SeaMonkey 2.0.8 Available

The Mozilla community discovered a crash some of our users have been 
seeing at startup after updates to our previous releases. To fix that 
issue, SeaMonkey 2.0.8 is now available for Windows, Mac, and Linux as a 
free download from www.seamonkey-project.org.

We strongly recommend that all SeaMonkey and old suite users upgrade to 
this latest release. If you already have SeaMonkey 2.0, you will receive 
an automated update notification within 24 to 48 hours. This update can 
also be applied manually by selecting "Check for Updates..." from the 
Help menu.

For a list of changes and more information, please review the SeaMonkey 
2.0.8 Release Notes.

Note: All users of the outdated SeaMonkey 1.x, Mozilla or Netscape 
suites are encouraged to upgrade to SeaMonkey 2.0 by downloading it from 
www.seamonkey-project.org.

Full news article:
http://www.seamonkey-project.org/news#2010-09-15

Downloads for all available platforms and languages:
http://www.seamonkey-project.org/releases/

Release notes:
http://www.seamonkey-project.org/releases/seamonkey2.0.8

System Requirements:
http://www.seamonkey-project.org/doc/2.0/system-requirements

Robert Kaiser
SeaMonkey project coordinator
0
Robert
9/15/2010 10:17:16 PM
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 > Robert Kaiser wrote:
> The Mozilla community discovered a crash some of our users have been
> seeing at startup after updates to our previous releases. To fix that
> issue, SeaMonkey 2.0.8 is now available for Windows, Mac, and Linux as a
> free download from www.seamonkey-project.org.
>
> We strongly recommend that all SeaMonkey and old suite users upgrade to
> this latest release. If you already have SeaMonkey 2.0, you will receive
> an automated update notification within 24 to 48 hours. This update can
> also be applied manually by selecting "Check for Updates..." from the
> Help menu.

I have 2.0.7 and just clicked Check for Updates and it replied that 
there were no updates available.

This is a Linux install, if that matters.

-- 

Thanks! & 73, doc, KD4E
"Communicators must defend free speech
or risk losing freedom entirely."
A Search Engine & More! http://ixquick.com
             |_|___|_|
             | | & | |
        /\      {|
       /  \     {|
      /    \    {|
     /   @  \   {|
     |   |~_|~~~~|
     |   -| |    |
============\ # http://KD4E.com
Have an http://ultrafidian.com day!
0
doc
9/15/2010 11:21:56 PM
doc@kd4e.com schrieb:
> I have 2.0.7 and just clicked Check for Updates and it replied that
> there were no updates available.

Hey, take your time, I'm no machine. I'm not finished with all of the 
release stuff yet, I still need to push the update "snippets" so the 
update server knows about them. Will do that in the next minutes.

Robert Kaiser
0
Robert
9/15/2010 11:35:03 PM
Robert Kaiser wrote:
>...  SeaMonkey 2.0.8 is now available for Windows, Mac, and Linux as a
> free download from www.seamonkey-project.org.
> ...

Working fine on Mac (so far...)  Sorry, no time to smoketest.

Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.1.13) 
Gecko/20100914 SeaMonkey/2.0.8

-- 
Rich        (Pull thorn from address to e-mail me.)
SeaMonkey - Surfing the net has never been so suite!
0
Rich
9/16/2010 1:08:06 AM
Rich Gray <rbg_smthorn@graysmail.com> wrote:
> Robert Kaiser wrote:
>> ...  SeaMonkey 2.0.8 is now available for Windows, Mac, and Linux as
> > a
>> free download from www.seamonkey-project.org.
>> ...
> 
> Working fine on Mac (so far...)  Sorry, no time to smoketest.
> 
> Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.1.13)
> Gecko/20100914 SeaMonkey/2.0.8

Update also working on Tiger and Leopard.

Lee
0
Leonidas
9/16/2010 1:29:08 AM
Leonidas Jones wrote:
> Rich Gray<rbg_smthorn@graysmail.com>  wrote:
>> Robert Kaiser wrote:
>>> ...  SeaMonkey 2.0.8 is now available for Windows, Mac, and Linux as
>>> a
>>> free download from www.seamonkey-project.org.
>>> ...
>>
>> Working fine on Mac (so far...)  Sorry, no time to smoketest.
>>
>> Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.1.13)
>> Gecko/20100914 SeaMonkey/2.0.8
>
> Update also working on Tiger and Leopard.
>
> Lee
I'm passing on this due to the new sanitizer Code I will continue 
passing it up until its removed or someone comes up with a way to bypass 
it. No one has the right to babysit me and tell me what I can do. I've 
been using Netscape Since 3.0.1a Gold.  So I've been around the block 
quite a few years.

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/16/2010 2:53:49 AM
Phillip Jones wrote:
> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>> Rich Gray<rbg_smthorn@graysmail.com> wrote:
>>> Robert Kaiser wrote:
>>>> ... SeaMonkey 2.0.8 is now available for Windows, Mac, and Linux as
>>>> a
>>>> free download from www.seamonkey-project.org.
>>>> ...
>>>
>>> Working fine on Mac (so far...) Sorry, no time to smoketest.
>>>
>>> Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.1.13)
>>> Gecko/20100914 SeaMonkey/2.0.8
>>
>> Update also working on Tiger and Leopard.
>>
>> Lee
> I'm passing on this due to the new sanitizer Code I will continue
> passing it up until its removed or someone comes up with a way to bypass
> it. No one has the right to babysit me and tell me what I can do. I've
> been using Netscape Since 3.0.1a Gold. So I've been around the block
> quite a few years.
>

Sorry, Phillip, refresh my mind. What do you mean by "sanitizer Code"?

Daniel
0
Daniel
9/16/2010 12:29:23 PM
Working fine on a PC with Windows XP SP3.  Although I don't normally run
that way, I started SeaMonkey by launching the Profile Manager and
selecting a profile.  (Usually, I launch SeaMonkey via a shortcut that
contains the -p switch to select my primary profile.)

Downloaded the partial .mar file and installed it via a script I made
based on
<https://wiki.mozilla.org/Software_Update:Manually_Installing_a_MAR_file>.
 I still wish bug #340330 were implemented so that I would not need to
maintain my script.

-- 

David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>.

Anyone who thinks government owns a monopoly on inefficient, obstructive
bureaucracy has obviously never worked for a large corporation.
� 1997 by David E. Ross
0
David
9/16/2010 3:27:51 PM
> doc@kd4e.com schrieb:
>> I have 2.0.7 and just clicked Check for Updates and it replied that
>> there were no updates available.
>
> Hey, take your time, I'm no machine. I'm not finished with all of the
> release stuff yet, I still need to push the update "snippets" so the
> update server knows about them. Will do that in the next minutes.
>
> Robert Kaiser

Working fine in Puppy Linux on two laptops with Lucid 5.1 and on a
Netbook with Fluppy 005

Thanks!

-- 

Thanks! & 73, doc, KD4E
"Communicators must defend free speech
or risk losing freedom entirely."
A Search Engine & More! http://ixquick.com
             |_|___|_|
             | | & | |
        /\      {|
       /  \     {|
      /    \    {|
     /   @  \   {|
     |   |~_|~~~~|
     |   -| |    |
============\ # http://KD4E.com
Have an http://ultrafidian.com day!
0
doc
9/16/2010 4:55:22 PM
With patience akin to a cat's, Phillip Jones, on 9/15/2010 7:53 PM typed:
> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>> Rich Gray<rbg_smthorn@graysmail.com> wrote:
>>> Robert Kaiser wrote:
>>>> ... SeaMonkey 2.0.8 is now available for Windows, Mac, and Linux as
>>>> a
>>>> free download from www.seamonkey-project.org.
>>>> ...
>>>
>>> Working fine on Mac (so far...) Sorry, no time to smoketest.
>>>
>>> Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.1.13)
>>> Gecko/20100914 SeaMonkey/2.0.8
>>
>> Update also working on Tiger and Leopard.
>>
>> Lee
> I'm passing on this due to the new sanitizer Code I will continue
> passing it up until its removed or someone comes up with a way to bypass
> it. No one has the right to babysit me and tell me what I can do. I've
> been using Netscape Since 3.0.1a Gold. So I've been around the block
> quite a few years.
>
Erm, I just updated my 2.0.6 to 2.0.8 via Help | Check for Updates, and I
can't see anything removed from the UA at this point:

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.13) Gecko/20100914
Lightning/1.0b1 Mnenhy/0.8.3 SeaMonkey/2.0.8

I'm making the assumption that the sanitizer code to which you refer regards
the removal of many items in the UserAgent string.  These changes aren't
scheduled to occur until SM 2.1, IIRC.

If I'm in error, and the code to which you refer is some other component of
SM, I'd certainly like to know the details.


My two whiskers' worth --
-- 
      /\ /\                     | "For push of nose,
      ^o o^    D.K. "Cat" Kraft |  for perseverance,
      ->T<-                     |  there is nothing to beat a cat."
        ~      Lynnwood, WA     |
___oOO___OOo___                |                      -- Emily Carr
0
D
9/16/2010 5:05:39 PM
On 10-09-16 8:29 AM, Daniel wrote:
> Phillip Jones wrote:
>> I'm passing on this due to the new sanitizer Code I will continue
>> passing it up until its removed or someone comes up with a way to bypass
>> it. No one has the right to babysit me and tell me what I can do. I've
>> been using Netscape Since 3.0.1a Gold. So I've been around the block
>> quite a few years.
>
> Sorry, Phillip, refresh my mind. What do you mean by "sanitizer Code"?

He never gave Ed a bug number either.
<http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.seamonkey/msg/1f6877a8cf4104f7>

Phillip has a tendency to spread misinformation.
<http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.seamonkey/msg/957f0feadc3b2887>
<http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.seamonkey/msg/7d0d632d5f630d45>
<http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.seamonkey/msg/a5143bd71ff52728>

-- 
Chris Ilias <http://ilias.ca>
List-owner: support-firefox, support-thunderbird, test-multimedia
0
Chris
9/16/2010 8:04:37 PM
On 9/16/2010 4:04 PM Chris Ilias wrote:
> On 10-09-16 8:29 AM, Daniel wrote:
>> Phillip Jones wrote:
>>> I'm passing on this due to the new sanitizer Code I will continue
>>> passing it up until its removed or someone comes up with a way to bypass
>>> it. No one has the right to babysit me and tell me what I can do. I've
>>> been using Netscape Since 3.0.1a Gold. So I've been around the block
>>> quite a few years.
>>
>> Sorry, Phillip, refresh my mind. What do you mean by "sanitizer Code"?
>
> He never gave Ed a bug number either.
> <http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.seamonkey/msg/1f6877a8cf4104f7>
>
>
> Phillip has a tendency to spread misinformation.
> <http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.seamonkey/msg/957f0feadc3b2887>
>
> <http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.seamonkey/msg/7d0d632d5f630d45>
>
> <http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.seamonkey/msg/a5143bd71ff52728>
>
>

Perhaps he was 'around the block' too many times?

0
NoAuthUser
9/16/2010 8:25:31 PM
Daniel wrote:
> Phillip Jones wrote:
>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>>> Rich Gray<rbg_smthorn@graysmail.com>  wrote:
>>>> Robert Kaiser wrote:
>>>>> ... SeaMonkey 2.0.8 is now available for Windows, Mac, and Linux as
>>>>> a
>>>>> free download from www.seamonkey-project.org.
>>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> Working fine on Mac (so far...) Sorry, no time to smoketest.
>>>>
>>>> Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.1.13)
>>>> Gecko/20100914 SeaMonkey/2.0.8
>>>
>>> Update also working on Tiger and Leopard.
>>>
>>> Lee
>> I'm passing on this due to the new sanitizer Code I will continue
>> passing it up until its removed or someone comes up with a way to bypass
>> it. No one has the right to babysit me and tell me what I can do. I've
>> been using Netscape Since 3.0.1a Gold. So I've been around the block
>> quite a few years.
>>
>
> Sorry, Phillip, refresh my mind. What do you mean by "sanitizer Code"?
>
> Daniel
Starting with  2.07  they built in a sanitizer code into SM in which I 
you belong to a HTML Group that allows sound and movies within the post. 
you can go to insert >html and insert it. but after its posted its 
removed by default. The developer types are becoming paranoid and almost 
dictatorial like with what they want to allow you to do with your own 
computer. If people on the other end in the intended group want to see 
it or not its their discretion to open it or not.

Were it not for that ability to test in a Group sound code recently, I 
would not have figured out  a way to insert properly in my website. So 
until its turned off I am sticking with 2.0.6 untill it physically won't 
work. Oh its in the latest version of TB as well.

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/16/2010 9:57:03 PM
Chris Ilias wrote:
> On 10-09-16 8:29 AM, Daniel wrote:
>> Phillip Jones wrote:
>>> I'm passing on this due to the new sanitizer Code I will continue
>>> passing it up until its removed or someone comes up with a way to bypass
>>> it. No one has the right to babysit me and tell me what I can do. I've
>>> been using Netscape Since 3.0.1a Gold. So I've been around the block
>>> quite a few years.
>>
>> Sorry, Phillip, refresh my mind. What do you mean by "sanitizer Code"?
>
> He never gave Ed a bug number either.
> <http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.seamonkey/msg/1f6877a8cf4104f7>
>
> Phillip has a tendency to spread misinformation.
> <http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.seamonkey/msg/957f0feadc3b2887>
> <http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.seamonkey/msg/7d0d632d5f630d45>
> <http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.seamonkey/msg/a5143bd71ff52728>
>

Ty it yourself  heck I can even make a screen shot of the  the code if I 
open zip file I created of 2.0.7

look for this when you do about config

mailnews.display.html_sanitizer.allowed.tags

html head title body p br div(lang,title) h1 h2 h3 h4 h5 h6 
ul(type,compact) ol(type,compact,start) li(type,value) dl dt dd 
blockquote(type,cite) pre noscript noframes strong em sub sup 
span(lang,title) acronym(title) abbr(title) del(title,cite,datetime) 
ins(title,cite,datetime) q(cite) a(href,name,title) 
img(alt,title,longdesc,src) base(href) area(alt) applet(alt) object(alt) 
var samp dfn address kbd code cite s strike tt b i table(align) caption 
tr(align,valign) td(rowspan,colspan,align,valign) 
th(rowspan,colspan,align,valign) wbr

I'm tired of people especially Chris That I am some type of Crackpot.

Check for this in the about config

  this was in version 2.0.7

JoeS had a bug in on in TB and SM and I've commented on both.  Go look 
for the bugs yourself.  If you think I have fuse about ready to Blow - 
you not just kidding.

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/16/2010 10:06:44 PM
On 9/16/10 2:57 PM, Phillip Jones wrote:
> Daniel wrote:
>> Phillip Jones wrote:
>>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>>>> Rich Gray<rbg_smthorn@graysmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>> Robert Kaiser wrote:
>>>>>> ... SeaMonkey 2.0.8 is now available for Windows, Mac, and Linux as
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> free download from www.seamonkey-project.org.
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> Working fine on Mac (so far...) Sorry, no time to smoketest.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.1.13)
>>>>> Gecko/20100914 SeaMonkey/2.0.8
>>>>
>>>> Update also working on Tiger and Leopard.
>>>>
>>>> Lee
>>> I'm passing on this due to the new sanitizer Code I will continue
>>> passing it up until its removed or someone comes up with a way to bypass
>>> it. No one has the right to babysit me and tell me what I can do. I've
>>> been using Netscape Since 3.0.1a Gold. So I've been around the block
>>> quite a few years.
>>>
>>
>> Sorry, Phillip, refresh my mind. What do you mean by "sanitizer Code"?
>>
>> Daniel
> Starting with  2.07  they built in a sanitizer code into SM in which I 
> you belong to a HTML Group that allows sound and movies within the post. 
> you can go to insert >html and insert it. but after its posted its 
> removed by default. The developer types are becoming paranoid and almost 
> dictatorial like with what they want to allow you to do with your own 
> computer. If people on the other end in the intended group want to see 
> it or not its their discretion to open it or not.
> 
> Were it not for that ability to test in a Group sound code recently, I 
> would not have figured out  a way to insert properly in my website. So 
> until its turned off I am sticking with 2.0.6 untill it physically won't 
> work. Oh its in the latest version of TB as well.
> 

Are you sure this problem is not caused by filters in the newsgroup
servers?

Audio and video files embedded in messages travel the Internet as
attachments, not inline.  They become inline when received and merged by
your E-mail or news client (e.g., Thunderbird, SeaMonkey).  Furthermore,
they travel the Internet as binary attachments.  Many newsgroup servers
strip away binary attachments.

-- 

David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>.

Anyone who thinks government owns a monopoly on inefficient, obstructive
bureaucracy has obviously never worked for a large corporation.
© 1997 by David E. Ross
0
David
9/16/2010 10:23:04 PM
David E. Ross wrote:
> On 9/16/10 2:57 PM, Phillip Jones wrote:
>> Daniel wrote:
>>> Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>>>>> Rich Gray<rbg_smthorn@graysmail.com>   wrote:
>>>>>> Robert Kaiser wrote:
>>>>>>> ... SeaMonkey 2.0.8 is now available for Windows, Mac, and Linux as
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> free download from www.seamonkey-project.org.
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Working fine on Mac (so far...) Sorry, no time to smoketest.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.1.13)
>>>>>> Gecko/20100914 SeaMonkey/2.0.8
>>>>>
>>>>> Update also working on Tiger and Leopard.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lee
>>>> I'm passing on this due to the new sanitizer Code I will continue
>>>> passing it up until its removed or someone comes up with a way to bypass
>>>> it. No one has the right to babysit me and tell me what I can do. I've
>>>> been using Netscape Since 3.0.1a Gold. So I've been around the block
>>>> quite a few years.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry, Phillip, refresh my mind. What do you mean by "sanitizer Code"?
>>>
>>> Daniel
>> Starting with  2.07  they built in a sanitizer code into SM in which I
>> you belong to a HTML Group that allows sound and movies within the post.
>> you can go to insert>html and insert it. but after its posted its
>> removed by default. The developer types are becoming paranoid and almost
>> dictatorial like with what they want to allow you to do with your own
>> computer. If people on the other end in the intended group want to see
>> it or not its their discretion to open it or not.
>>
>> Were it not for that ability to test in a Group sound code recently, I
>> would not have figured out  a way to insert properly in my website. So
>> until its turned off I am sticking with 2.0.6 untill it physically won't
>> work. Oh its in the latest version of TB as well.
>>
>
> Are you sure this problem is not caused by filters in the newsgroup
> servers?
>
> Audio and video files embedded in messages travel the Internet as
> attachments, not inline.  They become inline when received and merged by
> your E-mail or news client (e.g., Thunderbird, SeaMonkey).  Furthermore,
> they travel the Internet as binary attachments.  Many newsgroup servers
> strip away binary attachments.
>
here is the actual code when you open about config:

mailnews.display.html_sanitizer.allowed.tags

html head title body p br div(lang,title) h1 h2 h3 h4 h5 h6 
ul(type,compact) ol(type,compact,start) li(type,value) dl dt dd 
blockquote(type,cite) pre noscript noframes strong em sub sup 
span(lang,title) acronym(title) abbr(title) del(title,cite,datetime) 
ins(title,cite,datetime) q(cite) a(href,name,title) 
img(alt,title,longdesc,src) base(href) area(alt) applet(alt) object(alt) 
var samp dfn address kbd code cite s strike tt b i table(align) caption 
tr(align,valign) td(rowspan,colspan,align,valign) 
th(rowspan,colspan,align,valign) wbr

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/16/2010 10:41:47 PM
On 10-09-16 6:06 PM, Phillip Jones wrote:
> Chris Ilias wrote:
>> On 10-09-16 8:29 AM, Daniel wrote:
>> He never gave Ed a bug number either.
>> <http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.seamonkey/msg/1f6877a8cf4104f7>
>>
>> Phillip has a tendency to spread misinformation.
>> <http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.seamonkey/msg/957f0feadc3b2887>
>> <http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.seamonkey/msg/7d0d632d5f630d45>
>> <http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.seamonkey/msg/a5143bd71ff52728>
>
> Ty it yourself heck I can even make a screen shot of the the code if I
> open zip file I created of 2.0.7
>
> look for this when you do about config
>
> mailnews.display.html_sanitizer.allowed.tags
>
> html head title body p br div(lang,title) h1 h2 h3 h4 h5 h6
> ul(type,compact) ol(type,compact,start) li(type,value) dl dt dd
> blockquote(type,cite) pre noscript noframes strong em sub sup
> span(lang,title) acronym(title) abbr(title) del(title,cite,datetime)
> ins(title,cite,datetime) q(cite) a(href,name,title)
> img(alt,title,longdesc,src) base(href) area(alt) applet(alt) object(alt)
> var samp dfn address kbd code cite s strike tt b i table(align) caption
> tr(align,valign) td(rowspan,colspan,align,valign)
> th(rowspan,colspan,align,valign) wbr
>
> I'm tired of people especially Chris That I am some type of Crackpot.
>
> Check for this in the about config
>
> this was in version 2.0.7
>
> JoeS had a bug in on in TB and SM and I've commented on both. Go look
> for the bugs yourself. If you think I have fuse about ready to Blow -
> you not just kidding.

There is no pref called |mailnews.display.html_sanitizer.allowed.tags|. 
I assume you're referring to 
|mailnews.display.html_sanitizer.allowed_tags|. That pref has been part 
of SeaMonkey/Thunderbird/Mozilla/Netscape for years. It allows you to 
customize which tags are allowed when you set View-->Message_Body_As to 
"Simple HTML".
See <http://seamonkey.ilias.ca/mailnewsfaq/ChangeSimpleHTML>,
<http://ilias.ca/archive/netscape/mailnewsfaq/ChangeSimpleHTML.html>.

I didn't call you a crackpot. I said that you have a "tendency to spread 
misinformation". If you don't like it, back up your claims with links.

-- 
Chris Ilias <http://ilias.ca>
List-owner: support-firefox, support-thunderbird, test-multimedia
0
Chris
9/16/2010 11:04:10 PM
Chris Ilias wrote:
> On 10-09-16 6:06 PM, Phillip Jones wrote:
>> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>> On 10-09-16 8:29 AM, Daniel wrote:
>>> He never gave Ed a bug number either.
>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.seamonkey/msg/1f6877a8cf4104f7>
>>>
>>> Phillip has a tendency to spread misinformation.
>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.seamonkey/msg/957f0feadc3b2887>
>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.seamonkey/msg/7d0d632d5f630d45>
>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.seamonkey/msg/a5143bd71ff52728>
>>
>> Ty it yourself heck I can even make a screen shot of the the code if I
>> open zip file I created of 2.0.7
>>
>> look for this when you do about config
>>
>> mailnews.display.html_sanitizer.allowed.tags
>>
>> html head title body p br div(lang,title) h1 h2 h3 h4 h5 h6
>> ul(type,compact) ol(type,compact,start) li(type,value) dl dt dd
>> blockquote(type,cite) pre noscript noframes strong em sub sup
>> span(lang,title) acronym(title) abbr(title) del(title,cite,datetime)
>> ins(title,cite,datetime) q(cite) a(href,name,title)
>> img(alt,title,longdesc,src) base(href) area(alt) applet(alt) object(alt)
>> var samp dfn address kbd code cite s strike tt b i table(align) caption
>> tr(align,valign) td(rowspan,colspan,align,valign)
>> th(rowspan,colspan,align,valign) wbr
>>
>> I'm tired of people especially Chris That I am some type of Crackpot.
>>
>> Check for this in the about config
>>
>> this was in version 2.0.7
>>
>> JoeS had a bug in on in TB and SM and I've commented on both. Go look
>> for the bugs yourself. If you think I have fuse about ready to Blow -
>> you not just kidding.
>
> There is no pref called |mailnews.display.html_sanitizer.allowed.tags|.
> I assume you're referring to
> |mailnews.display.html_sanitizer.allowed_tags|. That pref has been part
> of SeaMonkey/Thunderbird/Mozilla/Netscape for years. It allows you to
> customize which tags are allowed when you set View-->Message_Body_As to
> "Simple HTML".
> See<http://seamonkey.ilias.ca/mailnewsfaq/ChangeSimpleHTML>,
> <http://ilias.ca/archive/netscape/mailnewsfaq/ChangeSimpleHTML.html>.
>
> I didn't call you a crackpot. I said that you have a "tendency to spread
> misinformation". If you don't like it, back up your claims with links.
>
The same code is not in 2.0.6 and when I tried to send a test sound file 
in a Newsgroup that allows such. I tried several times. Then I read a a 
post about this sanitation code and what it was doing  and looked for 
there it is

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/16/2010 11:14:03 PM
On 10-09-16 7:14 PM, Phillip Jones wrote:
> Chris Ilias wrote:
>> On 10-09-16 6:06 PM, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>
>>> Ty it yourself heck I can even make a screen shot of the the code if I
>>> open zip file I created of 2.0.7
>>>
>>> look for this when you do about config
>>>
>>> mailnews.display.html_sanitizer.allowed.tags
>>>
>>> html head title body p br div(lang,title) h1 h2 h3 h4 h5 h6
>>> ul(type,compact) ol(type,compact,start) li(type,value) dl dt dd
>>> blockquote(type,cite) pre noscript noframes strong em sub sup
>>> span(lang,title) acronym(title) abbr(title) del(title,cite,datetime)
>>> ins(title,cite,datetime) q(cite) a(href,name,title)
>>> img(alt,title,longdesc,src) base(href) area(alt) applet(alt) object(alt)
>>> var samp dfn address kbd code cite s strike tt b i table(align) caption
>>> tr(align,valign) td(rowspan,colspan,align,valign)
>>> th(rowspan,colspan,align,valign) wbr
>>>
>>> I'm tired of people especially Chris That I am some type of Crackpot.
>>>
>>> Check for this in the about config
>>>
>>> this was in version 2.0.7
>>>
>>> JoeS had a bug in on in TB and SM and I've commented on both. Go look
>>> for the bugs yourself. If you think I have fuse about ready to Blow -
>>> you not just kidding.
>>
>> There is no pref called |mailnews.display.html_sanitizer.allowed.tags|.
>> I assume you're referring to
>> |mailnews.display.html_sanitizer.allowed_tags|. That pref has been part
>> of SeaMonkey/Thunderbird/Mozilla/Netscape for years. It allows you to
>> customize which tags are allowed when you set View-->Message_Body_As to
>> "Simple HTML".
>> See<http://seamonkey.ilias.ca/mailnewsfaq/ChangeSimpleHTML>,
>> <http://ilias.ca/archive/netscape/mailnewsfaq/ChangeSimpleHTML.html>.
>>
>> I didn't call you a crackpot. I said that you have a "tendency to spread
>> misinformation". If you don't like it, back up your claims with links.
>
> The same code is not in 2.0.6

Really? Here's a screencast: <http://screencast.com/t/ZGNiMTNkO>

> and when I tried to send a test sound file
> in a Newsgroup that allows such. I tried several times. Then I read a a
> post about this sanitation code and what it was doing and looked for
> there it is

Set View-->Message_Body_As to "Original HTML".

-- 
Chris Ilias <http://ilias.ca>
List-owner: support-firefox, support-thunderbird, test-multimedia
0
Chris
9/16/2010 11:45:13 PM
Chris Ilias wrote:
> On 10-09-16 7:14 PM, Phillip Jones wrote:
>> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>> On 10-09-16 6:06 PM, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Ty it yourself heck I can even make a screen shot of the the code if I
>>>> open zip file I created of 2.0.7
>>>>
>>>> look for this when you do about config
>>>>
>>>> mailnews.display.html_sanitizer.allowed.tags
>>>>
>>>> html head title body p br div(lang,title) h1 h2 h3 h4 h5 h6
>>>> ul(type,compact) ol(type,compact,start) li(type,value) dl dt dd
>>>> blockquote(type,cite) pre noscript noframes strong em sub sup
>>>> span(lang,title) acronym(title) abbr(title) del(title,cite,datetime)
>>>> ins(title,cite,datetime) q(cite) a(href,name,title)
>>>> img(alt,title,longdesc,src) base(href) area(alt) applet(alt) object(alt)
>>>> var samp dfn address kbd code cite s strike tt b i table(align) caption
>>>> tr(align,valign) td(rowspan,colspan,align,valign)
>>>> th(rowspan,colspan,align,valign) wbr
>>>>
>>>> I'm tired of people especially Chris That I am some type of Crackpot.
>>>>
>>>> Check for this in the about config
>>>>
>>>> this was in version 2.0.7
>>>>
>>>> JoeS had a bug in on in TB and SM and I've commented on both. Go look
>>>> for the bugs yourself. If you think I have fuse about ready to Blow -
>>>> you not just kidding.
>>>
>>> There is no pref called |mailnews.display.html_sanitizer.allowed.tags|.
>>> I assume you're referring to
>>> |mailnews.display.html_sanitizer.allowed_tags|. That pref has been part
>>> of SeaMonkey/Thunderbird/Mozilla/Netscape for years. It allows you to
>>> customize which tags are allowed when you set View-->Message_Body_As to
>>> "Simple HTML".
>>> See<http://seamonkey.ilias.ca/mailnewsfaq/ChangeSimpleHTML>,
>>> <http://ilias.ca/archive/netscape/mailnewsfaq/ChangeSimpleHTML.html>.
>>>
>>> I didn't call you a crackpot. I said that you have a "tendency to spread
>>> misinformation". If you don't like it, back up your claims with links.
>>
>> The same code is not in 2.0.6
>
> Really? Here's a screencast:<http://screencast.com/t/ZGNiMTNkO>
>
>> and when I tried to send a test sound file
>> in a Newsgroup that allows such. I tried several times. Then I read a a
>> post about this sanitation code and what it was doing and looked for
>> there it is
>
> Set View-->Message_Body_As to "Original HTML".
>
I keep that set to keep as set to original html.  all the time.
  I'll go to Bugzilla and see if I can locate the bugs I commented on 
the I will post the bug number here.

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/17/2010 12:38:44 AM
On 9/16/10 3:41 PM, Phillip Jones wrote:
> David E. Ross wrote:
>> On 9/16/10 2:57 PM, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>> Daniel wrote:
>>>> Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>>>>>> Rich Gray<rbg_smthorn@graysmail.com>   wrote:
>>>>>>> Robert Kaiser wrote:
>>>>>>>> ... SeaMonkey 2.0.8 is now available for Windows, Mac, and Linux as
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> free download from www.seamonkey-project.org.
>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Working fine on Mac (so far...) Sorry, no time to smoketest.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.1.13)
>>>>>>> Gecko/20100914 SeaMonkey/2.0.8
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Update also working on Tiger and Leopard.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lee
>>>>> I'm passing on this due to the new sanitizer Code I will continue
>>>>> passing it up until its removed or someone comes up with a way to bypass
>>>>> it. No one has the right to babysit me and tell me what I can do. I've
>>>>> been using Netscape Since 3.0.1a Gold. So I've been around the block
>>>>> quite a few years.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, Phillip, refresh my mind. What do you mean by "sanitizer Code"?
>>>>
>>>> Daniel
>>> Starting with  2.07  they built in a sanitizer code into SM in which I
>>> you belong to a HTML Group that allows sound and movies within the post.
>>> you can go to insert>html and insert it. but after its posted its
>>> removed by default. The developer types are becoming paranoid and almost
>>> dictatorial like with what they want to allow you to do with your own
>>> computer. If people on the other end in the intended group want to see
>>> it or not its their discretion to open it or not.
>>>
>>> Were it not for that ability to test in a Group sound code recently, I
>>> would not have figured out  a way to insert properly in my website. So
>>> until its turned off I am sticking with 2.0.6 untill it physically won't
>>> work. Oh its in the latest version of TB as well.
>>>
>>
>> Are you sure this problem is not caused by filters in the newsgroup
>> servers?
>>
>> Audio and video files embedded in messages travel the Internet as
>> attachments, not inline.  They become inline when received and merged by
>> your E-mail or news client (e.g., Thunderbird, SeaMonkey).  Furthermore,
>> they travel the Internet as binary attachments.  Many newsgroup servers
>> strip away binary attachments.
>>
> here is the actual code when you open about config:
> 
> mailnews.display.html_sanitizer.allowed.tags
> 
> html head title body p br div(lang,title) h1 h2 h3 h4 h5 h6 
> ul(type,compact) ol(type,compact,start) li(type,value) dl dt dd 
> blockquote(type,cite) pre noscript noframes strong em sub sup 
> span(lang,title) acronym(title) abbr(title) del(title,cite,datetime) 
> ins(title,cite,datetime) q(cite) a(href,name,title) 
> img(alt,title,longdesc,src) base(href) area(alt) applet(alt) object(alt) 
> var samp dfn address kbd code cite s strike tt b i table(align) caption 
> tr(align,valign) td(rowspan,colspan,align,valign) 
> th(rowspan,colspan,align,valign) wbr
> 

That is NOT code.  That is merely a preference variable and its
value-string.

Have you analyzed the executable code in SeaMonkey or Thunderbird to see
what it does with the preference variable
mailnews.display.html_sanitizer.allowed.tags?

From <http://www.bucksch.org/1/projects/mozilla/108153/>:
> The idea of the HTML Sanitizer is to reduce incoming HTML 
> to only the harmless structural markup. This reduces the amount
> of code that could be exploited for security/privacy attacks 
> significantly. Thus, we get the advantages of HTML (rich 
> information) without the disadvantages (security/privacy risk,
> sender-defined layout).  

From <http://kb.mozillazine.org/Mail_and_news_settings>:
> mailnews . display.html_sanitizer . allowed_tags 
> If they're not listed [in the value-string, then] 
> View -> Message Body as -> Original HTML strips them 

It's quite simple.  Just do not set [View > Message Body > Original HTML].

-- 

David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>.

Anyone who thinks government owns a monopoly on inefficient, obstructive
bureaucracy has obviously never worked for a large corporation.
© 1997 by David E. Ross
0
David
9/17/2010 3:00:25 AM
David E. Ross wrote:
> On 9/16/10 3:41 PM, Phillip Jones wrote:
>> David E. Ross wrote:
>>> On 9/16/10 2:57 PM, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>> Daniel wrote:
>>>>> Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>>>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>>>>>>> Rich Gray<rbg_smthorn@graysmail.com>    wrote:
>>>>>>>> Robert Kaiser wrote:
>>>>>>>>> ... SeaMonkey 2.0.8 is now available for Windows, Mac, and Linux as
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> free download from www.seamonkey-project.org.
>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Working fine on Mac (so far...) Sorry, no time to smoketest.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.1.13)
>>>>>>>> Gecko/20100914 SeaMonkey/2.0.8
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Update also working on Tiger and Leopard.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lee
>>>>>> I'm passing on this due to the new sanitizer Code I will continue
>>>>>> passing it up until its removed or someone comes up with a way to bypass
>>>>>> it. No one has the right to babysit me and tell me what I can do. I've
>>>>>> been using Netscape Since 3.0.1a Gold. So I've been around the block
>>>>>> quite a few years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry, Phillip, refresh my mind. What do you mean by "sanitizer Code"?
>>>>>
>>>>> Daniel
>>>> Starting with  2.07  they built in a sanitizer code into SM in which I
>>>> you belong to a HTML Group that allows sound and movies within the post.
>>>> you can go to insert>html and insert it. but after its posted its
>>>> removed by default. The developer types are becoming paranoid and almost
>>>> dictatorial like with what they want to allow you to do with your own
>>>> computer. If people on the other end in the intended group want to see
>>>> it or not its their discretion to open it or not.
>>>>
>>>> Were it not for that ability to test in a Group sound code recently, I
>>>> would not have figured out  a way to insert properly in my website. So
>>>> until its turned off I am sticking with 2.0.6 untill it physically won't
>>>> work. Oh its in the latest version of TB as well.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Are you sure this problem is not caused by filters in the newsgroup
>>> servers?
>>>
>>> Audio and video files embedded in messages travel the Internet as
>>> attachments, not inline.  They become inline when received and merged by
>>> your E-mail or news client (e.g., Thunderbird, SeaMonkey).  Furthermore,
>>> they travel the Internet as binary attachments.  Many newsgroup servers
>>> strip away binary attachments.
>>>
>> here is the actual code when you open about config:
>>
>> mailnews.display.html_sanitizer.allowed.tags
>>
>> html head title body p br div(lang,title) h1 h2 h3 h4 h5 h6
>> ul(type,compact) ol(type,compact,start) li(type,value) dl dt dd
>> blockquote(type,cite) pre noscript noframes strong em sub sup
>> span(lang,title) acronym(title) abbr(title) del(title,cite,datetime)
>> ins(title,cite,datetime) q(cite) a(href,name,title)
>> img(alt,title,longdesc,src) base(href) area(alt) applet(alt) object(alt)
>> var samp dfn address kbd code cite s strike tt b i table(align) caption
>> tr(align,valign) td(rowspan,colspan,align,valign)
>> th(rowspan,colspan,align,valign) wbr
>>
>
> That is NOT code.  That is merely a preference variable and its
> value-string.
>
> Have you analyzed the executable code in SeaMonkey or Thunderbird to see
> what it does with the preference variable
> mailnews.display.html_sanitizer.allowed.tags?
>
> From<http://www.bucksch.org/1/projects/mozilla/108153/>:
>> The idea of the HTML Sanitizer is to reduce incoming HTML
>> to only the harmless structural markup. This reduces the amount
>> of code that could be exploited for security/privacy attacks
>> significantly. Thus, we get the advantages of HTML (rich
>> information) without the disadvantages (security/privacy risk,
>> sender-defined layout).
>
> From<http://kb.mozillazine.org/Mail_and_news_settings>:
>> mailnews . display.html_sanitizer . allowed_tags
>> If they're not listed [in the value-string, then]
>> View ->  Message Body as ->  Original HTML strips them
>
> It's quite simple.  Just do not set [View>  Message Body>  Original HTML].
>
I'm still looking for bug on this problem but can't remember the wording 
of the bug.

By the way I just tried 2.0.8 think maybe its a bug. But  the problem 
still exist.

what ever you type in in the Insert > HTML  is ignored you can type all 
day and the results will be the same. In 2.0.6 and lower what ever you 
type in  insert > HTML  box  will be played.

I've even stated up 2.0.8 in safe mode and still there.

So I'm sticking with 2.0. I've even set update to check for updated 
extensions but not updated SeaMonkey.

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/17/2010 4:08:37 AM
Phillip Jones wrote:
> Chris Ilias wrote:
>> On 10-09-16 7:14 PM, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>>> On 10-09-16 6:06 PM, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Ty it yourself heck I can even make a screen shot of the the code if I
>>>>> open zip file I created of 2.0.7
>>>>>
>>>>> look for this when you do about config
>>>>>
>>>>> mailnews.display.html_sanitizer.allowed.tags
>>>>>
>>>>> html head title body p br div(lang,title) h1 h2 h3 h4 h5 h6
>>>>> ul(type,compact) ol(type,compact,start) li(type,value) dl dt dd
>>>>> blockquote(type,cite) pre noscript noframes strong em sub sup
>>>>> span(lang,title) acronym(title) abbr(title) del(title,cite,datetime)
>>>>> ins(title,cite,datetime) q(cite) a(href,name,title)
>>>>> img(alt,title,longdesc,src) base(href) area(alt) applet(alt)
>>>>> object(alt)
>>>>> var samp dfn address kbd code cite s strike tt b i table(align)
>>>>> caption
>>>>> tr(align,valign) td(rowspan,colspan,align,valign)
>>>>> th(rowspan,colspan,align,valign) wbr
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm tired of people especially Chris That I am some type of Crackpot.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check for this in the about config
>>>>>
>>>>> this was in version 2.0.7
>>>>>
>>>>> JoeS had a bug in on in TB and SM and I've commented on both. Go look
>>>>> for the bugs yourself. If you think I have fuse about ready to Blow -
>>>>> you not just kidding.
>>>>
>>>> There is no pref called |mailnews.display.html_sanitizer.allowed.tags|.
>>>> I assume you're referring to
>>>> |mailnews.display.html_sanitizer.allowed_tags|. That pref has been part
>>>> of SeaMonkey/Thunderbird/Mozilla/Netscape for years. It allows you to
>>>> customize which tags are allowed when you set View-->Message_Body_As to
>>>> "Simple HTML".
>>>> See<http://seamonkey.ilias.ca/mailnewsfaq/ChangeSimpleHTML>,
>>>> <http://ilias.ca/archive/netscape/mailnewsfaq/ChangeSimpleHTML.html>.
>>>>
>>>> I didn't call you a crackpot. I said that you have a "tendency to
>>>> spread
>>>> misinformation". If you don't like it, back up your claims with links.
>>>
>>> The same code is not in 2.0.6
>>
>> Really? Here's a screencast:<http://screencast.com/t/ZGNiMTNkO>
>>
>>> and when I tried to send a test sound file
>>> in a Newsgroup that allows such. I tried several times. Then I read a a
>>> post about this sanitation code and what it was doing and looked for
>>> there it is
>>
>> Set View-->Message_Body_As to "Original HTML".
>>
> I keep that set to keep as set to original html. all the time.
> I'll go to Bugzilla and see if I can locate the bugs I commented on the
> I will post the bug number here.
>

Oh Phillip, don't you just love it!  No Phillip, you're 
not dumb, you're not stupid, or you're not an idiot. 
You know what you're talking about, but the so-called 
experts sure don't.

To everyone else: Compose a new message, in html.  Now, 
click on Insert, HTML, and put the following script in 
the box:

<iframe marginheight="0" marginwidth="0"
src="http://newmail.monsterserve.com/keepout/movies/zip.wav"
  type="audio/x-mpeg" frameborder="0" height="16" 
width="144"></iframe>


then click on the insert button, save the message, then 
go into your drafts folder, click on the message, then 
click on View, Message Source, and tell me what 
happened to the html that you just put in.

Phillip, I think everyone owes you an apology, 
especially those so-called experts.

Oh, by the way, in order to see what Phillip is talking 
about, make sure you're using the newest seamonkey or 
thunderbird for this testing.
0
Ubiquity
9/17/2010 5:35:17 AM
On Thu, 16 Sep 2010, Robert Kaiser wrote:

> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 00:17:16 +0200
> From: Robert Kaiser <kairo@kairo.at>
> To: support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org
> Newsgroups: mozilla.dev.apps.seamonkey, mozilla.support.seamonkey,
>     mozilla.dev.planning, netscape.public.mozilla.seamonkey,
>     mozilla.dev.l10n
> Followup-To: mozilla.support.seamonkey
> Subject: SeaMonkey 2.0.8 Available
> 
> The Mozilla community discovered a crash some of our users have been seeing 
> at startup after updates to our previous releases. To fix that issue, 
> SeaMonkey 2.0.8 is now available for Windows, Mac, and Linux as a free 
> download from www.seamonkey-project.org.
>
> We strongly recommend that all SeaMonkey and old suite users upgrade to this 
> latest release. If you already have SeaMonkey 2.0, you will receive an 
> automated update notification within 24 to 48 hours. This update can also be 
> applied manually by selecting "Check for Updates..." from the Help menu.
>
> For a list of changes and more information, please review the SeaMonkey 2.0.8 
> Release Notes.
>
> Note: All users of the outdated SeaMonkey 1.x, Mozilla or Netscape suites are 
> encouraged to upgrade to SeaMonkey 2.0 by downloading it from 
> www.seamonkey-project.org.
>
> Full news article:
> http://www.seamonkey-project.org/news#2010-09-15
>
> Downloads for all available platforms and languages:
> http://www.seamonkey-project.org/releases/
>
> Release notes:
> http://www.seamonkey-project.org/releases/seamonkey2.0.8
>
> System Requirements:
> http://www.seamonkey-project.org/doc/2.0/system-requirements
>
> Robert Kaiser
> SeaMonkey project coordinator
>

Is there any prospect of it being released as a .deb file (especially in 
the EN-GB version)?

I am currently using iceape
("Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U;
Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.14eol) Gecko/20070505 Iceape/1.0.9 
(Debian-1.0.13~pre080614i-0etch1)")

as the latest version available for Debian 5.

I have previously found the .tar.gz files, simply too difficult to deal 
with, and am able to use only the package management
(eg, dpkg - i <package name> )
for installing and updating files.

Thank you in anticipation.

--
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
...............

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
  you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
   Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
   "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
   A Trilogy In Four Parts",
   written by Douglas Adams,
   published by Pan Books, 1992

.....................................................
0
Bret
9/17/2010 6:29:38 AM
Ubiquity wrote:
> Phillip Jones wrote:
>> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>> On 10-09-16 7:14 PM, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>>>> On 10-09-16 6:06 PM, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ty it yourself heck I can even make a screen shot of the the code
>>>>>> if I
>>>>>> open zip file I created of 2.0.7
>>>>>>
>>>>>> look for this when you do about config
>>>>>>
>>>>>> mailnews.display.html_sanitizer.allowed.tags
>>>>>>
>>>>>> html head title body p br div(lang,title) h1 h2 h3 h4 h5 h6
>>>>>> ul(type,compact) ol(type,compact,start) li(type,value) dl dt dd
>>>>>> blockquote(type,cite) pre noscript noframes strong em sub sup
>>>>>> span(lang,title) acronym(title) abbr(title) del(title,cite,datetime)
>>>>>> ins(title,cite,datetime) q(cite) a(href,name,title)
>>>>>> img(alt,title,longdesc,src) base(href) area(alt) applet(alt)
>>>>>> object(alt)
>>>>>> var samp dfn address kbd code cite s strike tt b i table(align)
>>>>>> caption
>>>>>> tr(align,valign) td(rowspan,colspan,align,valign)
>>>>>> th(rowspan,colspan,align,valign) wbr
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm tired of people especially Chris That I am some type of Crackpot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check for this in the about config
>>>>>>
>>>>>> this was in version 2.0.7
>>>>>>
>>>>>> JoeS had a bug in on in TB and SM and I've commented on both. Go look
>>>>>> for the bugs yourself. If you think I have fuse about ready to Blow -
>>>>>> you not just kidding.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no pref called
>>>>> |mailnews.display.html_sanitizer.allowed.tags|.
>>>>> I assume you're referring to
>>>>> |mailnews.display.html_sanitizer.allowed_tags|. That pref has been
>>>>> part
>>>>> of SeaMonkey/Thunderbird/Mozilla/Netscape for years. It allows you to
>>>>> customize which tags are allowed when you set
>>>>> View-->Message_Body_As to
>>>>> "Simple HTML".
>>>>> See<http://seamonkey.ilias.ca/mailnewsfaq/ChangeSimpleHTML>,
>>>>> <http://ilias.ca/archive/netscape/mailnewsfaq/ChangeSimpleHTML.html>.
>>>>>
>>>>> I didn't call you a crackpot. I said that you have a "tendency to
>>>>> spread
>>>>> misinformation". If you don't like it, back up your claims with links.
>>>>
>>>> The same code is not in 2.0.6
>>>
>>> Really? Here's a screencast:<http://screencast.com/t/ZGNiMTNkO>
>>>
>>>> and when I tried to send a test sound file
>>>> in a Newsgroup that allows such. I tried several times. Then I read a a
>>>> post about this sanitation code and what it was doing and looked for
>>>> there it is
>>>
>>> Set View-->Message_Body_As to "Original HTML".
>>>
>> I keep that set to keep as set to original html. all the time.
>> I'll go to Bugzilla and see if I can locate the bugs I commented on the
>> I will post the bug number here.
>>
>
> Oh Phillip, don't you just love it! No Phillip, you're not dumb, you're
> not stupid, or you're not an idiot. You know what you're talking about,
> but the so-called experts sure don't.
>
> To everyone else: Compose a new message, in html. Now, click on Insert,
> HTML, and put the following script in the box:
>
> <iframe marginheight="0" marginwidth="0"
> src="http://newmail.monsterserve.com/keepout/movies/zip.wav"
> type="audio/x-mpeg" frameborder="0" height="16" width="144"></iframe>
>
>
> then click on the insert button, save the message, then go into your
> drafts folder, click on the message, then click on View, Message Source,
> and tell me what happened to the html that you just put in.
>
> Phillip, I think everyone owes you an apology, especially those
> so-called experts.
>
> Oh, by the way, in order to see what Phillip is talking about, make sure
> you're using the newest seamonkey or thunderbird for this testing.


I just tried to embed using the above method in 2.0.7 and it does not work. Works perfectly on my 
laptop using 2.0.6. Regardless of what the code is called, Phillip is right you can no longer 
insert/embed HTML in 2.0.7. Few may use this feature and that is their choice but I too would like a 
choice.
0
M
9/17/2010 8:49:29 AM
M wrote:
> Ubiquity wrote:
>> Phillip Jones wrote:
>>> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>>> On 10-09-16 7:14 PM, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>>> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>>>>> On 10-09-16 6:06 PM, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ty it yourself heck I can even make a screen shot of the the code
>>>>>>> if I
>>>>>>> open zip file I created of 2.0.7
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> look for this when you do about config
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> mailnews.display.html_sanitizer.allowed.tags
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> html head title body p br div(lang,title) h1 h2 h3 h4 h5 h6
>>>>>>> ul(type,compact) ol(type,compact,start) li(type,value) dl dt dd
>>>>>>> blockquote(type,cite) pre noscript noframes strong em sub sup
>>>>>>> span(lang,title) acronym(title) abbr(title) del(title,cite,datetime)
>>>>>>> ins(title,cite,datetime) q(cite) a(href,name,title)
>>>>>>> img(alt,title,longdesc,src) base(href) area(alt) applet(alt)
>>>>>>> object(alt)
>>>>>>> var samp dfn address kbd code cite s strike tt b i table(align)
>>>>>>> caption
>>>>>>> tr(align,valign) td(rowspan,colspan,align,valign)
>>>>>>> th(rowspan,colspan,align,valign) wbr
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm tired of people especially Chris That I am some type of Crackpot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Check for this in the about config
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> this was in version 2.0.7
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> JoeS had a bug in on in TB and SM and I've commented on both. Go look
>>>>>>> for the bugs yourself. If you think I have fuse about ready to Blow -
>>>>>>> you not just kidding.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is no pref called
>>>>>> |mailnews.display.html_sanitizer.allowed.tags|.
>>>>>> I assume you're referring to
>>>>>> |mailnews.display.html_sanitizer.allowed_tags|. That pref has been
>>>>>> part
>>>>>> of SeaMonkey/Thunderbird/Mozilla/Netscape for years. It allows you to
>>>>>> customize which tags are allowed when you set
>>>>>> View-->Message_Body_As to
>>>>>> "Simple HTML".
>>>>>> See<http://seamonkey.ilias.ca/mailnewsfaq/ChangeSimpleHTML>,
>>>>>> <http://ilias.ca/archive/netscape/mailnewsfaq/ChangeSimpleHTML.html>.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I didn't call you a crackpot. I said that you have a "tendency to
>>>>>> spread
>>>>>> misinformation". If you don't like it, back up your claims with links.
>>>>>
>>>>> The same code is not in 2.0.6
>>>>
>>>> Really? Here's a screencast:<http://screencast.com/t/ZGNiMTNkO>
>>>>
>>>>> and when I tried to send a test sound file
>>>>> in a Newsgroup that allows such. I tried several times. Then I read a a
>>>>> post about this sanitation code and what it was doing and looked for
>>>>> there it is
>>>>
>>>> Set View-->Message_Body_As to "Original HTML".
>>>>
>>> I keep that set to keep as set to original html. all the time.
>>> I'll go to Bugzilla and see if I can locate the bugs I commented on the
>>> I will post the bug number here.
>>>
>>
>> Oh Phillip, don't you just love it! No Phillip, you're not dumb, you're
>> not stupid, or you're not an idiot. You know what you're talking about,
>> but the so-called experts sure don't.
>>
>> To everyone else: Compose a new message, in html. Now, click on Insert,
>> HTML, and put the following script in the box:
>>
>> <iframe marginheight="0" marginwidth="0"
>> src="http://newmail.monsterserve.com/keepout/movies/zip.wav"
>> type="audio/x-mpeg" frameborder="0" height="16" width="144"></iframe>
>>
>>
>> then click on the insert button, save the message, then go into your
>> drafts folder, click on the message, then click on View, Message Source,
>> and tell me what happened to the html that you just put in.
>>
>> Phillip, I think everyone owes you an apology, especially those
>> so-called experts.
>>
>> Oh, by the way, in order to see what Phillip is talking about, make sure
>> you're using the newest seamonkey or thunderbird for this testing.
>
>
> I just tried to embed using the above method in 2.0.7 and it does not work. Works perfectly on my
> laptop using 2.0.6. Regardless of what the code is called, Phillip is right you can no longer
> insert/embed HTML in 2.0.7. Few may use this feature and that is their choice but I too would like a
> choice.

Glad some one doesn't think I am an idiot.

Now Chris Go do as Ubiquity said heck you don't even have to send it 
anywhere, except Draft.

just go into any newsgroup use mozilla general then create a test case 
insert sound or Video in to your test message. Then save it as Draft. 
Now go to Draft and view it.

I dare anyone else to try it. You have to have 2.0.7 or later.  To prove 
it should work install 2.0.6 and do the same thing name the file 
something different.  the view both.

I'm sticking with 2.0.6 until they provide a switch to turn this off or 
until someone comes up with  Hack to turn this off.

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/17/2010 1:28:00 PM
On 09/16/2010 11:29 PM, Bret Busby wrote:
....
> 
> Is there any prospect of it being released as a .deb file (especially in 
> the EN-GB version)?
> 
> I am currently using iceape
> ("Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U;
> Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.14eol) Gecko/20070505 Iceape/1.0.9 
> (Debian-1.0.13~pre080614i-0etch1)")
> 
> as the latest version available for Debian 5.
> 
> I have previously found the .tar.gz files, simply too difficult to deal 
> with, and am able to use only the package management
> (eg, dpkg - i <package name> )
> for installing and updating files.

Talk to your distro maintainers...
<http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=iceape&searchon=names&suite=all&section=all>

Regarding .gz; simply follow the installation instructions:
<http://www.seamonkey-project.org/doc/2.0/install-and-uninstall>

0
NoOp
9/17/2010 5:44:43 PM
This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156)
--------------enigC61FE01A885AA4EAFF174FFA
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

   Hello!

  On 09/17/2010 08:29 AM, *Bret Busby* wrote, and I quote (in part):

> Is there any prospect of it being released as a .deb file (especially i=
n=20
> the EN-GB version)?
>=20
> I am currently using iceape
> ("Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U;
> Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.0.14eol) Gecko/20070505 Iceape/1.0.9=20
> (Debian-1.0.13~pre080614i-0etch1)")
>=20
> as the latest version available for Debian 5.

  IceApe 2.0.8 is currently available in the "unstable" repository, BTW..=
=2E

--=20
    Petr Voralek	(JabberID: nazir@jabber.cz)

{
 It's men like you that give perversion a bad name.  (Fox Mulder)
}


--------------enigC61FE01A885AA4EAFF174FFA
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"
Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc"

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)

iF4EAREIAAYFAkyT4iAACgkQnBGDx++6KABB4QD8DxOcBStSIkLrvg7KPCotypeK
8qayF0sk7l6WYI/5UdEBAINS2JbY+1vgdN01I9sHo9OBQzjLlx6A2OVyI/RQ0+Ul
=2V+u
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--------------enigC61FE01A885AA4EAFF174FFA--
0
Petr
9/17/2010 9:48:07 PM
On 09/17/2010 12:41 AM, Phillip Jones wrote:
> David E. Ross wrote:
>> On 9/16/10 2:57 PM, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>> Daniel wrote:
>>>> Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>>> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>>>>>> Rich Gray<rbg_smthorn@graysmail.com>   wrote:
>>>>>>> Robert Kaiser wrote:
>>>>>>>> ... SeaMonkey 2.0.8 is now available for Windows, Mac, and Linux as

[snip]

>>> Starting with  2.07  they built in a sanitizer code into SM in which I
>>> you belong to a HTML Group that allows sound and movies within the post.
>>> you can go to insert>html and insert it. but after its posted its
>>> removed by default. The developer types are becoming paranoid and almost
>>> dictatorial like with what they want to allow you to do with your own
>>> computer. If people on the other end in the intended group want to see
>>> it or not its their discretion to open it or not.
>>>
>>> Were it not for that ability to test in a Group sound code recently, I
>>> would not have figured out  a way to insert properly in my website. So
>>> until its turned off I am sticking with 2.0.6 untill it physically won't
>>> work. Oh its in the latest version of TB as well.
>>>
>>
>> Are you sure this problem is not caused by filters in the newsgroup
>> servers?
>>
>> Audio and video files embedded in messages travel the Internet as
>> attachments, not inline.  They become inline when received and merged by
>> your E-mail or news client (e.g., Thunderbird, SeaMonkey).  Furthermore,
>> they travel the Internet as binary attachments.  Many newsgroup servers
>> strip away binary attachments.
>>
> here is the actual code when you open about config:
> 
> mailnews.display.html_sanitizer.allowed.tags
> 

[snip]

This may help to get you going again with the latest SM.
http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.thunderbird/browse_thread/thread/206b23578f113e07#

-- 
Christian
0
Christian
9/18/2010 9:29:38 AM
Christian Riechers wrote:
-------------------snip-------------------

> [snip]
>
> This may help to get you going again with the latest SM.
> http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.thunderbird/browse_thread/thread/206b23578f113e07#
>

Edit HTML extension is no available for SM

But this Bug exactly is what I have been complaining about. it affects 
anything with rv:1.9.1.12 of the gecko engine.

SM 2.0.7 and above uses the rv:1.9.1.12 engine.

Now how do I find that bug so I can post here to show Chris and others I 
know what I am talking about.

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/18/2010 6:18:22 PM
On 9/18/2010 2:18 PM Phillip Jones wrote:
> Christian Riechers wrote:
> -------------------snip-------------------
>
>> [snip]
>>
>> This may help to get you going again with the latest SM.
>> http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.thunderbird/browse_thread/thread/206b23578f113e07#
>>
>>
>
> Edit HTML extension is no available for SM
>
> But this Bug exactly is what I have been complaining about. it affects
> anything with rv:1.9.1.12 of the gecko engine.
>
> SM 2.0.7 and above uses the rv:1.9.1.12 engine.
>
> Now how do I find that bug so I can post here to show Chris and others I
> know what I am talking about.
>

See if you can find your problem in one of these listings of bugs:

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=insert+html
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=edit+html

-- 
Ed
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1zhwu/
Powered by SeaMonkey: http://www.seamonkey-project.org/

Whatever you delete today, you desperately need tomorrow.
0
W3BNR
9/18/2010 7:41:38 PM
W3BNR wrote:
> On 9/18/2010 2:18 PM Phillip Jones wrote:
>> Christian Riechers wrote:
>> -------------------snip-------------------
>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>> This may help to get you going again with the latest SM.
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.thunderbird/browse_thread/thread/206b23578f113e07#
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Edit HTML extension is no available for SM
>>
>> But this Bug exactly is what I have been complaining about. it affects
>> anything with rv:1.9.1.12 of the gecko engine.
>>
>> SM 2.0.7 and above uses the rv:1.9.1.12 engine.
>>
>> Now how do I find that bug so I can post here to show Chris and others I
>> know what I am talking about.
>>
>
> See if you can find your problem in one of these listings of bugs:
>
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=insert+html
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=edit+html
>

I can't find it listed. However I just reported it. I am sure there will 
be a Duplicate to show up when it shows up I'll post the duplicate.

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/19/2010 3:51:41 AM
On 10-09-17 1:35 AM, Ubiquity wrote:
> Oh Phillip, don't you just love it! No Phillip, you're not dumb, you're
> not stupid, or you're not an idiot. You know what you're talking about,
> but the so-called experts sure don't.
>
> To everyone else: Compose a new message, in html. Now, click on Insert,
> HTML, and put the following script in the box:
>
> <iframe marginheight="0" marginwidth="0"
> src="http://newmail.monsterserve.com/keepout/movies/zip.wav"
> type="audio/x-mpeg" frameborder="0" height="16" width="144"></iframe>
>
>
> then click on the insert button, save the message, then go into your
> drafts folder, click on the message, then click on View, Message Source,
> and tell me what happened to the html that you just put in.
>
> Phillip, I think everyone owes you an apology, especially those
> so-called experts.
>
> Oh, by the way, in order to see what Phillip is talking about, make sure
> you're using the newest seamonkey or thunderbird for this testing.

Thanks Ubiquity. Other than a bug number, that's the info we've been 
asking for (what sanitizer). The pref Phillip cited is for the 
View-->Message_Body_As-->Simple_HTML setting. The change in SeaMonkey 
2.0.7 is likely the result a security fix to Gecko, but without bug 
numbers, I can't be sure.
http://www.mozilla.org/security/known-vulnerabilities/seamonkey20.html#seamonkey2.0.7

It would be best to ask in mozilla.dev.apps.seamonkey about whether or 
not the change affected SeaMonkey mail composition intentionally or not.

Finally, no-one called Phillip dumb, or stupid, or an idiot, just like 
no-one called him a crackpot. What I said is that he has a tendency to 
spread misinformation.

-- 
Chris Ilias <http://ilias.ca>
List-owner: support-firefox, support-thunderbird, test-multimedia
0
Chris
9/19/2010 6:23:37 AM
On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 02:23:37 -0400, Chris Ilias wrote:

> It would be best to ask in mozilla.dev.apps.seamonkey about whether or 
> not the change affected SeaMonkey mail composition intentionally or not.

We share the same backend mailnews code with Thunderbird and the backend
html code with firefox, so the first step is to ask in
mozilla.dev.apps.thunderbird instead since we would just refer you there
in any case.

> Finally, no-one called Phillip dumb, or stupid, or an idiot, just like 
> no-one called him a crackpot. What I said is that he has a tendency to 
> spread misinformation.

I think it's in the subtext. You don't have to be a deconstructionist in
order to notice that.

Phil

-- 
Philip Chee <philip@aleytys.pc.my>, <philip.chee@gmail.com>
http://flashblock.mozdev.org/ http://xsidebar.mozdev.org
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.

0
Philip
9/19/2010 10:51:22 AM
Chris Ilias wrote:
> On 10-09-17 1:35 AM, Ubiquity wrote:
>> Oh Phillip, don't you just love it! No Phillip, you're not dumb, you're
>> not stupid, or you're not an idiot. You know what you're talking about,
>> but the so-called experts sure don't.
>>
>> To everyone else: Compose a new message, in html. Now, click on Insert,
>> HTML, and put the following script in the box:
>>
>> <iframe marginheight="0" marginwidth="0"
>> src="http://newmail.monsterserve.com/keepout/movies/zip.wav"
>> type="audio/x-mpeg" frameborder="0" height="16" width="144"></iframe>
>>
>>
>> then click on the insert button, save the message, then go into your
>> drafts folder, click on the message, then click on View, Message Source,
>> and tell me what happened to the html that you just put in.
>>
>> Phillip, I think everyone owes you an apology, especially those
>> so-called experts.
>>
>> Oh, by the way, in order to see what Phillip is talking about, make sure
>> you're using the newest seamonkey or thunderbird for this testing.
>
> Thanks Ubiquity. Other than a bug number, that's the info we've been
> asking for (what sanitizer). The pref Phillip cited is for the
> View-->Message_Body_As-->Simple_HTML setting. The change in SeaMonkey
> 2.0.7 is likely the result a security fix to Gecko, but without bug
> numbers, I can't be sure.
> http://www.mozilla.org/security/known-vulnerabilities/seamonkey20.html#seamonkey2.0.7
>
> It would be best to ask in mozilla.dev.apps.seamonkey about whether or
> not the change affected SeaMonkey mail composition intentionally or not.
>
> Finally, no-one called Phillip dumb, or stupid, or an idiot, just like
> no-one called him a crackpot. What I said is that he has a tendency to
> spread misinformation.
>
  Okay I reported the following bug and waiting for someone to reply as 
a duplicate of Bug number :?

here is my bug

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=597784


-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/19/2010 1:16:52 PM
Philip Chee wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 02:23:37 -0400, Chris Ilias wrote:
>
>> It would be best to ask in mozilla.dev.apps.seamonkey about whether or
>> not the change affected SeaMonkey mail composition intentionally or not.
>
> We share the same backend mailnews code with Thunderbird and the backend
> html code with firefox, so the first step is to ask in
> mozilla.dev.apps.thunderbird instead since we would just refer you there
> in any case.
>
>> Finally, no-one called Phillip dumb, or stupid, or an idiot, just like
>> no-one called him a crackpot. What I said is that he has a tendency to
>> spread misinformation.
>
> I think it's in the subtext. You don't have to be a deconstructionist in
> order to notice that.
>
> Phil
>

I don't spread disinformation "intentional" and *for most part never*. 
( Won't say I never have) It just what I report is people are not 
interested in investigating. Possibly because I am not a developer.

  Developers never take bugs that users find as serious. They have the 
attitude of "what the h... does a dumb a... user know about anything. We 
designed it the way it was supposed to work." ne when a another 
developer comes a along hey fix this does anything get done.

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/19/2010 1:29:49 PM
On 19.09.2010 08:29, Phillip Jones wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

>  Developers never take bugs that users find as serious. They have the
> attitude of "what the h... does a dumb a... user know about anything. We
> designed it the way it was supposed to work." ne when a another
> developer comes a along hey fix this does anything get done.

That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.

-- 
*Jay Garcia - Netscape/Flock Champion*
www.ufaq.org
Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Flock - Thunderbird
0
Jay
9/19/2010 1:53:35 PM
Jay Garcia wrote:
> On 19.09.2010 08:29, Phillip Jones wrote:
>
>   --- Original Message ---
>
>>   Developers never take bugs that users find as serious. They have the
>> attitude of "what the h... does a dumb a... user know about anything. We
>> designed it the way it was supposed to work." only when a another
>> developer comes a along, hey fix this, does anything get done.
>
> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.
>
I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user found.

Heck I just requested two bugs of mine be closed  this week, because of 
inaction. One had my report and one comment. No one had even 
investigated. The person commenting on it a few days ago was asking 
whether I still had the problem? I submitted the bug in 2006. There was 
not so much as anyone commenting at the time, your report has been noted 
or anything.  Yet at the time it was a common bug.

I don't expect anything even recognition of my latest bug. I just don't 
have any faith in the system. It useless to report bugs.

And BTW, the comments you quoted is *not information* its my *opinion* 
based on my experience with the system.

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/19/2010 2:20:48 PM
On 19.09.2010 09:20, Phillip Jones wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> Jay Garcia wrote:
>> On 19.09.2010 08:29, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>
>>   --- Original Message ---
>>
>>>   Developers never take bugs that users find as serious. They have the
>>> attitude of "what the h... does a dumb a... user know about anything. We
>>> designed it the way it was supposed to work." only when a another
>>> developer comes a along, hey fix this, does anything get done.
>>
>> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.
>>
> I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user found.

How many hundreds would you like me/anyone to list? Several of mine have
been addressed and fixed and I am NOT a dev.

> Heck I just requested two bugs of mine be closed  this week, because of
> inaction. One had my report and one comment. No one had even
> investigated. The person commenting on it a few days ago was asking
> whether I still had the problem? I submitted the bug in 2006. There was
> not so much as anyone commenting at the time, your report has been noted
> or anything.  Yet at the time it was a common bug.
> 
> I don't expect anything even recognition of my latest bug. I just don't
> have any faith in the system. It useless to report bugs.
> 
> And BTW, the comments you quoted is *not information* its my *opinion*
> based on my experience with the system.
> 

There are many cases where bugs are filed that have already been fixed
or the fix is included in the next release. Sometimes the devs just
don't have the time to comment on every bug entered, etc.

Or maybe they just don't like you!! And how is your paranoia doing
today? :-)

-- 
*Jay Garcia - Netscape/Flock Champion*
www.ufaq.org
Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Flock - Thunderbird
0
Jay
9/19/2010 3:59:53 PM
On 9/19/10 7:20 AM, Phillip Jones wrote:
> Jay Garcia wrote:
>> On 19.09.2010 08:29, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>
>>   --- Original Message ---
>>
>>>   Developers never take bugs that users find as serious. They have the
>>> attitude of "what the h... does a dumb a... user know about anything. We
>>> designed it the way it was supposed to work." only when a another
>>> developer comes a along, hey fix this, does anything get done.
>>
>> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.
>>
> I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user found.
> 
> Heck I just requested two bugs of mine be closed  this week, because of 
> inaction. One had my report and one comment. No one had even 
> investigated. The person commenting on it a few days ago was asking 
> whether I still had the problem? I submitted the bug in 2006. There was 
> not so much as anyone commenting at the time, your report has been noted 
> or anything.  Yet at the time it was a common bug.
> 
> I don't expect anything even recognition of my latest bug. I just don't 
> have any faith in the system. It useless to report bugs.
> 
> And BTW, the comments you quoted is *not information* its my *opinion* 
> based on my experience with the system.
> 

Since 2003, I have submitted 246 bug reports.

*  25 have been fixed.

*  18 were closed as "Works for me", some of which I closed myself when
I could no longer recreate the problem.

*  57 were closed as duplicates of other bug reports.  21 of those
others have been closed as either fixed or "Works for me".

*  Of the 94 that are still open, 31 are requests for enhancements
(RFEs) and thus are not software discrepancies.

*  Of the 94 that are still open, another 21 involve Web sites that are
sniffing for "Firefox" instead of "Gecko".  These are bugs in the
affected Web sites, not in any Mozilla-based product.

*  Of the 94 of my bug reports that are still open, 40 reflect actual
software discrepancies.

No, I'm not a developer.  I'm a interested user who used to be a
software test engineer (not for Mozilla).

-- 

David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>.

Anyone who thinks government owns a monopoly on inefficient, obstructive
bureaucracy has obviously never worked for a large corporation.
© 1997 by David E. Ross
0
David
9/19/2010 5:28:34 PM
On 19.09.2010 10:59, Jay Garcia wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> On 19.09.2010 09:20, Phillip Jones wrote:
> 
>  --- Original Message ---
> 
>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>> On 19.09.2010 08:29, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>
>>>   --- Original Message ---
>>>
>>>>   Developers never take bugs that users find as serious. They have the
>>>> attitude of "what the h... does a dumb a... user know about anything. We
>>>> designed it the way it was supposed to work." only when a another
>>>> developer comes a along, hey fix this, does anything get done.
>>>
>>> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.
>>>
>> I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user found.
> 
> How many hundreds would you like me/anyone to list? Several of mine have
> been addressed and fixed and I am NOT a dev.
> 
>> Heck I just requested two bugs of mine be closed  this week, because of
>> inaction. One had my report and one comment. No one had even
>> investigated. The person commenting on it a few days ago was asking
>> whether I still had the problem? I submitted the bug in 2006. There was
>> not so much as anyone commenting at the time, your report has been noted
>> or anything.  Yet at the time it was a common bug.
>> 
>> I don't expect anything even recognition of my latest bug. I just don't
>> have any faith in the system. It useless to report bugs.
>> 
>> And BTW, the comments you quoted is *not information* its my *opinion*
>> based on my experience with the system.
>> 
> 
> There are many cases where bugs are filed that have already been fixed
> or the fix is included in the next release. Sometimes the devs just
> don't have the time to comment on every bug entered, etc.
> 
> Or maybe they just don't like you!! And how is your paranoia doing
> today? :-)
> 

Well here ya go Phillip, a complete list of bug fixes for TB 3 .. I'm
sure you can look at each one and determine if they were entered by a
"user" or a "dev" .. have fun, let us know.

http://www.rumblingedge.com/2009/02/26/thunderbird-3-beta-2-released/

-- 
*Jay Garcia - Netscape/Flock Champion*
www.ufaq.org
Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Flock - Thunderbird
0
Jay
9/19/2010 5:39:56 PM
Jay Garcia wrote:
> On 19.09.2010 09:20, Phillip Jones wrote:
>
>   --- Original Message ---
>
>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>> On 19.09.2010 08:29, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>
>>>    --- Original Message ---
>>>
>>>>    Developers never take bugs that users find as serious. They have the
>>>> attitude of "what the h... does a dumb a... user know about anything. We
>>>> designed it the way it was supposed to work." only when a another
>>>> developer comes a along, hey fix this, does anything get done.
>>>
>>> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.
>>>
>> I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user found.
>
> How many hundreds would you like me/anyone to list? Several of mine have
> been addressed and fixed and I am NOT a dev.
>
>> Heck I just requested two bugs of mine be closed  this week, because of
>> inaction. One had my report and one comment. No one had even
>> investigated. The person commenting on it a few days ago was asking
>> whether I still had the problem? I submitted the bug in 2006. There was
>> not so much as anyone commenting at the time, your report has been noted
>> or anything.  Yet at the time it was a common bug.
>>
>> I don't expect anything even recognition of my latest bug. I just don't
>> have any faith in the system. It useless to report bugs.
>>
>> And BTW, the comments you quoted is *not information* its my *opinion*
>> based on my experience with the system.
>>
>
> There are many cases where bugs are filed that have already been fixed
> or the fix is included in the next release. Sometimes the devs just
> don't have the time to comment on every bug entered, etc.
>
> Or maybe they just don't like you!! And how is your paranoia doing
> today? :-)
>
I don't expect  them to know me from Adam. So if I am unknown to them (I 
must not be a developer) and there for I carry no weight in Bugzilla.

I report bugs because I see them and would hope that someone would at 
least view them. If I was paranoid I wouldn't be using a computer. 8-)  ;-)

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/19/2010 7:50:54 PM
David E. Ross wrote:
> Since 2003, I have submitted 246 bug reports.

Let me take the opportunity to say Thank You. :-)

Greetings,

Jens

P.S.: 172 since 2004 for me, and counting.

-- 
Jens Hatlak <http://jens.hatlak.de/>
SeaMonkey Trunk Tracker <http://smtt.blogspot.com/>
0
Jens
9/19/2010 10:02:18 PM
On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 10:20:48 -0400, Phillip Jones wrote:
> Jay Garcia wrote:

>> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.

> I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user found.

You are not looking hard enough. Look harder. I fixed the following bugs:

Bug 86400  reported by David Carroll
Bug 156734 reported by Jeremy M. Dolan
Bug 388349 reported by Ed
Bug 395371 reported by arno renevier
Bug 414014 reported by Eyal Rozenberg
Bug 482433 reported by Chris Wimlett
Bug 534248 reported by Aleksej
Bug 534322 reported by Kevin Brosnan

Actually I fixed more but I got bored searching through bugzilla.

Phil

-- 
Philip Chee <philip@aleytys.pc.my>, <philip.chee@gmail.com>
http://flashblock.mozdev.org/ http://xsidebar.mozdev.org
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.

0
Philip
9/20/2010 5:57:34 AM
Philip Chee wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 10:20:48 -0400, Phillip Jones wrote:
>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>
>>> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.
>
>> I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user found.
>
> You are not looking hard enough. Look harder. I fixed the following bugs:
>
> Bug 86400  reported by David Carroll
> Bug 156734 reported by Jeremy M. Dolan
> Bug 388349 reported by Ed
> Bug 395371 reported by arno renevier
> Bug 414014 reported by Eyal Rozenberg
> Bug 482433 reported by Chris Wimlett
> Bug 534248 reported by Aleksej
> Bug 534322 reported by Kevin Brosnan
>
> Actually I fixed more but I got bored searching through bugzilla.
>

Could you fix this
  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=218258
  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595696

  or tell me how can i fix it
0
Ray_Net
9/20/2010 9:05:15 AM
On 9/20/2010 5:05 AM Ray_Net wrote:
> Philip Chee wrote:
>> On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 10:20:48 -0400, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>
>>>> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.
>>
>>> I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user found.
>>
>> You are not looking hard enough. Look harder. I fixed the following bugs:
>>
>> Bug 86400 reported by David Carroll
>> Bug 156734 reported by Jeremy M. Dolan
>> Bug 388349 reported by Ed
>> Bug 395371 reported by arno renevier
>> Bug 414014 reported by Eyal Rozenberg
>> Bug 482433 reported by Chris Wimlett
>> Bug 534248 reported by Aleksej
>> Bug 534322 reported by Kevin Brosnan
>>
>> Actually I fixed more but I got bored searching through bugzilla.
>>
>
> Could you fix this
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=218258
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595696
>
> or tell me how can i fix it

"Bug" 218258 - only 28 votes in 7 years?  I don't think it will get 
"fixed".  More of a new feature request than a bug.

Anyhow 'gator' on April 4, 2010, suggested a work-a-round.  See comment 
#61 at the bug page.  This should satisfy the few that need the function.

-- 
Ed
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1zhwu/
Powered by SeaMonkey: http://www.seamonkey-project.org/

"I am human, therefore nothing human is strange to me."   -Terentius
0
W3BNR
9/20/2010 9:44:18 AM
On 20.09.2010 00:57, Philip Chee wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 10:20:48 -0400, Phillip Jones wrote:
>> Jay Garcia wrote:
> 
>>> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.
> 
>> I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user found.
> 
> You are not looking hard enough. Look harder. I fixed the following bugs:
> 
> Bug 86400  reported by David Carroll
> Bug 156734 reported by Jeremy M. Dolan
> Bug 388349 reported by Ed
> Bug 395371 reported by arno renevier
> Bug 414014 reported by Eyal Rozenberg
> Bug 482433 reported by Chris Wimlett
> Bug 534248 reported by Aleksej
> Bug 534322 reported by Kevin Brosnan
> 
> Actually I fixed more but I got bored searching through bugzilla.
> 
> Phil
> 

Maybe we won't see Phillip for a while after I posted the link to the
bug fix page, will take him ages to sift through each bug to see exactly
who filed 'em. :-D


-- 
*Jay Garcia - Netscape/Flock Champion*
www.ufaq.org
Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Flock - Thunderbird
0
Jay
9/20/2010 1:09:35 PM
On 20.09.2010 04:05, Ray_Net wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> Philip Chee wrote:
>> On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 10:20:48 -0400, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>
>>>> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.
>>
>>> I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user found.
>>
>> You are not looking hard enough. Look harder. I fixed the following bugs:
>>
>> Bug 86400  reported by David Carroll
>> Bug 156734 reported by Jeremy M. Dolan
>> Bug 388349 reported by Ed
>> Bug 395371 reported by arno renevier
>> Bug 414014 reported by Eyal Rozenberg
>> Bug 482433 reported by Chris Wimlett
>> Bug 534248 reported by Aleksej
>> Bug 534322 reported by Kevin Brosnan
>>
>> Actually I fixed more but I got bored searching through bugzilla.
>>
> 
> Could you fix this
>  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=218258
>  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595696
> 
>  or tell me how can i fix it

Both "bugs" are RFE bugs (Request For Enhancment) and not defects in the
application. Don't expect either one to be worked on unless someone
decides that they have the time away from "fixing" bugs.

-- 
*Jay Garcia - Netscape/Flock Champion*
www.ufaq.org
Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Flock - Thunderbird
0
Jay
9/20/2010 1:14:43 PM
Philip Chee wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 10:20:48 -0400, Phillip Jones wrote:
>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>
>>> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.
>
>> I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user found.
>
> You are not looking hard enough. Look harder. I fixed the following bugs:
>
> Bug 86400  reported by David Carroll
> Bug 156734 reported by Jeremy M. Dolan
> Bug 388349 reported by Ed
> Bug 395371 reported by arno renevier
> Bug 414014 reported by Eyal Rozenberg
> Bug 482433 reported by Chris Wimlett
> Bug 534248 reported by Aleksej
> Bug 534322 reported by Kevin Brosnan
>
> Actually I fixed more but I got bored searching through bugzilla.
>
> Phil
>

Technically your not a User.  You work on Plugins and extensions so you 
are a developer. I  like most people no thing at all about the 
mechanics.  Heck I only just recently learned about what I could  CSS. 
All I know is when I use something what it did or would do, and what not 
is not doing or can no longer do  And Try to explain to the best of my 
abilities Which most make light of. But its the best I can do.

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/20/2010 3:31:38 PM
Ray_Net wrote:
> Philip Chee wrote:
>> On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 10:20:48 -0400, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>
>>>> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.
>>
>>> I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user found.
>>
>> You are not looking hard enough. Look harder. I fixed the following bugs:
>>
>> Bug 86400  reported by David Carroll
>> Bug 156734 reported by Jeremy M. Dolan
>> Bug 388349 reported by Ed
>> Bug 395371 reported by arno renevier
>> Bug 414014 reported by Eyal Rozenberg
>> Bug 482433 reported by Chris Wimlett
>> Bug 534248 reported by Aleksej
>> Bug 534322 reported by Kevin Brosnan
>>
>> Actually I fixed more but I got bored searching through bugzilla.
>>
>
> Could you fix this
>    https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=218258
>    https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595696
>
>    or tell me how can i fix it

In reading the first bug from one end proves exactly my point that 
developers believe that users can't know what they want, that only 
developers know what users want. And tend to ignore users wishes.

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/20/2010 3:42:00 PM
Jay Garcia wrote:
> On 20.09.2010 00:57, Philip Chee wrote:
>
>   --- Original Message ---
>
>> On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 10:20:48 -0400, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>
>>>> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.
>>
>>> I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user found.
>>
>> You are not looking hard enough. Look harder. I fixed the following bugs:
>>
>> Bug 86400  reported by David Carroll
>> Bug 156734 reported by Jeremy M. Dolan
>> Bug 388349 reported by Ed
>> Bug 395371 reported by arno renevier
>> Bug 414014 reported by Eyal Rozenberg
>> Bug 482433 reported by Chris Wimlett
>> Bug 534248 reported by Aleksej
>> Bug 534322 reported by Kevin Brosnan
>>
>> Actually I fixed more but I got bored searching through bugzilla.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>
> Maybe we won't see Phillip for a while after I posted the link to the
> bug fix page, will take him ages to sift through each bug to see exactly
> who filed 'em. :-D
>
>


Fat chance :-D

I've reported the bug myself and we will see if it gets attention. 
perhaps when  nether regions freeze over.

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/20/2010 3:44:35 PM
On 20.09.2010 10:31, Phillip Jones wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> Philip Chee wrote:
>> On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 10:20:48 -0400, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>
>>>> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.
>>
>>> I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user found.
>>
>> You are not looking hard enough. Look harder. I fixed the following bugs:
>>
>> Bug 86400  reported by David Carroll
>> Bug 156734 reported by Jeremy M. Dolan
>> Bug 388349 reported by Ed
>> Bug 395371 reported by arno renevier
>> Bug 414014 reported by Eyal Rozenberg
>> Bug 482433 reported by Chris Wimlett
>> Bug 534248 reported by Aleksej
>> Bug 534322 reported by Kevin Brosnan
>>
>> Actually I fixed more but I got bored searching through bugzilla.
>>
>> Phil
>>
> 
> Technically your not a User.  You work on Plugins and extensions so you
> are a developer. I  like most people no thing at all about the
> mechanics.  Heck I only just recently learned about what I could  CSS.
> All I know is when I use something what it did or would do, and what not
> is not doing or can no longer do  And Try to explain to the best of my
> abilities Which most make light of. But its the best I can do.
> 

What you're alluding to is that developers only fix bugs for their own
enjoyment/amusement and that "users" don't count. Where in heaven's name
do you get this stuff, Phillip?


-- 
*Jay Garcia - Netscape/Flock Champion*
www.ufaq.org
Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Flock - Thunderbird
0
Jay
9/20/2010 5:30:45 PM
On 20.09.2010 10:42, Phillip Jones wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> Ray_Net wrote:
>> Philip Chee wrote:
>>> On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 10:20:48 -0400, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>
>>>>> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.
>>>
>>>> I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user found.
>>>
>>> You are not looking hard enough. Look harder. I fixed the following
>>> bugs:
>>>
>>> Bug 86400  reported by David Carroll
>>> Bug 156734 reported by Jeremy M. Dolan
>>> Bug 388349 reported by Ed
>>> Bug 395371 reported by arno renevier
>>> Bug 414014 reported by Eyal Rozenberg
>>> Bug 482433 reported by Chris Wimlett
>>> Bug 534248 reported by Aleksej
>>> Bug 534322 reported by Kevin Brosnan
>>>
>>> Actually I fixed more but I got bored searching through bugzilla.
>>>
>>
>> Could you fix this
>>    https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=218258
>>    https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595696
>>
>>    or tell me how can i fix it
> 
> In reading the first bug from one end proves exactly my point that
> developers believe that users can't know what they want, that only
> developers know what users want. And tend to ignore users wishes.
> 

Do you know what a RFE bug is and where they sit on the priority list?

-- 
*Jay Garcia - Netscape/Flock Champion*
www.ufaq.org
Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Flock - Thunderbird
0
Jay
9/20/2010 5:32:11 PM
On 20.09.2010 10:44, Phillip Jones wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> Jay Garcia wrote:
>> On 20.09.2010 00:57, Philip Chee wrote:
>>
>>   --- Original Message ---
>>
>>> On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 10:20:48 -0400, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>
>>>>> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.
>>>
>>>> I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user found.
>>>
>>> You are not looking hard enough. Look harder. I fixed the following
>>> bugs:
>>>
>>> Bug 86400  reported by David Carroll
>>> Bug 156734 reported by Jeremy M. Dolan
>>> Bug 388349 reported by Ed
>>> Bug 395371 reported by arno renevier
>>> Bug 414014 reported by Eyal Rozenberg
>>> Bug 482433 reported by Chris Wimlett
>>> Bug 534248 reported by Aleksej
>>> Bug 534322 reported by Kevin Brosnan
>>>
>>> Actually I fixed more but I got bored searching through bugzilla.
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>
>>
>> Maybe we won't see Phillip for a while after I posted the link to the
>> bug fix page, will take him ages to sift through each bug to see exactly
>> who filed 'em. :-D
>>
>>
> 
> 
> Fat chance :-D
> 
> I've reported the bug myself and we will see if it gets attention.
> perhaps when  nether regions freeze over.
> 

Why don't you simply go through the first 50 and report back to us who
are devs and who are users that are the original reporters. If you have
any doubt then post the names and we'll confirm. Keep in mind that that
list are FIXED bugs.

-- 
*Jay Garcia - Netscape/Flock Champion*
www.ufaq.org
Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Flock - Thunderbird
0
Jay
9/20/2010 5:34:21 PM
On Mon, 20 Sep 2010 11:31:38 -0400, Phillip Jones wrote:
> Philip Chee wrote:
>> On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 10:20:48 -0400, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>
>>>> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.
>>
>>> I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user found.
>>
>> You are not looking hard enough. Look harder. I fixed the following bugs:
>>
>> Bug 86400  reported by David Carroll
>> Bug 156734 reported by Jeremy M. Dolan
>> Bug 388349 reported by Ed
>> Bug 395371 reported by arno renevier
>> Bug 414014 reported by Eyal Rozenberg
>> Bug 482433 reported by Chris Wimlett
>> Bug 534248 reported by Aleksej
>> Bug 534322 reported by Kevin Brosnan
>>
>> Actually I fixed more but I got bored searching through bugzilla.
>>
>> Phil
>>
> 
> Technically your not a User.  You work on Plugins and extensions so you 
> are a developer. I  like most people no thing at all about the 
> mechanics.  Heck I only just recently learned about what I could  CSS. 
> All I know is when I use something what it did or would do, and what not 
> is not doing or can no longer do  And Try to explain to the best of my 
> abilities Which most make light of. But its the best I can do.

Since you obviously didn't read the post you are responding to I have
decided that replying to you is a waste of time. Bye.

Phil

-- 
Philip Chee <philip@aleytys.pc.my>, <philip.chee@gmail.com>
http://flashblock.mozdev.org/ http://xsidebar.mozdev.org
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.

0
Philip
9/20/2010 5:55:16 PM
Jay Garcia wrote:
> On 20.09.2010 10:42, Phillip Jones wrote:
>
>   --- Original Message ---
>
>> Ray_Net wrote:
>>> Philip Chee wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 10:20:48 -0400, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.
>>>>
>>>>> I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user found.
>>>>
>>>> You are not looking hard enough. Look harder. I fixed the following
>>>> bugs:
>>>>
>>>> Bug 86400  reported by David Carroll
>>>> Bug 156734 reported by Jeremy M. Dolan
>>>> Bug 388349 reported by Ed
>>>> Bug 395371 reported by arno renevier
>>>> Bug 414014 reported by Eyal Rozenberg
>>>> Bug 482433 reported by Chris Wimlett
>>>> Bug 534248 reported by Aleksej
>>>> Bug 534322 reported by Kevin Brosnan
>>>>
>>>> Actually I fixed more but I got bored searching through bugzilla.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Could you fix this
>>>     https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=218258
>>>     https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595696
>>>
>>>     or tell me how can i fix it
>>
>> In reading the first bug from one end proves exactly my point that
>> developers believe that users can't know what they want, that only
>> developers know what users want. And tend to ignore users wishes.
>>
>
> Do you know what a RFE bug is and where they sit on the priority list?
>

Yes I know what Referral For Enhancement is:

But did you see all the arguments against the suggestion?

with all the arrangements against. there was no chance it would even 
been looked at.

You can actually tell what will get fixed or added just by comments. If 
there are no comments with a week. or if the vast majority of comments 
are negative. nothing will be fixed

Go look at bugs That have no comments, and those that have mostly 
negative comments. Now see one with good comment as majority and see for 
yourself which have been fixed or are being worked on.

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/20/2010 6:02:49 PM
On 20.09.2010 10:31, Phillip Jones wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> Philip Chee wrote:
>> On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 10:20:48 -0400, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>
>>>> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.
>>
>>> I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user found.
>>
>> You are not looking hard enough. Look harder. I fixed the following bugs:
>>
>> Bug 86400  reported by David Carroll
>> Bug 156734 reported by Jeremy M. Dolan
>> Bug 388349 reported by Ed
>> Bug 395371 reported by arno renevier
>> Bug 414014 reported by Eyal Rozenberg
>> Bug 482433 reported by Chris Wimlett
>> Bug 534248 reported by Aleksej
>> Bug 534322 reported by Kevin Brosnan
>>
>> Actually I fixed more but I got bored searching through bugzilla.
>>
>> Phil
>>
> 
> Technically your not a User.  You work on Plugins and extensions so you
> are a developer. I  like most people no thing at all about the
> mechanics.  Heck I only just recently learned about what I could  CSS.
> All I know is when I use something what it did or would do, and what not
> is not doing or can no longer do  And Try to explain to the best of my
> abilities Which most make light of. But its the best I can do.
> 

Cripes Phillip!!! Re-read the message, especially the lines " ...
reported by ..."

How many of those reporters do you think/know are devs? My guess .. NONE!!

-- 
*Jay Garcia - Netscape/Flock Champion*
www.ufaq.org
Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Flock - Thunderbird
0
Jay
9/20/2010 6:05:06 PM
On 20.09.2010 13:02, Phillip Jones wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> Jay Garcia wrote:
>> On 20.09.2010 10:42, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>
>>   --- Original Message ---
>>
>>> Ray_Net wrote:
>>>> Philip Chee wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 10:20:48 -0400, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user found.
>>>>>
>>>>> You are not looking hard enough. Look harder. I fixed the following
>>>>> bugs:
>>>>>
>>>>> Bug 86400  reported by David Carroll
>>>>> Bug 156734 reported by Jeremy M. Dolan
>>>>> Bug 388349 reported by Ed
>>>>> Bug 395371 reported by arno renevier
>>>>> Bug 414014 reported by Eyal Rozenberg
>>>>> Bug 482433 reported by Chris Wimlett
>>>>> Bug 534248 reported by Aleksej
>>>>> Bug 534322 reported by Kevin Brosnan
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually I fixed more but I got bored searching through bugzilla.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Could you fix this
>>>>     https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=218258
>>>>     https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595696
>>>>
>>>>     or tell me how can i fix it
>>>
>>> In reading the first bug from one end proves exactly my point that
>>> developers believe that users can't know what they want, that only
>>> developers know what users want. And tend to ignore users wishes.
>>>
>>
>> Do you know what a RFE bug is and where they sit on the priority list?
>>
> 
> Yes I know what Referral For Enhancement is:
> 
> But did you see all the arguments against the suggestion?
> 
> with all the arrangements against. there was no chance it would even
> been looked at.
> 
> You can actually tell what will get fixed or added just by comments. If
> there are no comments with a week. or if the vast majority of comments
> are negative. nothing will be fixed
> 
> Go look at bugs That have no comments, and those that have mostly
> negative comments. Now see one with good comment as majority and see for
> yourself which have been fixed or are being worked on.
> 

What do you think is the ratio of RFE's that are implemented to the bugs
that are fixed? Taking that list that I posted the link to, how many of
those FIXED bugs are RFE's? None?  What do you think is the reason?
Could the answer be that real BUGS are a lot more important than a
wish-list?

In fact, a very recent request/wish was made by Timo P in the
..devs.thunderbird group. It's being discussed and attended to quite
handily and may show up in the next release. Timo is making suggestions
and the devs are listening. BTW, Timo is a "user".

-- 
*Jay Garcia - Netscape/Flock Champion*
www.ufaq.org
Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Flock - Thunderbird
0
Jay
9/20/2010 6:11:52 PM
Jay Garcia wrote:
> On 20.09.2010 10:31, Phillip Jones wrote:
>
>   --- Original Message ---
>
>> Philip Chee wrote:
>>> On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 10:20:48 -0400, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>
>>>>> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.
>>>
>>>> I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user found.
>>>
>>> You are not looking hard enough. Look harder. I fixed the following bugs:
>>>
>>> Bug 86400  reported by David Carroll
>>> Bug 156734 reported by Jeremy M. Dolan
>>> Bug 388349 reported by Ed
>>> Bug 395371 reported by arno renevier
>>> Bug 414014 reported by Eyal Rozenberg
>>> Bug 482433 reported by Chris Wimlett
>>> Bug 534248 reported by Aleksej
>>> Bug 534322 reported by Kevin Brosnan
>>>
>>> Actually I fixed more but I got bored searching through bugzilla.
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>
>>
>> Technically your not a User.  You work on Plugins and extensions so you
>> are a developer. I  like most people no thing at all about the
>> mechanics.  Heck I only just recently learned about what I could  CSS.
>> All I know is when I use something what it did or would do, and what not
>> is not doing or can no longer do  And Try to explain to the best of my
>> abilities Which most make light of. But its the best I can do.
>>
>
> What you're alluding to is that developers only fix bugs for their own
> enjoyment/amusement and that "users" don't count. Where in heaven's name
> do you get this stuff, Phillip?
>
>

well in a way that's true  because Open source depends upon people or 
companies that want to wish to donate free time. They have day jobs and 
do this in spare time. It could be for entertainment.

But what was I was really trying get across is that developers tend to 
fix bugs if  other developers point out mistakes. But non techie users 
they just roll their eyes at and move on.

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/20/2010 6:16:45 PM
Jay Garcia wrote:
> On 20.09.2010 13:02, Phillip Jones wrote:
>
>   --- Original Message ---
>
>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>> On 20.09.2010 10:42, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>
>>>    --- Original Message ---
>>>
>>>> Ray_Net wrote:
>>>>> Philip Chee wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 10:20:48 -0400, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user found.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are not looking hard enough. Look harder. I fixed the following
>>>>>> bugs:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bug 86400  reported by David Carroll
>>>>>> Bug 156734 reported by Jeremy M. Dolan
>>>>>> Bug 388349 reported by Ed
>>>>>> Bug 395371 reported by arno renevier
>>>>>> Bug 414014 reported by Eyal Rozenberg
>>>>>> Bug 482433 reported by Chris Wimlett
>>>>>> Bug 534248 reported by Aleksej
>>>>>> Bug 534322 reported by Kevin Brosnan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Actually I fixed more but I got bored searching through bugzilla.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Could you fix this
>>>>>      https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=218258
>>>>>      https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595696
>>>>>
>>>>>      or tell me how can i fix it
>>>>
>>>> In reading the first bug from one end proves exactly my point that
>>>> developers believe that users can't know what they want, that only
>>>> developers know what users want. And tend to ignore users wishes.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Do you know what a RFE bug is and where they sit on the priority list?
>>>
>>
>> Yes I know what Referral For Enhancement is:
>>
>> But did you see all the arguments against the suggestion?
>>
>> with all the arrangements against. there was no chance it would even
>> been looked at.
>>
>> You can actually tell what will get fixed or added just by comments. If
>> there are no comments with a week. or if the vast majority of comments
>> are negative. nothing will be fixed
>>
>> Go look at bugs That have no comments, and those that have mostly
>> negative comments. Now see one with good comment as majority and see for
>> yourself which have been fixed or are being worked on.
>>
>
> What do you think is the ratio of RFE's that are implemented to the bugs
> that are fixed? Taking that list that I posted the link to, how many of
> those FIXED bugs are RFE's? None?  What do you think is the reason?
> Could the answer be that real BUGS are a lot more important than a
> wish-list?
>
> In fact, a very recent request/wish was made by Timo P in the
> .devs.thunderbird group. It's being discussed and attended to quite
> handily and may show up in the next release. Timo is making suggestions
> and the devs are listening. BTW, Timo is a "user".
>
Few if any because they are not taken seriously.

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/20/2010 6:22:17 PM
Jay Garcia wrote:
> On 20.09.2010 10:31, Phillip Jones wrote:
>
>   --- Original Message ---
>
>> Philip Chee wrote:
>>> On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 10:20:48 -0400, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>
>>>>> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.
>>>
>>>> I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user found.
>>>
>>> You are not looking hard enough. Look harder. I fixed the following bugs:
>>>
>>> Bug 86400  reported by David Carroll
>>> Bug 156734 reported by Jeremy M. Dolan
>>> Bug 388349 reported by Ed
>>> Bug 395371 reported by arno renevier
>>> Bug 414014 reported by Eyal Rozenberg
>>> Bug 482433 reported by Chris Wimlett
>>> Bug 534248 reported by Aleksej
>>> Bug 534322 reported by Kevin Brosnan
>>>
>>> Actually I fixed more but I got bored searching through bugzilla.
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>
>>
>> Technically your not a User.  You work on Plugins and extensions so you
>> are a developer. I  like most people no thing at all about the
>> mechanics.  Heck I only just recently learned about what I could  CSS.
>> All I know is when I use something what it did or would do, and what not
>> is not doing or can no longer do  And Try to explain to the best of my
>> abilities Which most make light of. But its the best I can do.
>>
>
> Cripes Phillip!!! Re-read the message, especially the lines " ...
> reported by ..."
>
> How many of those reporters do you think/know are devs? My guess .. NONE!!
>
I can't make that guess because I don't know first hand the names of any 
developers other than Phil Chee.

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/20/2010 6:27:11 PM
W3BNR wrote:
> On 9/20/2010 5:05 AM Ray_Net wrote:
>> Philip Chee wrote:
>>> On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 10:20:48 -0400, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>
>>>>> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.
>>>
>>>> I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user found.
>>>
>>> You are not looking hard enough. Look harder. I fixed the following
>>> bugs:
>>>
>>> Bug 86400 reported by David Carroll
>>> Bug 156734 reported by Jeremy M. Dolan
>>> Bug 388349 reported by Ed
>>> Bug 395371 reported by arno renevier
>>> Bug 414014 reported by Eyal Rozenberg
>>> Bug 482433 reported by Chris Wimlett
>>> Bug 534248 reported by Aleksej
>>> Bug 534322 reported by Kevin Brosnan
>>>
>>> Actually I fixed more but I got bored searching through bugzilla.
>>>
>>
>> Could you fix this
>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=218258
>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595696
>>
>> or tell me how can i fix it
>
> "Bug" 218258 - only 28 votes in 7 years? I don't think it will get
> "fixed". More of a new feature request than a bug.

Only 28 votes .... and you forgot the huge list of bugs closed because a 
duplicate of this one.

> Anyhow 'gator' on April 4, 2010, suggested a work-a-round. See comment
> #61 at the bug page. This should satisfy the few that need the function.

NO this doesnot statify the request - In addition the asked thing is 
already coded in the forward mechanism - this mechanism could be easely 
called when doing a "reply" - this not a great job to be done.
>

You speak about the fact that this bug should be an RFE .... this why i 
created https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595696 which is a 
RFE ... this RFE will stay at it is for another cycle of 7 years or 
more. As Phillip Jones said: 'developers believe that users can't know 
what they want, that only developers know what users want. And tend to 
ignore users wishes.'   and i add : Evenwhile if the work to be done is 
mimimal.
0
Ray_Net
9/20/2010 9:09:38 PM
On 20.09.2010 16:09, Ray_Net wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> W3BNR wrote:
>> On 9/20/2010 5:05 AM Ray_Net wrote:
>>> Philip Chee wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 10:20:48 -0400, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.
>>>>
>>>>> I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user found.
>>>>
>>>> You are not looking hard enough. Look harder. I fixed the following
>>>> bugs:
>>>>
>>>> Bug 86400 reported by David Carroll
>>>> Bug 156734 reported by Jeremy M. Dolan
>>>> Bug 388349 reported by Ed
>>>> Bug 395371 reported by arno renevier
>>>> Bug 414014 reported by Eyal Rozenberg
>>>> Bug 482433 reported by Chris Wimlett
>>>> Bug 534248 reported by Aleksej
>>>> Bug 534322 reported by Kevin Brosnan
>>>>
>>>> Actually I fixed more but I got bored searching through bugzilla.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Could you fix this
>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=218258
>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595696
>>>
>>> or tell me how can i fix it
>>
>> "Bug" 218258 - only 28 votes in 7 years? I don't think it will get
>> "fixed". More of a new feature request than a bug.
> 
> Only 28 votes .... and you forgot the huge list of bugs closed because a
> duplicate of this one.
> 
>> Anyhow 'gator' on April 4, 2010, suggested a work-a-round. See comment
>> #61 at the bug page. This should satisfy the few that need the function.
> 
> NO this doesnot statify the request - In addition the asked thing is
> already coded in the forward mechanism - this mechanism could be easely
> called when doing a "reply" - this not a great job to be done.
>>
> 
> You speak about the fact that this bug should be an RFE .... this why i
> created https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595696 which is a
> RFE ... this RFE will stay at it is for another cycle of 7 years or
> more. As Phillip Jones said: 'developers believe that users can't know
> what they want, that only developers know what users want. And tend to
> ignore users wishes.'   and i add : Evenwhile if the work to be done is
> mimimal.

If it's "minimal" than add a comment to your RFE explaining the minimal
steps in detail so that programmers reading it will get it and do it in
their spare time.

-- 
*Jay Garcia - Netscape/Flock Champion*
www.ufaq.org
Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Flock - Thunderbird
0
Jay
9/20/2010 9:50:56 PM
Jay Garcia wrote:
> On 20.09.2010 16:09, Ray_Net wrote:
>
>   --- Original Message ---
>
>> W3BNR wrote:
>>> On 9/20/2010 5:05 AM Ray_Net wrote:
>>>> Philip Chee wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 10:20:48 -0400, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user found.
>>>>>
>>>>> You are not looking hard enough. Look harder. I fixed the following
>>>>> bugs:
>>>>>
>>>>> Bug 86400 reported by David Carroll
>>>>> Bug 156734 reported by Jeremy M. Dolan
>>>>> Bug 388349 reported by Ed
>>>>> Bug 395371 reported by arno renevier
>>>>> Bug 414014 reported by Eyal Rozenberg
>>>>> Bug 482433 reported by Chris Wimlett
>>>>> Bug 534248 reported by Aleksej
>>>>> Bug 534322 reported by Kevin Brosnan
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually I fixed more but I got bored searching through bugzilla.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Could you fix this
>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=218258
>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595696
>>>>
>>>> or tell me how can i fix it
>>>
>>> "Bug" 218258 - only 28 votes in 7 years? I don't think it will get
>>> "fixed". More of a new feature request than a bug.
>>
>> Only 28 votes .... and you forgot the huge list of bugs closed because a
>> duplicate of this one.
>>
>>> Anyhow 'gator' on April 4, 2010, suggested a work-a-round. See comment
>>> #61 at the bug page. This should satisfy the few that need the function.
>>
>> NO this doesnot statify the request - In addition the asked thing is
>> already coded in the forward mechanism - this mechanism could be easely
>> called when doing a "reply" - this not a great job to be done.
>>>
>>
>> You speak about the fact that this bug should be an RFE .... this why i
>> created https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595696 which is a
>> RFE ... this RFE will stay at it is for another cycle of 7 years or
>> more. As Phillip Jones said: 'developers believe that users can't know
>> what they want, that only developers know what users want. And tend to
>> ignore users wishes.'   and i add : Evenwhile if the work to be done is
>> mimimal.
>
> If it's "minimal" than add a comment to your RFE explaining the minimal
> steps in detail so that programmers reading it will get it and do it in
> their spare time.
>
Finally Found the bug I was referring to:

mine is 597784

original is:

580442

It has title as described. By some of the contents of some developers 
its appears to be a deliberate attempt  to limit  users' abilities to 
do what they want.

now go read both.

then come back and say I like to spread stuff around.

As I've commented in both I will remain at 2.0.6 until the code its 
removed, a way to bypass in about:config is figured out, or someone 
comes up with a hack to turn that code off.

also I suggested (I did not say how easy) that to go at it, from users 
point of view, and put in a Preference to turn off receiving such 
specific items. That way the people that need it have it, can. Those 
that don't want to see it, can turn it off.

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/21/2010 12:34:47 AM
On 20.09.2010 19:34, Phillip Jones wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> Jay Garcia wrote:
>> On 20.09.2010 16:09, Ray_Net wrote:
>>
>>   --- Original Message ---
>>
>>> W3BNR wrote:
>>>> On 9/20/2010 5:05 AM Ray_Net wrote:
>>>>> Philip Chee wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 10:20:48 -0400, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user
>>>>>>> found.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are not looking hard enough. Look harder. I fixed the following
>>>>>> bugs:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bug 86400 reported by David Carroll
>>>>>> Bug 156734 reported by Jeremy M. Dolan
>>>>>> Bug 388349 reported by Ed
>>>>>> Bug 395371 reported by arno renevier
>>>>>> Bug 414014 reported by Eyal Rozenberg
>>>>>> Bug 482433 reported by Chris Wimlett
>>>>>> Bug 534248 reported by Aleksej
>>>>>> Bug 534322 reported by Kevin Brosnan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Actually I fixed more but I got bored searching through bugzilla.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Could you fix this
>>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=218258
>>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595696
>>>>>
>>>>> or tell me how can i fix it
>>>>
>>>> "Bug" 218258 - only 28 votes in 7 years? I don't think it will get
>>>> "fixed". More of a new feature request than a bug.
>>>
>>> Only 28 votes .... and you forgot the huge list of bugs closed because a
>>> duplicate of this one.
>>>
>>>> Anyhow 'gator' on April 4, 2010, suggested a work-a-round. See comment
>>>> #61 at the bug page. This should satisfy the few that need the
>>>> function.
>>>
>>> NO this doesnot statify the request - In addition the asked thing is
>>> already coded in the forward mechanism - this mechanism could be easely
>>> called when doing a "reply" - this not a great job to be done.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You speak about the fact that this bug should be an RFE .... this why i
>>> created https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595696 which is a
>>> RFE ... this RFE will stay at it is for another cycle of 7 years or
>>> more. As Phillip Jones said: 'developers believe that users can't know
>>> what they want, that only developers know what users want. And tend to
>>> ignore users wishes.'   and i add : Evenwhile if the work to be done is
>>> mimimal.
>>
>> If it's "minimal" than add a comment to your RFE explaining the minimal
>> steps in detail so that programmers reading it will get it and do it in
>> their spare time.
>>
> Finally Found the bug I was referring to:
> 
> mine is 597784
> 
> original is:
> 
> 580442
> 
> It has title as described. By some of the contents of some developers
> its appears to be a deliberate attempt  to limit  users' abilities to do
> what they want.
> 
> now go read both.
> 
> then come back and say I like to spread stuff around.
> 
> As I've commented in both I will remain at 2.0.6 until the code its
> removed, a way to bypass in about:config is figured out, or someone
> comes up with a hack to turn that code off.
> 
> also I suggested (I did not say how easy) that to go at it, from users
> point of view, and put in a Preference to turn off receiving such
> specific items. That way the people that need it have it, can. Those
> that don't want to see it, can turn it off.
> 

They're all against you Phillip, only you.


-- 
*Jay Garcia - Netscape/Flock Champion*
www.ufaq.org
Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Flock - Thunderbird
0
Jay
9/21/2010 3:46:38 AM
Jay Garcia wrote:
> On 20.09.2010 04:05, Ray_Net wrote:
>
>   --- Original Message ---
>
>> Philip Chee wrote:
>>> On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 10:20:48 -0400, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>
>>>>> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.
>>>
>>>> I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user found.
>>>
>>> You are not looking hard enough. Look harder. I fixed the following bugs:
>>>
>>> Bug 86400  reported by David Carroll
>>> Bug 156734 reported by Jeremy M. Dolan
>>> Bug 388349 reported by Ed
>>> Bug 395371 reported by arno renevier
>>> Bug 414014 reported by Eyal Rozenberg
>>> Bug 482433 reported by Chris Wimlett
>>> Bug 534248 reported by Aleksej
>>> Bug 534322 reported by Kevin Brosnan
>>>
>>> Actually I fixed more but I got bored searching through bugzilla.
>>>
>>
>> Could you fix this
>>   https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=218258
>>   https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595696
>>
>>   or tell me how can i fix it
>
> Both "bugs" are RFE bugs (Request For Enhancment) and not defects in the
> application. Don't expect either one to be worked on unless someone
> decides that they have the time away from "fixing" bugs.
>

Well, not only that, but, as I read 580442 there are some implied 
security issues.  So, given the few users interested and/or affected?  I 
doubt there's any likelihood this will be addressed.

-- 
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
Even a mosquito doesn't get a slap on the back until it starts to work.
0
Ed
9/21/2010 3:56:17 AM
Phillip Jones wrote:
> Jay Garcia wrote:
>> On 20.09.2010 10:31, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>
>> --- Original Message ---
>>
>>> Philip Chee wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 10:20:48 -0400, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.
>>>>
>>>>> I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user found.
>>>>
>>>> You are not looking hard enough. Look harder. I fixed the following
>>>> bugs:
>>>>
>>>> Bug 86400 reported by David Carroll
>>>> Bug 156734 reported by Jeremy M. Dolan
>>>> Bug 388349 reported by Ed
>>>> Bug 395371 reported by arno renevier
>>>> Bug 414014 reported by Eyal Rozenberg
>>>> Bug 482433 reported by Chris Wimlett
>>>> Bug 534248 reported by Aleksej
>>>> Bug 534322 reported by Kevin Brosnan
>>>>
>>>> Actually I fixed more but I got bored searching through bugzilla.
>>>>
>>>> Phil
>>>>
>>>
>>> Technically your not a User. You work on Plugins and extensions so you
>>> are a developer. I like most people no thing at all about the
>>> mechanics. Heck I only just recently learned about what I could CSS.
>>> All I know is when I use something what it did or would do, and what not
>>> is not doing or can no longer do And Try to explain to the best of my
>>> abilities Which most make light of. But its the best I can do.
>>>
>>
>> Cripes Phillip!!! Re-read the message, especially the lines " ...
>> reported by ..."
>>
>> How many of those reporters do you think/know are devs? My guess ..
>> NONE!!
>>
> I can't make that guess because I don't know first hand the names of any
> developers other than Phil Chee.
>

Umm, then, Phillip, perhaps you ought to refrain from making claims 
about devs and their motivations?


-- 
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
A flashlight is a case for holding dead batteries.
0
Ed
9/21/2010 4:01:52 AM
On 20.09.2010 13:27, Phillip Jones wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

>> Cripes Phillip!!! Re-read the message, especially the lines " ...
>> reported by ..."
>>
>> How many of those reporters do you think/know are devs? My guess ..
>> NONE!!
>>
> I can't make that guess because I don't know first hand the names of any
> developers other than Phil Chee.
> 

Then here is Phil Chee's list again, make note of "reported by: xxxx":

Bug 86400 reported by David Carroll
Bug 156734 reported by Jeremy M. Dolan
Bug 388349 reported by Ed
Bug 395371 reported by arno renevier
Bug 414014 reported by Eyal Rozenberg
Bug 482433 reported by Chris Wimlett
Bug 534248 reported by Aleksej
Bug 534322 reported by Kevin Brosnan

None of those are devs, ok?

Bring up the list of bug fixes again from the link I gave you.

Look at the list of devs (module owners) here:
http://www.mozilla.org/about/owners.html

Now, compare the reporters in the list to see who is a dev and who is a
user. Report back here with your findings. If you don't want to do this
then you'll just have to settle for the fact that there are more "users"
that report bugs than "devs" and stop posting mis-information instigated
by your own personal view(s). I gave you the tools, ok?

-- 
*Jay Garcia - Netscape/Flock Champion*
www.ufaq.org
Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Flock - Thunderbird
0
Jay
9/21/2010 1:25:24 PM
Jay Garcia wrote:
> On 20.09.2010 16:09, Ray_Net wrote:
>
>   --- Original Message ---
>
>> W3BNR wrote:
>>> On 9/20/2010 5:05 AM Ray_Net wrote:
>>>> Philip Chee wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 10:20:48 -0400, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user found.
>>>>>
>>>>> You are not looking hard enough. Look harder. I fixed the following
>>>>> bugs:
>>>>>
>>>>> Bug 86400 reported by David Carroll
>>>>> Bug 156734 reported by Jeremy M. Dolan
>>>>> Bug 388349 reported by Ed
>>>>> Bug 395371 reported by arno renevier
>>>>> Bug 414014 reported by Eyal Rozenberg
>>>>> Bug 482433 reported by Chris Wimlett
>>>>> Bug 534248 reported by Aleksej
>>>>> Bug 534322 reported by Kevin Brosnan
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually I fixed more but I got bored searching through bugzilla.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Could you fix this
>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=218258
>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595696
>>>>
>>>> or tell me how can i fix it
>>>
>>> "Bug" 218258 - only 28 votes in 7 years? I don't think it will get
>>> "fixed". More of a new feature request than a bug.
>>
>> Only 28 votes .... and you forgot the huge list of bugs closed because a
>> duplicate of this one.
>>
>>> Anyhow 'gator' on April 4, 2010, suggested a work-a-round. See comment
>>> #61 at the bug page. This should satisfy the few that need the function.
>>
>> NO this doesnot statify the request - In addition the asked thing is
>> already coded in the forward mechanism - this mechanism could be easely
>> called when doing a "reply" - this not a great job to be done.
>>>
>>
>> You speak about the fact that this bug should be an RFE .... this why i
>> created https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595696 which is a
>> RFE ... this RFE will stay at it is for another cycle of 7 years or
>> more. As Phillip Jones said: 'developers believe that users can't know
>> what they want, that only developers know what users want. And tend to
>> ignore users wishes.'   and i add : Evenwhile if the work to be done is
>> mimimal.
>
> If it's "minimal" than add a comment to your RFE explaining the minimal
> steps in detail so that programmers reading it will get it and do it in
> their spare time.
>
if you read the text, you will imediately see that's a minimal work - in 
short:
1. Create an option named "Reply-header-like-forward" and use it when
replying to a mail is this way:

If Reply-header-like-forward is true then
call <forward-header-composition>;

---------------------------
If i know how to modify SeaMonkey, i can give a try.
0
Ray_Net
9/21/2010 3:11:34 PM
Jay Garcia wrote:
> On 20.09.2010 19:34, Phillip Jones wrote:
>
>   --- Original Message ---
>
>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>> On 20.09.2010 16:09, Ray_Net wrote:
>>>
>>>    --- Original Message ---
>>>
>>>> W3BNR wrote:
>>>>> On 9/20/2010 5:05 AM Ray_Net wrote:
>>>>>> Philip Chee wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 10:20:48 -0400, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user
>>>>>>>> found.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are not looking hard enough. Look harder. I fixed the following
>>>>>>> bugs:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bug 86400 reported by David Carroll
>>>>>>> Bug 156734 reported by Jeremy M. Dolan
>>>>>>> Bug 388349 reported by Ed
>>>>>>> Bug 395371 reported by arno renevier
>>>>>>> Bug 414014 reported by Eyal Rozenberg
>>>>>>> Bug 482433 reported by Chris Wimlett
>>>>>>> Bug 534248 reported by Aleksej
>>>>>>> Bug 534322 reported by Kevin Brosnan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Actually I fixed more but I got bored searching through bugzilla.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Could you fix this
>>>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=218258
>>>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595696
>>>>>>
>>>>>> or tell me how can i fix it
>>>>>
>>>>> "Bug" 218258 - only 28 votes in 7 years? I don't think it will get
>>>>> "fixed". More of a new feature request than a bug.
>>>>
>>>> Only 28 votes .... and you forgot the huge list of bugs closed because a
>>>> duplicate of this one.
>>>>
>>>>> Anyhow 'gator' on April 4, 2010, suggested a work-a-round. See comment
>>>>> #61 at the bug page. This should satisfy the few that need the
>>>>> function.
>>>>
>>>> NO this doesnot statify the request - In addition the asked thing is
>>>> already coded in the forward mechanism - this mechanism could be easely
>>>> called when doing a "reply" - this not a great job to be done.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You speak about the fact that this bug should be an RFE .... this why i
>>>> created https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595696 which is a
>>>> RFE ... this RFE will stay at it is for another cycle of 7 years or
>>>> more. As Phillip Jones said: 'developers believe that users can't know
>>>> what they want, that only developers know what users want. And tend to
>>>> ignore users wishes.'   and i add : Evenwhile if the work to be done is
>>>> mimimal.
>>>
>>> If it's "minimal" than add a comment to your RFE explaining the minimal
>>> steps in detail so that programmers reading it will get it and do it in
>>> their spare time.
>>>
>> Finally Found the bug I was referring to:
>>
>> mine is 597784
>>
>> original is:
>>
>> 580442
>>
>> It has title as described. By some of the contents of some developers
>> its appears to be a deliberate attempt  to limit  users' abilities to do
>> what they want.
>>
>> now go read both.
>>
>> then come back and say I like to spread stuff around.
>>
>> As I've commented in both I will remain at 2.0.6 until the code its
>> removed, a way to bypass in about:config is figured out, or someone
>> comes up with a hack to turn that code off.
>>
>> also I suggested (I did not say how easy) that to go at it, from users
>> point of view, and put in a Preference to turn off receiving such
>> specific items. That way the people that need it have it, can. Those
>> that don't want to see it, can turn it off.
>>
>
> They're all against you Phillip, only you.
>
>
Yep.

Actually I've been told a fix is in the works.

Its curious that we been doing what as in 2.0.6 and lower since 
Communicator Day's about 12 years or more and they just decide it was 
supposed to be a security risk. I have seen anything risky out it for 12 
or more years.

This will be my last post on "this" issue. Don't rock any boat if a fix 
is in the works.

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/21/2010 5:41:04 PM
On 21.09.2010 10:11, Ray_Net wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> Jay Garcia wrote:
>> On 20.09.2010 16:09, Ray_Net wrote:
>>
>>   --- Original Message ---
>>
>>> W3BNR wrote:
>>>> On 9/20/2010 5:05 AM Ray_Net wrote:
>>>>> Philip Chee wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 10:20:48 -0400, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user
>>>>>>> found.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are not looking hard enough. Look harder. I fixed the following
>>>>>> bugs:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bug 86400 reported by David Carroll
>>>>>> Bug 156734 reported by Jeremy M. Dolan
>>>>>> Bug 388349 reported by Ed
>>>>>> Bug 395371 reported by arno renevier
>>>>>> Bug 414014 reported by Eyal Rozenberg
>>>>>> Bug 482433 reported by Chris Wimlett
>>>>>> Bug 534248 reported by Aleksej
>>>>>> Bug 534322 reported by Kevin Brosnan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Actually I fixed more but I got bored searching through bugzilla.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Could you fix this
>>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=218258
>>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595696
>>>>>
>>>>> or tell me how can i fix it
>>>>
>>>> "Bug" 218258 - only 28 votes in 7 years? I don't think it will get
>>>> "fixed". More of a new feature request than a bug.
>>>
>>> Only 28 votes .... and you forgot the huge list of bugs closed because a
>>> duplicate of this one.
>>>
>>>> Anyhow 'gator' on April 4, 2010, suggested a work-a-round. See comment
>>>> #61 at the bug page. This should satisfy the few that need the
>>>> function.
>>>
>>> NO this doesnot statify the request - In addition the asked thing is
>>> already coded in the forward mechanism - this mechanism could be easely
>>> called when doing a "reply" - this not a great job to be done.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You speak about the fact that this bug should be an RFE .... this why i
>>> created https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595696 which is a
>>> RFE ... this RFE will stay at it is for another cycle of 7 years or
>>> more. As Phillip Jones said: 'developers believe that users can't know
>>> what they want, that only developers know what users want. And tend to
>>> ignore users wishes.'   and i add : Evenwhile if the work to be done is
>>> mimimal.
>>
>> If it's "minimal" than add a comment to your RFE explaining the minimal
>> steps in detail so that programmers reading it will get it and do it in
>> their spare time.
>>
> if you read the text, you will imediately see that's a minimal work - in
> short:
> 1. Create an option named "Reply-header-like-forward" and use it when
> replying to a mail is this way:
> 
> If Reply-header-like-forward is true then
> call <forward-header-composition>;
> 
> ---------------------------
> If i know how to modify SeaMonkey, i can give a try.

That is not programming steps needed to upgrade the module(s) necessary
to effect the change(s). If it's that simple then do it.

I understand what you are saying to do but it needs a programmer to
write the code necessary, etc. And THAT is not that simple. Then you
need someone capable to take the time. In open-source it's not always a
simple task to attract a contributor away from what they do for a living
as well as fix bugs for free and so on in the time they already have
dedicated. Good luck.

-- 
*Jay Garcia - Netscape/Flock Champion*
www.ufaq.org
Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Flock - Thunderbird
0
Jay
9/21/2010 8:13:13 PM
Jay Garcia wrote:
> On 21.09.2010 10:11, Ray_Net wrote:
>
>   --- Original Message ---
>
>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>> On 20.09.2010 16:09, Ray_Net wrote:
>>>
>>>    --- Original Message ---
>>>
>>>> W3BNR wrote:
>>>>> On 9/20/2010 5:05 AM Ray_Net wrote:
>>>>>> Philip Chee wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 10:20:48 -0400, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user
>>>>>>>> found.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are not looking hard enough. Look harder. I fixed the following
>>>>>>> bugs:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bug 86400 reported by David Carroll
>>>>>>> Bug 156734 reported by Jeremy M. Dolan
>>>>>>> Bug 388349 reported by Ed
>>>>>>> Bug 395371 reported by arno renevier
>>>>>>> Bug 414014 reported by Eyal Rozenberg
>>>>>>> Bug 482433 reported by Chris Wimlett
>>>>>>> Bug 534248 reported by Aleksej
>>>>>>> Bug 534322 reported by Kevin Brosnan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Actually I fixed more but I got bored searching through bugzilla.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Could you fix this
>>>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=218258
>>>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595696
>>>>>>
>>>>>> or tell me how can i fix it
>>>>>
>>>>> "Bug" 218258 - only 28 votes in 7 years? I don't think it will get
>>>>> "fixed". More of a new feature request than a bug.
>>>>
>>>> Only 28 votes .... and you forgot the huge list of bugs closed because a
>>>> duplicate of this one.
>>>>
>>>>> Anyhow 'gator' on April 4, 2010, suggested a work-a-round. See comment
>>>>> #61 at the bug page. This should satisfy the few that need the
>>>>> function.
>>>>
>>>> NO this doesnot statify the request - In addition the asked thing is
>>>> already coded in the forward mechanism - this mechanism could be easely
>>>> called when doing a "reply" - this not a great job to be done.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You speak about the fact that this bug should be an RFE .... this why i
>>>> created https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595696 which is a
>>>> RFE ... this RFE will stay at it is for another cycle of 7 years or
>>>> more. As Phillip Jones said: 'developers believe that users can't know
>>>> what they want, that only developers know what users want. And tend to
>>>> ignore users wishes.'   and i add : Evenwhile if the work to be done is
>>>> mimimal.
>>>
>>> If it's "minimal" than add a comment to your RFE explaining the minimal
>>> steps in detail so that programmers reading it will get it and do it in
>>> their spare time.
>>>
>> if you read the text, you will imediately see that's a minimal work - in
>> short:
>> 1. Create an option named "Reply-header-like-forward" and use it when
>> replying to a mail is this way:
>>
>> If Reply-header-like-forward is true then
>> call<forward-header-composition>;
>>
>> ---------------------------
>> If i know how to modify SeaMonkey, i can give a try.
>
> That is not programming steps needed to upgrade the module(s) necessary
> to effect the change(s). If it's that simple then do it.
>

If someone told me not to do it, but how i can participate for the 
coding .... i can try to implement it.
0
Ray_Net
9/21/2010 9:40:38 PM
On 21.09.2010 16:40, Ray_Net wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> Jay Garcia wrote:
>> On 21.09.2010 10:11, Ray_Net wrote:
>>
>>   --- Original Message ---
>>
>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>> On 20.09.2010 16:09, Ray_Net wrote:
>>>>
>>>>    --- Original Message ---
>>>>
>>>>> W3BNR wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/20/2010 5:05 AM Ray_Net wrote:
>>>>>>> Philip Chee wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 10:20:48 -0400, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user
>>>>>>>>> found.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You are not looking hard enough. Look harder. I fixed the following
>>>>>>>> bugs:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bug 86400 reported by David Carroll
>>>>>>>> Bug 156734 reported by Jeremy M. Dolan
>>>>>>>> Bug 388349 reported by Ed
>>>>>>>> Bug 395371 reported by arno renevier
>>>>>>>> Bug 414014 reported by Eyal Rozenberg
>>>>>>>> Bug 482433 reported by Chris Wimlett
>>>>>>>> Bug 534248 reported by Aleksej
>>>>>>>> Bug 534322 reported by Kevin Brosnan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Actually I fixed more but I got bored searching through bugzilla.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Could you fix this
>>>>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=218258
>>>>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595696
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> or tell me how can i fix it
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Bug" 218258 - only 28 votes in 7 years? I don't think it will get
>>>>>> "fixed". More of a new feature request than a bug.
>>>>>
>>>>> Only 28 votes .... and you forgot the huge list of bugs closed
>>>>> because a
>>>>> duplicate of this one.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyhow 'gator' on April 4, 2010, suggested a work-a-round. See
>>>>>> comment
>>>>>> #61 at the bug page. This should satisfy the few that need the
>>>>>> function.
>>>>>
>>>>> NO this doesnot statify the request - In addition the asked thing is
>>>>> already coded in the forward mechanism - this mechanism could be
>>>>> easely
>>>>> called when doing a "reply" - this not a great job to be done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You speak about the fact that this bug should be an RFE .... this
>>>>> why i
>>>>> created https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595696 which is a
>>>>> RFE ... this RFE will stay at it is for another cycle of 7 years or
>>>>> more. As Phillip Jones said: 'developers believe that users can't know
>>>>> what they want, that only developers know what users want. And tend to
>>>>> ignore users wishes.'   and i add : Evenwhile if the work to be
>>>>> done is
>>>>> mimimal.
>>>>
>>>> If it's "minimal" than add a comment to your RFE explaining the minimal
>>>> steps in detail so that programmers reading it will get it and do it in
>>>> their spare time.
>>>>
>>> if you read the text, you will imediately see that's a minimal work - in
>>> short:
>>> 1. Create an option named "Reply-header-like-forward" and use it when
>>> replying to a mail is this way:
>>>
>>> If Reply-header-like-forward is true then
>>> call<forward-header-composition>;
>>>
>>> ---------------------------
>>> If i know how to modify SeaMonkey, i can give a try.
>>
>> That is not programming steps needed to upgrade the module(s) necessary
>> to effect the change(s). If it's that simple then do it.
>>
> 
> If someone told me not to do it, but how i can participate for the
> coding .... i can try to implement it.

Go for it, your contribution will be most appreciated.

-- 
*Jay Garcia - Netscape/Flock Champion*
www.ufaq.org
Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Flock - Thunderbird
0
Jay
9/21/2010 10:16:59 PM
On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 08:25:24 -0500, Jay Garcia wrote:

> Look at the list of devs (module owners) here:
> http://www.mozilla.org/about/owners.html

For SeaMonkey specific developers perhaps it would be better to look at:

<http://dev.seamonkey.at/?d=x&i=project&m=f&f.level=1>

Phil

-- 
Philip Chee <philip@aleytys.pc.my>, <philip.chee@gmail.com>
http://flashblock.mozdev.org/ http://xsidebar.mozdev.org
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.

0
Philip
9/22/2010 5:40:29 AM
On 22.09.2010 00:40, Philip Chee wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 08:25:24 -0500, Jay Garcia wrote:
> 
>> Look at the list of devs (module owners) here:
>> http://www.mozilla.org/about/owners.html
> 
> For SeaMonkey specific developers perhaps it would be better to look at:
> 
> <http://dev.seamonkey.at/?d=x&i=project&m=f&f.level=1>
> 
> Phil
> 

Yes, re SM but Phillip was making a general mis-statement about "devs"
in general so I just provided him with "list" in general to peruse. :-)

Either way he'll be out of touch for quite some time now that there are
two lists. :-D

-- 
*Jay Garcia - Netscape/Flock Champion*
www.ufaq.org
Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Flock - Thunderbird
0
Jay
9/22/2010 11:44:56 AM
Philip Chee schrieb:
> On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 08:25:24 -0500, Jay Garcia wrote:
>
>> Look at the list of devs (module owners) here:
>> http://www.mozilla.org/about/owners.html
>
> For SeaMonkey specific developers perhaps it would be better to look at:
>
> <http://dev.seamonkey.at/?d=x&i=project&m=f&f.level=1>

Phew, and I had hoped to not have this URL spread to widely because I 
have no clue what heavy hitting it and its links will do to the server - 
and when you publish it here, Google and others will probably go and 
follow every link to index it...

Also, note that this is just an automated statistics tool, not an 
official directory for module owners or peers.

We will update the project areas list that should act as that, we have 
planned a session for doing that in the upcoming SeaMonkey Developer 
Meeting in October.

Robert Kaiser


-- 
Note that any statements of mine - no matter how passionate - are never 
meant to be offensive but very often as food for thought or possible 
arguments that we as a community needs answers to. And most of the time, 
I even appreciate irony and fun! :)
0
Robert
9/22/2010 11:55:52 AM
Le 22 septembre 2010, Robert Kaiser a écrit :

> Phew, and I had hoped to not have this URL spread to widely because I have no 
> clue what heavy hitting it and its links will do to the server - and when you 
> publish it here, Google and others will probably go and follow every link to 
> index it...

There exist HTML meta tags telling bots not to index and even not to 
follow links. Do you think "Google and others" don't honor them?

-- 
LL
0
Lucas
9/22/2010 2:50:32 PM
Robert Kaiser wrote:

> Philip Chee schrieb:
>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>> Look at the list of devs (module owners) here:
>>> http://www.mozilla.org/about/owners.html
>> 
>> For SeaMonkey specific developers perhaps it would be better to look
>> at: 
>> 
>> <http://dev.seamonkey.at/?d=x&i=project&m=f&f.level=1>
> 
> Phew, and I had hoped to not have this URL spread to [sic] widely
> because I have no clue what heavy hitting it and its links will do to
> the server - and when you publish it here, Google and others will
> probably go and follow every link to index it...

<lol!>  If that would be such a big concern, you probably would not have
placed *Google Ads* on the pages of that site!

   <script type="text/javascript"><!--
   google_ad_client = "pub-6426654240922148";
   google_ad_width = 468;
   google_ad_height = 60;
   google_ad_format = "468x60_as";
   google_ad_channel ="3213523795";

...etc.

-- 
   -bts
   -Four wheels carry the body; two wheels move the soul
0
Beauregard
9/22/2010 6:07:47 PM
Lucas Levrel wrote:
-------------------snip-------------------

> Do you think "Google and others" don't honor them?
>
  A resounding YES!!

I was considering a Captcha software to put on Web page on a website for 
an association, I found out that Googel had purchased it. So Now the 
members only page  on the site will have to eliminated because Google 
has a hand in it and can use the captcha Database to break into secure 
sites.

I trust Google about as far as I can pitch them.

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/22/2010 6:54:22 PM
 > Phillip Jones wrote:
> Lucas Levrel wrote:
> -------------------snip-------------------
>
>> Do you think "Google and others" don't honor them?
>>
> A resounding YES!!
>
> I was considering a Captcha software to put on Web page on a website for
> an association, I found out that Googel had purchased it. So Now the
> members only page on the site will have to eliminated because Google has
> a hand in it and can use the captcha Database to break into secure sites.
>
> I trust Google about as far as I can pitch them.

I agree that Google is an enemy of privacy, and of freedom itself, in
some fundamental ways - their leadership is way out of control.

As for Captcha, I seem to recall that there are some Google-free
alternatives.

BTW: I wonder if anyone has created a Web page logo something like
"Another Google-free Web page" linked to a site that lists all of
the anti-privacy and anti-freedom activities of Google?

I'd sure add it to my sites.

I use http://startpage.com, clusty.com, yippy.com, and other
google-free search engines. I don't miss anything by doing so.
I never "google", I search!


-- 

Thanks! & 73, doc, KD4E
"Communicators must defend free speech
or risk losing freedom entirely."
A Search Engine & More! http://ixquick.com
             |_|___|_|
             | | & | |
        /\      {|
       /  \     {|
      /    \    {|
     /   @  \   {|
     |   |~_|~~~~|
     |   -| |    |
============\ # http://KD4E.com
Have an http://ultrafidian.com day!
0
doc
9/22/2010 7:03:05 PM
Phillip Jones wrote:

> Lucas Levrel wrote:
> -------------------snip-------------------

Restore snip:
>> There exist HTML meta tags telling bots not to index and even not to
>> follow links.

>> Do you think "Google and others" don't honor them?
>
>   A resounding YES!!

Phillip, your paranoia is showing again. Google, and all the major
respectable search engines, observe the "noindex, nofollow" attributes.

> I was considering a Captcha software to put on Web page on a website
> for an association, I found out that Googel had purchased it. So Now
> the members only page  on the site will have to eliminated because
> Google has a hand in it and can use the captcha Database to break
> into secure sites.

Still more paranoia. You will need to explain or cite how an
association's site CAPTCHA could be used to "break into secure sites."
Start with *which* secure sites. List URLs, please.

A CAPTCHA is just an image of a distorted group of characters...

> I trust Google about as far as I can pitch them.

So what is "Googel" going to do with your association members' names?
Steal their bank accounts?

-- 
   -bts
   -Four wheels carry the body; two wheels move the soul
0
Beauregard
9/22/2010 7:31:14 PM
> So what is "Googel" going to do with your association members' names?
> Steal their bank accounts?

Have you heard the pompous declarations of the head of Google?

That soon people will not ask Google merely for information
but will rely upon them for direction because Google has gathered
so much data about them over so long a period of time that they
know more about them than they do.

If that does not frighten you then I have to guess that you are
missing his intent.

This is a dangerous man with too much money and power and too
many resources.

It has nothing to do with "paranoia", it has to do with the
application of clear thinking to a clear and present danger
to privacy and to freedom.

Orwell's 1984 may be a few decades late but according to Google
they are about to make it into a reality is ways one may have
to morph 1984 and The Matrix to contemplate.

There is a reason Google is being investigated and sued by
government agencies around the world.

Let's not be blind - history is replete with the terrible
consequences resulting from ignoring obvious threats to
freedom.

No one *needs* Google - so since they have clearly stated their
intend to invade privacy and to attack freedom how about we just
make our own decision to part company with them?

It's not hard.

-- 

Thanks! & 73, doc, KD4E
Defend free speech or lose your freedom.
I don't google I SEARCH! http://ixquick.com
             |_|___|_|
             | | & | |
        /\      {|
       /  \     {|
      /    \    {|
     /   @  \   {|
     |   |~_|~~~~|
     |   -| |    |
============\ # http://KD4E.com
Have an http://ultrafidian.com day!
0
doc
9/22/2010 7:57:50 PM
Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
> Phillip Jones wrote:
>
>> Lucas Levrel wrote:
>> -------------------snip-------------------
>
> Restore snip:
>>> There exist HTML meta tags telling bots not to index and even not to
>>> follow links.
>
>>> Do you think "Google and others" don't honor them?
>>
>>    A resounding YES!!
>
> Phillip, your paranoia is showing again. Google, and all the major
> respectable search engines, observe the "noindex, nofollow" attributes.
>
>> I was considering a Captcha software to put on Web page on a website
>> for an association, I found out that Googel had purchased it. So Now
>> the members only page  on the site will have to eliminated because
>> Google has a hand in it and can use the captcha Database to break
>> into secure sites.
>
> Still more paranoia. You will need to explain or cite how an
> association's site CAPTCHA could be used to "break into secure sites."
> Start with *which* secure sites. List URLs, please.
>
> A CAPTCHA is just an image of a distorted group of characters...
>
>> I trust Google about as far as I can pitch them.
>
> So what is "Googel" going to do with your association members' names?
> Steal their bank accounts?
>

  If Google owns and knows the captcha database,  then it will be easy 
to bypass the captcha and get private information. For example I want to 
be able to put a membership list of the members of the association: 
names, business names, addresses, Phones, emails for the members to 
view. Now because Google owns the best Captcha software company there is 
out there, there now, no secure method of doing so.

The CEO of Google has said in articles reported on cNet, Zdnet, and 
Computerworld, that viewer/user/Consumer security and Privacy, is of no 
interest what so ever to Google, the dissemination of information only 
is their only concern.

If you believe in a man's word is his Bond and handshake on a deal is 
sufficient. Your 40 years behind times. Anyone, companies, individuals 
are out to take advantage of  you if they get the chance and you let 
them. Today money is king and nothing else matters.
Dunto  others, before they do it unto you.
-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/22/2010 8:04:40 PM
Phillip Jones wrote:

> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>> So what is "Googel" going to do with your association members' names?
>> Steal their bank accounts?
> 
> If Google owns and knows the captcha database,  then it will be easy
> to bypass the captcha and get private information. For example I want
> to be able to put a membership list of the members of the
> association: names, business names, addresses, Phones, emails for the
> members to view. Now because Google owns the best Captcha software
> company there is out there, there now, no secure method of doing so.

You need to explain how you were planning on using a CAPTCHA image on
the association's login page. Does it not already have a user name and a
password assigned to each member? How will a distorted image give Google
the user's password?

I have a site with exactly what you state you want to do. It's for a
club. There is a Members Only portion of the site, and nobody can enter
it without knowing a user's name and individual password. What good
would a CAPTCHA do for a page like that?  Did you ever have to enter a
CAPTCHA value when you log into your bank's pages for your account
details?

If you are *not* using name and password access, it's your fault if the
private information is compromised.

Google, nor any other search engine, cannot access my site.

-- 
   -bts
   -Four wheels carry the body; two wheels move the soul
0
Beauregard
9/22/2010 8:18:46 PM
Jay Garcia wrote:
> On 21.09.2010 16:40, Ray_Net wrote:
>
>   --- Original Message ---
>
>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>> On 21.09.2010 10:11, Ray_Net wrote:
>>>
>>>    --- Original Message ---
>>>
>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>> On 20.09.2010 16:09, Ray_Net wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>     --- Original Message ---
>>>>>
>>>>>> W3BNR wrote:
>>>>>>> On 9/20/2010 5:05 AM Ray_Net wrote:
>>>>>>>> Philip Chee wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 19 Sep 2010 10:20:48 -0400, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That is not true, please stop spreading misinformation.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I've never seen a case where developers corrected a bug a user
>>>>>>>>>> found.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You are not looking hard enough. Look harder. I fixed the following
>>>>>>>>> bugs:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bug 86400 reported by David Carroll
>>>>>>>>> Bug 156734 reported by Jeremy M. Dolan
>>>>>>>>> Bug 388349 reported by Ed
>>>>>>>>> Bug 395371 reported by arno renevier
>>>>>>>>> Bug 414014 reported by Eyal Rozenberg
>>>>>>>>> Bug 482433 reported by Chris Wimlett
>>>>>>>>> Bug 534248 reported by Aleksej
>>>>>>>>> Bug 534322 reported by Kevin Brosnan
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Actually I fixed more but I got bored searching through bugzilla.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Could you fix this
>>>>>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=218258
>>>>>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595696
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> or tell me how can i fix it
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Bug" 218258 - only 28 votes in 7 years? I don't think it will get
>>>>>>> "fixed". More of a new feature request than a bug.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Only 28 votes .... and you forgot the huge list of bugs closed
>>>>>> because a
>>>>>> duplicate of this one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyhow 'gator' on April 4, 2010, suggested a work-a-round. See
>>>>>>> comment
>>>>>>> #61 at the bug page. This should satisfy the few that need the
>>>>>>> function.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> NO this doesnot statify the request - In addition the asked thing is
>>>>>> already coded in the forward mechanism - this mechanism could be
>>>>>> easely
>>>>>> called when doing a "reply" - this not a great job to be done.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You speak about the fact that this bug should be an RFE .... this
>>>>>> why i
>>>>>> created https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=595696 which is a
>>>>>> RFE ... this RFE will stay at it is for another cycle of 7 years or
>>>>>> more. As Phillip Jones said: 'developers believe that users can't know
>>>>>> what they want, that only developers know what users want. And tend to
>>>>>> ignore users wishes.'   and i add : Evenwhile if the work to be
>>>>>> done is
>>>>>> mimimal.
>>>>>
>>>>> If it's "minimal" than add a comment to your RFE explaining the minimal
>>>>> steps in detail so that programmers reading it will get it and do it in
>>>>> their spare time.
>>>>>
>>>> if you read the text, you will imediately see that's a minimal work - in
>>>> short:
>>>> 1. Create an option named "Reply-header-like-forward" and use it when
>>>> replying to a mail is this way:
>>>>
>>>> If Reply-header-like-forward is true then
>>>> call<forward-header-composition>;
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------
>>>> If i know how to modify SeaMonkey, i can give a try.
>>>
>>> That is not programming steps needed to upgrade the module(s) necessary
>>> to effect the change(s). If it's that simple then do it.
>>>
>>
>> If someone told me not to do it, but how i can participate for the
>> coding .... i can try to implement it.
>
> Go for it, your contribution will be most appreciated.
>
I have readed ... : 
https://developer.mozilla.org/En/Developer_Guide/Build_Instructions/Windows_Prerequisites

And my conclusion, is that i give up - i will not be able to install 
what is needed to perform this little modification :-(
0
Ray_Net
9/22/2010 8:50:47 PM
On 22.09.2010 13:54, Phillip Jones wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> Lucas Levrel wrote:
> -------------------snip-------------------
> 
>> Do you think "Google and others" don't honor them?
>>
>  A resounding YES!!

Well, you're wrong, they do.

> I was considering a Captcha software to put on Web page on a website for
> an association, I found out that Googel had purchased it. So Now the
> members only page  on the site will have to eliminated because Google
> has a hand in it and can use the captcha Database to break into secure
> sites.
> 
> I trust Google about as far as I can pitch them.
> 


-- 
*Jay Garcia - Netscape/Flock Champion*
www.ufaq.org
Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Flock - Thunderbird
0
Jay
9/22/2010 11:22:02 PM
"doc@kd4e.com" <doc@kd4e.com> wrote:
>> So what is "Googel" going to do with your association members' names?
>> Steal their bank accounts?
> 
> Have you heard the pompous declarations of the head of Google?
> 
> That soon people will not ask Google merely for information
> but will rely upon them for direction because Google has gathered
> so much data about them over so long a period of time that they
> know more about them than they do.
> 
> If that does not frighten you then I have to guess that you are
> missing his intent.
> 
> This is a dangerous man with too much money and power and too
> many resources.
> 
> It has nothing to do with "paranoia", it has to do with the
> application of clear thinking to a clear and present danger
> to privacy and to freedom.
> 
> Orwell's 1984 may be a few decades late but according to Google
> they are about to make it into a reality is ways one may have
> to morph 1984 and The Matrix to contemplate.
> 
> There is a reason Google is being investigated and sued by
> government agencies around the world.
> 
> Let's not be blind - history is replete with the terrible
> consequences resulting from ignoring obvious threats to
> freedom.
> 
> No one *needs* Google - so since they have clearly stated their
> intend to invade privacy and to attack freedom how about we just
> make our own decision to part company with them?
> 
> It's not hard.


Could you provide a link to these comments, so that we might read and
judge for ourselves?

Lee
0
Leonidas
9/23/2010 1:28:25 AM
>> That soon people will not ask Google merely for information
>> but will rely upon them for direction because Google has gathered
>> so much data about them over so long a period of time that they
>> know more about them than they do.
>>
>> Orwell's 1984 may be a few decades late but according to Google
>> they are about to make it into a reality is ways one may have
>> to morph 1984 and The Matrix to contemplate.
>>
> Could you provide a link to these comments, so that we might read and
> judge for ourselves?
>
> Lee

It was all over the tech news as well as FoxNews online and Drudge -
it was pretty hard to miss - he made a big splash.

A quick http://startpage.com Search brought up this:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread601623/pg1

I imagine there is much more out there, including I'd expect some
parodies on YouTube and the like.


-- 

Thanks! & 73, doc, KD4E
Defend free speech or lose your freedom.
I don't google I SEARCH! http://ixquick.com
             |_|___|_|
             | | & | |
        /\      {|
       /  \     {|
      /    \    {|
     /   @  \   {|
     |   |~_|~~~~|
     |   -| |    |
============\ # http://KD4E.com
Have an http://ultrafidian.com day!
0
doc
9/23/2010 1:58:45 AM
Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
> Phillip Jones wrote:
>
>> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>>> So what is "Googel" going to do with your association members' names?
>>> Steal their bank accounts?
>>
>> If Google owns and knows the captcha database,  then it will be easy
>> to bypass the captcha and get private information. For example I want
>> to be able to put a membership list of the members of the
>> association: names, business names, addresses, Phones, emails for the
>> members to view. Now because Google owns the best Captcha software
>> company there is out there, there now, no secure method of doing so.
>
> You need to explain how you were planning on using a CAPTCHA image on
> the association's login page. Does it not already have a user name and a
> password assigned to each member? How will a distorted image give Google
> the user's password?
>
> I have a site with exactly what you state you want to do. It's for a
> club. There is a Members Only portion of the site, and nobody can enter
> it without knowing a user's name and individual password. What good
> would a CAPTCHA do for a page like that?  Did you ever have to enter a
> CAPTCHA value when you log into your bank's pages for your account
> details?
>
> If you are *not* using name and password access, it's your fault if the
> private information is compromised.
>
> Google, nor any other search engine, cannot access my site.
>

there are sections of website the association wants everyone to see. But 
then there would be one section the Members-Only section should be 
hidden from view of Google and other  items such as Yahoo , Altavista an 
so on.


  using a Captcha does the same thing as using a username and password 
without the need for such and until Google bought  the leading captcha 
software developer, It was as secure as having a user name and password.

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/23/2010 3:43:41 AM
Phillip Jones wrote:

> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>> Phillip Jones wrote:
>>> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>>>> So what is "Googel" going to do with your association members'
>>>> names? Steal their bank accounts?
>>> 
>>> If Google owns and knows the captcha database,  then it will be
>>> easy to bypass the captcha and get private information. For example
>>> I want to be able to put a membership list of the members of the
>>> association: names, business names, addresses, Phones, emails for
>>> the members to view. Now because Google owns the best Captcha
>>> software company there is out there, there now, no secure method of
>>> doing so.
>> 
>> You need to explain how you were planning on using a CAPTCHA image
>> on the association's login page. Does it not already have a user
>> name and a password assigned to each member? How will a distorted
>> image give Google the user's password? 
>> 
>> I have a site with exactly what you state you want to do. It's for a
>> club. There is a Members Only portion of the site, and nobody can
>> enter it without knowing a user's name and individual password. What
>> good would a CAPTCHA do for a page like that?  Did you ever have to
>> enter a CAPTCHA value when you log into your bank's pages for your
>> account details? 
>> 
>> If you are *not* using name and password access, it's your fault if
>> the private information is compromised. 
>> 
>> Google, nor any other search engine, cannot access my site. 
> 
> there are sections of website the association wants everyone to see.

Great. The public part of the web site.

> But then there would be one section the Members-Only section should
> be hidden from view of Google and other  items such as Yahoo ,
> Altavista an so on. 

Yeah, search engines. Great. What about non-members?

> using a Captcha does the same thing as using a username and password
> without the need for such and until Google bought  the leading
> captcha software developer, It was as secure as having a user name
> and password.

Thanks for proving you don't know what a CAPTCHA is - or how to design a
secure web site.

It's a Turing test [1]. Are you a human or a robot? Unfortunately,
CAPTCHA images have been cracked by bots. They are no longer secure.

They will not keep out the general public, so what made you think you
would have a private, members only section accessible only to the
members? If any human on the planet goes to your entry page they can
interpret the distorted image and gain access to your 'private'
information.

What happens if one of your members sends the link of the interior page
where your association members are listed?  Will random access to that
page redirect them back to the 'login' page?

You *need* a username and password to keep - not only Google - but the
_general public_ out of your private pages. And each and every single
page inside the members-only section has to check and see if the user is
logged in. Otherwise, it needs to send them to members/login.

You should tell your association that you don't understand or know how
to write a private web site.

[1. Did you have to look that up? ]

-- 
   -bts
   -Four wheels carry the body; two wheels move the soul
0
Beauregard
9/23/2010 4:08:48 AM
doc@kd4e.com wrote:
>> So what is "Googel" going to do with your association members' names?
>> Steal their bank accounts?
>
> Have you heard the pompous declarations of the head of Google?

http://www.guntheranderson.com/v/data/forwhati.htm

-- 
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
Only in America are there handicap parking places in front of a skating 
rink.
0
Ed
9/23/2010 5:44:22 AM
Phillip Jones wrote:
> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>> Phillip Jones wrote:
>>
>>> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>>>> So what is "Googel" going to do with your association members' names?
>>>> Steal their bank accounts?
>>>
>>> If Google owns and knows the captcha database, then it will be easy
>>> to bypass the captcha and get private information. For example I want
>>> to be able to put a membership list of the members of the
>>> association: names, business names, addresses, Phones, emails for the
>>> members to view. Now because Google owns the best Captcha software
>>> company there is out there, there now, no secure method of doing so.
>>
>> You need to explain how you were planning on using a CAPTCHA image on
>> the association's login page. Does it not already have a user name and a
>> password assigned to each member? How will a distorted image give Google
>> the user's password?
>>
>> I have a site with exactly what you state you want to do. It's for a
>> club. There is a Members Only portion of the site, and nobody can enter
>> it without knowing a user's name and individual password. What good
>> would a CAPTCHA do for a page like that? Did you ever have to enter a
>> CAPTCHA value when you log into your bank's pages for your account
>> details?
>>
>> If you are *not* using name and password access, it's your fault if the
>> private information is compromised.
>>
>> Google, nor any other search engine, cannot access my site.
>>
>
> there are sections of website the association wants everyone to see. But
> then there would be one section the Members-Only section should be
> hidden from view of Google and other items such as Yahoo , Altavista an
> so on.
>
>
> using a Captcha does the same thing as using a username and password
> without the need for such

No, it isn't the same thing at all.  You do not understand the 
difference and should stop talking about it until you do.

> and until Google bought the leading captcha
> software developer, It was as secure as having a user name and password.
>

"Captcha" is a technique, it is NOT some proprietary script, Web 
technology etc.  You obviously don't have a clue what you're talking about.

The forms scripts I use that happen to use a captcha technique cannot be 
accessed by anyone but a human being who can read and type.  Maybe one 
day someone will build a piece of sw that can read a jumblepd-up bunch 
of pixels and correctly respond to them but it isn't possible right now.

I don't care what company Google bought, it has nothing to do with the 
captcha technique in the scripts I use.

Once again, Phillip, you are speaking before you understand.  And, in 
the process, spreading paranoic mis-information.  Usually your mistakes 
are merely amusing.  In this case, sorry, it's damaging and needlessly 
nutty.

-- 
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
Photons have mass? I didn't even know they were Catholic.
0
Ed
9/23/2010 5:57:22 AM
Phillip Jones wrote:
> Lucas Levrel wrote:
> -------------------snip-------------------
>
>> Do you think "Google and others" don't honor them?
>>
> A resounding YES!!
>

Google does honor them.

> I was considering a Captcha software to put on Web page on a website for
> an association, I found out that Googel had purchased it. So Now the
> members only page on the site will have to eliminated because Google has
> a hand in it and can use the captcha Database to break into secure sites.

"... a Captcha software ..." ???  What are you prattling on about? 
Fine, if one particular captcha script you were contemplating was from a 
company bought by Google, find another!  Good grief.

> I trust Google about as far as I can pitch them.

Keep your paranoia to yourself, Phillip.  You're serving no one by 
broadcasting this nonsense.

There are endless versions of captcha implementations in PHP and other 
"languagues" available for free.  Do a little research before you go off 
on a rant.

-- 
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
"Who so loves believes the impossible." - Elizabeth Barrett Browning
0
Ed
9/23/2010 6:08:56 AM
Ed Mullen wrote:

> The forms scripts I use that happen to use a captcha technique cannot
> be accessed by anyone but a human being who can read and type.  Maybe
> one day someone will build a piece of sw that can read a jumblepd-up
> bunch of pixels and correctly respond to them but it isn't possible
> right now.

Just to set the record straight, Ed, google up this:

   captcha cracked by spammers

...and read away. CAPTCHAs are no longer secure, and haven't been for a
couple of years. (Besides, they are annoying to humans. <g> )

It's very obvious Phillip knows not of what he speaks, and he should
stop spreading FUD. I know that, without DreamWeaver, Phillip would not
even be able to *have* a web site online.

-- 
   -bts
   -Four wheels carry the body; two wheels move the soul
0
Beauregard
9/23/2010 11:31:08 AM
On Sep 15, 5:17=A0pm, Robert Kaiser <ka...@kairo.at> wrote:
> The Mozilla community discovered a crash some of our users have been
> seeing at startup after updates to our previous releases. To fix that
> issue, SeaMonkey 2.0.8 is now available for Windows, Mac, and Linux as a
> free download fromwww.seamonkey-project.org.
>
> We strongly recommend that all SeaMonkey and old suite users upgrade to
> this latest release. If you already have SeaMonkey 2.0, you will receive
> an automated update notification within 24 to 48 hours. This update can
> also be applied manually by selecting "Check for Updates..." from the
> Help menu.
>
> For a list of changes and more information, please review the SeaMonkey
> 2.0.8 Release Notes.
>
> Note: All users of the outdated SeaMonkey 1.x, Mozilla or Netscape
> suites are encouraged to upgrade to SeaMonkey 2.0 by downloading it fromw=
ww.seamonkey-project.org.
>
> Full news article:http://www.seamonkey-project.org/news#2010-09-15
>
> Downloads for all available platforms and languages:http://www.seamonkey-=
project.org/releases/
>
> Release notes:http://www.seamonkey-project.org/releases/seamonkey2.0.8
>
> System Requirements:http://www.seamonkey-project.org/doc/2.0/system-requi=
rements
>
> Robert Kaiser
> SeaMonkey project coordinator

Ever since I upgraded to 2.0.8, it has crashed totally four or five
times every morning. Then it seems stable for the remainder of the
day....
0
Headfrog
9/23/2010 12:14:01 PM
On 22.09.2010 22:43, Phillip Jones wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

>  using a Captcha does the same thing as using a username and password
> without the need for such and until Google bought  the leading captcha
> software developer, It was as secure as having a user name and password.

No it does not. You cannot "log in" to a sight with just a captcha
routine but you CAN login w/o it by entering your user/pass. All captcha
is, is a challenge-response mechanism to insure that computer generated
access is not automatic via a script, etc.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAPTCHA

-- 
*Jay Garcia - Netscape/Flock Champion*
www.ufaq.org
Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Flock - Thunderbird
0
Jay
9/23/2010 12:50:32 PM
On 9/23/2010 4:31 AM On a whim, Beauregard T. Shagnasty pounded out on 
the keyboard

>
> It's very obvious Phillip knows not of what he speaks, and he should
> stop spreading FUD. I know that, without DreamWeaver, Phillip would not
> even be able to *have* a web site online.
>

Geez.  Do you feel good about yourself now "BS Nasty"?  At least he put 
forth an effort and created something for his family, regardless of what 
he used to do it. That's more than millions of other people have done.

Now go and blast every site designer that used FP to code sites instead, 
and leave Phillip be.

follow-up set to mozilla.general

Terry R.
-- 
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.
0
Terry
9/23/2010 3:55:11 PM
Terry R. wrote:

> Beauregard T. Shagnasty pounded out on the keyboard
>> It's very obvious Phillip knows not of what he speaks, and he should
>> stop spreading FUD. I know that, without DreamWeaver, Phillip would
>> not even be able to *have* a web site online.
> 
> Geez.  Do you feel good about yourself now "BS Nasty"?

As long as Phillip spreads FUD, yes I do.

> At least he put forth an effort and created something for his family,
> regardless of what he used to do it. That's more than millions of
> other people have done.

The site he was discussing was not his regularly posted 'family' site,
but was for some sort of "association" - with members' data at risk to
public exposure. Would you think it is a good idea to let him go on and
expose their information to the public, when that was not what was
requested of him?

> Now go and blast every site designer that used FP to code sites
> instead, 

FrontPage?  Doesn't matter what the tool is, if the site is not doing
what it is supposed to be doing.

> and leave Phillip be.

What are your thoughts on allowing him to spread false information?

-- 
   -bts
   -Four wheels carry the body; two wheels move the soul
0
Beauregard
9/23/2010 4:14:32 PM
Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
> Phillip Jones wrote:
>
>> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>>> Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>>>>> So what is "Googel" going to do with your association members'
>>>>> names? Steal their bank accounts?
>>>>
>>>> If Google owns and knows the captcha database,  then it will be
>>>> easy to bypass the captcha and get private information. For example
>>>> I want to be able to put a membership list of the members of the
>>>> association: names, business names, addresses, Phones, emails for
>>>> the members to view. Now because Google owns the best Captcha
>>>> software company there is out there, there now, no secure method of
>>>> doing so.
>>>
>>> You need to explain how you were planning on using a CAPTCHA image
>>> on the association's login page. Does it not already have a user
>>> name and a password assigned to each member? How will a distorted
>>> image give Google the user's password?
>>>
>>> I have a site with exactly what you state you want to do. It's for a
>>> club. There is a Members Only portion of the site, and nobody can
>>> enter it without knowing a user's name and individual password. What
>>> good would a CAPTCHA do for a page like that?  Did you ever have to
>>> enter a CAPTCHA value when you log into your bank's pages for your
>>> account details?
>>>
>>> If you are *not* using name and password access, it's your fault if
>>> the private information is compromised.
>>>
>>> Google, nor any other search engine, cannot access my site.
>>
>> there are sections of website the association wants everyone to see.
>
> Great. The public part of the web site.
>
>> But then there would be one section the Members-Only section should
>> be hidden from view of Google and other  items such as Yahoo ,
>> Altavista an so on.
>
> Yeah, search engines. Great. What about non-members?
>
>> using a Captcha does the same thing as using a username and password
>> without the need for such and until Google bought  the leading
>> captcha software developer, It was as secure as having a user name
>> and password.
>
> Thanks for proving you don't know what a CAPTCHA is - or how to design a
> secure web site.

In captcha you are required Type a series of letters or  numbers that 
have been altered to make them difficult to read Only when the are 
correctly entered are you able to on continue on.

> It's a Turing test [1]. Are you a human or a robot? Unfortunately,
> CAPTCHA images have been cracked by bots. They are no longer secure.
>
> They will not keep out the general public, so what made you think you
> would have a private, members only section accessible only to the
> members? If any human on the planet goes to your entry page they can
> interpret the distorted image and gain access to your 'private'
> information.
>
> What happens if one of your members sends the link of the interior page
> where your association members are listed?  Will random access to that
> page redirect them back to the 'login' page?
>
> You *need* a username and password to keep - not only Google - but the
> _general public_ out of your private pages. And each and every single
> page inside the members-only section has to check and see if the user is
> logged in. Otherwise, it needs to send them to members/login.
>
> You should tell your association that you don't understand or know how
> to write a private web site.
>
> [1. Did you have to look that up? ]
>

If I have to put in a User Name /password system will for that page.
-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/23/2010 4:22:15 PM
Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
> Ed Mullen wrote:
>
>> The forms scripts I use that happen to use a captcha technique cannot
>> be accessed by anyone but a human being who can read and type.  Maybe
>> one day someone will build a piece of sw that can read a jumblepd-up
>> bunch of pixels and correctly respond to them but it isn't possible
>> right now.
>
> Just to set the record straight, Ed, google up this:
>
>     captcha cracked by spammers
>
> ..and read away. CAPTCHAs are no longer secure, and haven't been for a
> couple of years. (Besides, they are annoying to humans.<g>  )
>

Thanks for the suggestion.  I stand corrected.  One interesting thing in 
the Wikipedia article I read was the success rate crackers have had 
cracking image captchas so far are less than 100%.  Some are only at 30% 
or so.

> It's very obvious Phillip knows not of what he speaks, and he should
> stop spreading FUD. I know that, without DreamWeaver, Phillip would not
> even be able to *have* a web site online.
>

Yes, well, Phillip is a nice fellow but he can sometimes "shoot from the 
hip".  :-)

-- 
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
If the odds are a million to one against something occurring, chances 
are 50-50 it will.
0
Ed
9/23/2010 4:25:51 PM
Jay Garcia wrote:
> On 22.09.2010 22:43, Phillip Jones wrote:
>
>   --- Original Message ---
>
>>   using a Captcha does the same thing as using a username and password
>> without the need for such and until Google bought  the leading captcha
>> software developer, It was as secure as having a user name and password.
>
> No it does not. You cannot "log in" to a sight with just a captcha
> routine but you CAN login w/o it by entering your user/pass. All captcha
> is, is a challenge-response mechanism to insure that computer generated
> access is not automatic via a script, etc.
>
> See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAPTCHA
>
Okay then Captcha is not the way to go. I'll have to investigate adding 
Username/Password control.

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/23/2010 4:26:46 PM
On 10-09-23 8:14 AM, Headfrog wrote:
> Ever since I upgraded to 2.0.8, it has crashed totally four or five
> times every morning. Then it seems stable for the remainder of the
> day....

In SeaMonke, go to the address about:crashes (without the quotes) and 
tell us your latest crash IDs.  We can then look at the data specific to 
your crash and have a better idea of what is causing the problem.

-- 
Chris Ilias <http://ilias.ca>
0
Chris
9/23/2010 4:28:38 PM
Phillip Jones wrote:

> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>> Phillip Jones wrote:
[let's do some snipping here...]
>>> using a Captcha does the same thing as using a username and password
>>> without the need for such and until Google bought  the leading
>>> captcha software developer, It was as secure as having a user name
>>> and password.
>> 
>> Thanks for proving you don't know what a CAPTCHA is - or how to
>> design a secure web site.
> 
> In captcha you are required Type a series of letters or  numbers that
> have been altered to make them difficult to read Only when the are
> correctly entered are you able to on continue on.

Yes, that is exactly what a CAPTCHA image is. What about the part where
you think it makes your members only secure from the public? 

>> It's a Turing test [1]. Are you a human or a robot? Unfortunately,
>> CAPTCHA images have been cracked by bots. They are no longer secure.

No response to that?

>> They will not keep out the general public, so what made you think you
>> would have a private, members only section accessible only to the
>> members? If any human on the planet goes to your entry page they can
>> interpret the distorted image and gain access to your 'private'
>> information.
>>
>> What happens if one of your members sends the link of the interior page
>> where your association members are listed?  Will random access to that
>> page redirect them back to the 'login' page?
>>
>> You *need* a username and password to keep - not only Google - but the
>> _general public_ out of your private pages. And each and every single
>> page inside the members-only section has to check and see if the user is
>> logged in. Otherwise, it needs to send them to members/login.
>>
>> You should tell your association that you don't understand or know how
>> to write a private web site.
>>
>> [1. Did you have to look that up? ]
> 
> If I have to put in a User Name /password system will for that page.

What database are you using? Which server-side programming language?
PHP, ASP, PERL?  You can't do it with just HTML.

Do you understand that it needs to include *all* pages in the members
only portion of the web site?  (You didn't respond to the rest of the
issues...)

-- 
   -bts
   -Four wheels carry the body; two wheels move the soul
0
Beauregard
9/23/2010 4:31:21 PM
Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
> Terry R. wrote:
>
>> Beauregard T. Shagnasty pounded out on the keyboard
>>> It's very obvious Phillip knows not of what he speaks, and he should
>>> stop spreading FUD. I know that, without DreamWeaver, Phillip would
>>> not even be able to *have* a web site online.
>>
>> Geez.  Do you feel good about yourself now "BS Nasty"?
>
> As long as Phillip spreads FUD, yes I do.
>
>> At least he put forth an effort and created something for his family,
>> regardless of what he used to do it. That's more than millions of
>> other people have done.
>
> The site he was discussing was not his regularly posted 'family' site,
> but was for some sort of "association" - with members' data at risk to
> public exposure. Would you think it is a good idea to let him go on and
> expose their information to the public, when that was not what was
> requested of him?
>
>> Now go and blast every site designer that used FP to code sites
>> instead,
>
> FrontPage?  Doesn't matter what the tool is, if the site is not doing
> what it is supposed to be doing.
>
>> and leave Phillip be.
>
> What are your thoughts on allowing him to spread false information?
>

If it doesn't do what I need then I will figure out how to add 
User-name/Password. But how does the User, the one that adds the private 
content get into a password protected  to change the content when needed.

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/23/2010 4:31:34 PM
On 23.09.2010 11:31, Phillip Jones wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> If it doesn't do what I need then I will figure out how to add
> User-name/Password. But how does the User, the one that adds the private
> content get into a password protected  to change the content when needed.

It would be nice, rather than constantly belittling you, that someone
with the time (I don't unfortunately) can take you aside via email or
otherwise to instruct you on proper procedure, etc. for what you intend
to accomplish, etc. May also benefit you to look into pre-programmed
applications such as WordPress, Joomla, PHPnuke and so on, all of which
use CAPTCHA - User/Pass authentication and so on. Most all of my PHP
sites, including the UFAQ run with RavenNuke, very very secure and
updated regularly. See www.ravenphpscripts.com, I am on the dev team btw.

-- 
*Jay Garcia - Netscape/Flock Champion*
www.ufaq.org
Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Flock - Thunderbird
0
Jay
9/23/2010 4:40:24 PM
Phillip Jones wrote:

> If it doesn't do what I need then I will figure out how to add
> User-name/Password. But how does the User, the one that adds the private
> content get into a password protected to change the content when needed.

1.  User goes to URL of main site
2.  User enters Username and Password and clicks Login
3.  User is taken to the private page(s)

Same way you'd login to any banking, credit card etc. company site. 
Until you do you can only view the "public" content on the site.  Once 
you login you have access to YOUR private account info.

I have a few private areas on my sites that are password protected. 
It's incredibly easy to create protected folders/directories in my 
hosting company's Control Panel.

-- 
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
Why do we drive on parkways and park on driveways?
0
Ed
9/23/2010 4:47:37 PM
On 23.09.2010 11:47, Ed Mullen wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> Phillip Jones wrote:
> 
>> If it doesn't do what I need then I will figure out how to add
>> User-name/Password. But how does the User, the one that adds the private
>> content get into a password protected to change the content when needed.
> 
> 1.  User goes to URL of main site
> 2.  User enters Username and Password and clicks Login
> 3.  User is taken to the private page(s)
> 
> Same way you'd login to any banking, credit card etc. company site.
> Until you do you can only view the "public" content on the site.  Once
> you login you have access to YOUR private account info.
> 
> I have a few private areas on my sites that are password protected. It's
> incredibly easy to create protected folders/directories in my hosting
> company's Control Panel.
> 

What Phillip needs is a template-structured boiler-plate application
such as I pointed out in my reply of a few mins ago.

-- 
*Jay Garcia - Netscape/Flock Champion*
www.ufaq.org
Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Flock - Thunderbird
0
Jay
9/23/2010 4:49:41 PM
Phillip Jones wrote:
> Jay Garcia wrote:
>> On 22.09.2010 22:43, Phillip Jones wrote:
>>
>> --- Original Message ---
>>
>>> using a Captcha does the same thing as using a username and password
>>> without the need for such and until Google bought the leading captcha
>>> software developer, It was as secure as having a user name and password.
>>
>> No it does not. You cannot "log in" to a sight with just a captcha
>> routine but you CAN login w/o it by entering your user/pass. All captcha
>> is, is a challenge-response mechanism to insure that computer generated
>> access is not automatic via a script, etc.
>>
>> See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAPTCHA
>>
> Okay then Captcha is not the way to go. I'll have to investigate adding
> Username/Password control.
>

Investigate what your hosting company provides regarding protected pages.

-- 
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
Save your breath, you'll need it to blow up your date.
0
Ed
9/23/2010 4:50:40 PM
Jay Garcia wrote:
> On 23.09.2010 11:47, Ed Mullen wrote:
>
>   --- Original Message ---
>
>> Phillip Jones wrote:
>>
>>> If it doesn't do what I need then I will figure out how to add
>>> User-name/Password. But how does the User, the one that adds the private
>>> content get into a password protected to change the content when needed.
>>
>> 1.  User goes to URL of main site
>> 2.  User enters Username and Password and clicks Login
>> 3.  User is taken to the private page(s)
>>
>> Same way you'd login to any banking, credit card etc. company site.
>> Until you do you can only view the "public" content on the site.  Once
>> you login you have access to YOUR private account info.
>>
>> I have a few private areas on my sites that are password protected. It's
>> incredibly easy to create protected folders/directories in my hosting
>> company's Control Panel.
>>
>
> What Phillip needs is a template-structured boiler-plate application
> such as I pointed out in my reply of a few mins ago.
>

I'm not sure why, Jay, if all he wants to do is protect Web pages.  His 
hosting company ought to provide that capability via its Control Panel. 
  If not, he ought to change hosts.

-- 
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
"That's a hell of an ambition, to be mellow. It's like wanting to be 
senile." -  Randy Newman
0
Ed
9/23/2010 4:52:52 PM
On 9/23/2010 12:31 PM Phillip Jones wrote:
> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>> Terry R. wrote:
>>
>>> Beauregard T. Shagnasty pounded out on the keyboard
>>>> It's very obvious Phillip knows not of what he speaks, and he should
>>>> stop spreading FUD. I know that, without DreamWeaver, Phillip would
>>>> not even be able to *have* a web site online.
>>>
>>> Geez. Do you feel good about yourself now "BS Nasty"?
>>
>> As long as Phillip spreads FUD, yes I do.
>>
>>> At least he put forth an effort and created something for his family,
>>> regardless of what he used to do it. That's more than millions of
>>> other people have done.
>>
>> The site he was discussing was not his regularly posted 'family' site,
>> but was for some sort of "association" - with members' data at risk to
>> public exposure. Would you think it is a good idea to let him go on and
>> expose their information to the public, when that was not what was
>> requested of him?
>>
>>> Now go and blast every site designer that used FP to code sites
>>> instead,
>>
>> FrontPage? Doesn't matter what the tool is, if the site is not doing
>> what it is supposed to be doing.
>>
>>> and leave Phillip be.
>>
>> What are your thoughts on allowing him to spread false information?
>>
>
> If it doesn't do what I need then I will figure out how to add
> User-name/Password. But how does the User, the one that adds the private
> content get into a password protected to change the content when needed.
>

An old Java based program (from 1997) that I used when I needed secure
pages was RiadaLock.  I see it's still available at:

http://www.freedownloadscenter.com/Web_Authoring/Java_Programming_Tools/RiadaLock.html

Whether it still works or not, I don't know.  I haven't needed it's 
capabilities in the last 5 years.  But it was still working then.

-- 
Ed
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1zhwu/
Powered by SeaMonkey: http://www.seamonkey-project.org/

"Only a free and unrestrained press can effectively expose deception
in government.   -Hugo Black, Supreme Court Justice
0
W3BNR
9/23/2010 5:17:11 PM
On 9/23/2010 9:14 AM On a whim, Beauregard T. Shagnasty pounded out on 
the keyboard

> Terry R. wrote:
>
>> Beauregard T. Shagnasty pounded out on the keyboard
>>> It's very obvious Phillip knows not of what he speaks, and he should
>>> stop spreading FUD. I know that, without DreamWeaver, Phillip would
>>> not even be able to *have* a web site online.
>> Geez.  Do you feel good about yourself now "BS Nasty"?
>
> As long as Phillip spreads FUD, yes I do.
>

The comment was regarding him being "able to have a web site online".

>> At least he put forth an effort and created something for his family,
>> regardless of what he used to do it. That's more than millions of
>> other people have done.
>
> The site he was discussing was not his regularly posted 'family' site,
> but was for some sort of "association" - with members' data at risk to
> public exposure. Would you think it is a good idea to let him go on and
> expose their information to the public, when that was not what was
> requested of him?

Again, the comment was regarding being "able to have a web site online", 
which is for his family's purposes.  You're twisting the two together.

>
>> Now go and blast every site designer that used FP to code sites
>> instead,
>
> FrontPage?  Doesn't matter what the tool is, if the site is not doing
> what it is supposed to be doing.

You blasted him for using Dreamweaver. That's the point. Thousands use 
FP and produce crappy websites. Phillip used what tool he could not 
knowing how to code by hand.

>
>> and leave Phillip be.
>
> What are your thoughts on allowing him to spread false information?
>

Wow, that's the first time that's happened in these groups...

Terry R.
-- 
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.
0
Terry
9/23/2010 5:25:41 PM
Robert Kaiser wrote:
> The Mozilla community discovered a crash some of our users have been
> seeing at startup after updates to our previous releases. To fix that
> issue, SeaMonkey 2.0.8 is now available for Windows, Mac, and Linux as a
> free download from www.seamonkey-project.org.
>
I was never bitten by the 2.0.7 bugs, but I did upgrade without incident. Great 
job finding the problem and getting a fix out quickly.

-- 
Bill Davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
   "We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked."  - from Slashdot
0
Bill
9/23/2010 5:37:36 PM
W3BNR wrote:
> On 9/23/2010 12:31 PM Phillip Jones wrote:
>> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>>> Terry R. wrote:
>>>
>>>> Beauregard T. Shagnasty pounded out on the keyboard
>>>>> It's very obvious Phillip knows not of what he speaks, and he should
>>>>> stop spreading FUD. I know that, without DreamWeaver, Phillip would
>>>>> not even be able to *have* a web site online.
>>>>
>>>> Geez. Do you feel good about yourself now "BS Nasty"?
>>>
>>> As long as Phillip spreads FUD, yes I do.
>>>
>>>> At least he put forth an effort and created something for his family,
>>>> regardless of what he used to do it. That's more than millions of
>>>> other people have done.
>>>
>>> The site he was discussing was not his regularly posted 'family' site,
>>> but was for some sort of "association" - with members' data at risk to
>>> public exposure. Would you think it is a good idea to let him go on and
>>> expose their information to the public, when that was not what was
>>> requested of him?
>>>
>>>> Now go and blast every site designer that used FP to code sites
>>>> instead,
>>>
>>> FrontPage? Doesn't matter what the tool is, if the site is not doing
>>> what it is supposed to be doing.
>>>
>>>> and leave Phillip be.
>>>
>>> What are your thoughts on allowing him to spread false information?
>>>
>>
>> If it doesn't do what I need then I will figure out how to add
>> User-name/Password. But how does the User, the one that adds the private
>> content get into a password protected to change the content when needed.
>>
>
> An old Java based program (from 1997) that I used when I needed secure
> pages was RiadaLock.  I see it's still available at:
>
> http://www.freedownloadscenter.com/Web_Authoring/Java_Programming_Tools/RiadaLock.html
>
> Whether it still works or not, I don't know.  I haven't needed it's
> capabilities in the last 5 years.  But it was still working then.
>
Dully noted and I copied the link to look at it.

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/23/2010 5:47:41 PM
Ed Mullen wrote:
> Jay Garcia wrote:
>> On 23.09.2010 11:47, Ed Mullen wrote:
>>
>>    --- Original Message ---
>>
>>> Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>
>>>> If it doesn't do what I need then I will figure out how to add
>>>> User-name/Password. But how does the User, the one that adds the private
>>>> content get into a password protected to change the content when needed.
>>>
>>> 1.  User goes to URL of main site
>>> 2.  User enters Username and Password and clicks Login
>>> 3.  User is taken to the private page(s)
>>>
>>> Same way you'd login to any banking, credit card etc. company site.
>>> Until you do you can only view the "public" content on the site.  Once
>>> you login you have access to YOUR private account info.
>>>
>>> I have a few private areas on my sites that are password protected. It's
>>> incredibly easy to create protected folders/directories in my hosting
>>> company's Control Panel.
>>>
>>
>> What Phillip needs is a template-structured boiler-plate application
>> such as I pointed out in my reply of a few mins ago.
>>
>
> I'm not sure why, Jay, if all he wants to do is protect Web pages.  His
> hosting company ought to provide that capability via its Control Panel.
>    If not, he ought to change hosts.
>
I'll investigate that when They get ready to go online. sounds like a 
better idea. I'm afraid they are trying to host it themselves to save 
money.

My own  Provider for my Website May (Lunar Pages they use cPanel). Never 
needed it because I don't wish to hide any of mine.

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/23/2010 5:52:00 PM
Jay Garcia wrote:
> On 23.09.2010 11:31, Phillip Jones wrote:
>
>   --- Original Message ---
>
>> If it doesn't do what I need then I will figure out how to add
>> User-name/Password. But how does the User, the one that adds the private
>> content get into a password protected  to change the content when needed.
>
> It would be nice, rather than constantly belittling you, that someone
> with the time (I don't unfortunately) can take you aside via email or
> otherwise to instruct you on proper procedure, etc. for what you intend
> to accomplish, etc. May also benefit you to look into pre-programmed
> applications such as WordPress, Joomla, PHPnuke and so on, all of which
> use CAPTCHA - User/Pass authentication and so on. Most all of my PHP
> sites, including the UFAQ run with RavenNuke, very very secure and
> updated regularly. See www.ravenphpscripts.com, I am on the dev team btw.
>

I have WordPress blog on my website. But for Now I don't know their 
provider. For Now I've been getting the skeleton of the site up and running

http://www.phillipmjones.net/SESDA/default.html

Don't knock the color scheme its their choice  I even added some 
rollover buttons when clicked will switch next page. all are using same 
layout and yes I am using a CSS

Set followup to Mozilla. General

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/23/2010 6:07:18 PM
Ed Mullen wrote:
> Phillip Jones wrote:
>
>> If it doesn't do what I need then I will figure out how to add
>> User-name/Password. But how does the User, the one that adds the private
>> content get into a password protected to change the content when needed.
>
> 1.  User goes to URL of main site
> 2.  User enters Username and Password and clicks Login
> 3.  User is taken to the private page(s)
>
> Same way you'd login to any banking, credit card etc. company site.
> Until you do you can only view the "public" content on the site.  Once
> you login you have access to YOUR private account info.
>
> I have a few private areas on my sites that are password protected.
> It's incredibly easy to create protected folders/directories in my
> hosting company's Control Panel.
>
will have to wait to find the groups provider.

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/23/2010 6:08:52 PM
Phillip Jones wrote:
> Ed Mullen wrote:
>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>> On 23.09.2010 11:47, Ed Mullen wrote:
>>>
>>> --- Original Message ---
>>>
>>>> Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If it doesn't do what I need then I will figure out how to add
>>>>> User-name/Password. But how does the User, the one that adds the
>>>>> private
>>>>> content get into a password protected to change the content when
>>>>> needed.
>>>>
>>>> 1. User goes to URL of main site
>>>> 2. User enters Username and Password and clicks Login
>>>> 3. User is taken to the private page(s)
>>>>
>>>> Same way you'd login to any banking, credit card etc. company site.
>>>> Until you do you can only view the "public" content on the site. Once
>>>> you login you have access to YOUR private account info.
>>>>
>>>> I have a few private areas on my sites that are password protected.
>>>> It's
>>>> incredibly easy to create protected folders/directories in my hosting
>>>> company's Control Panel.
>>>>
>>>
>>> What Phillip needs is a template-structured boiler-plate application
>>> such as I pointed out in my reply of a few mins ago.
>>>
>>
>> I'm not sure why, Jay, if all he wants to do is protect Web pages. His
>> hosting company ought to provide that capability via its Control Panel.
>> If not, he ought to change hosts.
>>
> I'll investigate that when They get ready to go online. sounds like a
> better idea. I'm afraid they are trying to host it themselves to save
> money.
>
> My own Provider for my Website May (Lunar Pages they use cPanel). Never
> needed it because I don't wish to hide any of mine.
>

http://1and1.com/

The Home package is less than $84 a year.  For that trivial sum it's not 
worth the headache of running their own server.

-- 
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
An expert is someone who is tenacious enough to spend an infinite amount 
of time muddling through the obscure to realize the obvious.
0
Ed
9/23/2010 6:09:26 PM
Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
> Phillip Jones wrote:
>
>> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>>> Phillip Jones wrote:
> [let's do some snipping here...]
>>>> using a Captcha does the same thing as using a username and password
>>>> without the need for such and until Google bought  the leading
>>>> captcha software developer, It was as secure as having a user name
>>>> and password.
>>>
>>> Thanks for proving you don't know what a CAPTCHA is - or how to
>>> design a secure web site.
>>
>> In captcha you are required Type a series of letters or  numbers that
>> have been altered to make them difficult to read Only when the are
>> correctly entered are you able to on continue on.
>
> Yes, that is exactly what a CAPTCHA image is. What about the part where
> you think it makes your members only secure from the public?
>
>>> It's a Turing test [1]. Are you a human or a robot? Unfortunately,
>>> CAPTCHA images have been cracked by bots. They are no longer secure.
>
> No response to that?
>
>>> They will not keep out the general public, so what made you think you
>>> would have a private, members only section accessible only to the
>>> members? If any human on the planet goes to your entry page they can
>>> interpret the distorted image and gain access to your 'private'
>>> information.
>>>
>>> What happens if one of your members sends the link of the interior page
>>> where your association members are listed?  Will random access to that
>>> page redirect them back to the 'login' page?
>>>
>>> You *need* a username and password to keep - not only Google - but the
>>> _general public_ out of your private pages. And each and every single
>>> page inside the members-only section has to check and see if the user is
>>> logged in. Otherwise, it needs to send them to members/login.
>>>
>>> You should tell your association that you don't understand or know how
>>> to write a private web site.
>>>
>>> [1. Did you have to look that up? ]
>>
>> If I have to put in a User Name /password system will for that page.
>
> What database are you using? Which server-side programming language?
> PHP, ASP, PERL?  You can't do it with just HTML.
>
> Do you understand that it needs to include *all* pages in the members
> only portion of the web site?  (You didn't respond to the rest of the
> issues...)
>
Current  have the Skeleton pages setup as html. should be able to 
convert them.

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/23/2010 6:14:18 PM
Ed Mullen wrote:
> Phillip Jones wrote:
>> Ed Mullen wrote:
>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>> On 23.09.2010 11:47, Ed Mullen wrote:
>>>>
>>>> --- Original Message ---
>>>>
>>>>> Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> If it doesn't do what I need then I will figure out how to add
>>>>>> User-name/Password. But how does the User, the one that adds the
>>>>>> private
>>>>>> content get into a password protected to change the content when
>>>>>> needed.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. User goes to URL of main site
>>>>> 2. User enters Username and Password and clicks Login
>>>>> 3. User is taken to the private page(s)
>>>>>
>>>>> Same way you'd login to any banking, credit card etc. company site.
>>>>> Until you do you can only view the "public" content on the site. Once
>>>>> you login you have access to YOUR private account info.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a few private areas on my sites that are password protected.
>>>>> It's
>>>>> incredibly easy to create protected folders/directories in my hosting
>>>>> company's Control Panel.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What Phillip needs is a template-structured boiler-plate application
>>>> such as I pointed out in my reply of a few mins ago.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm not sure why, Jay, if all he wants to do is protect Web pages. His
>>> hosting company ought to provide that capability via its Control Panel.
>>> If not, he ought to change hosts.
>>>
>> I'll investigate that when They get ready to go online. sounds like a
>> better idea. I'm afraid they are trying to host it themselves to save
>> money.
>>
>> My own Provider for my Website May (Lunar Pages they use cPanel). Never
>> needed it because I don't wish to hide any of mine.
>>
>
> http://1and1.com/
>
> The Home package is less than $84 a year.  For that trivial sum it's not
> worth the headache of running their own server.
>
I bookmarked the link. Lot of folks in the Electronics field are using 
GoDaddy.

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/23/2010 6:17:32 PM
Terry R. wrote:
> On 9/23/2010 9:14 AM On a whim, Beauregard T. Shagnasty pounded out on
> the keyboard
>
>> Terry R. wrote:
>>
>>> Beauregard T. Shagnasty pounded out on the keyboard
>>>> It's very obvious Phillip knows not of what he speaks, and he should
>>>> stop spreading FUD. I know that, without DreamWeaver, Phillip would
>>>> not even be able to *have* a web site online.
>>> Geez.  Do you feel good about yourself now "BS Nasty"?
>>
>> As long as Phillip spreads FUD, yes I do.
>>
>
> The comment was regarding him being "able to have a web site online".
>
>>> At least he put forth an effort and created something for his family,
>>> regardless of what he used to do it. That's more than millions of
>>> other people have done.
>>
>> The site he was discussing was not his regularly posted 'family' site,
>> but was for some sort of "association" - with members' data at risk to
>> public exposure. Would you think it is a good idea to let him go on and
>> expose their information to the public, when that was not what was
>> requested of him?
>
> Again, the comment was regarding being "able to have a web site online",
> which is for his family's purposes.  You're twisting the two together.
>
>>
>>> Now go and blast every site designer that used FP to code sites
>>> instead,
>>
>> FrontPage?  Doesn't matter what the tool is, if the site is not doing
>> what it is supposed to be doing.
>
> You blasted him for using Dreamweaver. That's the point. Thousands use
> FP and produce crappy websites. Phillip used what tool he could not
> knowing how to code by hand.
>
>>
>>> and leave Phillip be.
>>
>> What are your thoughts on allowing him to spread false information?
>>
>
> Wow, that's the first time that's happened in these groups...
>
> Terry R.

Originally created crappy pages because I had to learn on my own without 
help what so ever, I was given originally DreamWeaver and told your web 
master of this website. Then when I made my own pages I tried to do the 
right thing originally with XHTML. Well times change and I updated my 
own site using HTML 4.0.1 Strict. But people made fun because I use 
Tables for photos. Still use some on two pages. But at least there are 
no error.

Now this other Association asked me the possibility of creating a site 
for them. As They liked what I had done with the original Association 
site I had worked on.

I  just need the one section Members only to be private. The other would 
be public information.

I frequent sites that use captcha before I can do anything (mostly to 
prove a person is doing something) I thought that might do.  But due to 
everyone ragging me found out that's not secure enough. So I will look 
into  username/password.

If you want to see how bad there current site is Look at
http://www.sesda.org

  That's it.

they want just more than basically Convention Page.  They use aspx pages 
in the original site.

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/23/2010 6:34:53 PM
Phillip Jones wrote:
> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>> Phillip Jones wrote:
>>
>>> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>>>> Phillip Jones wrote:
>> [let's do some snipping here...]
>>>>> using a Captcha does the same thing as using a username and password
>>>>> without the need for such and until Google bought the leading
>>>>> captcha software developer, It was as secure as having a user name
>>>>> and password.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for proving you don't know what a CAPTCHA is - or how to
>>>> design a secure web site.
>>>
>>> In captcha you are required Type a series of letters or numbers that
>>> have been altered to make them difficult to read Only when the are
>>> correctly entered are you able to on continue on.
>>
>> Yes, that is exactly what a CAPTCHA image is. What about the part where
>> you think it makes your members only secure from the public?
>>
>>>> It's a Turing test [1]. Are you a human or a robot? Unfortunately,
>>>> CAPTCHA images have been cracked by bots. They are no longer secure.
>>
>> No response to that?
>>
>>>> They will not keep out the general public, so what made you think you
>>>> would have a private, members only section accessible only to the
>>>> members? If any human on the planet goes to your entry page they can
>>>> interpret the distorted image and gain access to your 'private'
>>>> information.
>>>>
>>>> What happens if one of your members sends the link of the interior page
>>>> where your association members are listed? Will random access to that
>>>> page redirect them back to the 'login' page?
>>>>
>>>> You *need* a username and password to keep - not only Google - but the
>>>> _general public_ out of your private pages. And each and every single
>>>> page inside the members-only section has to check and see if the
>>>> user is
>>>> logged in. Otherwise, it needs to send them to members/login.
>>>>
>>>> You should tell your association that you don't understand or know how
>>>> to write a private web site.
>>>>
>>>> [1. Did you have to look that up? ]
>>>
>>> If I have to put in a User Name /password system will for that page.
>>
>> What database are you using? Which server-side programming language?
>> PHP, ASP, PERL? You can't do it with just HTML.
>>
>> Do you understand that it needs to include *all* pages in the members
>> only portion of the web site? (You didn't respond to the rest of the
>> issues...)
>>
> Current have the Skeleton pages setup as html. should be able to convert
> them.
>

You know, Phillip, many of us are happy to help you but:

1.  No URL
2.  I can figure out from your last post what the heck you are saying 
nor what you have actually done

-- 
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
Deja FU: The feeling that you've screwed this up before.
0
Ed
9/24/2010 2:23:35 AM
Phillip Jones wrote:
> Terry R. wrote:
>> On 9/23/2010 9:14 AM On a whim, Beauregard T. Shagnasty pounded out on
>> the keyboard
>>
>>> Terry R. wrote:
>>>
>>>> Beauregard T. Shagnasty pounded out on the keyboard
>>>>> It's very obvious Phillip knows not of what he speaks, and he should
>>>>> stop spreading FUD. I know that, without DreamWeaver, Phillip would
>>>>> not even be able to *have* a web site online.
>>>> Geez. Do you feel good about yourself now "BS Nasty"?
>>>
>>> As long as Phillip spreads FUD, yes I do.
>>>
>>
>> The comment was regarding him being "able to have a web site online".
>>
>>>> At least he put forth an effort and created something for his family,
>>>> regardless of what he used to do it. That's more than millions of
>>>> other people have done.
>>>
>>> The site he was discussing was not his regularly posted 'family' site,
>>> but was for some sort of "association" - with members' data at risk to
>>> public exposure. Would you think it is a good idea to let him go on and
>>> expose their information to the public, when that was not what was
>>> requested of him?
>>
>> Again, the comment was regarding being "able to have a web site online",
>> which is for his family's purposes. You're twisting the two together.
>>
>>>
>>>> Now go and blast every site designer that used FP to code sites
>>>> instead,
>>>
>>> FrontPage? Doesn't matter what the tool is, if the site is not doing
>>> what it is supposed to be doing.
>>
>> You blasted him for using Dreamweaver. That's the point. Thousands use
>> FP and produce crappy websites. Phillip used what tool he could not
>> knowing how to code by hand.
>>
>>>
>>>> and leave Phillip be.
>>>
>>> What are your thoughts on allowing him to spread false information?
>>>
>>
>> Wow, that's the first time that's happened in these groups...
>>
>> Terry R.
>
> Originally created crappy pages because I had to learn on my own without
> help what so ever, I was given originally DreamWeaver and told your web
> master of this website. Then when I made my own pages I tried to do the
> right thing originally with XHTML. Well times change and I updated my
> own site using HTML 4.0.1 Strict. But people made fun because I use
> Tables for photos. Still use some on two pages. But at least there are
> no error.
>
> Now this other Association asked me the possibility of creating a site
> for them. As They liked what I had done with the original Association
> site I had worked on.
>
> I just need the one section Members only to be private. The other would
> be public information.
>
> I frequent sites that use captcha before I can do anything (mostly to
> prove a person is doing something) I thought that might do. But due to
> everyone ragging me found out that's not secure enough. So I will look
> into username/password.
>
> If you want to see how bad there current site is Look at
> http://www.sesda.org
>
> That's it.
>
> they want just more than basically Convention Page. They use aspx pages
> in the original site.
>

Phillip, if you have a thick enough skin take this discussion to one of 
these groups:

alt.html
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets
comp.inforsystems.www.authoring.html
alt.www.webmaster

Look, what you're trying to do is very simple assuming your hosting 
service provides the right tools.

If you don't already have a provider, research it.  You referenced Go 
Daddy.  Not a good reputation from what I've found.  We all have biases 
but, honestly, I've had great service from 1 and 1 dot com.  It's a 
super value.  But I wouldn't touch Go Daddy with a four foot Italian.

And, if I can help in a way that isn't appropriate for these groups, 
email me.

-- 
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
Rock is dead, long live paper & scissors.
0
Ed
9/24/2010 2:33:26 AM
Ed Mullen wrote:
> Phillip Jones wrote:
>> Terry R. wrote:
>>> On 9/23/2010 9:14 AM On a whim, Beauregard T. Shagnasty pounded out on
>>> the keyboard
>>>
>>>> Terry R. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Beauregard T. Shagnasty pounded out on the keyboard
>>>>>> It's very obvious Phillip knows not of what he speaks, and he should
>>>>>> stop spreading FUD. I know that, without DreamWeaver, Phillip would
>>>>>> not even be able to *have* a web site online.
>>>>> Geez. Do you feel good about yourself now "BS Nasty"?
>>>>
>>>> As long as Phillip spreads FUD, yes I do.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The comment was regarding him being "able to have a web site online".
>>>
>>>>> At least he put forth an effort and created something for his family,
>>>>> regardless of what he used to do it. That's more than millions of
>>>>> other people have done.
>>>>
>>>> The site he was discussing was not his regularly posted 'family' site,
>>>> but was for some sort of "association" - with members' data at risk to
>>>> public exposure. Would you think it is a good idea to let him go on and
>>>> expose their information to the public, when that was not what was
>>>> requested of him?
>>>
>>> Again, the comment was regarding being "able to have a web site online",
>>> which is for his family's purposes. You're twisting the two together.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Now go and blast every site designer that used FP to code sites
>>>>> instead,
>>>>
>>>> FrontPage? Doesn't matter what the tool is, if the site is not doing
>>>> what it is supposed to be doing.
>>>
>>> You blasted him for using Dreamweaver. That's the point. Thousands use
>>> FP and produce crappy websites. Phillip used what tool he could not
>>> knowing how to code by hand.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> and leave Phillip be.
>>>>
>>>> What are your thoughts on allowing him to spread false information?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Wow, that's the first time that's happened in these groups...
>>>
>>> Terry R.
>>
>> Originally created crappy pages because I had to learn on my own without
>> help what so ever, I was given originally DreamWeaver and told your web
>> master of this website. Then when I made my own pages I tried to do the
>> right thing originally with XHTML. Well times change and I updated my
>> own site using HTML 4.0.1 Strict. But people made fun because I use
>> Tables for photos. Still use some on two pages. But at least there are
>> no error.
>>
>> Now this other Association asked me the possibility of creating a site
>> for them. As They liked what I had done with the original Association
>> site I had worked on.
>>
>> I just need the one section Members only to be private. The other would
>> be public information.
>>
>> I frequent sites that use captcha before I can do anything (mostly to
>> prove a person is doing something) I thought that might do. But due to
>> everyone ragging me found out that's not secure enough. So I will look
>> into username/password.
>>
>> If you want to see how bad there current site is Look at
>> http://www.sesda.org
>>
>> That's it.
>>
>> they want just more than basically Convention Page. They use aspx pages
>> in the original site.
>>
>
> Phillip, if you have a thick enough skin take this discussion to one of
> these groups:
>
> alt.html
> comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets
> comp.inforsystems.www.authoring.html
> alt.www.webmaster
>
> Look, what you're trying to do is very simple assuming your hosting
> service provides the right tools.
>
> If you don't already have a provider, research it.  You referenced Go
> Daddy.  Not a good reputation from what I've found.  We all have biases
> but, honestly, I've had great service from 1 and 1 dot com.  It's a
> super value.  But I wouldn't touch Go Daddy with a four foot Italian.
>
> And, if I can help in a way that isn't appropriate for these groups,
> email me.
>

Already signed up to them already.
remember the last time about my personal site I was on the Stylesheet group

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/24/2010 1:44:09 PM
Ed Mullen wrote:
> Phillip Jones wrote:
>> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>>> Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>
>>>> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>>>>> Phillip Jones wrote:
>>> [let's do some snipping here...]
>>>>>> using a Captcha does the same thing as using a username and password
>>>>>> without the need for such and until Google bought the leading
>>>>>> captcha software developer, It was as secure as having a user name
>>>>>> and password.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for proving you don't know what a CAPTCHA is - or how to
>>>>> design a secure web site.
>>>>
>>>> In captcha you are required Type a series of letters or numbers that
>>>> have been altered to make them difficult to read Only when the are
>>>> correctly entered are you able to on continue on.
>>>
>>> Yes, that is exactly what a CAPTCHA image is. What about the part where
>>> you think it makes your members only secure from the public?
>>>
>>>>> It's a Turing test [1]. Are you a human or a robot? Unfortunately,
>>>>> CAPTCHA images have been cracked by bots. They are no longer secure.
>>>
>>> No response to that?
>>>
>>>>> They will not keep out the general public, so what made you think you
>>>>> would have a private, members only section accessible only to the
>>>>> members? If any human on the planet goes to your entry page they can
>>>>> interpret the distorted image and gain access to your 'private'
>>>>> information.
>>>>>
>>>>> What happens if one of your members sends the link of the interior page
>>>>> where your association members are listed? Will random access to that
>>>>> page redirect them back to the 'login' page?
>>>>>
>>>>> You *need* a username and password to keep - not only Google - but the
>>>>> _general public_ out of your private pages. And each and every single
>>>>> page inside the members-only section has to check and see if the
>>>>> user is
>>>>> logged in. Otherwise, it needs to send them to members/login.
>>>>>
>>>>> You should tell your association that you don't understand or know how
>>>>> to write a private web site.
>>>>>
>>>>> [1. Did you have to look that up? ]
>>>>
>>>> If I have to put in a User Name /password system will for that page.
>>>
>>> What database are you using? Which server-side programming language?
>>> PHP, ASP, PERL? You can't do it with just HTML.
>>>
>>> Do you understand that it needs to include *all* pages in the members
>>> only portion of the web site? (You didn't respond to the rest of the
>>> issues...)
>>>
>> Current have the Skeleton pages setup as html. should be able to convert
>> them.
>>
>
> You know, Phillip, many of us are happy to help you but:
>
> 1.  No URL
> 2.  I can figure out from your last post what the heck you are saying
> nor what you have actually done
>
http://www.sesda.org/                      original site

http://www.phillipmjones.net/SESDA/default.html my skeleton pages.

Don't laugh at the color scheme.

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/24/2010 1:51:55 PM
On 09/23/2010 09:49 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
....
> What Phillip needs is a template-structured boiler-plate application
> such as I pointed out in my reply of a few mins ago.
> 

What Phillip needs is a new thread as he, and his responders, have
totally borked this thread from it's original "SeaMonkey 2.0.8
Available". You folks ought to at least have the courtesy to tag your
subthreads so that others do not have to wade through seemingly endless
off-topic "advise" to PJ.

0
NoOp
9/26/2010 9:06:59 PM
NoOp wrote:
> On 09/23/2010 09:49 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
> ...
>> What Phillip needs is a template-structured boiler-plate application
>> such as I pointed out in my reply of a few mins ago.
>>
>
> What Phillip needs is a new thread as he, and his responders, have
> totally borked this thread from it's original "SeaMonkey 2.0.8
> Available". You folks ought to at least have the courtesy to tag your
> subthreads so that others do not have to wade through seemingly endless
> off-topic "advise" to PJ.
>

Where have you been, was redirected to general and no new comments for 
several days now on either group.

-- 
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net/       mailto:pjones1@kimbanet.com
0
Phillip
9/26/2010 11:09:33 PM
Robert Kaiser wrote:
> The Mozilla community discovered a crash some of our users have been
> seeing at startup after updates to our previous releases. To fix that
> issue, SeaMonkey 2.0.8 is now available for Windows, Mac, and Linux as a
> free download from www.seamonkey-project.org.
>
Boring! Installed and works. No excitement. Didn't see the problem so can't say 
if you fixed it, but looks good to me. Linux Fedora 13.

-- 
Bill Davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com>
   "We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked."  - from Slashdot
0
Bill
9/29/2010 7:50:24 PM
Bill Davidsen schrieb:
> Boring! Installed and works. No excitement.

Hah!

Now I guess we just need to find you a release that provides more 
excitement... ;-)

Robert Kaiser


-- 
Note that any statements of mine - no matter how passionate - are never 
meant to be offensive but very often as food for thought or possible 
arguments that we as a community needs answers to. And most of the time, 
I even appreciate irony and fun! :)
0
Robert
9/30/2010 10:34:30 AM
On 9/30/2010 6:34 AM Robert Kaiser wrote:
> Bill Davidsen schrieb:
>> Boring! Installed and works. No excitement.
>
> Hah!
>
> Now I guess we just need to find you a release that provides more
> excitement... ;-)
>
> Robert Kaiser
>
>

Be daring - use 2.0.9pre :-)

-- 
Ed
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1zhwu/
Powered by SeaMonkey: http://www.seamonkey-project.org/

There are only two great currents in the history of mankind:
the baseness which makes conservatives and the envy which makes
revolutionaries.  ~Edmond de Goncourt and Jules de Goncourt
0
W3BNR
9/30/2010 1:18:22 PM
W3BNR wrote:
> On 9/30/2010 6:34 AM Robert Kaiser wrote:
>> Bill Davidsen schrieb:
>>> Boring! Installed and works. No excitement.
>>
>> Hah!
>>
>> Now I guess we just need to find you a release that provides more
>> excitement... ;-)
>>
>> Robert Kaiser
>>
>>
>
> Be daring - use 2.0.9pre :-)
>

Be more daring and use 2.1b1.

WLS
0
WLS
9/30/2010 2:37:53 PM
On 9/30/2010 10:37 AM WLS wrote:
> W3BNR wrote:
>> On 9/30/2010 6:34 AM Robert Kaiser wrote:
>>> Bill Davidsen schrieb:
>>>> Boring! Installed and works. No excitement.
>>>
>>> Hah!
>>>
>>> Now I guess we just need to find you a release that provides more
>>> excitement... ;-)
>>>
>>> Robert Kaiser
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Be daring - use 2.0.9pre :-)
>>
>
> Be more daring and use 2.1b1.
>
> WLS

I am running it on a different computer.  But not really putting it through its 
paces.  Using 2.0.9pre on this one (main system).

-- 
Ed
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1zhwu/
Powered by SeaMonkey: http://www.seamonkey-project.org/

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
  temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
                               -Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
0
W3BNR
9/30/2010 3:43:18 PM
W3BNR wrote:
> On 9/30/2010 10:37 AM WLS wrote:
>> W3BNR wrote:
>>> On 9/30/2010 6:34 AM Robert Kaiser wrote:
>>>> Bill Davidsen schrieb:
>>>>> Boring! Installed and works. No excitement.
>>>>
>>>> Hah!
>>>>
>>>> Now I guess we just need to find you a release that provides more
>>>> excitement... ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Robert Kaiser
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Be daring - use 2.0.9pre :-)
>>>
>>
>> Be more daring and use 2.1b1.
>>
>> WLS
>
> I am running it on a different computer. But not really putting it
> through its paces. Using 2.0.9pre on this one (main system).
>

I have SM2.1b1, TB3.3a1pre Shredder (love that name), and FF4b6 on this 
PC, with different profiles for SM and FF.

Now if I could only figure out to get the plugins I have already 
installed for SM 2.0.8 and FF 3.6.10 to work with the new versions I'd 
put them through their paces.

I did it once before, but don't remember how.

WLS
0
WLS
9/30/2010 4:17:53 PM
WLS wrote:
> W3BNR wrote:
>> On 9/30/2010 10:37 AM WLS wrote:
>>> W3BNR wrote:
>>>> On 9/30/2010 6:34 AM Robert Kaiser wrote:
>>>>> Bill Davidsen schrieb:
>>>>>> Boring! Installed and works. No excitement.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hah!
>>>>>
>>>>> Now I guess we just need to find you a release that provides more
>>>>> excitement... ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Robert Kaiser
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Be daring - use 2.0.9pre :-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> Be more daring and use 2.1b1.
>>>
>>> WLS
>>
>> I am running it on a different computer. But not really putting it
>> through its paces. Using 2.0.9pre on this one (main system).
>>
>
> I have SM2.1b1, TB3.3a1pre Shredder (love that name), and FF4b6 on this
> PC, with different profiles for SM and FF.
>
> Now if I could only figure out to get the plugins I have already
> installed for SM 2.0.8 and FF 3.6.10 to work with the new versions I'd
> put them through their paces.
>
> I did it once before, but don't remember how.

You need to download the .xpi file, unzip it, edit the install.rdf file 
to up the maximum version level for the app (SM or FF), then re-zip the 
..xpi file and install it.  It may work or not.

-- 
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
Stable relationships are for horses.
0
Ed
9/30/2010 5:59:01 PM
Ed Mullen wrote:
> WLS wrote:
>> W3BNR wrote:
>>> On 9/30/2010 10:37 AM WLS wrote:
>>>> W3BNR wrote:
>>>>> On 9/30/2010 6:34 AM Robert Kaiser wrote:
>>>>>> Bill Davidsen schrieb:
>>>>>>> Boring! Installed and works. No excitement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hah!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now I guess we just need to find you a release that provides more
>>>>>> excitement... ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Robert Kaiser
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Be daring - use 2.0.9pre :-)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Be more daring and use 2.1b1.
>>>>
>>>> WLS
>>>
>>> I am running it on a different computer. But not really putting it
>>> through its paces. Using 2.0.9pre on this one (main system).
>>>
>>
>> I have SM2.1b1, TB3.3a1pre Shredder (love that name), and FF4b6 on this
>> PC, with different profiles for SM and FF.
>>
>> Now if I could only figure out to get the plugins I have already
>> installed for SM 2.0.8 and FF 3.6.10 to work with the new versions I'd
>> put them through their paces.
>>
>> I did it once before, but don't remember how.
>
> You need to download the .xpi file, unzip it, edit the install.rdf file
> to up the maximum version level for the app (SM or FF), then re-zip the
> .xpi file and install it. It may work or not.
>

Did I say extensions? I'm sorry I meant plug-ins, like Java, Flash, etc

WLS
0
WLS
9/30/2010 7:42:56 PM
WLS wrote:
> Ed Mullen wrote:
>> WLS wrote:
>>> W3BNR wrote:
>>>> On 9/30/2010 10:37 AM WLS wrote:
>>>>> W3BNR wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/30/2010 6:34 AM Robert Kaiser wrote:
>>>>>>> Bill Davidsen schrieb:
>>>>>>>> Boring! Installed and works. No excitement.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hah!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now I guess we just need to find you a release that provides more
>>>>>>> excitement... ;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Robert Kaiser
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Be daring - use 2.0.9pre :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Be more daring and use 2.1b1.
>>>>>
>>>>> WLS
>>>>
>>>> I am running it on a different computer. But not really putting it
>>>> through its paces. Using 2.0.9pre on this one (main system).
>>>>
>>>
>>> I have SM2.1b1, TB3.3a1pre Shredder (love that name), and FF4b6 on this
>>> PC, with different profiles for SM and FF.
>>>
>>> Now if I could only figure out to get the plugins I have already
>>> installed for SM 2.0.8 and FF 3.6.10 to work with the new versions I'd
>>> put them through their paces.
>>>
>>> I did it once before, but don't remember how.
>>
>> You need to download the .xpi file, unzip it, edit the install.rdf file
>> to up the maximum version level for the app (SM or FF), then re-zip the
>> .xpi file and install it. It may work or not.
>>
>
> Did I say extensions? I'm sorry I meant plug-ins, like Java, Flash, etc

Ooops!  I read plugins but my brain thought extensions.

Not sure where Linux stores plugins but in Windows I believe by default 
they're stored in the program installation folder in a sub-folder called 
"plugins".  Some are installed in other locations but SM scans for them 
automatically.

To find them in your older installations set the preference 
plugin.expose_full_path to true then do Help - About Plugins in SM. In 
FF enter about:plugins in the location bar and hit Enter.

Once you locate them you can copy them to the new installations.

-- 
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
What's so great about sliced bread?  Isn't the bread slicer really more 
impressive?
0
Ed
9/30/2010 10:15:34 PM
Ed Mullen wrote:
> WLS wrote:
>> Ed Mullen wrote:
>>> WLS wrote:
>>>> W3BNR wrote:
>>>>> On 9/30/2010 10:37 AM WLS wrote:
>>>>>> W3BNR wrote:
>>>>>>> On 9/30/2010 6:34 AM Robert Kaiser wrote:
>>>>>>>> Bill Davidsen schrieb:
>>>>>>>>> Boring! Installed and works. No excitement.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hah!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now I guess we just need to find you a release that provides more
>>>>>>>> excitement... ;-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Robert Kaiser
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Be daring - use 2.0.9pre :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Be more daring and use 2.1b1.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> WLS
>>>>>
>>>>> I am running it on a different computer. But not really putting it
>>>>> through its paces. Using 2.0.9pre on this one (main system).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have SM2.1b1, TB3.3a1pre Shredder (love that name), and FF4b6 on this
>>>> PC, with different profiles for SM and FF.
>>>>
>>>> Now if I could only figure out to get the plugins I have already
>>>> installed for SM 2.0.8 and FF 3.6.10 to work with the new versions I'd
>>>> put them through their paces.
>>>>
>>>> I did it once before, but don't remember how.
>>>
>>> You need to download the .xpi file, unzip it, edit the install.rdf file
>>> to up the maximum version level for the app (SM or FF), then re-zip the
>>> .xpi file and install it. It may work or not.
>>>
>>
>> Did I say extensions? I'm sorry I meant plug-ins, like Java, Flash, etc
>
> Ooops! I read plugins but my brain thought extensions.
>
> Not sure where Linux stores plugins but in Windows I believe by default
> they're stored in the program installation folder in a sub-folder called
> "plugins". Some are installed in other locations but SM scans for them
> automatically.
>
> To find them in your older installations set the preference
> plugin.expose_full_path to true then do Help - About Plugins in SM. In
> FF enter about:plugins in the location bar and hit Enter.
>
> Once you locate them you can copy them to the new installations.
>

I've located them but I think I'm screwed because of the new plugin 
container feature, and may have to download and install each one for 
each browser.

First I'm going to try using my FF 3.6.10 profile for FF 4 and see what 
happens, after I back it up of course.

WLS



0
WLS
9/30/2010 11:49:24 PM
Reply:

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