PM
> If you download firefox as a tar and put it in /usr/local, you can then=
=20
> change the owner of that folder to something different from the user you=
=20
> normally use with firefox. So for example set up a user called firefox=20
> and then:=20
>=20
> chown -R firefox:users /usr/local/firefox=20
>=20
> This prevents firefox from updating itself when you are not logged in as=
=20
> firefox.=20
>=20
> You need to link the executable into /usr/local/bin=20
>=20
> ln -s /usr/local/firefox/firefox /usr/local/bin/firefox

Interesting idea.  I've only got a couple of different users set up (variou=
s levels of security - one for usage and one for maintenance/repairs, besid=
es actual security software), and I wonder how the install I have now would=
 work if I set up a new low-level user and just changed the ownership of FF=
..  That way it would help to isolate the browser from everything else and c=
reate another layer of security.  We do have a skilled hacker in the area (=
he used to get into our router through the cable, turn on the wireless and =
removed all security from it, and was probably using it for games - huge do=
wnloads of data - but our local 'finest', like usual, refused to do anythin=
g about it).
0
Bob
9/7/2020 4:27:30 PM
On 9/4/20 12:59 PM, Bob wrote:
> I've used Seamonkey in the past, and really liked the way I could work on my 'personal' website with the software.  I stopped using it when it was declared "obsolete" a few years ago.
> 
> I am being forced to abandon Firefox, which I've been using for around 15 years now (and really liked, until the later iterations).  I work from home, and absolutely CANNOT have software automatically install updates and force me to shut down (without being able to access another website to alert people).  I've tried all of the tricks I could find to prevent automatic installation of updates, but nothing has worked, and I do NOT want to loose my job because of the programmers refusing to listen to reason.
> 
> (1):  Can I LOCK OUT automatic installation of updates?  I MUST be able to choose when updating happens.
> 
> (2): How up-to-date is Seamonkey kept?  I already have strong security on my system, but need to avoid security holes.
> 
> (3) How easy is it now to migrate Bookmarks, passwords, and so on?
> 
> (4): "Bonus" question - is the composer still part of Seamonkey?
> 
> I use Ubuntu 18:04 LTS - switched to it around the time I abandoned Office and IE (for security and other valid reasons).
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Bob
> 
I also got sick and tired of all of the updates that kept coming from 
Firefox and each time something else got "broken" (by that I mean 
add-ons that stopped working because they were no longer being 
maintained and no longer compatible with the latest Firefox updates).

I have Pale Moon, but it doesn't support the Widevine DRM plug in that 
allows me to watch Netflix (and it also doesn't have nearly the add-on 
support that Firefox has).

For me the best solution was Firefox ESR.  It only gets a major update 
about once a year, otherwise it's just security fixes that get back 
ported.  Much less disruptive.

-- 
Jaime A. Cruz

Nassau Wings Motorcycle Club
http://www.nassauwings.org/

AMA District 34
https://www.amad34.org/
0
Cruz
9/8/2020 10:41:01 AM
Reply: