Best Way Backing Up - Advice ?

I have put it off for a long time....."LifeLock" ads have me worried, now.

I respect the opinions of the folks on this News Group who advise us.

If you Back Up your system, which program is the Easiest and Most Reliable
when it comes to RESTORING the system - for someone NOT a computer
Professional.....like me.

I just bought a 64 GB 3.0 USB SanDisk Thumbdrive for backing up.

DoctorBill
0
DoctorBill
2/11/2020 3:39:36 PM
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One Time and not continuous: Acronis rescue disk included with Acronis True Image.

Do it now and then with it. Already needed to restore once and use it all the 
time with fixing up/upgrading laptops from friends or moving systems to an SSD.

FRG


DoctorBill wrote:
> I have put it off for a long time....."LifeLock" ads have me worried, now.
> 
> I respect the opinions of the folks on this News Group who advise us.
> 
> If you Back Up your system, which program is the Easiest and Most Reliable
> when it comes to RESTORING the system - for someone NOT a computer
> Professional.....like me.
> 
> I just bought a 64 GB 3.0 USB SanDisk Thumbdrive for backing up.
> 
> DoctorBill
0
Frank
2/11/2020 4:22:26 PM
Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:
> Acronis True Image

Sells for under $5 on E-Bay....or $40 !         ? ? ? ? ? ?

DoctorBill
0
DoctorBill
2/11/2020 4:48:08 PM
DoctorBill wrote:
> 
> If you Back Up your system, which program is the Easiest and Most Reliable
> when it comes to RESTORING the system - for someone NOT a computer
> Professional.....like me.

I backup on two levels.  I keep data out of the boot partition and 
backup data with COPY, or sometimes XCOPY such as this:

xcopy /s/y/d X:\Profiles Y:\Profiles

For boot partition backup I use DfSee.  That does a bit-for-bit clone - 
I don't care for "images".  My backups I can read and write to.

DfSee can clone a partition or complete HDD.  All my desktop machines 
have all HDDs as front panel plug-in.  And all OSs are on one HDD and 
apps and data are on another HDD.  If I loose an OS I can swap the OS 
HDD and the apps and data do not know the difference.  And if I loose an 
apps or data partition I can swap that HDD and the OSs do not know the 
difference.

The typical Win box has everything in one C partition, which in now over 
a TB in size.  It is like buying a home appliance; loose one transistor 
and you loose the entire unit.  But if you break it into pieces you can 
maintain the pieces individually.

If you are on this list it implies you are willing to try to put the 
"personal" back into PC.

Ray

0
Ray
2/11/2020 6:11:06 PM
DoctorBill wrote:
> I have put it off for a long time....."LifeLock" ads have me worried, now.
>
> I respect the opinions of the folks on this News Group who advise us.
>
> If you Back Up your system, which program is the Easiest and Most Reliable
> when it comes to RESTORING the system - for someone NOT a computer
> Professional.....like me.
>
> I just bought a 64 GB 3.0 USB SanDisk Thumbdrive for backing up.
>
> DoctorBill

It depends on what you want to back up.
64 gb won't be nearly big enough for the entire computer but may
be big enough for data backup.
It you want to back up the entire comp then get an external HDD/SSD as 
big or bigger than your comp's storage device.

I use Macrium Reflect and make clones instead of backups.
That way if a HDD, SSD, NVMe.2 drive goes back I can swap the drives
and be back up and running in 5 minutes... remember that some of us also 
use computers for work.
Do NOT buy software off of EBay unless you are absolutely positive the
deal is legit.  Get it from Microcenter, Frys, maybe New Egg, etc.

0
Paul
2/11/2020 6:21:01 PM
On 2/11/2020 7:39 AM, DoctorBill wrote:
> I have put it off for a long time....."LifeLock" ads have me worried, now.
> 
> I respect the opinions of the folks on this News Group who advise us.
> 
> If you Back Up your system, which program is the Easiest and Most Reliable
> when it comes to RESTORING the system - for someone NOT a computer
> Professional.....like me.
> 
> I just bought a 64 GB 3.0 USB SanDisk Thumbdrive for backing up.
> 
> DoctorBill
> 

See my <http://www.rossde.com/computer/computer_backup.html> for a
description of how I do system-wide backups.

-- 
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

Beyond Meat and other such vegetarian meat substitutes
represent the ultimate in ultra-processed foods.  Real
meat is natural.  Beyond Meat is definitely not.  No,
I do NOT own a cattle ranch, a butcher shop, or any
other business doing commerce in meat.
0
David
2/11/2020 6:58:39 PM
Paul in Houston, TX wrote:
> DoctorBill wrote:
>> I have put it off for a long time....."LifeLock" ads have me worried, 
>> now.
>>
>> I respect the opinions of the folks on this News Group who advise us.
>>
>> If you Back Up your system, which program is the Easiest and Most 
>> Reliable
>> when it comes to RESTORING the system - for someone NOT a computer
>> Professional.....like me.
>>
>> I just bought a 64 GB 3.0 USB SanDisk Thumbdrive for backing up.
>>
>> DoctorBill
> 
> It depends on what you want to back up.
> 64 gb won't be nearly big enough for the entire computer but may
> be big enough for data backup.
> It you want to back up the entire comp then get an external HDD/SSD as 
> big or bigger than your comp's storage device.
> 
> I use Macrium Reflect and make clones instead of backups.
> That way if a HDD, SSD, NVMe.2 drive goes back I can swap the drives
> and be back up and running in 5 minutes... remember that some of us also 
> use computers for work.
> Do NOT buy software off of EBay unless you are absolutely positive the
> deal is legit.  Get it from Microcenter, Frys, maybe New Egg, etc.
> 
I use the Macrium Reflect paid version and it clones my HHD well but 
when I clone my M.2 drives they will not boot-I have repaire the boot 
partition to no avail. When the clone is finished it say no errors and 
the look the sAME???
0
JAS
2/11/2020 7:52:47 PM
DoctorBill wrote:
> 
> If you Back Up your system, which program is the Easiest and Most Reliable
> when it comes to RESTORING the system - for someone NOT a computer
> Professional.....like me.
> 
> I just bought a 64 GB 3.0 USB SanDisk Thumbdrive for backing up.


There's lots of considerations with doing backups, and I'm convinced 
that there's no one "best" way to do backups. For an effective backup 
plan, you have to think through various recovery scenarios, and 
different tools and methodologies (and even media) are stronger in some 
areas than others.

In the context of this question, there's full image backups, full data, 
and application data. Full image is great if you need to do a complete 
restore of everything, back to the state the computer was in when you 
made your backup.  However, those take the most time to create, and 
space to store, and you definitely won't be able to do that kind of 
backup with a thumb drive. For that, you need either an external hard 
drive and/or mirroring to a cloud server. Big hard drives aren't 
especially expensive, and I have a 5 TB drive that I got for around $120 
US about 3 years ago. Full image backups are good to have if you're 
doing major upgrades to your system.

Data backups will get all your data, but not your system, so they won't 
be as useful if you have some sort of catastrophic system failure, such 
as failed hard drive, or a system upgrade that goes badly.  If you have 
all your data, you still may have to reinstall your system and 
applications from release media, and you have to re-do all your prefs.

Since this is a Seamonkey forum, I will mention the details there more 
specifically.

The good news with Mozilla apps (not just Seamonkey, but Firefox and 
Thunderbird, as well) is that it's pretty easy to back up all your user 
data.  In Windows, all it takes is copying the contents of 
%APPDATA%\Mozilla\Seamonkey to another location, whether a different 
folder on your local hard drive, or to another device. If you copy to a 
different folder, that at least protects you from accidental data 
damage, although for longer term, assumes that you're including that 
data in other backups.

What makes backups more difficult with Windows the Registry. With Mac 
and Linux, you can simply copy everything.  With Windows, it's difficult 
to back up the registry and files and then reproduce a working system. 
As a result, it's essential to use a backup tool.

Personally, I use Duplicati for daily backups of my user data (which I 
write to a LAN-attached drive, where I back up all the machines in my 
LAN.  That's a data backup and not full image, but it works for what I 
want it to do.

One catch to backing up Mozilla data is that as user data it's located 
in %APPDATA%, which is normally hidden (because it's data that's 
normally accessed only through an application, rather than directly, as 
with things like word processing docs).  Thus, if you go looking for the 
AppData folder in your user profile with the Windows Explorer, you won't 
find it, unless you explicitly specify the path 
(C:\Users\[YourName]\Roaming) or let Windows do it for you with th 
%APPDATA% environment variable.  I have found that trying to back up the 
entire user profile (including all AppData) with Duplicati often throws 
warnings about open files, and the entire of AppData isn't really 
necessary -- I only want data from two or three applications.

As for your media, I would not consider a thumb drive to be adequate as 
a backup drive.  Besides the question of size, the nature of those 
drives is dynamic enough that they're not good for long-term storage, 
especially on a device that's frequently overwritten.  A thumb drive is 
far better suited for use for "sneakernet" data transfers than 
longer-term storage.  For your needs, I strongly urge you to get a 
device that's intended for that kind of usage, namely an external hard 
drive.

Also -- one other consideration. If you're making your backups to 
rewriteable media, make sure that new backups are not overwriting (and 
destroying) older backups.  Many years ago, I had a machine that backed 
up to floppy disks (several dozen).  There was a time when I was making 
a backup when the hard drive was in the process of failing, and when I 
had problems while I was backing up, the result was that neither the new 
backup nor the old was usable.

Smith
0
NFN
2/12/2020 3:18:08 PM
NFN Smith wrote:
> DoctorBill wrote:
>>
> What makes backups more difficult with Windows the Registry. With Mac 
> and Linux, you can simply copy everything.  With Windows, it's difficult 
> to back up the registry and files and then reproduce a working system. 
> As a result, it's essential to use a backup tool.

Since Netscape, I have used copy and xcopy to backup profiles and mail - 
I have always put mail in a separate tree.

I also had Win and OS/2 use the same profile and data files.  I kept 
them on FAT32 so both Win and OS/2 could access them.

You say the Win registry is the issue.  It has never been an issue here. 
  Maybe because I have never used an exe installer.  I just unzip to a 
place and name of my choice, and create a run object/shortcut.

Try it, you might like it.

Ray

0
Ray
2/12/2020 7:01:50 PM
Ray Davison wrote:
> NFN Smith wrote:
>> DoctorBill wrote:
>>>
>> What makes backups more difficult with Windows the Registry. With Mac 
>> and Linux, you can simply copy everything.  With Windows, it's 
>> difficult to back up the registry and files and then reproduce a 
>> working system. As a result, it's essential to use a backup tool.
> 
> Since Netscape, I have used copy and xcopy to backup profiles and mail - 
> I have always put mail in a separate tree.
> 
> I also had Win and OS/2 use the same profile and data files.  I kept 
> them on FAT32 so both Win and OS/2 could access them.

That's definitely a valid approach.  So is a simple drag-and-drop copy 
of a Profile folder with the Windows Explorer.

> 
> You say the Win registry is the issue.  It has never been an issue here. 
>   Maybe because I have never used an exe installer.  I just unzip to a 
> place and name of my choice, and create a run object/shortcut.

Registry is an issue only for programming itself, if you're using an 
installer. Data doesn't matter, especially with Mozilla doing a good job 
of being platform-agnostic. For the most part, it's pretty easy to 
move/copy profiles among Windows, Linux and Mac, other than making sure 
that the path name syntax is correct in a PROFILES.INI file.

Smith




0
NFN
2/12/2020 8:48:38 PM
Ray Davison wrote on 13/02/2020 6:01 AM:
> NFN Smith wrote:
>> DoctorBill wrote:
>>>
>> What makes backups more difficult with Windows the Registry. With Mac 
>> and Linux, you can simply copy everything.  With Windows, it's 
>> difficult to back up the registry and files and then reproduce a 
>> working system. As a result, it's essential to use a backup tool.
> 
> Since Netscape, I have used copy and xcopy to backup profiles and mail - 
> I have always put mail in a separate tree.
> 
> I also had Win and OS/2 use the same profile and data files.  I kept 
> them on FAT32 so both Win and OS/2 could access them.

Similarly. I dual boot Win7 and Linux, and use the one set of profile 
and data files for my SeaMonkey Suite situated on my Win7 G:\ drive.

-- 
Daniel

Win7 User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) 
Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.49.5 Build identifier: 20190609032134

Linux User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) 
Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.49.1 Build identifier: 20171015235623
0
Daniel
2/13/2020 10:33:24 AM
Daniel wrote:
> 
> Similarly. I dual boot Win7 and Linux, and use the one set of profile and data 
> files for my SeaMonkey Suite situated on my Win7 G:\ drive.

Which is unsupported and has known problems.

FRG
0
Frank
2/13/2020 10:57:34 AM
Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote on 13/02/2020 9:57 PM:
> Daniel wrote:
>>
>> Similarly. I dual boot Win7 and Linux, and use the one set of profile 
>> and data files for my SeaMonkey Suite situated on my Win7 G:\ drive.
> 
> Which is unsupported and has known problems.
> 
> FRG

Yeap, understood, me living dangerous!! ;-P

My current problem is getting my Linux (Mageia V 6) to connect at all to 
the internet!! It used to, but when I updated to 6.1 or similar, my 
getting it to connect via my 3G USB Dongle stopped working.

Same Laptop, same dongle, same USB Port, Win 7, not a problem 
connecting!! ;-(

-- 
Daniel

Win7 User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) 
Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.49.5 Build identifier: 20190609032134

Linux User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) 
Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.49.1 Build identifier: 20171015235623
0
Daniel
2/14/2020 6:17:56 AM
On 2/14/20 1:17 AM, Daniel wrote:
> Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote on 13/02/2020 9:57 PM:
>> Daniel wrote:
>>>
>>> Similarly. I dual boot Win7 and Linux, and use the one set of profile 
>>> and data files for my SeaMonkey Suite situated on my Win7 G:\ drive.
>>
>> Which is unsupported and has known problems.
>>
>> FRG
> 
> Yeap, understood, me living dangerous!! ;-P
> 
> My current problem is getting my Linux (Mageia V 6) to connect at all to 
> the internet!! It used to, but when I updated to 6.1 or similar, my 
> getting it to connect via my 3G USB Dongle stopped working.
> 
> Same Laptop, same dongle, same USB Port, Win 7, not a problem 
> connecting!! ;-(
> 

I have to reinstall the driver for my USB-ACNano 53 Wi-Fi adapter after 
every kernel update.

Have you tried doing that?

-- 
OS: Ubuntu Linux 18.04LTS - Gnome Desktop
https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/get-involved/

0
WaltS48
2/14/2020 1:16:06 PM
Daniel wrote:
>> Since Netscape, I have used copy and xcopy to backup profiles and mail 
>> - I have always put mail in a separate tree.
>>
>> I also had Win and OS/2 use the same profile and data files.  I kept 
>> them on FAT32 so both Win and OS/2 could access them.
> 
> Similarly. I dual boot Win7 and Linux, and use the one set of profile 
> and data files for my SeaMonkey Suite situated on my Win7 G:\ drive.

Noting FRG's cautions about sharing profiles...

Even if doing this kind of thing is technically possible, I'm assuming 
that you're using POP, and in that, really pushing beyond the design 
expectations of what POP can (or even should) do.

The better approach is to use IMAP, where all your mail traffic is on a 
server, and not stored locally.  With IMAP, it doesn't matter what 
computer, what platform or what profile you're using.  All of them see 
the exactly same set of data, including folder layout, read/unread 
status, tagging, etc.  The things that don't share would be configs 
(including extensions) and personal preferences and your contacts lists, 
but those are things that you can work around (e.g., occasional of use 
the ImportExport extension to export contacts from one profile and 
import into your other profiles).

For me personally, I use a hybridized approach between POP and IMAP.  My 
primary working profile is POP, and across several accounts (including 
more than one that are no longer used), I keep all my mail archives 
dating back now close to 25 years in that profile. For the old accounts, 
this is a place where Local Folders is really useful. I consider that to 
be the master profile. For this profile, I set the retention policy to 2 
weeks, so that I don't get immediate deletion from the server.

 From there, I set up all of my other connections to use IMAP.  That 
includes a secondary Seamonkey profile on that machine, Thunderbird 
profiles on multiple machines, and even the mail client on my cell 
phone.  No matter where I'm accessing from (even providers' web 
clients), I see the exact same list of messages -- two weeks of history 
is generally enough for anything I need from a secondary access.  The 
one minor thing to account for is for any mail that I send.  Sometimes, 
I may set up a client to use the Inbox for saving copies of sent mail, 
rather than the Sent folder, but most of the time, it's easy enough to 
simply move any sent messages from the Sent folder into the Inbox. 
Then, when I download messages from my primary client, I have a copy of 
anything that I've sent, that I can subsequently put into my permanent 
archiving.

Smith
0
NFN
2/14/2020 3:55:26 PM
NFN Smith wrote:
> 
> Even if doing this kind of thing is technically possible, I'm assuming 
> that you're using POP, and in that, really pushing beyond the design 
> expectations of what POP can (or even should) do.
> 
> The better approach is to use IMAP, where all your mail traffic is on a 
> server, and not stored locally.  

My first computer input, after punch cards, was marking up a printed 
green line report, and handing it over a Dutch door and then waiting a 
few days for the updated report.  Then we got dumb terminals.  Then 
personal computers.

To me, cloud storage and computing is going back to dumb terminals.  I 
display personal things in the cloud, I don't store anything personal there.

I have one IMAP account that I am trying to get to work only because I 
am trying to get Charter to send mail when I am on the road.  I have 
been using Gmail as the outgoing server.

Ray

0
Ray
2/14/2020 6:46:46 PM
NFN Smith wrote on 15/02/2020 2:55 AM:
> Daniel wrote:
>>> Since Netscape, I have used copy and xcopy to backup profiles and 
>>> mail - I have always put mail in a separate tree.
>>>
>>> I also had Win and OS/2 use the same profile and data files.  I kept 
>>> them on FAT32 so both Win and OS/2 could access them.
>>
>> Similarly. I dual boot Win7 and Linux, and use the one set of profile 
>> and data files for my SeaMonkey Suite situated on my Win7 G:\ drive.
> 
> Noting FRG's cautions about sharing profiles...
> 
> Even if doing this kind of thing is technically possible, I'm assuming 
> that you're using POP, and in that, really pushing beyond the design 
> expectations of what POP can (or even should) do.
> 
> The better approach is to use IMAP, where all your mail traffic is on a 
> server, and not stored locally.  With IMAP, it doesn't matter what 
> computer, what platform or what profile you're using.

<Snip>

Yeap, I also have a freebie Yahoo.com account which I think is IMAP.

One day, I'll get around to downloading the saved mail from that account 
onto my hard drive! ;-P

-- 
Daniel

Win7 User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) 
Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.49.5 Build identifier: 20190609032134

Linux User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) 
Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.49.1 Build identifier: 20171015235623
0
Daniel
2/15/2020 2:25:35 AM
Reply: