Seamonkey Mail crashes at opening

[Seamonkey 2.49.5 on Windows 10 (up to date)]

I've used Seamonkey for many years, mainly for the Mail client. Love it. Fo=
r the past couple of months I've had problems when starting Mail (using v2.=
49.2) where it would crash almost immediately after opening. It would, howe=
ver, instantiate the Mail window for a second or so, and sometimes if I cli=
cked into a folder in one of my mail accounts in that initial second it wou=
ld just work normally. Usually took me 4-6 startup attempts to get it to st=
ay running. Once running it was mostly solid for until I rebooted or exited=
 Mail. Nothing else was affected. I could run Browser, Address Book, Compos=
er just fine all the time.

Yesterday I realized that Seamonkey was no longer auto-updating so I update=
d manually to 2.49.5 (latest). With this version the crashes still happen b=
ut are now immediate after launching it (either directly via the -mail flag=
 or by clicking the envelope icon in Browser). It doesn't launch the window=
 at all now so my trick above is useless.

I tried all the usual troubleshooting steps:

 - Start with a new profile. With a new profile it will run Mail one time, =
but on the next launch it goes back to crashing. This is regardless of whet=
her I set up a mail account or not.=20
 - Clean install, by doing full uninstall and removing the C:\Users\myuser\=
AppData\Local\Mozilla\Seamonkey\Profiles\<profilename> folder entirely. Sam=
e as above.
 - Run Windows in safe mode. Same result.
 - Revert back to 2.49.2. Same result.
 - Disable hardware acceleration. Same.
 - Disable my antivirus software. Same.
=20
Bear in mind that at this point I have zero mail accounts set up and am tot=
ally default on all Seamonkey settings, with nothing added or changed. The =
only way I can get it to work now is by starting Seamonkey in safe mode. Wh=
en I do that it works fine. But obviously this is not ideal, especially sin=
ce it won't save any UI changes between sessions (reordering columns, expan=
ding e-mail account trees, etc.). I have configured my mail accounts while =
in Seamonkey safe mode and things work great between starts as long as I us=
e safe mode every time. It is just the lack of control on the above that I =
don't like. I suppose I could just always run it in safe mode and get used =
to the lack of ability to change things, but I'm bothered by the whole situ=
ation.

Since I did a full uninstall/reinstall and did not add any themes or add-on=
s I know those are not the issue. So what else is it about safe mode that c=
ould allow mail to start when all of the other things are ruled out?

Thanks!
0
BigBlue
10/31/2019 2:16:22 AM
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BigBlue wrote:
> [Seamonkey 2.49.5 on Windows 10 (up to date)]
> 

> Since I did a full uninstall/reinstall and did not add any themes or add-ons I know those are not the issue. So what else is it about safe mode that could allow mail to start when all of the other things are ruled out?
> 
> Thanks!
> 

Video driver antivirus? Best to post a crash id.

FRG
0
Frank
10/31/2019 10:39:20 AM
On 31/10/19 02:16, BigBlue wrote:
> [Seamonkey 2.49.5 on Windows 10 (up to date)]
> 
> ... With this version the crashes still happen but are now immediate after launching it (either directly via the -mail flag or by clicking the envelope icon in Browser). ...
> 
> I tried all the usual troubleshooting steps:
> 
>   - Start with a new profile. With a new profile it will run Mail one time, but on the next launch it goes back to crashing. This is regardless of whether I set up a mail account or not.
>   - Clean install, by doing full uninstall and removing the C:\Users\myuser\AppData\Local\Mozilla\Seamonkey\Profiles\<profilename> folder entirely. Same as above.
>   - Run Windows in safe mode. Same result.
>   - Revert back to 2.49.2. Same result.
>   - Disable hardware acceleration. Same.
>   - Disable my antivirus software. Same.
>   
> Bear in mind that at this point I have zero mail accounts set up and am totally default on all Seamonkey settings, with nothing added or changed. The only way I can get it to work now is by starting Seamonkey in safe mode. When I do that it works fine.  > ... So what else is it about safe mode that could allow mail to start 
when all of the other things are ruled out?

It works with safe mode.

"    Safe Mode temporarily affects the following:

     All extensions are disabled.
     The default theme is used, without a persona.
     The Just-in-time (JIT) JavaScript compiler is disabled.
     The userChrome.css and userContent.css files are ignored.
     The default toolbar layout is used.
     Hardware acceleration is disabled.
"

It crashes with a default profile on the second (and subsequent) run.

Therefore there is some problem with the way the profile is saved and 
reloaded, that only seems to affect your system and SM installation.

How is disk health in this PC?

Has Windows 10 been updated recently? x64/x86?

/df

-- 
London
UK
0
Dirk
10/31/2019 12:07:06 PM
On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 5:39:27 AM UTC-5, Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:
> BigBlue wrote:
> > [Seamonkey 2.49.5 on Windows 10 (up to date)]
> > 
> 
> > Since I did a full uninstall/reinstall and did not add any themes or add-ons I know those are not the issue. So what else is it about safe mode that could allow mail to start when all of the other things are ruled out?
> > 
> > Thanks!
> > 
> 
> Video driver antivirus? Best to post a crash id.
> 
> FRG

I have active AV and I did run MalwareBytes to double-check. What does it mean to post a crash id?
0
BigBlue
10/31/2019 12:49:46 PM
On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 7:07:12 AM UTC-5, nor...@googlegroups.com =
wrote:

> It works with safe mode.
>=20
> "    Safe Mode temporarily affects the following:
>=20
>      All extensions are disabled.
>      The default theme is used, without a persona.
>      The Just-in-time (JIT) JavaScript compiler is disabled.
>      The userChrome.css and userContent.css files are ignored.
>      The default toolbar layout is used.
>      Hardware acceleration is disabled.
> "
>=20
> It crashes with a default profile on the second (and subsequent) run.
>=20
> Therefore there is some problem with the way the profile is saved and=20
> reloaded, that only seems to affect your system and SM installation.
>=20
> How is disk health in this PC?
>=20
> Has Windows 10 been updated recently? x64/x86?
>=20

So I was going through that list before I originally posted. It seems like =
with a fresh install almost everything is rules out between safe mode and a=
 normal run with default settings (theme, addons, toolbar layout) and I did=
 explicitly try disabling hardware acceleration, which made no difference. =
I don't know exactly what the two *.css files do, but I'd assume on a fresh=
 install with stock/default new profile they would be irrelevant. I couldn'=
t find any way to make a change to Java outside of safe mode, but with a fr=
esh install and zero accounts/content would that matter?

The PC is otherwise well cared for and healthy. It is 64-bit Windows 10 Hom=
e on 32GB memory system that is 1 year old. Always had AV. Fully up-to-date=
 on Windows updates. Disk is SSD and has shown no indications of issues. I =
suppose I can force a ckddsk just in case.

Thanks.
0
BigBlue
10/31/2019 12:56:30 PM
On 31/10/19 12:56, BigBlue wrote:
> 
> ... >
> 
> ...I don't know exactly what the two *.css files do, but I'd assume on a fresh install with stock/default new profile they would be irrelevant. 

Override styles of the application (userChrome) or web pages 
(userContent), and yes.

> 								I couldn't find any way to make a change to Java outside of safe mode, but with a fresh install and zero accounts/content would that matter?

Once you could disable the JS JIT compiler by making both these boolean 
settings false in about:config: javascript.options.jit.content and 
javascript.options.jit.chrome. But this is also likely to be irrelevant.
> 
> The PC is otherwise well cared for and healthy. It is 64-bit Windows 10 Home on 32GB memory system that is 1 year old. Always had AV. Fully up-to-date on Windows updates. Disk is SSD and has shown no indications of issues. I suppose I can force a ckddsk just in case.

You could.

Is SM 64- or 32-bit? What happens if you try the other bit-ness?

And as frg says, a crash ID would help (about:crashes).

/df

-- 
London
UK
0
Dirk
10/31/2019 2:08:49 PM
On 10/31/19 8:49 AM, BigBlue wrote:
> On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 5:39:27 AM UTC-5, Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:
>> BigBlue wrote:
>>> [Seamonkey 2.49.5 on Windows 10 (up to date)]
>>>
>>
>>> Since I did a full uninstall/reinstall and did not add any themes or add-ons I know those are not the issue. So what else is it about safe mode that could allow mail to start when all of the other things are ruled out?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>
>> Video driver antivirus? Best to post a crash id.
>>
>> FRG
> 
> I have active AV and I did run MalwareBytes to double-check. What does it mean to post a crash id?
> 

It means you type about:crashes into the address bar, then copy the most 
recent link and post it into a reply.

-- 
OS: Ubuntu Linux 18.04LTS - Gnome Desktop
https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/get-involved/
0
WaltS48
10/31/2019 2:10:40 PM
On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 10:16:24 PM UTC-4, BigBlue wrote:
> [Seamonkey 2.49.5 on Windows 10 (up to date)]
>=20
> I've used Seamonkey for many years, mainly for the Mail client. Love it. =
For the past couple of months I've had problems when starting Mail (using v=
2.49.2) where it would crash almost immediately after opening. It would, ho=
wever, instantiate the Mail window for a second or so, and sometimes if I c=
licked into a folder in one of my mail accounts in that initial second it w=
ould just work normally. Usually took me 4-6 startup attempts to get it to =
stay running. Once running it was mostly solid for until I rebooted or exit=
ed Mail. Nothing else was affected. I could run Browser, Address Book, Comp=
oser just fine all the time.
>=20
> Yesterday I realized that Seamonkey was no longer auto-updating so I upda=
ted manually to 2.49.5 (latest). With this version the crashes still happen=
 but are now immediate after launching it (either directly via the -mail fl=
ag or by clicking the envelope icon in Browser). It doesn't launch the wind=
ow at all now so my trick above is useless.
>=20
> I tried all the usual troubleshooting steps:
>=20
>  - Start with a new profile. With a new profile it will run Mail one time=
, but on the next launch it goes back to crashing. This is regardless of wh=
ether I set up a mail account or not.=20
>  - Clean install, by doing full uninstall and removing the C:\Users\myuse=
r\AppData\Local\Mozilla\Seamonkey\Profiles\<profilename> folder entirely. S=
ame as above.
>  - Run Windows in safe mode. Same result.
>  - Revert back to 2.49.2. Same result.
>  - Disable hardware acceleration. Same.
>  - Disable my antivirus software. Same.
> =20
> Bear in mind that at this point I have zero mail accounts set up and am t=
otally default on all Seamonkey settings, with nothing added or changed. Th=
e only way I can get it to work now is by starting Seamonkey in safe mode. =
When I do that it works fine. But obviously this is not ideal, especially s=
ince it won't save any UI changes between sessions (reordering columns, exp=
anding e-mail account trees, etc.). I have configured my mail accounts whil=
e in Seamonkey safe mode and things work great between starts as long as I =
use safe mode every time. It is just the lack of control on the above that =
I don't like. I suppose I could just always run it in safe mode and get use=
d to the lack of ability to change things, but I'm bothered by the whole si=
tuation.
>=20
> Since I did a full uninstall/reinstall and did not add any themes or add-=
ons I know those are not the issue. So what else is it about safe mode that=
 could allow mail to start when all of the other things are ruled out?
>=20
> Thanks!

I'm getting worried. I still have 2.49.4 and it is working fine.  These rec=
ent threads about serious problems with any version after 2.49.4 has me lee=
ry of updating to 2.49.5.  These threads tell me that you folks are obvious=
ly out of my league of expertise. Is it safe for me to go to 2.49.5?  TIA. =
 Bud Krueger
0
budkrueger3
10/31/2019 2:28:51 PM
On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 9:10:46 AM UTC-5, WaltS48 wrote:
> On 10/31/19 8:49 AM, BigBlue wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 5:39:27 AM UTC-5, Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:
> >> BigBlue wrote:
> >>> [Seamonkey 2.49.5 on Windows 10 (up to date)]
> >>>
> >>
> >>> Since I did a full uninstall/reinstall and did not add any themes or add-ons I know those are not the issue. So what else is it about safe mode that could allow mail to start when all of the other things are ruled out?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks!
> >>>
> >>
> >> Video driver antivirus? Best to post a crash id.
> >>
> >> FRG
> > 
> > I have active AV and I did run MalwareBytes to double-check. What does it mean to post a crash id?
> > 
> 
> It means you type about:crashes into the address bar, then copy the most 
> recent link and post it into a reply.
> 
> -- 
> OS: Ubuntu Linux 18.04LTS - Gnome Desktop
> https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/get-involved/


Gotcha. Here's one I just created:
bp-b68ef33c-85b1-476d-a74d-0fc860191031

http://crash-stats.mozilla.com/report/index/bp-b68ef33c-85b1-476d-a74d-0fc860191031

As for trying 32-bit vs. 64 bit, I haven't done that. I suppose I can give it a try.

Thanks.
0
BigBlue
10/31/2019 2:41:35 PM
That's it! Thanks for pointing me to the crash report. I had no idea that e=
xisted. The crash report indicated the failure was with rtsultramonhookx32.=
dll. That sounded familiar so I checked and it is related to multi-monitor =
software I had installed called UltraMon (which has always been a very usef=
ul tool for me, but I don't use its features as much as I used to). To chec=
k the relationship, I uninstalled it and now I can launch Mail without any =
issue. Looks like something about UltraMon became incompatible with SeaMonk=
ey Mail. I can certainly live without UltraMon for a while - more easily th=
an living without Mail. I'll report a bug to them and see if they can fix t=
hings.

Thanks a ton!!
0
BigBlue
10/31/2019 2:53:45 PM
BigBlue wrote:
> That's it! Thanks for pointing me to the crash report. I had no idea that existed. The crash report indicated the failure was with rtsultramonhookx32.dll. That sounded familiar so I checked and it is related to multi-monitor software I had installed called UltraMon (which has always been a very useful tool for me, but I don't use its features as much as I used to). To check the relationship, I uninstalled it and now I can launch Mail without any issue. Looks like something about UltraMon became incompatible with SeaMonkey Mail. I can certainly live without UltraMon for a while - more easily than living without Mail. I'll report a bug to them and see if they can fix things.
> 
> Thanks a ton!!
> 

Just searching for it shows similar reports for Firefox and other software:

https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/report/index/d49d0f06-2e09-44bb-88d5-d97bf0181227#tab-details

This needs to be fixed in ultramon.

FRG
0
Frank
10/31/2019 3:15:53 PM
budkrueger3@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 10:16:24 PM UTC-4, BigBlue wrote:
>> [Seamonkey 2.49.5 on Windows 10 (up to date)]
>>
>> Since I did a full uninstall/reinstall and did not add any themes or add-ons I know those are not the issue. So what else is it about safe mode that could allow mail to start when all of the other things are ruled out?
>>
>> Thanks!
> 
> I'm getting worried. I still have 2.49.4 and it is working fine.  These recent threads about serious problems with any version after 2.49.4 has me leery of updating to 2.49.5.  These threads tell me that you folks are obviously out of my league of expertise. Is it safe for me to go to 2.49.5?  TIA.  Bud Krueger
> 

We monitored the crash stats after release and there is nothing which stands 
out. I ran 2.49.5 for at least a year before switiching to 2.53.
One of the  problems is that recent third party antivirus release become more 
and more a virus itself. Windows 10 updates are not always stable too. Linux 
becomes more fragmented every year and macOS stability isn't that great either 
any longer. If 2.49.5 does not work for you you can always reinstall 2.49.4 again.

FRG
0
Frank
10/31/2019 3:23:01 PM
On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 10:16:02 AM UTC-5, Frank-Rainer Grahl wrot=
e:
> BigBlue wrote:
> > That's it! Thanks for pointing me to the crash report. I had no idea th=
at existed. The crash report indicated the failure was with rtsultramonhook=
x32.dll. That sounded familiar so I checked and it is related to multi-moni=
tor software I had installed called UltraMon (which has always been a very =
useful tool for me, but I don't use its features as much as I used to). To =
check the relationship, I uninstalled it and now I can launch Mail without =
any issue. Looks like something about UltraMon became incompatible with Sea=
Monkey Mail. I can certainly live without UltraMon for a while - more easil=
y than living without Mail. I'll report a bug to them and see if they can f=
ix things.
> >=20
> > Thanks a ton!!
> >=20
>=20
> Just searching for it shows similar reports for Firefox and other softwar=
e:
>=20
> https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/report/index/d49d0f06-2e09-44bb-88d5-d97b=
f0181227#tab-details
>=20
> This needs to be fixed in ultramon.
>=20
> FRG


Yep. I contacted RealTimeSoft and let them know. Not sure if they still sup=
port UltraMon. Last release was Oct 4, 2018.
0
BigBlue
10/31/2019 3:28:42 PM
On 31/10/19 14:53, BigBlue wrote:
> ... Looks like something about UltraMon became incompatible with SeaMonkey Mail. I can certainly live without UltraMon for a while - more easily than living without Mail. I'll report a bug to them and see if they can fix things.

The product site says that you need v3.4.1 x64 
<https://www.realtimesoft.com/files/UltraMon_3.4.1_en_x64.msi> if your 
W10 is 1809 or later, and W10 >= 1607 in any case. Apparently they broke 
Chrome as well.

Having said that, it had better be pretty good at $40 a time. For 
someone who hadn't already bought a licence, this 
<http://dualmonitortool.sourceforge.net/> or just the built-in W10 
multi-monitor settings, might be enough.

/df

-- 
London
UK
0
Dirk
10/31/2019 11:50:30 PM
On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 6:50:36 PM UTC-5, nor...@googlegroups.com =
wrote:
> On 31/10/19 14:53, BigBlue wrote:
> > ... Looks like something about UltraMon became incompatible with SeaMon=
key Mail. I can certainly live without UltraMon for a while - more easily t=
han living without Mail. I'll report a bug to them and see if they can fix =
things.
>=20
> The product site says that you need v3.4.1 x64=20
> <https://www.realtimesoft.com/files/UltraMon_3.4.1_en_x64.msi> if your=20
> W10 is 1809 or later, and W10 >=3D 1607 in any case. Apparently they brok=
e=20
> Chrome as well.
>=20
> Having said that, it had better be pretty good at $40 a time. For=20
> someone who hadn't already bought a licence, this=20
> <http://dualmonitortool.sourceforge.net/> or just the built-in W10=20
> multi-monitor settings, might be enough.
>=20
> /df
>=20
> --=20
> London
> UK

It wasn't $40 when I bought it. I've been using it for maybe 10 years. Not =
sure which version I had, but I do still have a 3.4.0 download so that's pr=
obably the one. I can try 3.4.1 and see if that helps. Interestingly, Ultra=
mon didn't break things though. My Seamonkey Mail worked fine for years wit=
h it. Something changed in Seamonkey and others like Mozilla and Chrome (or=
 maybe Windows itself) that broke things. Definitely up to Ultramon to reso=
lve though.

The good thing about Ultramon was the additional buttons it adds to windows=
 to allow you to instantly move them over to the other monitor without havi=
ng to drag across, plus the ability to maximize a window across both monito=
rs. And other semi-minor tweaks.
0
BigBlue
11/1/2019 1:54:36 AM
The Ultramon developer got back to me and said v3.4.1 should be fine with the latest Seamonkey and Windows 10. I did download it and try and Seamonkey Mail does start OK after that, but haven't tested extensively. Looks good. 
0
BigBlue
11/1/2019 2:06:29 AM
On 01/11/19 02:06, BigBlue wrote:
> The Ultramon developer got back to me and said v3.4.1 should be fine with the latest Seamonkey and Windows 10. I did download it and try and Seamonkey Mail does start OK after that, but haven't tested extensively. Looks good.

Great. A Windows 10 update was the breaking change, judging from the 
UltraMon release notes. Perhaps there was a bug in the way that UltraMon 
interacted with Windows, only revealed by a newer version of Windows, or 
perhaps Microsoft changed something behind the scenes.

/df

-- 
London
UK
0
Dirk
11/1/2019 11:27:40 AM
Reply: