new addons web page

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The new add-ons web page https://addons.mozilla.org only shows add-ons 
compatible with your version of Firefox! The previous incarnation of 
that page showed all add-ons, with a notice if add-on was not compatible 
with your version of Firefox, and giving the option to download them anyway.

Now, if there is a version history, you can still find these, but if 
there is no version history, the add-on is just not displayed in a 
search. How inconvenient!

I guess I have to keep a portable older version of Firefox on had to 
find add-ons for previous versions that I support.


--------------42473530E6A9B1456F3D2178
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<html>
  <head>

    <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <p>The new add-ons web page <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://addons.mozilla.org">https://addons.mozilla.org</a> only shows
      add-ons compatible with your version of Firefox! The previous
      incarnation of that page showed all add-ons, with a notice if
      add-on was not compatible with your version of Firefox, and giving
      the option to download them anyway.</p>
    <p>Now, if there is a version history, you can still find these, but
      if there is no version history, the add-on is just not displayed
      in a search. How inconvenient!</p>
    <p>I guess I have to keep a portable older version of Firefox on had
      to find add-ons for previous versions that I support.<br>
    </p>
  </body>
</html>

--------------42473530E6A9B1456F3D2178--
0
Gary
11/9/2017 7:45:38 AM
mozilla.support.firefox 23945 articles. 6 followers. Post Follow

54 Replies
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In article <mailman.2016.1510213544.16832.support-
firefox@lists.mozilla.org>, gary.curtin@gmail.com says...
> I guess I have to keep a portable older version of Firefox on had to 
> find add-ons for previous versions that I support.
> 
> 

Or another possibility:

While on the addons.mozilla.org website, scroll down and in the black 
area near the bottom of the screen. There is a link labeled "View 
classic desktop site". That will give you the view you previously had, 
including the ability to search for extensions that aren't compatible 
with your release. (On the search results, you may have to click on the 
"Works with >>" to pull down additional options, then click on "Any 
Firefox" to allow displaying of extensions NOT compatible with your 
release.)

What isn't known at this time is how long the "View classic desktop 
site" will be available.

What is known is that eventually Mozilla plans to delete the legacy 
extensions when Mozilla is no longer supporting any browser that accepts 
legacy extensions. Currently Firefox ESR 52 supports legacy extensions 
and it will no longer be supported near the end of June, 2018, so legacy 
extensions will be hosted on addons.mozilla.org at least until then.
0
Mark12547
11/9/2017 8:31:45 AM
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Perfect, thank you.

On 09/11/2017 10:31, Mark12547 wrote:
> scroll down and in the black
> area near the bottom of the screen. There is a link labeled "View
> classic desktop site". That will give you the view you previously had

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<html>
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    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <p>Perfect, thank you.<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 09/11/2017 10:31, Mark12547 wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:MPG.346db24f6088de3e989749@news.mozilla.org">
      <pre wrap="">scroll down and in the black 
area near the bottom of the screen. There is a link labeled "View 
classic desktop site". That will give you the view you previously had</pre>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>

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0
Gary
11/9/2017 8:35:43 AM
Please join the discussion that began a couple of weeks ago:

Test the new look of addons.mozilla.org! - Add-ons / addons.mozilla.org - Mozilla Discourse
<https://discourse.mozilla.org/t/-/20860?u=grahamperrin>

Today is a milestone <https://github.com/mozilla/addons-frontend/milestone/78> for a 'push' of fixes, for the most significant issues that were identified after the new site went live. In plain English:

-expect to see significant improvements over the next day or so.
0
Graham
11/9/2017 2:09:47 PM
Em 09-11-2017 06:31, Mark12547 escreveu:
> In article <mailman.2016.1510213544.16832.support-
> firefox@lists.mozilla.org>, gary.curtin@gmail.com says...
>> I guess I have to keep a portable older version of Firefox on had to
>> find add-ons for previous versions that I support.
>>
>>
>
> Or another possibility:
>
> While on the addons.mozilla.org website, scroll down and in the black
> area near the bottom of the screen. There is a link labeled "View
> classic desktop site". That will give you the view you previously had,
> including the ability to search for extensions that aren't compatible
> with your release. (On the search results, you may have to click on the
> "Works with >>" to pull down additional options, then click on "Any
> Firefox" to allow displaying of extensions NOT compatible with your
> release.)
>
> What isn't known at this time is how long the "View classic desktop
> site" will be available.
>
> What is known is that eventually Mozilla plans to delete the legacy
> extensions when Mozilla is no longer supporting any browser that accepts
> legacy extensions. Currently Firefox ESR 52 supports legacy extensions
> and it will no longer be supported near the end of June, 2018, so legacy
> extensions will be hosted on addons.mozilla.org at least until then.
>

Thank you for this post.

It is a shame to remove legacy addons because, if they stop working, 
they could be useful as a base for future and compatible addons.
0
Balaco
11/9/2017 2:41:23 PM
On 11/9/2017 at 2:45 AM, Gary C Curtin created this epitome of digital 
genius:
> The new add-ons web page https://addons.mozilla.org only shows add-ons 
> compatible with your version of Firefox! The previous incarnation of 
> that page showed all add-ons, with a notice if add-on was not compatible 
> with your version of Firefox, and giving the option to download them anyway.
> 
> Now, if there is a version history, you can still find these, but if 
> there is no version history, the add-on is just not displayed in a 
> search. How inconvenient!
> 
> I guess I have to keep a portable older version of Firefox on had to 
> find add-ons for previous versions that I support.
> 

Just temporarily change your User Agent string to spoof and older version.

-- 
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple of payments.
0
Ed
11/9/2017 4:01:44 PM
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That's clever. Thanks. :-)

On 09/11/2017 18:01, Ed Mullen wrote:
>> I guess I have to keep a portable older version of Firefox on had to 
>> find add-ons for previous versions that I support.
>>
>
> Just temporarily change your User Agent string to spoof and older 
> version. 

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<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <p>That's clever. Thanks. :-)<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 09/11/2017 18:01, Ed Mullen wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:Xo2dnTKc19l15pnHnZ2dnUU7-XudnZ2d@mozilla.org">
      <blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;">I guess I have to
        keep a portable older version of Firefox on had to find add-ons
        for previous versions that I support.
        <br>
        <br>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      Just temporarily change your User Agent string to spoof and older
      version.
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>

--------------3BDF1095BE4D5EE3E780F2F7--
0
Gary
11/9/2017 6:08:36 PM
Gary C Curtin wrote:

> That's clever. Thanks. :-)

Gary, do you think you could alter your Thunderbird to include the "Re:" 
in the subject line when you reply to other posts?  All of your posts 
appear to be "new" posts and don't thread properly.

Thanks.
0
Richard
11/9/2017 9:07:14 PM
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I believe that is a bug with the messages being mirrored to the 
newsgroup. In the mailing list on google groups they are incorporated 
just fine in the thread.

On 09/11/2017 23:07, Richard Alan wrote:
> Gary, do you think you could alter your Thunderbird to include the "Re:"
> in the subject line when you reply to other posts?  All of your posts
> appear to be "new" posts and don't thread properly.

--------------BE958B21671BFBB8FE4D923F
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<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <p>I believe that is a bug with the messages being mirrored to the
      newsgroup. In the mailing list on google groups they are
      incorporated just fine in the thread.<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 09/11/2017 23:07, Richard Alan
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:TqednV2_6ZIfXpnHnZ2dnUU7-budnZ2d@mozilla.org">
      <pre wrap="">Gary, do you think you could alter your Thunderbird to include the "Re:" 
in the subject line when you reply to other posts?  All of your posts 
appear to be "new" posts and don't thread properly.</pre>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>

--------------BE958B21671BFBB8FE4D923F--
0
Gary
11/9/2017 9:14:25 PM
Gary C Curtin wrote:

> I believe that is a bug with the messages being mirrored to the
> newsgroup. In the mailing list on google groups they are incorporated
> just fine in the thread.
> 
> On 09/11/2017 23:07, Richard Alan wrote:
>> Gary, do you think you could alter your Thunderbird to include the
>> "Re:"
>> in the subject line when you reply to other posts?  All of your posts
>> appear to be "new" posts and don't thread properly.

No, I don't think it is a bug. Others posting do not have this problem. 
0
Richard
11/9/2017 10:16:10 PM
Balaco wrote:
> Em 09-11-2017 06:31, Mark12547 escreveu:
>> In article <mailman.2016.1510213544.16832.support-
>> firefox@lists.mozilla.org>, gary.curtin@gmail.com says...
>>> I guess I have to keep a portable older version of Firefox on had to
>>> find add-ons for previous versions that I support.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Or another possibility:
>>
>> While on the addons.mozilla.org website, scroll down and in the black
>> area near the bottom of the screen. There is a link labeled "View
>> classic desktop site". That will give you the view you previously had,
>> including the ability to search for extensions that aren't compatible
>> with your release. (On the search results, you may have to click on the
>> "Works with >>" to pull down additional options, then click on "Any
>> Firefox" to allow displaying of extensions NOT compatible with your
>> release.)
>>
>> What isn't known at this time is how long the "View classic desktop
>> site" will be available.
>>
>> What is known is that eventually Mozilla plans to delete the legacy
>> extensions when Mozilla is no longer supporting any browser that accepts
>> legacy extensions. Currently Firefox ESR 52 supports legacy extensions
>> and it will no longer be supported near the end of June, 2018, so legacy
>> extensions will be hosted on addons.mozilla.org at least until then.
>>
> 
> Thank you for this post.
> 
> It is a shame to remove legacy addons because, if they stop working, 
> they could be useful as a base for future and compatible addons.

It is also a shame because some of them work with Pale Moon, and a 
valuable resource is vanishing.

0
EE
11/9/2017 10:21:30 PM
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If others are not having this problem, then why did you request I alter 
the subject on my replies?

On 10/11/2017 00:16, Richard Alan wrote:
> No, I don't think it is a bug. Others posting do not have this problem.

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<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">If others are not having this problem,
      then why did you request I alter the subject on my replies?</div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
    </div>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/11/2017 00:16, Richard Alan
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:II2dndTw8tY3TpnHnZ2dnUU7-YednZ2d@mozilla.org">
      <pre wrap="">No, I don't think it is a bug. Others posting do not have this problem. </pre>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>

--------------495D12D0951AD75959ACB85D--
0
Gary
11/9/2017 10:22:52 PM
Ed Mullen wrote:
> On 11/9/2017 at 2:45 AM, Gary C Curtin created this epitome of digital 
> genius:
>> The new add-ons web page https://addons.mozilla.org only shows add-ons 
>> compatible with your version of Firefox! The previous incarnation of 
>> that page showed all add-ons, with a notice if add-on was not 
>> compatible with your version of Firefox, and giving the option to 
>> download them anyway.
>>
>> Now, if there is a version history, you can still find these, but if 
>> there is no version history, the add-on is just not displayed in a 
>> search. How inconvenient!
>>
>> I guess I have to keep a portable older version of Firefox on had to 
>> find add-ons for previous versions that I support.
>>
> 
> Just temporarily change your User Agent string to spoof and older version.
> 
The SeaMonkey pages have not been changed.  I found that searching was 
easier using those, even for old Firefox add-ons.

0
EE
11/9/2017 10:23:16 PM
Gary C Curtin wrote:

> If others are not having this problem, then why did you request I alter
> the subject on my replies?
> 
> On 10/11/2017 00:16, Richard Alan wrote:
>> No, I don't think it is a bug. Others posting do not have this problem.

I meant that you are the only poster with the missing "Re: " in your 
Subject lines. Other posters do not have missing "Re: " and their posts do 
NOT appear to be "new posts" as yours alone do.

You should add it when you post. (Notice the "Re: " in this reply of mine. 
Your replies do not have it.)
0
Richard
11/10/2017 12:11:05 AM
On 09/11/2017 21:07, Richard Alan wrote:

> … do you think you could alter your Thunderbird to include the "Re:"
> in the subject line when you reply to other posts?  All of your posts
> appear to be "new" posts and don't thread properly.
> 
> Thanks.

The change of subject line does not break threading in good client software.

Richard, please, what's the client there?

No problem here with Thunderbird 52.4.0 (64-bit) on FreeBSD-CURRENT, using NNTP
0
Graham
11/10/2017 1:11:52 AM
Graham Perrin wrote:

> On 09/11/2017 21:07, Richard Alan wrote:
>> … do you think you could alter your Thunderbird to include the "Re:"
>> in the subject line when you reply to other posts?  All of your posts
>> appear to be "new" posts and don't thread properly.
>> 
>> Thanks.
> 
> The change of subject line does not break threading in good client
> software.

No, of course not. The References header is intact.

> Richard, please, what's the client there?

Pan. It's also shown in my headers and is a very good NNTP client. As I 
said, "All of your posts appear to be "new" posts" (when you sort by 
Subject and Time). Are you seeing "Re: " on any of Gary Curtin's reply 
posts?
0
Richard
11/10/2017 3:30:40 AM
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There is no mailing-list requirement to alter the subject with a prefix, 
is there? But yes, I believe that is a bug with the messages being 
mirrored to the newsgroup. In the mailing list on google groups, and in 
Thunderbird email, they are incorporated just fine in the thread without 
a modified subject.

On 10/11/2017 02:11, Richard Alan wrote:
> I meant that you are the only poster with the missing "Re: " in your
> Subject lines. Other posters do not have missing "Re: " and their posts do
> NOT appear to be "new posts" as yours alone do.
>
> You should add it when you post. (Notice the "Re: " in this reply of mine.
> Your replies do not have it.)

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <p>There is no mailing-list requirement to alter the subject with a
      prefix, is there? But yes, I believe that is a bug with the
      messages being mirrored to the newsgroup. In the mailing list on
      google groups, and in Thunderbird email, they are incorporated
      just fine in the thread without a modified subject.</p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/11/2017 02:11, Richard Alan
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:A-2dnRM3DtcEc5nHnZ2dnUU7-TednZ2d@mozilla.org">
      <pre wrap="">I meant that you are the only poster with the missing "Re: " in your 
Subject lines. Other posters do not have missing "Re: " and their posts do 
NOT appear to be "new posts" as yours alone do.

You should add it when you post. (Notice the "Re: " in this reply of mine. 
Your replies do not have it.)</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:rr2dnZcKbc39gJjHnZ2dnUU7-YmdnZ2d@mozilla.org"> </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>

--------------7B4DB7353626747689B14E59--
0
Gary
11/10/2017 8:05:36 AM
Gary C Curtin wrote:

> There is no mailing-list requirement to alter the subject with a prefix,
> is there?

A requirement?  There probably is an RFC that describes it. But your 
software should handle it by itself.

> But yes, I believe that is a bug with the messages being
> mirrored to the newsgroup. In the mailing list on google groups, and in
> Thunderbird email, they are incorporated just fine in the thread without
> a modified subject.

If this is a 'bug' with newsgroup/mailing list mirroring, why are you the 
only one affected by it? You are the *only* person posting here who has a 
missing "Re: " in his/her Subject lines (on every one of your posts). 
Think about that.
0
Richard
11/10/2017 1:30:56 PM
On 10/11/2017 15:30:56, "Richard Alan" <ralan@nospam.org> wrote:
>
>>But yes, I believe that is a bug with the messages being
>>mirrored to the newsgroup. In the mailing list on google groups, and=20
>>in
>>Thunderbird email, they are incorporated just fine in the thread=20
>>without
>>a modified subject.
>
>If this is a 'bug' with newsgroup/mailing list mirroring, why are you=20
>the
>only one affected by it? You are the *only* person posting here who has=20
>a
>missing "Re: " in his/her Subject lines (on every one of your posts).
>Think about that.
>

Please carefully read what has been written. The bug is that unmodified=20
subjects (i.e. that do not have the Re:) are not integrated into the=20
thread when mirrored to a newsgroup. Everywhere else they are fine.

0
Gary
11/10/2017 1:47:42 PM
On 11/10/2017 07:47 AM, Gary C Curtin wrote:
> On 10/11/2017 15:30:56, "Richard Alan" <ralan@nospam.org> wrote:
>>
>>> But yes, I believe that is a bug with the messages being
>>> mirrored to the newsgroup. In the mailing list on google groups, and in
>>> Thunderbird email, they are incorporated just fine in the thread without
>>> a modified subject.
>>
>> If this is a 'bug' with newsgroup/mailing list mirroring, why are you the
>> only one affected by it? You are the *only* person posting here who has a
>> missing "Re: " in his/her Subject lines (on every one of your posts).
>> Think about that.
>>
>
> Please carefully read what has been written. The bug is that unmodified
> subjects (i.e. that do not have the Re:) are not integrated into the
> thread when mirrored to a newsgroup. Everywhere else they are fine.
>

I'll have to agree with Mr. Alan.
I'm using news.mozilla.org as server.
I'm following this with SeaMonkey:
   User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:51.0) Gecko/20100101
   Firefox/51.0 SeaMonkey/2.48
   Build identifier: 20170706221455

Everything is properly threaded independent of presence of "Re:".


0
Richard
11/10/2017 2:05:12 PM
I think Richard Alan said that everything is not properly threaded=20
because of the absence of "Re:".

On 10/11/2017 16:05:12, "Richard Owlett" <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:
>I'll have to agree with Mr. Alan.
>
>Everything is properly threaded independent of presence of "Re:".
>
>

0
Gary
11/10/2017 2:21:42 PM
Gary C Curtin wrote:

> On 10/11/2017 15:30:56, "Richard Alan" <ralan@nospam.org> wrote:
>>If this is a 'bug' with newsgroup/mailing list mirroring, why are you
>>the only one affected by it? You are the *only* person posting here who
>>has a
>>missing "Re: " in his/her Subject lines (on every one of your posts).
>>Think about that.
>
> Please carefully read what has been written. The bug is that unmodified
> subjects (i.e. that do not have the Re:) are not integrated into the
> thread when mirrored to a newsgroup. Everywhere else they are fine.

Please answer these two questions:

1: As you are reading this reply of mine, is there a "Re: " at the 
beginning of the Subject line?

2: Send a reply. Is there a "Re: " in the Subject line in your Compose 
window?

Oh, one more:  Why did you switch to:  User-Agent: eM_Client/7.1.30794.0
0
Richard
11/10/2017 2:26:08 PM
On 10/11/2017 16:26:08, "Richard Alan" <ralan@nospam.org> wrote:

>Please answer these two questions:
>
>1: As you are reading this reply of mine, is there a "Re: " at the
>beginning of the Subject line?
>
Yes.

>
>2: Send a reply. Is there a "Re: " in the Subject line in your Compose
>window?
>

No.

>
>Oh, one more:  Why did you switch to:  User-Agent:=20
>eM_Client/7.1.30794.0
>
None of your business.

0
Gary
11/10/2017 2:35:38 PM
On 11/10/17 9:05 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 11/10/2017 07:47 AM, Gary C Curtin wrote:
>> On 10/11/2017 15:30:56, "Richard Alan" <ralan@nospam.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> But yes, I believe that is a bug with the messages being
>>>> mirrored to the newsgroup. In the mailing list on google groups, and in
>>>> Thunderbird email, they are incorporated just fine in the thread 
>>>> without
>>>> a modified subject.
>>>
>>> If this is a 'bug' with newsgroup/mailing list mirroring, why are you 
>>> the
>>> only one affected by it? You are the *only* person posting here who 
>>> has a
>>> missing "Re: " in his/her Subject lines (on every one of your posts).
>>> Think about that.
>>>
>>
>> Please carefully read what has been written. The bug is that unmodified
>> subjects (i.e. that do not have the Re:) are not integrated into the
>> thread when mirrored to a newsgroup. Everywhere else they are fine.
>>
> 
> I'll have to agree with Mr. Alan.
> I'm using news.mozilla.org as server.
> I'm following this with SeaMonkey:
>    User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:51.0) Gecko/20100101
>    Firefox/51.0 SeaMonkey/2.48
>    Build identifier: 20170706221455
> 
> Everything is properly threaded independent of presence of "Re:".
> 
> 

Everything is properly threaded, but all of Gary's post look as if they 
are new posts.

Your Subject line is, "Re: threading and subject lines"

The Subject line in his reply to that post is, "threading and subject 
lines", and all of his reply posts do not have "Re:" in the subject line.

-- 
Go Bills, Steelers, Pitt, Pens and Sabres!
Coexist <https://www.coexist.org/>
National Popular Vote <http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/>
Ubuntu 16.04LTS - Unity Desktop
0
WaltS48
11/10/2017 3:00:11 PM
On 11/10/17 9:35 AM, Gary C Curtin wrote:
> On 10/11/2017 16:26:08, "Richard Alan" <ralan@nospam.org> wrote:
> 
>> Please answer these two questions:
>>
>> 1: As you are reading this reply of mine, is there a "Re: " at the
>> beginning of the Subject line?
>>
> Yes.
> 
>>
>> 2: Send a reply. Is there a "Re: " in the Subject line in your Compose
>> window?
>>
> 
> No.
> 

There should be.


-- 
Go Bills, Steelers, Pitt, Pens and Sabres!
Coexist <https://www.coexist.org/>
National Popular Vote <http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/>
Ubuntu 16.04LTS - Unity Desktop
0
WaltS48
11/10/2017 3:00:51 PM
On 11/10/2017 09:00 AM, WaltS48 wrote:
> On 11/10/17 9:05 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
>> On 11/10/2017 07:47 AM, Gary C Curtin wrote:
>>> On 10/11/2017 15:30:56, "Richard Alan" <ralan@nospam.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> But yes, I believe that is a bug with the messages being
>>>>> mirrored to the newsgroup. In the mailing list on google groups,
>>>>> and in
>>>>> Thunderbird email, they are incorporated just fine in the thread
>>>>> without
>>>>> a modified subject.
>>>>
>>>> If this is a 'bug' with newsgroup/mailing list mirroring, why are
>>>> you the
>>>> only one affected by it? You are the *only* person posting here who
>>>> has a
>>>> missing "Re: " in his/her Subject lines (on every one of your posts).
>>>> Think about that.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Please carefully read what has been written. The bug is that unmodified
>>> subjects (i.e. that do not have the Re:) are not integrated into the
>>> thread when mirrored to a newsgroup. Everywhere else they are fine.
>>>
>>
>> I'll have to agree with Mr. Alan.
>> I'm using news.mozilla.org as server.
>> I'm following this with SeaMonkey:
>>    User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:51.0) Gecko/20100101
>>    Firefox/51.0 SeaMonkey/2.48
>>    Build identifier: 20170706221455
>>
>> Everything is properly threaded independent of presence of "Re:".
>>
>>
>
> Everything is properly threaded, but all of Gary's post look as if they
> are new posts.
>
> Your Subject line is, "Re: threading and subject lines"
>
> The Subject line in his reply to that post is, "threading and subject
> lines", and all of his reply posts do not have "Re:" in the subject line.
>

It wasn't clear that the visual indication of threading was there on HIS 
setup.

0
Richard
11/10/2017 3:14:26 PM
--------=_MBE3F1B2F0-A690-44E1-9CF2-E4A18ADDF297
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Just found this on gHacks:

Firefox Classic Add-ons Archive
https://www.ghacks.net/2017/11/10/firefox-classic-add-ons-archive/



>
>
>On Thursday, November 9, 2017 at 9:45:52 AM UTC+2, Gary C Curtin wrote:
>>The new add-ons web page https://addons.mozilla.org only shows add-ons=20
>>compatible with your version of Firefox! The previous incarnation of=20
>>that page showed all add-ons, with a notice if add-on was not=20
>>compatible with your version of Firefox, and giving the option to=20
>>download them anyway.
>>
>>
>>
--------=_MBE3F1B2F0-A690-44E1-9CF2-E4A18ADDF297
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<?xml version=3D"1.0" encoding=3D"utf-16"?><html><head><style id=3D"css_sty=
les" type=3D"text/css"><!--blockquote.cite { margin-left: 5px; margin-right=
: 0px; padding-left: 10px; padding-right:0px; border-left: 1px solid #ccccc=
c }
blockquote.cite2 {margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px; padding-left: 10px;=
 padding-right:0px; border-left: 1px solid #cccccc; margin-top: 3px; padding=
-top: 0px; }
a img { border: 0px; }
ol, ul { list-style-position: inside }=20
body { font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 12pt;   }--></style></head><body><di=
v>Just found this on gHacks:</div><div><br /></div><div>Firefox Classic Add=
-ons Archive</div><div><a href=3D"https://www.ghacks.net/2017/11/10/firefox=
-classic-add-ons-archive/">https://www.ghacks.net/2017/11/10/firefox-classi=
c-add-ons-archive/</a></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></div><div><br /></=
div><div id=3D"x8d578f91d1764c2"><blockquote cite=3D"5657eb3b-3cc6-4277-a95=
3-0fd76867d85b@googlegroups.com" type=3D"cite" class=3D"cite2"><div dir=3D"=
ltr"><br /><br />On Thursday, November 9, 2017 at 9:45:52 AM UTC+2, Gary C=
 Curtin wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-le=
ft: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">
 =20

   =20
 =20
  <div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">
    <p>The new add-ons web page <a href=3D"https://addons.mozilla.org" rel=
=3D"nofollow">https://addons.mozilla.org</a> only shows
      add-ons compatible with your version of Firefox! The previous
      incarnation of that page showed all add-ons, with a notice if
      add-on was not compatible with your version of Firefox, and giving
      the option to download them anyway.</p>
    <p><br /></p>
  </div>

</blockquote></div></blockquote></div>
</body></html>
--------=_MBE3F1B2F0-A690-44E1-9CF2-E4A18ADDF297--

0
Gary
11/10/2017 4:22:39 PM
EE wrote:
>> Thank you for this post.
>>
>> It is a shame to remove legacy addons because, if they stop working, 
>> they could be useful as a base for future and compatible addons.
> 
> It is also a shame because some of them work with Pale Moon, and a 
> valuable resource is vanishing.


Seamonkey, also. And some Firefox extensions are also shared with 
Thunderbird.

Plus, of course, the ESR branch, which still has several remaining 52.x 
releases.  I haven't yet tried to look at how the AMO page handles 
interaction with an ESR implementation.

Reading notes from the Seamonkey developers meetings, I know that 
they're working on finding different hosting, separate from AMO, and I 
believe there's some amount of coordination happening in this area, 
between Seamonkey and Thunderbird devs.

Smith
0
NFN
11/10/2017 5:16:00 PM
Gary C Curtin wrote:

> "Richard Alan" <ralan@nospam.org> wrote:
>>Please answer these two questions:
>>
>>1: As you are reading this reply of mine, is there a "Re: " at the
>>beginning of the Subject line?
>
> Yes.

This is as it should be.

>>2: Send a reply. Is there a "Re: " in the Subject line in your Compose
>>window?
>
> No.

This is NOT as it should be, and is contrary to standards.

>>Oh, one more:  Why did you switch to:  User-Agent: eM_Client/7.1.30794.0
>>
> None of your business.

So then, you have TWO email clients that, in your setup, break the rules. 
Maybe you want to investigate your ISP or whatever you use to send...

I will leave you to solve your local problem.
0
Richard
11/10/2017 5:25:20 PM
WaltS48 wrote:

> Everything is properly threaded, but all of Gary's post look as if they
> are new posts.

That is exactly right. It's especially annoying when one has their 
newsreader set to "Hide Read Messages" and "Sort by Subject" which is a 
very common way of reading with a real newsreader.
0
Richard
11/10/2017 5:29:27 PM
Actually Richard, I don't have a problem. My posts are appearing=20
properly integrated in the threads in my email clients and verified on=20
the message archive in Google Groups.


On 10/11/2017 19:25:20, "Richard Alan" <ralan@nospam.org> wrote:

>I will leave you to solve your local problem.
>_______________________________________________
>support-thunderbird mailing list
>support-thunderbird@lists.mozilla.org
>https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-thunderbird
>To unsubscribe, send an email to=20
>support-thunderbird-request@lists.mozilla.org?subject=3Dunsubscribe

0
Gary
11/10/2017 5:46:54 PM
I finally sat down and did some research on threading. There are=20
different algorithms used by applications to determine the thread=20
members and their order. I would still like to know what Thunderbird=20
uses if anyone knows.

But basically there are three fields in the message header that are of=20
importance: "Subject:", "Message-Id:" and "References:". "In-Reply-To:"=20
is not usually considered because it can contain any type of text.

For "Subject:", the algorithms first determine if it has a Re: prefix,=20
and if it does - strips it. Re: plays no part in determining the thread=20
in all algorithm examples I looked at. Threads can also have members=20
with different subjects.

"References:" in the mail header is most important and contains the=20
email's parent, grandparent, great-grandparent etc. The first value in=20
the list is the first email in the same thread. The last value in the=20
list is the parent.

On 10/11/2017 16:05:12, "Richard Owlett" <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:

>
>Everything is properly threaded independent of presence of "Re:".

0
Gary
11/10/2017 7:56:25 PM
I think you do have a problem, Gary -- as others have explained, your reply emails do not have 'Re:' before the subject, so that every reply looks like a new email, even though it is threaded as a reply.  Maybe not a big issue, but annoying to the rest of us who are used to the distinction between new and reply emails.  I've got no idea what might cause it, but it has to be something at your end -- it would be helpful to everybody else if you were to research it and find a solution.

Lindsay Graham
Canberra, Australia

On 11/11/17 04:46, Gary C Curtin wrote:
> Actually Richard, I don't have a problem. My posts are appearing
> properly integrated in the threads in my email clients and verified on
> the message archive in Google Groups.
>
>
> On 10/11/2017 19:25:20, "Richard Alan" <ralan@nospam.org> wrote:
>
>> I will leave you to solve your local problem.
>>

0
Lindsay
11/12/2017 11:49:46 AM
Lindsay Graham wrote:
> I think you do have a problem, Gary

#YouToo , by not adhering to the Usenet convention of replying
*below* the quote, nor to the Usenet line width convention.

-p

0
PietB
11/12/2017 5:25:39 PM
Lindsay, modifying the subject by adding a Re: prefix is not a=20
requirement for replies to this mailing-list. Nor does it interfere with=20
inclusion in a thread. Please stop insisting that there is some problem=20
causing this. There is NO PROBLEM.


>Lindsay Graham wrote:
>>I think you do have a problem, Gary
>
>_______________________________________________
>support-thunderbird mailing list
>support-thunderbird@lists.mozilla.org
>https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-thunderbird

0
Gary
11/12/2017 5:47:21 PM
On 11/12/17 12:47 PM, Gary C Curtin wrote:
> Lindsay, modifying the subject by adding a Re: prefix is not a 
> requirement for replies to this mailing-list. Nor does it interfere with 
> inclusion in a thread. Please stop insisting that there is some problem 
> causing this. There is NO PROBLEM.

You don't have to add it. It should be automatic when you select Reply 
List, or as we newsgroup users do, use Followup in Thunderbird.

It appears your eM_Client/7.1.30794.0 has a problem.

> 
> 
>> Lindsay Graham wrote:
>>> I think you do have a problem, Gary
>>




-- 
Go Bills, Steelers, Pitt, Pens and Sabres!
Coexist <https://www.coexist.org/>
National Popular Vote <http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/>
Ubuntu 16.04LTS - Unity Desktop
0
WaltS48
11/12/2017 5:59:11 PM
Piet, I think Chris already discussed both USENET and requirement for=20
top/bottom posting in his post under the subject of "Havoc Avoidance".



On 12/11/2017 19:25:39, "PietB" <www.godfatherof.nl/@opt-in.invalid>=20
wrote:

>
>#YouToo , by not adhering to the Usenet convention of replying
>*below* the quote, nor to the Usenet line width convention.
>
>-p
>
>_______________________________________________
>support-thunderbird mailing list
>support-thunderbird@lists.mozilla.org
>https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-thunderbird

0
Gary
11/12/2017 6:02:56 PM
It is NOT a problem, and I don't usually reply to this mailing-list from=20
eM Client. I just happen to be using it to do so this weekend. Usually I=20
reply from Thunderbird, but in both clients I have replies using ONLY=20
the original subject without any prefix.

I hope that anybody receiving these messages will finally understand=20
that there is NO PROBLEM with any of the clients I use. The choice to=20
use only the original subject is a personal one, NOT a defect in any=20
email client.

Again, there is NOTHING wrong with either of the email clients I have=20
used to reply to this thread. I am not sure who first decided it was,=20
but again, there is NO problem with the email clients I am using.

If you need further clarification, you can contact me directly.

On 12/11/2017 19:59:11, "WaltS48" <thalionusa@removeaol.com> wrote:

>
>You don't have to add it. It should be automatic when you select Reply=20
>List, or as we newsgroup users do, use Followup in Thunderbird.
>
>It appears your eM_Client/7.1.30794.0 has a problem.
>_______________________________________________
>support-thunderbird mailing list
>support-thunderbird@lists.mozilla.org
>https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-thunderbird

0
Gary
11/12/2017 6:20:26 PM
On 11/12/17 1:20 PM, Gary C Curtin wrote:
> It is NOT a problem, and I don't usually reply to this mailing-list from 
> eM Client. I just happen to be using it to do so this weekend. Usually I 
> reply from Thunderbird, but in both clients I have replies using ONLY 
> the original subject without any prefix.
> 
> I hope that anybody receiving these messages will finally understand 
> that there is NO PROBLEM with any of the clients I use. The choice to 
> use only the original subject is a personal one, NOT a defect in any 
> email client.
> 
> Again, there is NOTHING wrong with either of the email clients I have 
> used to reply to this thread. I am not sure who first decided it was, 
> but again, there is NO problem with the email clients I am using.
> 
> If you need further clarification, you can contact me directly.

Okay so the problem lies somewhere else.

Yours are the only posts I see as replies without the Re: in my 
Thunderbird Release, Beta and Nightly on my Linux and Windows computers.

I have solved the problem on my end by filtering the annoying posts to 
trash.

-- 
Go Bills, Steelers, Pitt, Pens and Sabres!
Coexist <https://www.coexist.org/>
National Popular Vote <http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/>
Ubuntu 16.04LTS - Unity Desktop
0
WaltS48
11/12/2017 6:30:46 PM
Gary C Curtin wrote:

> Lindsay, modifying the subject by adding a Re: prefix is not a
> requirement for replies to this mailing-list.

Doesn't it make you feel strange, though, knowing you are the *only* 
person posting here who does NOT include a "Re: " in his replies?

> Nor does it interfere with inclusion in a thread.

No one has said it did.

> Please stop insisting that there is some problem
> causing this. There is NO PROBLEM.

If I was the only person not conforming to an accepted common courtesy, I 
would want to know why, and fix it.
 
>>Lindsay Graham wrote:
>>>I think you do have a problem, Gary
0
Richard
11/12/2017 6:33:46 PM
My only issue with this mailing list, is half of the time the reply for some=
one is sometimes after the original person=E2=80=98s message and sometimes t=
he reply is before I wish it could be the same for everybody instead of some=
body=E2=80=99s being at the end of the post and other persons at the beginni=
ng of the post.

Sent from my iPhone

>> On Nov 12, 2017, at 1:30 PM, WaltS48 <thalionusa@REMOVEaol.com> wrote:
>>=20
>> On 11/12/17 1:20 PM, Gary C Curtin wrote:
>> It is NOT a problem, and I don't usually reply to this mailing-list from e=
M Client. I just happen to be using it to do so this weekend. Usually I repl=
y from Thunderbird, but in both clients I have replies using ONLY the origin=
al subject without any prefix.
>> I hope that anybody receiving these messages will finally understand that=
 there is NO PROBLEM with any of the clients I use. The choice to use only t=
he original subject is a personal one, NOT a defect in any email client.
>> Again, there is NOTHING wrong with either of the email clients I have use=
d to reply to this thread. I am not sure who first decided it was, but again=
, there is NO problem with the email clients I am using.
>> If you need further clarification, you can contact me directly.
>=20
> Okay so the problem lies somewhere else.
>=20
> Yours are the only posts I see as replies without the Re: in my Thunderbir=
d Release, Beta and Nightly on my Linux and Windows computers.
>=20
> I have solved the problem on my end by filtering the annoying posts to tra=
sh.
>=20
> --=20
> Go Bills, Steelers, Pitt, Pens and Sabres!
> Coexist <https://www.coexist.org/>
> National Popular Vote <http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/>
> Ubuntu 16.04LTS - Unity Desktop
> _______________________________________________
> support-thunderbird mailing list
> support-thunderbird@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-thunderbird
> To unsubscribe, send an email to support-thunderbird-request@lists.mozilla=
..org?subject=3Dunsubscribe
0
Simon
11/12/2017 6:41:28 PM
And therein lies one of the biggest problems of all time! When something=20
different comes along, the automatic reaction is to try and "fix" it=20
regardless.


On 12/11/2017 20:33:46, "Richard Alan" <ralan@nospam.org> wrote:

>If I was the only person not conforming to an accepted common courtesy,=20
>I
>would want to know why, and fix it.
>
>_______________________________________________
>support-thunderbird mailing list
>support-thunderbird@lists.mozilla.org
>https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-thunderbird
>

0
Gary
11/12/2017 6:51:24 PM
On 11/12/17 1:51 PM, Gary C Curtin wrote:
> And therein lies one of the biggest problems of all time! When something
> different comes along, the automatic reaction is to try and "fix" it
> regardless.
> 

Yup. Never try to fit in.

-- 
Caver1
0
Caver1
11/12/2017 7:05:54 PM
On 2017-11-12 1:20 PM, Gary C Curtin wrote:
> It is NOT a problem, and I don't usually reply to this mailing-list from 
> eM Client. I just happen to be using it to do so this weekend. Usually I 
> reply from Thunderbird, but in both clients I have replies using ONLY 
> the original subject without any prefix.
> 
> I hope that anybody receiving these messages will finally understand 
> that there is NO PROBLEM with any of the clients I use. The choice to 
> use only the original subject is a personal one, NOT a defect in any 
> email client.
> 
> Again, there is NOTHING wrong with either of the email clients I have 
> used to reply to this thread. I am not sure who first decided it was, 
> but again, there is NO problem with the email clients I am using.
> 
> If you need further clarification, you can contact me directly.

Gary,
When you use Thunderbird, does it not add the "Re:"?
If it doesn't, did you intentionally set it that way?

-- 
Chris Ilias <http://ilias.ca>
Mailing list/Newsgroup moderator
0
Chris
11/12/2017 8:14:48 PM
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------F2A788FC2DAD824758A7D416
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On 12/11/2017 20:14, Chris Ilias wrote:
>
> Gary,
> When you use Thunderbird, does it not add the "Re:"?
> If it doesn't, did you intentionally set it that way?
>


I think he is using:

User-Agent: eM_Client/7.1.30794.0

I know nothing about this particular eMail client.




-- 
With over 500 million devices now running Windows 10, customer 
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

--------------F2A788FC2DAD824758A7D416
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FCFBE3">
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/11/2017 20:14, Chris Ilias wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:mailman.2136.1510517721.16832.support-thunderbird@lists.mozilla.org"><br>
      Gary,
      <br>
      When you use Thunderbird, does it not add the "Re:"?
      <br>
      If it doesn't, did you intentionally set it that way?
      <br>
      <br>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <br>
    I think he is using:  <br>
    <br>
    User-Agent: eM_Client/7.1.30794.0<br>
    <br>
    I know nothing about this particular eMail client.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
      <div style="width: 330px; background-color: blue; color:
        yellow;font-weight: bolder; font-size:150%; text-align: center;
        margin: 30px 5px 30px 5px;">With over 500 million devices now
        running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is higher than any
        previous version of windows.</div>
    </div>
  </body>
</html>

--------------F2A788FC2DAD824758A7D416--
0
Good
11/12/2017 8:31:53 PM
On 11/12/2017 12:41 PM, Simon Wong wrote:
> My only issue with this mailing list, is half of the time the reply for=
 someone is sometimes after the original person=E2=80=98s message and som=
etimes the reply is before I wish it could be the same for everybody inst=
ead of somebody=E2=80=99s being at the end of the post and other persons =
at the beginning of the post.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>

*ROFL*
!*CAVEAT LECTOR*!
The following example is EXTREMELY contrived ;/


u b warnd

Assumed topic of group is "History of Everything".
Assume legit topics cover everything from
   "first 10 minutes after 'BIG BANG'
thru
   "Trump's term as POTUS"

Would it not be reasonable to assume that a post discussing Donald's=20
latest "tweet" might have occurred before before a discovery about Marco =

Polo's detailed itinerary.

I.E. occurrence and revelation of events are temporally independent=20
variables.

I.E. [logical  relation of posts] <>
      [temporal relation of posts]

Did I not this be "contrived" ;/



0
Richard
11/12/2017 8:40:53 PM
Richard Alan wrote:
> Gary C Curtin wrote:
>> Lindsay, modifying the subject by adding a Re: prefix is not a
>> requirement for replies to this mailing-list.
> 
> Doesn't it make you feel strange, though, knowing you are the *only* 
> person posting here who does NOT include a "Re: " in his replies?

People are free to behave like a fool, consider whatever they use
to be perfect, and blindfoldedly ignore standards, conventions and
well-meant advices.
Fortunately Usenet and e-mail software have an excellent mechanism
to counter such types: the killfile or garbage filter.

-p

0
PietB
11/12/2017 8:52:58 PM
Simon Wong wrote:
> My only issue with this mailing list, is half of the time the reply for someone
> is sometimes after the original person‘s message and sometimes the reply is before
> I wish it could be the same for everybody instead of somebody’s being at the end
> of the post and other persons at the beginning of the post.

Some consider this a mailing list, because they receive the postings
via e-mail and read them with an mail client.
Others consider this a newsgroup, because they read the postings as
news articles and read them with a news client.
Personally, if it weren't a newsgroup, I wouldn't be following it,
because I don't want all these discussions to clog my mailbox.

Replying below a quote has been Usenet convention since day 1.
Replying below a quote has also been e-mail convention since day 1,
until Micro$oft decided to change it to "reply above quote" and at
the same time introduced its own way of address separation, which
didn't and doesn't conform to Internet standards.

-p

0
PietB
11/12/2017 9:03:40 PM
Hi PietB,
As per <https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/forums/cancellation/>, I'm 
removing your post from the news server, because it contains a personal 
attack.


-- 
Chris Ilias <http://ilias.ca>
Mailing list/Newsgroup moderator
0
Chris
11/12/2017 9:31:49 PM
On 11/10/2017 05:46 PM, Gary C Curtin wrote:
> Actually Richard, I don't have a problem. My posts are appearing 
> properly integrated in the threads in my email clients and verified on 
> the message archive in Google Groups.
> 
> 
> On 10/11/2017 19:25:20, "Richard Alan" <ralan@nospam.org> wrote:
> 
>> I will leave you to solve your local problem.

By your leave gentlemen,

excuse the TL;DR, it seems necessary in a transactional format where the 
issue is complex and context matters, plus editing is work and I'm 
thinking it out as I type...(no one's making you read this)

I came to these threads while searching on a similar topic which 
concerns the references listed in newsgroup article headers and how 
Thunderbird handles them (of no relevance here). But it's got me reading 
/this/ thread with curious interest.

For context, my interaction here is rooted in the newsgroup interface to 
the "support-thunderbird" mail list. I have it configured here in TB on 
my end. I think the source of this message you now read will evidence 
it. I haven't proofread this, flubs may exist.

Ok,

The two or three messages up-thread from here (in my view) are 
illustrative of a difference in the reference chains, and I don't know 
where it comes from (maybe from interaction via email list vs. newsgroup?).

This message /should/ reference Gary's reply in the headers, that 
message had this ID:

Message-ID: 
<mailman.2177.1510336021.16833.support-thunderbird@lists.mozilla.org>

If you call up /that/ message (Gary's response I've quoted at the top 
here), you see that /it/ references as its parent:

<97WdnUW4oIKdfJjHnZ2dnUU7-N2dnZ2d@mozilla.org>

and its grandparent was listed as:

<mailman.2080.1510324546.16832.support-thunderbird@lists.mozilla.org>

Now regarding the parent ID, by context you can see Gary was clearly 
responding immediately to Richard Alan (also evident by my quoting at 
the top). Gary's response appeared partially-threaded in my client, 
which listed it as a child of the grandparent ID, rather than the parent 
ID. And when I clicked on these references in my client, it could not 
find the parent message, but /could/ find and display the grandparent. 
Also, this explains the partially-threaded appearance, as child of the 
grandparent, appearing not as a reply to the "true" parent as listed in 
context, but as a "new" topic immediately below.

So, by context I've discovered that /my/ view from the newsgroup-side 
shows Richard's message ID as:

<mailman.2175.1510334752.16833.support-thunderbird@lists.mozilla.org>

While Gary's view from (I don't know where) his client's perspective 
shows the same message with the ID instead as:

<97WdnUW4oIKdfJjHnZ2dnUU7-N2dnZ2d@mozilla.org>

Therefore, in my view from the newsgroup interface, no such article with 
that ID ever streamed in, and so Gary's reference to it is lost on mine 
and the threading partly breaks. Yet, if his software would've cited the 
"mailman.2175..." reference instead, everything would look fine to me.

So the question is: is the alternate reference "97WdnU...@mozilla.org" 
valid and if so in what context (which would then be non-universal)? Or, 
is his client somehow making a mistake with the reference tracking?

I suspect this may be a side-effect of interacting with the "forum" via 
the email list interface vs. via the newsgroup interface. I've 
subscribed to this list via the traditional email list just now to 
attempt to check this, if the messages I get via email print with a form 
of ID akin to the "<UUID>@mozilla.org" form Gary's replies have cited, 
or one of the "mailmain<ID>.support-thunderbird@lists.mozilla.org" I've 
been seeing all along here on the newsgroup-side.

I must wait for new content (including a copy of this post) to stream in 
via email to check this, but I can say at least for the moment that my 
interaction with the list-robot via email have shown its responses all 
carrying message ID of the same form as I see on the newsgroup side...

Technically speaking, Gary is right about the subject line

https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2822.txt
RFC2822 section 3.6.5 states:
> When used in a reply, the field body MAY start with the string "Re: "
> (from the Latin "res", in the matter of) followed by the contents of
> the "Subject:" field body of the original message. If this is done,
> only one instance of the literal string "Re: " ought to be used since
> use of other strings or more than one instance can lead to
> undesirable consequences.
However, it is customary to prefix a reply with "Re: <original subj>" 
and most software will do this by default unless configured not to. 
However, at least for my Thunderbird, I find no obviously accessible 
preference setting or config-editor parameter to prevent it prefilling 
the subject line according to this customary practice

Well behaved software /should/ track the explicitly listed references 
when building thread representations. And Thunderbird does. You can edit 
the subject line in any way desired and T-bird will follow the 
references when building the thread (a great boon when a lengthy thread 
shifts its main topic of conversation, and someone decides to make it 
explicit by editing the subject line in a follow-up reply; the ancestor 
messages leading up to the topic change are properly threaded--to break 
the threading, a message which in context could be seen to be follow-up 
from prior discussion, must be composed not as a reply/followup, but as 
a new message (perhaps with manually inserted quote material)).

SO, why doesn't Gary's software follow this "Re:" prefix custom? He 
/was/ using a version of Thunderbird in the recent past during 
point-outs to this apparent threading problem.

My guess is that he may have it set-up explicitly to disregard that 
custom (and I would like to know the config-editor parameter to add/set 
in that case...I find one for forwards, but not replies). Or, perhaps 
there is something else unique about his setup which, while the headers 
his client creates are syntactically correct (properly formatted 
references list, In-reply-to, etc.) the client couldn't follow its own 
reference it listed for its parent to the reply being composed, so the 
client's logic then default to filling the subject line w/o the "Re:" 
prefix.

That's a wild-hair, but it's the best guess I've got for the moment. 
Looking at the source, clearly Gary's client seems to understand 
Richard's message to which he composed a response as originating under a 
/different/ ID than is visible to me (and others? check...) for that 
same message under the newsgroup.

It's this inability to touch all the ancestors listed in the reference 
chain once he contributes followup that leads to the threading breakage, 
not the subject line formatting.

Gary maintains everything looks find on his end, so perhaps from his 
client, he /can/ touch all the referenced message his client cites when 
he sends followup. Gary, if you're still watching this thread, follow up 
to this message as you see it, and in that followup, cite the Message-ID 
from the source of this message as your client got it. We'll compare 
from our respective ends, and this should highlight the breakage (though 
we may not learn anything new I've not already laid out here).

In normal message-view on Thunderbird. When hovering over the References 
listed in the header, they are rendered as hyperlinks. If clicked, the 
reference is followed from your local store and that message is 
presented in place of the one you were reading. When I attempt to follow 
the ref's from a contribution from Gary that include one of the 
<UUID>@mozilla.org form, they are not found. The others of the 
.....support-thunderbird@lists.mozilla.org form ARE found.

If I right-click these reference ID links, an option to "Open Browser 
with Message-ID" appears. If I do this, I'm dropped on the google groups 
web interface under a unique query for the same ID string (wow, amazing, 
how did it know to do that?). The original post containing the message 
within its thread will show as the sole result if the message was found. 
This works for the ...@lists.mozilla.org IDs, but not for the 
<UUID>@mozilla.org IDs.

I observe that these <UUID>@mozilla.org message IDs /seem/ to originate 
as the parent references of followup contributions Gary's made, /both/ 
under his TB and eM_Client user-agents. The question is, is this due to 
difference of list interface (email/newsgroup/google-group web) or some 
other local circumstance unique to Gary?

I don't fully know about the list's backend architecture, but the google 
group web interface seems to be just a window on the native newsgroup 
interface, provided by mozilla via giganews.

My window on Google groups' threaded presentation shows it only 
presenting threads as nested one level deep max, even if a chain of 
followup resulted in a deeply nested branch. Google likes flat lists. 
This /may/ explain Gary's comments insisting that things look normal on 
his end w/googlegroups too...it may simply be down to GG's simplified 
representation of threads. I suspect there's a chance that if Gary 
replied to a top-level original post, if his clients somehow are getting 
alternate reference IDs, his response would show as a NEW TOPIC in 
googlegroups. But, if the followup occurs deeper, the ref chain to the 
O-P will survive as it's just copied across by the client, and so the 
post will stay under the OP topic in GG, but loose the threading from 
its immediate parent.

So, it could nevertheless be a local phenomenon, its effect masked 
somehow for Gary himself. But if so, he's /not the only one/ with an 
issue. Down-thread, Simon Wong's followup did it too, his message:

Message-ID: 
<mailman.2229.1510512122.16833.support-thunderbird@lists.mozilla.org>

references its immediate parent as

<P8Odna0VB6nLDpXHnZ2d nUU7-cudnZ 2d@mozilla.org>

(which thunderbird doesn't even convert correctly in the reading-view 
listing of references--the naked spaces confuse its parsing, making it 
think there were three independent refs instead)

but by context, examining the material he quoted in is followup, the 
true parent (from the perspective of the newsgroup interface) was:

Message-ID: 
<mailman.2134.1510511479.16832.support-thunderbird@lists.mozilla.org>

Ooh, found another. Lindsey Graham too, his message just-down-thread:

Message-ID: 
<mailman.2122.1510487420.16832.support-thunderbird@lists.mozilla.org>

refers to parent ID:

<ema2be7661-73ac-4cf0-a57f-ad47bde0072e@desktop-ikb2vf4>

but in context (at least for news viewers) the true parent ID is the 
same ID as Gary's reply which *I'm referencing* in this post:

Message-ID: 
<mailman.2177.1510336021.16833.support-thunderbird@lists.mozilla.org>

So for me in news, the parent and grandparent ref IDs cannot be 
followed, so thunderbird for me threads Lindsey's reply as a child of 
the OP, rather than deeper (looks like it should be 13 levels deep). 
Because of all this breakage, I see the max depth as only 3 levels at 
this point in the flow. The OP ref ID points to a different list 
entirely (support-firefox), which may thread in a sensible way to an 
email user subscribed to both lists and directing them to a common 
folder, but doesn't make sense here in the news view (you'd need a 
cross-group post somewhere which anchors the thread in each group). My 
brain hurts...

Some clues for me should come when I compare my interactions here in the 
news-side from the activity which will stream in parallel from the email 
side of the list. My hunch is that this /is/ a email vs. news interface 
view problem. Everyone using email will get a consistent threading with 
no broken refs, people using news will get consistent threading from 
other news contributors, but refs will fail from people who e-mailed in, 
breaking the view for readers on news (and GG doesn't matter so much, as 
their thread view is dumbed down).

Maybe...my working theory is that news readers will not see the same 
thread structure as email participants, and it's a side effect of the 
backend architecture marrying traditional newsgroup and email list 
paradigms. Maybe others looking at the list are seeing a threading that 
"seems" like its working because their clients are defaulting to 
algorithmic interpretation of the subject line prefix "Re:" when the ref 
ID chain gets broken somewhere along their view. These clients just 
shove the "Re:" followup somewhere (maybe chrono) under the OP and call 
it good!

*whew*....interesting esoterica, anyway sorry and good day people

-Andrew


-- 
OpenPGP 0x6c976bb3 (http://keys.gnupg.net:11371)
0
Andrew
11/16/2017 12:59:30 PM
On 11/16/2017 12:59 PM, Andrew Skretvedt wrote:
> By your leave gentlemen,

*Okay I think it's confirmed.*

My response has shown in both the news and email views (since I'm now 
subscribed to the traditional email list too for a check).

I write this from the news-side. Here my post's message ID (which is 
cited in the reference chains used to build threads, no matter your 
interface to the list) was:

Message-ID: 
<mailman.2411.1510837213.16833.support-thunderbird@lists.mozilla.org>

But in the copy repeated to me via email, it is:

Message-ID: <XcWdnR83mLEvFpDHnZ2dnUU7-Y_NnZ2d@mozilla.org>


So, depending on how you see my response, via email or NNTP, your client 
will cite a different message ID as the parent to which it will become a 
child. One will be valid in the email-view context, the other will be 
valid in the NNTP-view context. If you got me via email and respond, 
your response will not thread-up correctly for NNTP viewers. They will 
still see all the messages, but they won't be able to follow the 
alternate ref ID, and threading will break (at least) one level right 
there, becoming anchored maybe to the first reference that could be 
followed in their context.

This first follow-up is sent via NNTP. I will send a reply to my same 
message above via reply to the e-mailed copy, next.

-Andrew.

-- 
OpenPGP 0x6c976bb3 (http://keys.gnupg.net:11371)
0
Andrew
11/16/2017 1:15:39 PM
On 11/16/2017 12:59 PM, Andrew Skretvedt wrote:
> By your leave gentlemen,
*Okay I think it's confirmed.*

My response has shown in both the news and email views (since I'm now 
subscribed to the traditional email list too for a check).

I write this from the email-side. Here my post's message ID (which is 
cited in the reference chains used to build threads, no matter your 
interface to the list):

Message-ID: <XcWdnR83mLEvFpDHnZ2dnUU7-Y_NnZ2d@mozilla.org>

But in the copy repeated to me via NNTP, it is:

Message-ID: 
<mailman.2411.1510837213.16833.support-thunderbird@lists.mozilla.org>

So, depending on how you see my response, via email or NNTP, your client 
will cite a different message ID as the parent to which it will become a 
child. One will be valid in the email-view context, the other will be 
valid in the NNTP-view context. If you got me via email and respond, 
your response will not thread-up correctly for NNTP viewers. They will 
still see all the messages, but they won't be able to follow the 
alternate ref ID, and threading will break (at least) one level right 
there, becoming anchored maybe to the first reference that could be 
followed in their context.

This second follow-up is sent via email (Reply List). Thunderbird 
automatically created a Newsgroup: address line prefilled with 
"mozilla.support.thunderbird" when I hit reply list, perhaps because I'm 
subscribed to the same newsgroup on the same client. I left it alone and 
my first send attempt reported a warning that my account (Gmail SMTP) 
only supports email recipients (yes, of course) and newsgroups would be 
ignored. I acknowledge that here and send it now with that understanding 
(still not deleting the newsgroup line).

-Andrew.
0
Andrew
11/16/2017 1:23:36 PM
On 11/16/2017 01:15 PM, Andrew Skretvedt wrote:
> This first follow-up is sent via NNTP. I will send a reply to my same 
> message above via reply to the e-mailed copy, next.

Which the listserv has notified me just now is in the penalty-box 
awaiting moderator approval. This comes from NNTP.

(okay...I think I've done enough to explore this space)

-- 
OpenPGP 0x6c976bb3 (http://keys.gnupg.net:11371)
0
Andrew
11/16/2017 1:26:44 PM
On Thu, 16 Nov 2017 13:15:39 +0000, Andrew Skretvedt wrote:

> So, depending on how you see my response, via email or NNTP ...

FWIW, if you reply via email I won't see your reply at all. That's 
because I normally have my newsreader, PAN, set to display threads with 
not orphan sub-threads. I can switch views, but unless I'm very 
interested in a thread, I usually don't bother.

So if you want to maximise the chances of your replies being read, reply 
using NNTP - even if you read via email.
-- 
(Remove any numerics from my email address.)
0
Dave
11/16/2017 4:58:00 PM
On 2017-11-16 11:58 AM, Dave Royal wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Nov 2017 13:15:39 +0000, Andrew Skretvedt wrote:
> 
>> So, depending on how you see my response, via email or NNTP ...
> 
> FWIW, if you reply via email I won't see your reply at all. That's
> because I normally have my newsreader, PAN, set to display threads with
> not orphan sub-threads. I can switch views, but unless I'm very
> interested in a thread, I usually don't bother.
> 
> So if you want to maximise the chances of your replies being read, reply
> using NNTP - even if you read via email.

Subscribers should use whatever method they prefer. If your newsreader 
isn't displaying threads properly, you should get support for your 
newsreader, not ask others not to use the mailing list.

-- 
Chris Ilias <http://ilias.ca>
Mailing list/Newsgroup moderator
0
Chris
11/16/2017 5:15:08 PM
Reply: