How do I file a bug?

Start here, at Mozilla's home page:
   https://www.mozilla.org/

Give me steps to reproduce to find instructions for filing
a bug against Firefox. Ditto for up-to-date instructions
for building the source and submitting a patch.

(Don't send me links to the instructions; I'm cheating by
asking here already. Walk me through the process of
discovering how I can contribute to Mozilla and make the
world a better place. I wouldn't be here if I hadn't
already walked that path 19 years ago, but I can't find it
anymore so I need some help.)

~fantasai
0
fantasai
10/4/2018 10:45:38 PM
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On 10/04/2018 03:45 PM, fantasai wrote:
> Start here, at Mozilla's home page:
>   https://www.mozilla.org/
>
> Give me steps to reproduce to find instructions for filing
> a bug against Firefox. Ditto for up-to-date instructions
> for building the source and submitting a patch.
>
> (Don't send me links to the instructions; I'm cheating by
> asking here already. Walk me through the process of
> discovering how I can contribute to Mozilla and make the
> world a better place. I wouldn't be here if I hadn't
> already walked that path 19 years ago, but I can't find it
> anymore so I need some help.) 

I tried it out, and did better than I expected on my first run-through:

1. https://www.mozilla.org/

2. Scroll all the way down to the black section and click on "Firefox" 
(but note that this was because my brain has a clear distinction between 
"mozilla" and "firefox", so I was looking for anything firefox-specific 
as it didn't make sense to me to file a bug against mozilla.)

3. Click on "support" up near the top.

4. Oh. A general support page. Type "file a bug" into the search box.

5. Top result is "How do I submit a bug for Firefox sync? 
<https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-do-i-submit-bug-firefox-sync>". 
Not exactly what I wanted, but perhaps close enough. Click on it.

6. The resulting Table of Contents has a section "File a bug". Click on it.

7. That takes you to text that says "file a bug here" with a link to 
<https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Mozilla%20Services>. 
Click on it.

8. That goes to a Permission Denied page "Sorry, either the product 
/Mozilla Services/ does not exist or you aren't authorized to enter a 
bug into it." Click on "File a New Bug" in the upper right.

9. Victory!

In reality, I'm not sure I would make it through all that. I'd give up 
at some point and do

N: google search "file a bug on firefox"

N+1: First result: "How do I post a bug report on Mozilla Firefox? | 
Firefox Support Forum" 
<https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwioy7Hs9e3dAhVDmK0KHTYcAqoQFjAAegQIBxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fsupport.mozilla.org%2Fquestions%2F1188220&usg=AOvVaw1xLeJ8Yjo3BxV1Wxy_gfu4>

N+2: Follow the link there to https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/

I know that's not what you asked. I agree that a nice path from 
www.mozilla.org would be beneficial, especially for promoting the 
volunteer aspect of the project.

0
Steve
10/4/2018 11:26:17 PM
On 10/04/2018 04:26 PM, Steve Fink wrote:
> On 10/04/2018 03:45 PM, fantasai wrote:
>> Start here, at Mozilla's home page:
>>   https://www.mozilla.org/
>>
>> Give me steps to reproduce to find instructions for filing
>> a bug against Firefox. Ditto for up-to-date instructions
>> for building the source and submitting a patch.
>>
>> (Don't send me links to the instructions; I'm cheating by
>> asking here already. Walk me through the process of
>> discovering how I can contribute to Mozilla and make the
>> world a better place. I wouldn't be here if I hadn't
>> already walked that path 19 years ago, but I can't find it
>> anymore so I need some help.) 
> 
> I tried it out, and did better than I expected on my first run-through:
> [...]

I'm impressed! Want to take a stab at finding patch-submission
instructions? :D

 > I agree that a nice path from www.mozilla.org would be beneficial,
 > especially for promoting the volunteer aspect of the project.

We've got a lot of highly-produced (read: expensive) material
promoting the volunteer aspect of Mozilla:
   https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/
But afaict none of it actually leads to a viable path towards
actually becoming a technical contributor...

 From my discussions with staff at Mozilla, the people actually
working with volunteers (like QA and l10n) find this very
frustrating, but the people whose job it is to connect volunteers
to opportunities to contribute don't think it's useful, important,
or in some cases even a good idea to fix this problem. I don't
know how to break through that resistance, and I find it very
demoralizing that there even is any. :(

I'm also disconnected enough from Mozilla the last few years
that I've no idea where up-to-date documentation on this stuff
would live. If I ever manage to dig myself out of the backlog
of spec work enough to write a patch, I'd like to know where
to look!

Fwiw, here's how I arrived at becoming a technical contributor:
   https://web.archive.org/web/20000125153750/http://www.mozilla.org:80/
   https://web.archive.org/web/20000301043132/http://www.mozilla.org:80/get-involved.html
 
https://web.archive.org/web/20000302035824/http://www.mozilla.org:80/quality/bug-writing-guidelines.html
   https://web.archive.org/web/20000304015940/http://www.mozilla.org:80/newlayout/bugathon.html

“One of the things that people seem to like best about the
existing content on mozilla.org is that it is written by people,
for people, without bluster or self-promotion.”
    -- jwz, Mozilla Documentation Style Guide, 1999

~fantasai
0
fantasai
10/5/2018 12:14:47 AM
On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 05:14:47PM -0700, fantasai wrote:
> On 10/04/2018 04:26 PM, Steve Fink wrote:
> > On 10/04/2018 03:45 PM, fantasai wrote:
> > > Start here, at Mozilla's home page:
> > > � https://www.mozilla.org/
> > > 
> > > Give me steps to reproduce to find instructions for filing
> > > a bug against Firefox. Ditto for up-to-date instructions
> > > for building the source and submitting a patch.
> > > 
> > > (Don't send me links to the instructions; I'm cheating by
> > > asking here already. Walk me through the process of
> > > discovering how I can contribute to Mozilla and make the
> > > world a better place. I wouldn't be here if I hadn't
> > > already walked that path 19 years ago, but I can't find it
> > > anymore so I need some help.)
> > 
> > I tried it out, and did better than I expected on my first run-through:
> > [...]
> 
> I'm impressed! Want to take a stab at finding patch-submission
> instructions? :D
> 
> > I agree that a nice path from www.mozilla.org would be beneficial,
> > especially for promoting the volunteer aspect of the project.
> 
> We've got a lot of highly-produced (read: expensive) material
> promoting the volunteer aspect of Mozilla:
>   https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/
> But afaict none of it actually leads to a viable path towards
> actually becoming a technical contributor...
> 
> From my discussions with staff at Mozilla, the people actually
> working with volunteers (like QA and l10n) find this very
> frustrating, but the people whose job it is to connect volunteers
> to opportunities to contribute don't think it's useful, important,
> or in some cases even a good idea to fix this problem. I don't
> know how to break through that resistance, and I find it very
> demoralizing that there even is any. :(
> 
> I'm also disconnected enough from Mozilla the last few years
> that I've no idea where up-to-date documentation on this stuff
> would live. If I ever manage to dig myself out of the backlog
> of spec work enough to write a patch, I'd like to know where
> to look!
> 
> Fwiw, here's how I arrived at becoming a technical contributor:
>   https://web.archive.org/web/20000125153750/http://www.mozilla.org:80/
>   https://web.archive.org/web/20000301043132/http://www.mozilla.org:80/get-involved.html
> 
> https://web.archive.org/web/20000302035824/http://www.mozilla.org:80/quality/bug-writing-guidelines.html
>   https://web.archive.org/web/20000304015940/http://www.mozilla.org:80/newlayout/bugathon.html

I gave a shot at a generic "I want to contribute" approach of the web
site.

Starting from https://www.mozilla.org, there's a "Get Involved" link at
the top, which leads to https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/, which
has another "Get Involved" button... which leads to
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/signup/, a disappointing list of
3 simple items, 3 "more challenging" items, and ... nothing else.

And what items:
- simple
  - Connect with Mozilla on Twitter
  - Use Firefox on your phone
  - Discover why we can't live without encryption

- more challenging:
  - watch someone live hack on Firefox
  - Learn a bit about coding (which is disappointingly a link to
    developer tools challenger)
  - Start using the Mozilla Sumbler app

Why there's no link to https://codetribute.mozilla.org/ is beyond me
(and it does not help to get to filing new bugs, though)
 
Mike
0
Mike
10/5/2018 12:41:30 AM
On Thursday, October 4, 2018 at 5:14:53 PM UTC-7, fantasai wrote:
> On 10/04/2018 04:26 PM, Steve Fink wrote:
> > On 10/04/2018 03:45 PM, fantasai wrote:
> >> Start here, at Mozilla's home page:
> >> =C2=A0 https://www.mozilla.org/
> >>
> >> Give me steps to reproduce to find instructions for filing
> >> a bug against Firefox. Ditto for up-to-date instructions
> >> for building the source and submitting a patch.
> >>
> >> (Don't send me links to the instructions; I'm cheating by
> >> asking here already. Walk me through the process of
> >> discovering how I can contribute to Mozilla and make the
> >> world a better place. I wouldn't be here if I hadn't
> >> already walked that path 19 years ago, but I can't find it
> >> anymore so I need some help.)=20
> >=20
> > I tried it out, and did better than I expected on my first run-through:
> > [...]
>=20
> I'm impressed! Want to take a stab at finding patch-submission
> instructions? :D
>=20
>  > I agree that a nice path from www.mozilla.org would be beneficial,
>  > especially for promoting the volunteer aspect of the project.
>=20
> We've got a lot of highly-produced (read: expensive) material
> promoting the volunteer aspect of Mozilla:
>    https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/
> But afaict none of it actually leads to a viable path towards
> actually becoming a technical contributor...
>=20
>  From my discussions with staff at Mozilla, the people actually
> working with volunteers (like QA and l10n) find this very
> frustrating, but the people whose job it is to connect volunteers
> to opportunities to contribute don't think it's useful, important,
> or in some cases even a good idea to fix this problem. I don't
> know how to break through that resistance, and I find it very
> demoralizing that there even is any. :(
>=20
> I'm also disconnected enough from Mozilla the last few years
> that I've no idea where up-to-date documentation on this stuff
> would live. If I ever manage to dig myself out of the backlog
> of spec work enough to write a patch, I'd like to know where
> to look!
>=20
> Fwiw, here's how I arrived at becoming a technical contributor:
>    https://web.archive.org/web/20000125153750/http://www.mozilla.org:80/
>    https://web.archive.org/web/20000301043132/http://www.mozilla.org:80/g=
et-involved.html
> =20
> https://web.archive.org/web/20000302035824/http://www.mozilla.org:80/qual=
ity/bug-writing-guidelines.html
>    https://web.archive.org/web/20000304015940/http://www.mozilla.org:80/n=
ewlayout/bugathon.html
>=20
> =E2=80=9COne of the things that people seem to like best about the
> existing content on mozilla.org is that it is written by people,
> for people, without bluster or self-promotion.=E2=80=9D
>     -- jwz, Mozilla Documentation Style Guide, 1999
>=20
> ~fantasai

I would say adding a link to https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozil=
la/QA/Bug_writing_guidelines (or maybe https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb=
/contributors-guide-writing-good-bug ) in the "More links" section at the b=
ottom of https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/ would go a long way towa=
rd having a better onboarding experience for filing bugs.

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Developer_guide/How_to_Sub=
mit_a_Patch would be the patch for patch submission.
0
KWierso
10/5/2018 12:42:48 AM
As a longtime contributor, I’m also concerned about the current situation. The contribution starting point (or Mozilla’s information architecture in general) is a total mess.

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/signup/
https://codetribute.mozilla.org/
https://activate.mozilla.community/
https://campus.mozilla.community/
https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/participate/
https://mozilla.github.io/webdev/
https://www.whatcanidoformozilla.org/

and that’s not all. The Participation team should be doing a much better job here.

Speaking to Bugzilla where I’m volunteering as a UX designer, improving the onboarding experience for both contributors and new Mozilla employees is one of my goals in 2019 [1], but it will be possible only when stakeholders are involved.

[1] https://github.com/bugzilla/bugzilla-ux/wiki/Bugzilla-7-Roadmap#even-more

-Kohei


On 2018-10-04 8:41 PM, Mike Hommey wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 05:14:47PM -0700, fantasai wrote:
>> On 10/04/2018 04:26 PM, Steve Fink wrote:
>>> On 10/04/2018 03:45 PM, fantasai wrote:
>>>> Start here, at Mozilla's home page:
>>>>    https://www.mozilla.org/
>>>>
>>>> Give me steps to reproduce to find instructions for filing
>>>> a bug against Firefox. Ditto for up-to-date instructions
>>>> for building the source and submitting a patch.
>>>>
>>>> (Don't send me links to the instructions; I'm cheating by
>>>> asking here already. Walk me through the process of
>>>> discovering how I can contribute to Mozilla and make the
>>>> world a better place. I wouldn't be here if I hadn't
>>>> already walked that path 19 years ago, but I can't find it
>>>> anymore so I need some help.)
>>>
>>> I tried it out, and did better than I expected on my first run-through:
>>> [...]
>>
>> I'm impressed! Want to take a stab at finding patch-submission
>> instructions? :D
>>
>>> I agree that a nice path from www.mozilla.org would be beneficial,
>>> especially for promoting the volunteer aspect of the project.
>>
>> We've got a lot of highly-produced (read: expensive) material
>> promoting the volunteer aspect of Mozilla:
>>    https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/
>> But afaict none of it actually leads to a viable path towards
>> actually becoming a technical contributor...
>>
>>  From my discussions with staff at Mozilla, the people actually
>> working with volunteers (like QA and l10n) find this very
>> frustrating, but the people whose job it is to connect volunteers
>> to opportunities to contribute don't think it's useful, important,
>> or in some cases even a good idea to fix this problem. I don't
>> know how to break through that resistance, and I find it very
>> demoralizing that there even is any. :(
>>
>> I'm also disconnected enough from Mozilla the last few years
>> that I've no idea where up-to-date documentation on this stuff
>> would live. If I ever manage to dig myself out of the backlog
>> of spec work enough to write a patch, I'd like to know where
>> to look!
>>
>> Fwiw, here's how I arrived at becoming a technical contributor:
>>    https://web.archive.org/web/20000125153750/http://www.mozilla.org:80/
>>    https://web.archive.org/web/20000301043132/http://www.mozilla.org:80/get-involved.html
>>
>> https://web.archive.org/web/20000302035824/http://www.mozilla.org:80/quality/bug-writing-guidelines.html
>>    https://web.archive.org/web/20000304015940/http://www.mozilla.org:80/newlayout/bugathon.html
> 
> I gave a shot at a generic "I want to contribute" approach of the web
> site.
> 
> Starting from https://www.mozilla.org, there's a "Get Involved" link at
> the top, which leads to https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/, which
> has another "Get Involved" button... which leads to
> https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/signup/, a disappointing list of
> 3 simple items, 3 "more challenging" items, and ... nothing else.
> 
> And what items:
> - simple
>    - Connect with Mozilla on Twitter
>    - Use Firefox on your phone
>    - Discover why we can't live without encryption
> 
> - more challenging:
>    - watch someone live hack on Firefox
>    - Learn a bit about coding (which is disappointingly a link to
>      developer tools challenger)
>    - Start using the Mozilla Sumbler app
> 
> Why there's no link to https://codetribute.mozilla.org/ is beyond me
> (and it does not help to get to filing new bugs, though)
0
Kohei
10/5/2018 1:45:01 AM
Hey all,

A big part of attracting and retaining great contributors is the tone we
set when we talk to one another.

If you see a problem and want to make things better, then you should come
up with a solution, and also do your best to communicate it effectively to
the relevant people. (Bonus points for volunteering to help implement the
fix, even if it turns out to be different from the solution you proposed.)
This is an effective way to make actual progress. Calling out team A on
team B's mailing list is not.

If you want to understand why things are the way they are, and propose
solutions to the problems that you see, you can connect with different
teams within Mozilla via their public discussion forums, like the
Participation team's Discourse instance[1] or the dev-webdev list[2]. The
Mozilla wiki has pages for all these teams, and is a good starting point.

I also want to point out that Mozilla activities are governed by the
community participation guidelines. Note that "Be Respectful" is the first
guideline listed:
https://www.mozilla.org/about/governance/policies/participation/

Let's work together to build a positive, welcoming community, and help each
other to stay focused on solving problems in a constructive manner.

Cheers,

Jared

[1] https://discourse.mozilla.org/tags/c/mozillians/participation
[2] https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-webdev


On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 6:43 PM Kohei Yoshino <kohei.yoshino@gmail.com>
wrote:

> As a longtime contributor, I=E2=80=99m also concerned about the current s=
ituation.
> The contribution starting point (or Mozilla=E2=80=99s information archite=
cture in
> general) is a total mess.
>
> https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/signup/
> https://codetribute.mozilla.org/
> https://activate.mozilla.community/
> https://campus.mozilla.community/
> https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/participate/
> https://mozilla.github.io/webdev/
> https://www.whatcanidoformozilla.org/
>
> and that=E2=80=99s not all. The Participation team should be doing a much=
 better
> job here.
>
> Speaking to Bugzilla where I=E2=80=99m volunteering as a UX designer, imp=
roving
> the onboarding experience for both contributors and new Mozilla employees
> is one of my goals in 2019 [1], but it will be possible only when
> stakeholders are involved.
>
> [1]
> https://github.com/bugzilla/bugzilla-ux/wiki/Bugzilla-7-Roadmap#even-more
>
> -Kohei
>
>
> On 2018-10-04 8:41 PM, Mike Hommey wrote:
> > On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 05:14:47PM -0700, fantasai wrote:
> >> On 10/04/2018 04:26 PM, Steve Fink wrote:
> >>> On 10/04/2018 03:45 PM, fantasai wrote:
> >>>> Start here, at Mozilla's home page:
> >>>>    https://www.mozilla.org/
> >>>>
> >>>> Give me steps to reproduce to find instructions for filing
> >>>> a bug against Firefox. Ditto for up-to-date instructions
> >>>> for building the source and submitting a patch.
> >>>>
> >>>> (Don't send me links to the instructions; I'm cheating by
> >>>> asking here already. Walk me through the process of
> >>>> discovering how I can contribute to Mozilla and make the
> >>>> world a better place. I wouldn't be here if I hadn't
> >>>> already walked that path 19 years ago, but I can't find it
> >>>> anymore so I need some help.)
> >>>
> >>> I tried it out, and did better than I expected on my first run-throug=
h:
> >>> [...]
> >>
> >> I'm impressed! Want to take a stab at finding patch-submission
> >> instructions? :D
> >>
> >>> I agree that a nice path from www.mozilla.org would be beneficial,
> >>> especially for promoting the volunteer aspect of the project.
> >>
> >> We've got a lot of highly-produced (read: expensive) material
> >> promoting the volunteer aspect of Mozilla:
> >>    https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/
> >> But afaict none of it actually leads to a viable path towards
> >> actually becoming a technical contributor...
> >>
> >>  From my discussions with staff at Mozilla, the people actually
> >> working with volunteers (like QA and l10n) find this very
> >> frustrating, but the people whose job it is to connect volunteers
> >> to opportunities to contribute don't think it's useful, important,
> >> or in some cases even a good idea to fix this problem. I don't
> >> know how to break through that resistance, and I find it very
> >> demoralizing that there even is any. :(
> >>
> >> I'm also disconnected enough from Mozilla the last few years
> >> that I've no idea where up-to-date documentation on this stuff
> >> would live. If I ever manage to dig myself out of the backlog
> >> of spec work enough to write a patch, I'd like to know where
> >> to look!
> >>
> >> Fwiw, here's how I arrived at becoming a technical contributor:
> >>
> https://web.archive.org/web/20000125153750/http://www.mozilla.org:80/
> >>
> https://web.archive.org/web/20000301043132/http://www.mozilla.org:80/get-=
involved.html
> >>
> >>
> https://web.archive.org/web/20000302035824/http://www.mozilla.org:80/qual=
ity/bug-writing-guidelines.html
> >>
> https://web.archive.org/web/20000304015940/http://www.mozilla.org:80/newl=
ayout/bugathon.html
> >
> > I gave a shot at a generic "I want to contribute" approach of the web
> > site.
> >
> > Starting from https://www.mozilla.org, there's a "Get Involved" link at
> > the top, which leads to https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/, whic=
h
> > has another "Get Involved" button... which leads to
> > https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/signup/, a disappointing list
> of
> > 3 simple items, 3 "more challenging" items, and ... nothing else.
> >
> > And what items:
> > - simple
> >    - Connect with Mozilla on Twitter
> >    - Use Firefox on your phone
> >    - Discover why we can't live without encryption
> >
> > - more challenging:
> >    - watch someone live hack on Firefox
> >    - Learn a bit about coding (which is disappointingly a link to
> >      developer tools challenger)
> >    - Start using the Mozilla Sumbler app
> >
> > Why there's no link to https://codetribute.mozilla.org/ is beyond me
> > (and it does not help to get to filing new bugs, though)
> _______________________________________________
> dev-platform mailing list
> dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
>
0
Jared
10/8/2018 6:58:19 PM
Below is the text from the code of conduct. The CoC does say to be
positive, but it is also at pains to emphasize the importance of being able
to speak directly, being open to being wrong, and valuing others' input.
I read frustration being expressed in this thread, but not disrespect. The
original criticism seems on-point, and there are many specifics provided.
The obligation to criticize constructively does not, I think, extend to an
obligation to "come up with a solution". A bug report without a patch
should still be welcome, if it's accurate and actionable.
The original question does suggest being unsure where to even report the
problem, but at this point that has been cleared up. I agree with Jared
that further discussion belongs where the people who can do something about
the problem can see it.

Be Respectful
>
> Value each other=E2=80=99s ideas, styles and viewpoints. We may not alway=
s agree,
> but disagreement is no excuse for poor manners. Be open to different
> possibilities and to being wrong. Be kind in all interactions and
> communications, especially when debating the merits of different options.
> Be aware of your impact and how intense interactions may be affecting
> people. Be direct, constructive and positive. Take responsibility for you=
r
> impact and your mistakes =E2=80=93 if someone says they have been harmed =
through
> your words or actions, listen carefully, apologize sincerely, and correct
> the behavior going forward.
> Be Direct but Professional
>
> We are likely to have some discussions about if and when criticism is
> respectful and when it=E2=80=99s not. We *must* be able to speak directly=
 when we
> disagree and when we think we need to improve. We cannot withhold hard
> truths. Doing so respectfully is hard, doing so when others don=E2=80=99t=
 seem to
> be listening is harder, and hearing such comments when one is the recipie=
nt
> can be even harder still. We need to be honest and direct, as well as
> respectful.
>
0
Jim
10/8/2018 8:46:25 PM
For what it's worth, there are a few open bugs on file already for the 
/contribute page, the main one I'm aware of is
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1275323

At this point, I guess the main stakeholder in this conversation would 
be the Participation team?

Francesco
> On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 05:14:47PM -0700, fantasai wrote:
>> On 10/04/2018 04:26 PM, Steve Fink wrote:
>>> On 10/04/2018 03:45 PM, fantasai wrote:
>>>> Start here, at Mozilla's home page:
>>>>  � https://www.mozilla.org/
>>>>
>>>> Give me steps to reproduce to find instructions for filing
>>>> a bug against Firefox. Ditto for up-to-date instructions
>>>> for building the source and submitting a patch.
>>>>
>>>> (Don't send me links to the instructions; I'm cheating by
>>>> asking here already. Walk me through the process of
>>>> discovering how I can contribute to Mozilla and make the
>>>> world a better place. I wouldn't be here if I hadn't
>>>> already walked that path 19 years ago, but I can't find it
>>>> anymore so I need some help.)
>>> I tried it out, and did better than I expected on my first run-through:
>>> [...]
>> I'm impressed! Want to take a stab at finding patch-submission
>> instructions? :D
>>
>>> I agree that a nice path from www.mozilla.org would be beneficial,
>>> especially for promoting the volunteer aspect of the project.
>> We've got a lot of highly-produced (read: expensive) material
>> promoting the volunteer aspect of Mozilla:
>>    https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/
>> But afaict none of it actually leads to a viable path towards
>> actually becoming a technical contributor...
>>
>>  From my discussions with staff at Mozilla, the people actually
>> working with volunteers (like QA and l10n) find this very
>> frustrating, but the people whose job it is to connect volunteers
>> to opportunities to contribute don't think it's useful, important,
>> or in some cases even a good idea to fix this problem. I don't
>> know how to break through that resistance, and I find it very
>> demoralizing that there even is any. :(
>>
>> I'm also disconnected enough from Mozilla the last few years
>> that I've no idea where up-to-date documentation on this stuff
>> would live. If I ever manage to dig myself out of the backlog
>> of spec work enough to write a patch, I'd like to know where
>> to look!
>>
>> Fwiw, here's how I arrived at becoming a technical contributor:
>>    https://web.archive.org/web/20000125153750/http://www.mozilla.org:80/
>>    https://web.archive.org/web/20000301043132/http://www.mozilla.org:80/get-involved.html
>>
>> https://web.archive.org/web/20000302035824/http://www.mozilla.org:80/quality/bug-writing-guidelines.html
>>    https://web.archive.org/web/20000304015940/http://www.mozilla.org:80/newlayout/bugathon.html
> I gave a shot at a generic "I want to contribute" approach of the web
> site.
>
> Starting from https://www.mozilla.org, there's a "Get Involved" link at
> the top, which leads to https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/, which
> has another "Get Involved" button... which leads to
> https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/signup/, a disappointing list of
> 3 simple items, 3 "more challenging" items, and ... nothing else.
>
> And what items:
> - simple
>    - Connect with Mozilla on Twitter
>    - Use Firefox on your phone
>    - Discover why we can't live without encryption
>
> - more challenging:
>    - watch someone live hack on Firefox
>    - Learn a bit about coding (which is disappointingly a link to
>      developer tools challenger)
>    - Start using the Mozilla Sumbler app
>
> Why there's no link to https://codetribute.mozilla.org/ is beyond me
> (and it does not help to get to filing new bugs, though)
>   
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> dev-platform mailing list
> dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform

0
Francesco
10/9/2018 5:47:17 AM
Sorry, I pushed the Send button too quickly, and my message was wrongly nuanced. I didn’t have any intention to complain; as a contributor working in the WebDev and UX areas, I’d rather like to help here. I have been doing some research on Mozilla web properties (that’s why I could provide a list of the relevant sites) [1], and even made a quick mock-up of an improved page several years ago. And as mentioned earlier, improving the Bugzilla onboarding experience is on my 2019 to-do list. I’m more than happy to discuss the matter with the stakeholders online or in person at All Hands!

-Kohei

[1] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Vh8lAXh7cQ5VVBW8EWu7pTA1EaNVvpVplLFGPBELRHw


On 2018-10-08 2:58 PM, Jared Hirsch wrote:
> Hey all,
> 
> A big part of attracting and retaining great contributors is the tone we set when we talk to one another.
> 
> If you see a problem and want to make things better, then you should come up with a solution, and also do your best to communicate it effectively to the relevant people. (Bonus points for volunteering to help implement the fix, even if it turns out to be different from the solution you proposed.) This is an effective way to make actual progress. Calling out team A on team B's mailing list is not.
> 
> If you want to understand why things are the way they are, and propose solutions to the problems that you see, you can connect with different teams within Mozilla via their public discussion forums, like the Participation team's Discourse instance[1] or the dev-webdev list[2]. The Mozilla wiki has pages for all these teams, and is a good starting point.
> 
> I also want to point out that Mozilla activities are governed by the community participation guidelines. Note that "Be Respectful" is the first guideline listed: https://www.mozilla.org/about/governance/policies/participation/
> 
> Let's work together to build a positive, welcoming community, and help each other to stay focused on solving problems in a constructive manner.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Jared
> 
> [1] https://discourse.mozilla.org/tags/c/mozillians/participation
> [2] https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-webdev
> 
> 
> On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 6:43 PM Kohei Yoshino <kohei.yoshino@gmail.com <mailto:kohei.yoshino@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     As a longtime contributor, I’m also concerned about the current situation. The contribution starting point (or Mozilla’s information architecture in general) is a total mess.
> 
>     https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/signup/
>     https://codetribute.mozilla.org/
>     https://activate.mozilla.community/
>     https://campus.mozilla.community/
>     https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/participate/
>     https://mozilla.github.io/webdev/
>     https://www.whatcanidoformozilla.org/
> 
>     and that’s not all. The Participation team should be doing a much better job here.
> 
>     Speaking to Bugzilla where I’m volunteering as a UX designer, improving the onboarding experience for both contributors and new Mozilla employees is one of my goals in 2019 [1], but it will be possible only when stakeholders are involved.
> 
>     [1] https://github.com/bugzilla/bugzilla-ux/wiki/Bugzilla-7-Roadmap#even-more
> 
>     -Kohei
> 
> 
>     On 2018-10-04 8:41 PM, Mike Hommey wrote:
>      > On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 05:14:47PM -0700, fantasai wrote:
>      >> On 10/04/2018 04:26 PM, Steve Fink wrote:
>      >>> On 10/04/2018 03:45 PM, fantasai wrote:
>      >>>> Start here, at Mozilla's home page:
>      >>>> https://www.mozilla.org/
>      >>>>
>      >>>> Give me steps to reproduce to find instructions for filing
>      >>>> a bug against Firefox. Ditto for up-to-date instructions
>      >>>> for building the source and submitting a patch.
>      >>>>
>      >>>> (Don't send me links to the instructions; I'm cheating by
>      >>>> asking here already. Walk me through the process of
>      >>>> discovering how I can contribute to Mozilla and make the
>      >>>> world a better place. I wouldn't be here if I hadn't
>      >>>> already walked that path 19 years ago, but I can't find it
>      >>>> anymore so I need some help.)
>      >>>
>      >>> I tried it out, and did better than I expected on my first run-through:
>      >>> [...]
>      >>
>      >> I'm impressed! Want to take a stab at finding patch-submission
>      >> instructions? :D
>      >>
>      >>> I agree that a nice path from www.mozilla.org <http://www.mozilla.org> would be beneficial,
>      >>> especially for promoting the volunteer aspect of the project.
>      >>
>      >> We've got a lot of highly-produced (read: expensive) material
>      >> promoting the volunteer aspect of Mozilla:
>      >> https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/
>      >> But afaict none of it actually leads to a viable path towards
>      >> actually becoming a technical contributor...
>      >>
>      >>  From my discussions with staff at Mozilla, the people actually
>      >> working with volunteers (like QA and l10n) find this very
>      >> frustrating, but the people whose job it is to connect volunteers
>      >> to opportunities to contribute don't think it's useful, important,
>      >> or in some cases even a good idea to fix this problem. I don't
>      >> know how to break through that resistance, and I find it very
>      >> demoralizing that there even is any. :(
>      >>
>      >> I'm also disconnected enough from Mozilla the last few years
>      >> that I've no idea where up-to-date documentation on this stuff
>      >> would live. If I ever manage to dig myself out of the backlog
>      >> of spec work enough to write a patch, I'd like to know where
>      >> to look!
>      >>
>      >> Fwiw, here's how I arrived at becoming a technical contributor:
>      >> https://web.archive.org/web/20000125153750/http://www.mozilla.org:80/
>      >> https://web.archive.org/web/20000301043132/http://www.mozilla.org:80/get-involved.html
>      >>
>      >> https://web.archive.org/web/20000302035824/http://www.mozilla.org:80/quality/bug-writing-guidelines.html
>      >> https://web.archive.org/web/20000304015940/http://www.mozilla.org:80/newlayout/bugathon.html
>      >
>      > I gave a shot at a generic "I want to contribute" approach of the web
>      > site.
>      >
>      > Starting from https://www.mozilla.org, there's a "Get Involved" link at
>      > the top, which leads to https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/, which
>      > has another "Get Involved" button... which leads to
>      > https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/contribute/signup/, a disappointing list of
>      > 3 simple items, 3 "more challenging" items, and ... nothing else.
>      >
>      > And what items:
>      > - simple
>      >    - Connect with Mozilla on Twitter
>      >    - Use Firefox on your phone
>      >    - Discover why we can't live without encryption
>      >
>      > - more challenging:
>      >    - watch someone live hack on Firefox
>      >    - Learn a bit about coding (which is disappointingly a link to
>      >      developer tools challenger)
>      >    - Start using the Mozilla Sumbler app
>      >
>      > Why there's no link to https://codetribute.mozilla.org/ is beyond me
>      > (and it does not help to get to filing new bugs, though)
0
Kohei
10/9/2018 9:05:04 AM
Reply: