UTF-8 ??? <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">

I'm using the UTF-8 character set in my web pages, e.g. my meta tag seen 
above.

Is this the best character set to use?

Is there any reason to use a different character set?


-- 
Everybody has two dogs inside them, a good dog and an evil dog, both 
always fighting. It is up to each person to decide which dog to feed.
0
Greg
1/5/2008 5:34:49 PM
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"Greg" <.@.> wrote in message news:floete$30bv$1@news.grc.com...
> I'm using the UTF-8 character set in my web pages, e.g. my meta tag seen above.
>
> Is this the best character set to use?
>
> Is there any reason to use a different character set?
>
>

It's the one most common to all servers, especially windows.
Quite often utf_8 is embedded in web files as a Byte Order Mark
or BOM, which will cause problems for php pages on non windows servers.

Some info here on embedded utf-8 BOMs:
http://www.95isalive.com/expression/index.html


-- 

Steve
95isalive


0
95isalive
1/5/2008 6:44:42 PM
95isalive wrote:
> "Greg" <.@.> wrote in message news:floete$30bv$1@news.grc.com...
>> I'm using the UTF-8 character set in my web pages, e.g. my meta tag seen above.
>>
>> Is this the best character set to use?
>>
>> Is there any reason to use a different character set?
>>
>>
> 
> It's the one most common to all servers, especially windows.
> Quite often utf_8 is embedded in web files as a Byte Order Mark
> or BOM, which will cause problems for php pages on non windows servers.
> 
> Some info here on embedded utf-8 BOMs:
> http://www.95isalive.com/expression/index.html

Thanks for the reply. Interesting site. :)


I was just looking at something to do to my site today, wondering if I 
was using the right character set...

I write all my HTML, CSS and PHP manually, using Notepad, so the article 
doesn't really apply to me.

You know how it is. It ain't broke, let's fix it! :) :) :)

I should probably start another project, maybe go write a Windows app.


-- 
Everybody has two dogs inside them, a good dog and an evil dog, both 
always fighting. It is up to each person to decide which dog to feed.
0
Greg
1/5/2008 7:11:39 PM
"Greg" <.@.> wrote in message news:flokj0$40m$1@news.grc.com...
> 95isalive wrote:
>
>
> I was just looking at something to do to my site today, wondering if I was using the right character set...
>
> I write all my HTML, CSS and PHP manually, using Notepad, so the article doesn't really apply to me.
>
> You know how it is. It ain't broke, let's fix it! :) :) :)
>
> I should probably start another project, maybe go write a Windows app.
>
>

If you have the encoding dropdown in Notepad set to utf-8 when you click Save As,
Notepad automatically adds the utf-8 BOM to the page.

-- 

Steve
95isalive 


0
95isalive
1/5/2008 9:48:51 PM
95isalive wrote:
> "Greg" <.@.> wrote in message news:flokj0$40m$1@news.grc.com...
>> 95isalive wrote:
>>
>>
>> I was just looking at something to do to my site today, wondering if I was using the right character set...
>>
>> I write all my HTML, CSS and PHP manually, using Notepad, so the article doesn't really apply to me.
>>
>> You know how it is. It ain't broke, let's fix it! :) :) :)
>>
>> I should probably start another project, maybe go write a Windows app.
>>
>>
> 
> If you have the encoding dropdown in Notepad set to utf-8 when you click Save As,
> Notepad automatically adds the utf-8 BOM to the page.
> 
Oh no, no, no! I want my text files as ANSI, not UTF-8!

-- 
Everybody has two dogs inside them, a good dog and an evil dog, both 
always fighting. It is up to each person to decide which dog to feed.
0
Greg
1/5/2008 10:19:01 PM
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 14:19:01 -0800, Greg wrote:

> Oh no, no, no! I want my text files as ANSI, not UTF-8!

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Unicode.html

-- 
Bob Trevithick
0
Bob
1/5/2008 10:21:28 PM
Bob Trevithick wrote:

>> Oh no, no, no! I want my text files as ANSI, not UTF-8!
 
> http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Unicode.html

UTF-8/Unicode are a horrible mess. Ppl with exotic and large character sets
- mostly Asiats - who were supposedly to benefit from Unicode, /hate/ it.

For our "western" languages, viz those using a latin-based alphabets (even
with diactitic marks), the old web standard code "iso8859-1" is sweet.
I hate UTF-8 pages. They won't display correctly in many older/simpler
browsers (in Windows, try Offbyone). Even when the browser is UTF-8
capable, there are oft problems where <meta> tags inserted by the page
author or his authoring software, page headers inserted by the HTTP server,
and the idea which the browser itself has of what the page charset is
(so-called autodetect!) conflict.

KILL Unicode !

-- 
Ninho
0
Ninho
1/6/2008 4:09:59 PM
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 17:09:59 +0100, Ninho wrote:

> For our "western" languages, viz those using a latin-based alphabets
> (even with diactitic marks), the old web standard code "iso8859-1" is
> sweet. I hate UTF-8 pages. They won't display correctly in many
> older/simpler browsers (in Windows, try Offbyone). Even when the browser
> is UTF-8 capable, there are oft problems where <meta> tags inserted by
> the page author or his authoring software, page headers inserted by the
> HTTP server, and the idea which the browser itself has of what the page
> charset is (so-called autodetect!) conflict.
> 
> KILL Unicode !

I've got an old version of Windows Home in a virtual machine here.  I'll 
get OffByOne and see how my pages look.  By the way, does anybody know 
why that browser is named that??  :)

-- 
Bob Trevithick
0
Bob
1/7/2008 7:44:40 PM
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 17:09:59 +0100, Ninho <don't.use.this!@example.net>  
wrote:

> For our "western" languages, viz those using a latin-based alphabets  
> (even
> with diactitic marks), the old web standard code "iso8859-1" is sweet.
> I hate UTF-8 pages. They won't display correctly in many older/simpler
> browsers (in Windows, try Offbyone). Even when the browser is UTF-8
> capable, there are oft problems where <meta> tags inserted by the page
> author or his authoring software, page headers inserted by the HTTP  
> server,
> and the idea which the browser itself has of what the page charset is
> (so-called autodetect!) conflict.

Couldn't agree more. Don't even mention form fields, interaction with  
other sites, etcetera. If you don't need UTF-8, don't use it. iso8859-1  
will do for most Western-European languages, but if you need the euro-sign  
you will have to use iso8859-15 instead. Always make sure that the page  
header sent by the server contains the same character-encoding as your  
meta tags.
0
botsing
1/7/2008 8:45:21 PM
While dumping the grc.techtalk bit bucket, I heard Bob Trevithick say:

> On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 17:09:59 +0100, Ninho wrote:
> 
>> For our "western" languages, viz those using a latin-based alphabets
>> (even with diactitic marks), the old web standard code "iso8859-1" is
>> sweet. I hate UTF-8 pages. They won't display correctly in many
>> older/simpler browsers (in Windows, try Offbyone). Even when the browser
>> is UTF-8 capable, there are oft problems where <meta> tags inserted by
>> the page author or his authoring software, page headers inserted by the
>> HTTP server, and the idea which the browser itself has of what the page
>> charset is (so-called autodetect!) conflict.
>> 
>> KILL Unicode !
> 
> I've got an old version of Windows Home in a virtual machine here.  I'll 
> get OffByOne and see how my pages look.  By the way, does anybody know 
> why that browser is named that??  :)

OffByOne works nicely in Wine, Bob. I recall reading somewhere a long
time ago, that "Off By One Productions", the division of Home Page
Software that puts out the browser, was named for the fairly common
"fence post error" that often bites programmers...

-- 
Dutch
PCLinuxOS 2007
Registered Linux User #391111
0
Dutch
1/7/2008 8:45:22 PM
On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 15:45:22 -0500, Dutch wrote:

> While dumping the grc.techtalk bit bucket, I heard Bob Trevithick say:
> 
>> On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 17:09:59 +0100, Ninho wrote:
>> 
>>> For our "western" languages, viz those using a latin-based alphabets
>>> (even with diactitic marks), the old web standard code "iso8859-1" is
>>> sweet. I hate UTF-8 pages. They won't display correctly in many
>>> older/simpler browsers (in Windows, try Offbyone). Even when the
>>> browser is UTF-8 capable, there are oft problems where <meta> tags
>>> inserted by the page author or his authoring software, page headers
>>> inserted by the HTTP server, and the idea which the browser itself has
>>> of what the page charset is (so-called autodetect!) conflict.
>>> 
>>> KILL Unicode !
>> 
>> I've got an old version of Windows Home in a virtual machine here. 
>> I'll get OffByOne and see how my pages look.  By the way, does anybody
>> know why that browser is named that??  :)
> 
> OffByOne works nicely in Wine, Bob. I recall reading somewhere a long
> time ago, that "Off By One Productions", the division of Home Page
> Software that puts out the browser, was named for the fairly common
> "fence post error" that often bites programmers...

Hmm.  If you had an error like that would you fix it, or name your 
company after it?  :-)

-- 
Bob Trevithick
0
Bob
1/7/2008 9:04:02 PM
On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 21:45:21 +0100, botsing wrote:

> Couldn't agree more. Don't even mention form fields, interaction with
> other sites, etcetera. If you don't need UTF-8, don't use it. iso8859-1
> will do for most Western-European languages, but if you need the
> euro-sign you will have to use iso8859-15 instead. Always make sure that
> the page header sent by the server contains the same character-encoding
> as your meta tags.

"If you don't need UTF-8..."  --  When would someone need it?  I've been 
using it routinely, because, well, my Linux machine produces pages that 
way, and my hosting service runs Linux.  In short, I've been using it 
because I thought that was the standard now.  In other words, I don't 
know any better.  Bad idea, eh?

-- 
Bob Trevithick
0
Bob
1/7/2008 9:07:20 PM
While dumping the grc.techtalk bit bucket, I heard Bob Trevithick say:

> On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 15:45:22 -0500, Dutch wrote:
> 
>> While dumping the grc.techtalk bit bucket, I heard Bob Trevithick say:
>>> On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 17:09:59 +0100, Ninho wrote:
>>> 
[...]
>>>> KILL Unicode !
>>> 
>>> I've got an old version of Windows Home in a virtual machine here. 
>>> I'll get OffByOne and see how my pages look.  By the way, does anybody
>>> know why that browser is named that??  :)
>> 
>> OffByOne works nicely in Wine, Bob. I recall reading somewhere a long
>> time ago, that "Off By One Productions", the division of Home Page
>> Software that puts out the browser, was named for the fairly common
>> "fence post error" that often bites programmers...
> 
> Hmm.  If you had an error like that would you fix it, or name your 
> company after it?  :-)

Maybe they made their mark by finding it in someone else's work? ;-)

-- 
Dutch
PCLinuxOS 2007
Registered Linux User #391111
0
Dutch
1/7/2008 9:11:53 PM
On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 22:07:20 +0100, Bob Trevithick <bob@ngds.net> wrote:=


> "If you don't need UTF-8..."  --  When would someone need it?  I've be=
en
> using it routinely, because, well, my Linux machine produces pages tha=
t
> way, and my hosting service runs Linux.  In short, I've been using it
> because I thought that was the standard now.  In other words, I don't
> know any better.  Bad idea, eh?

Not necessarily. As a rule I use the character-encoding that users  =

visiting my sites are most likely to use, i.e. what character-encoding  =

will be used if they are sending data in form fields on the website back=
  =

to the server. You can use accept-charset=3D"utf-8" (or any other charse=
t)  =

within the <form> statement in the html, but that isn't going to be a  =

guarantee that you will get that encoding back. You will always have to =
 =

check this on the server side.

Now here comes the problem. PHP is always assuming iso8859-1 as encoding=
  =

for string operations. There are utf-8 specific functions available in  =

most recent instances of PHP, but not in all. And you probably don't wan=
t  =

to use them if you don't need them because they are way slower than the =
 =

'normal' ones. So if you're expecting and only have to work with data  =

containing only iso8859-1 characters I would do everything I can to make=
  =

sure that it is iso8859-1 that I get back from the users. I still have t=
o  =

check and convert them to iso8859-1 if they happen to arrive as somethin=
g  =

else, but if I would always get utf-8 back, I would always have to conve=
rt.

0
botsing
1/8/2008 12:29:48 AM
On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 01:29:48 +0100, botsing wrote:

> Now here comes the problem. PHP is always assuming iso8859-1 as encoding
> for string operations. There are utf-8 specific functions available in
> most recent instances of PHP, but not in all. And you probably don't
> want to use them if you don't need them because they are way slower than
> the 'normal' ones. So if you're expecting and only have to work with
> data containing only iso8859-1 characters I would do everything I can to
> make sure that it is iso8859-1 that I get back from the users. I still
> have to check and convert them to iso8859-1 if they happen to arrive as
> something else, but if I would always get utf-8 back, I would always
> have to convert.

I'm going to have to study this a lot more, I see.  I thought the browser 
read the page until it hit the line:

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">

... at which point it then knew then encoding to use and would re-read the 
page using the encoding specified and continue to use that encoding.  
Guess that's not the case!  :-(

Thanks for the heads-up!

-- 
Bob Trevithick
0
Bob
1/8/2008 12:51:05 AM
On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 01:51:05 +0100, Bob Trevithick <bob@ngds.net> wrote:=


> I'm going to have to study this a lot more, I see.  I thought the brow=
ser
> read the page until it hit the line:
>
> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUTF-=
8">

Depends on the browser. The real problem starts when there is conflictin=
g  =

information, for example when the server is sending a page header claimi=
ng  =

charset A and the meta-tag claiming charset B. Some browsers will assume=
  =

A, some B, some do their own guess at it. If I'm not mistaken IE guesses=
,  =

Firefox assumes A and Opera assumes B, but it could be the other way  =

around.
0
botsing
1/8/2008 12:56:38 AM
This page should help you out:

http://www.phpwact.org/php/i18n/charsets



0
botsing
1/8/2008 12:58:53 AM
On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 01:56:38 +0100, botsing wrote:

> Depends on the browser. The real problem starts when there is
> conflicting information, for example when the server is sending a page
> header claiming charset A and the meta-tag claiming charset B. Some
> browsers will assume A, some B, some do their own guess at it. If I'm
> not mistaken IE guesses, Firefox assumes A and Opera assumes B, but it
> could be the other way around.

I'm seeing headers coming back from the server correctly.. i.e. they 
match what I think the doc is that I'm serving up.

I should have gone into something simpler.. brain surgery perhaps.  :-)

Thanks!

-- 
Bob Trevithick
0
Bob
1/8/2008 1:17:38 AM
On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 01:58:53 +0100, botsing wrote:

> This page should help you out:
> 
> http://www.phpwact.org/php/i18n/charsets

Thanks!  I'm encouraged by the header that says "Everybody gets it 
wrong."  <g>  Good to know I'm not alone!

-- 
Bob Trevithick
0
Bob
1/8/2008 1:18:53 AM
On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 02:18:53 +0100, Bob Trevithick <bob@ngds.net> wrote:

> Thanks!  I'm encouraged by the header that says "Everybody gets it
> wrong."  <g>  Good to know I'm not alone!

I'm glad to be of help. Six months ago I didn't have clue myself.
0
botsing
1/8/2008 1:55:44 AM
Dutch wrote:

> While dumping the grc.techtalk bit bucket .... :
 
>>>> I'll get OffByOne and see how my pages look.  By the way, does anybody
>>>> know why that browser is named that??  :)
 
>>> OffByOne works nicely in Wine, Bob. I recall reading somewhere a long
>>> time ago, that "Off By One Productions", the division of Home Page
>>> Software that puts out the browser, was named for the fairly common
>>> "fence post error" that often bites programmers...
>> 
>> Hmm.  If you had an error like that would you fix it, or name your
>> company after it?  :-)

> Maybe they made their mark by finding it in someone else's work? ;-)

<LOL> I would hazard the name means it - the browser - is off by one version
relative to HTML standards ? 

-- 
Ninho
0
Ninho
1/14/2008 7:52:28 PM
While dumping the grc.techtalk bit bucket, I heard Ninho say:

> Dutch wrote:
> 
>> While dumping the grc.techtalk bit bucket .... :
>  
>>>>> I'll get OffByOne and see how my pages look.  By the way, does anybody
>>>>> know why that browser is named that??  :)
>  
>>>> OffByOne works nicely in Wine, Bob. I recall reading somewhere a long
>>>> time ago, that "Off By One Productions", the division of Home Page
>>>> Software that puts out the browser, was named for the fairly common
>>>> "fence post error" that often bites programmers...
>>> 
>>> Hmm.  If you had an error like that would you fix it, or name your
>>> company after it?  :-)
> 
>> Maybe they made their mark by finding it in someone else's work? ;-)
> 
> <LOL> I would hazard the name means it - the browser - is off by one version
> relative to HTML standards ?

That could be it... :-)

-- 
Dutch
PCLinuxOS 2007
Registered Linux User #391111
0
Dutch
1/14/2008 9:11:20 PM
Ninho wrote:
> Dutch wrote:
> 
>> While dumping the grc.techtalk bit bucket .... :
>  
>>>>> I'll get OffByOne and see how my pages look.  By the way, does anybody
>>>>> know why that browser is named that??  :)
>  
>>>> OffByOne works nicely in Wine, Bob. I recall reading somewhere a long
>>>> time ago, that "Off By One Productions", the division of Home Page
>>>> Software that puts out the browser, was named for the fairly common
>>>> "fence post error" that often bites programmers...
>>> Hmm.  If you had an error like that would you fix it, or name your
>>> company after it?  :-)
> 
>> Maybe they made their mark by finding it in someone else's work? ;-)
> 
> <LOL> I would hazard the name means it - the browser - is off by one version
> relative to HTML standards ? 

No, "off by one" is a common software term. It refers to the mistake of 
referencing an array based upon the number "1" being the first element 
rather than the correct number "0" is the first element of the array. 
It's a typical beginner's mistake.

I'm pretty sure that's what they meant, although of course there's no 
objective way of determining that without asking them.


-- 
Everybody has two dogs inside them, a good dog and an evil dog, both 
always fighting. It is up to each person to decide which dog to feed.
0
Greg
1/15/2008 2:52:01 PM
Greg wrote:

> No, "off by one" is a common software term. It refers to the mistake of 
> referencing an array based upon the number "1" being the first element 
> rather than the correct number "0" is the first element of the array. 
> It's a typical beginner's mistake.

I had a compiler that had a switch to let you set it to start arrays at 
"1" rather than the usual "0".

The problem was, I kept forgetting how I had set it! :-(

Another common mistake was using the wrong "jump".  A company named JNE, 
(jump if not equal), might be successful.

-- 
Virg Wall

PCLinuxOS 2007
MEPIS 7.0
0
VWWall
1/15/2008 5:32:47 PM
While dumping the grc.techtalk bit bucket, I heard Greg say:

> Ninho wrote:
>> Dutch wrote:
>> 
>>> While dumping the grc.techtalk bit bucket .... :
>>  
>>>>>> I'll get OffByOne and see how my pages look.  By the way, does anybody
>>>>>> know why that browser is named that??  :)
>>  
>>>>> OffByOne works nicely in Wine, Bob. I recall reading somewhere a long
>>>>> time ago, that "Off By One Productions", the division of Home Page
>>>>> Software that puts out the browser, was named for the fairly common
>>>>> "fence post error" that often bites programmers...
>>>> Hmm.  If you had an error like that would you fix it, or name your
>>>> company after it?  :-)
    
>>> Maybe they made their mark by finding it in someone else's work? ;-)
>> 
>> <LOL> I would hazard the name means it - the browser - is off by one version
>> relative to HTML standards ? 
> 
> No, "off by one" is a common software term. It refers to the mistake of 
> referencing an array based upon the number "1" being the first element 
> rather than the correct number "0" is the first element of the array. 
> It's a typical beginner's mistake.
> 
> I'm pretty sure that's what they meant, although of course there's no 
> objective way of determining that without asking them.

You're late to the party with that theory... :-)

From above: "...named for the fairly common "fence post error" that 
often bites programmers..."

-- 
Dutch
PCLinuxOS 2007
Registered Linux User #391111
0
Dutch
1/15/2008 5:46:48 PM
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how to have user set the <meta http-equiv="refresh" content="20"> during runtime
I have my page set up to refresh every 20 sec. but my users want to change the time at runtime or set it to no refresh at all i have seen other web sites that allow a user to change refresh time. How can I do this make your Meta run at server<meta runat="server" id="id1" http-equiv="" /> And on the server side use like this,             myMeta1.Content = "20"; // this value you can change based on user input value;'          ...

META HTTP-EQUIV="CONTENT-TYPE" CONTENT="application/vnd.ms-excel
Trying to get data to load up in Excel in the browser. I've done it before usingResponse.ContentType = "application/vnd.ms-excel"However, my delima is different this time. I'm working on a site where every page is a HTML page created using XML / XSLT files. One one particular page we will be creating an HTML table, that table needs to be displayed back to the user in Excel ( or at least the save file as dialog box ). So, when I'm creating my HTML via the XSLT / XML in the header section of the file, I put <META HTTP-EQUIV="CONTENT-TYPE&q...

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
Is there a way to manually put this delcaration at the top of at xml document being built by c# XmlTextWriter directly from a dataset?  Right now, all I'm getting is <NewDataSet><Table>.... Thanks, Jody Yes, call xmlTextWriter.WriteStartDocument() before writing out a dataset. But I wonder why do you need it? It's optional declaration.Oleg [XML MVP, MCPD]XmlLab.Net | http://blog.tkachenko.com The application consuming the xml expects it (sometime).  I'll try your fix.  Thank you. that got it.  you're the man. j...

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" ?>
Blank to all,I insert this fragment of code in order to ask to you if eĀ“possibile to insert between the lines a code in order to copy file from one determined folder to an other and if eĀ“possibile you could indicate some information to me since they are ignoring in matter?<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" ?><Button ID="APAGAR"><Left>60</Left><Top>65</Top><Width>70</Width><Height>76</Height><Image>skin\Apagar\ApagarPP.png</Image><ImagePressed>Skin\Apagar\ApagarP.png</ImagePre...

CB2009
We load and save files with XMLDocument and FastReport 4.7. I get an error message: Invalid version number, <?xml version=""1.1" encoding="utf-8"?> Is 1.1 a valid XML version? If version 1.1 is valid, when will XMLDocument be able to handle it? Larry. "Larry Griffiths" <larry@kalos-inc.com> wrote in message news:47706@forums.codegear.com... > Is 1.1 a valid XML version? Technically yes: http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/REC-xml11-20060816/ > If version 1.1 is valid, when will XMLDocument be able to handle it? ...

postback is deleting contents of <INPUT id="btnUpload" type="button" value="Upload" runat="server">
The <INPUT id="btnUpload" type="button" value="Upload" runat="server"> does not hold its value when there is a postBack to the server. Is there a way around this. Cheers What do you mean? The button text goes blank? Or do you mean it doesn't register it having a value a page reload after it being clicked? BrianBrian"Trust in the Lord and do what is good; dwell in the land and live securely. Take delight in the Lord, and He will give you your heart's desires" (Psalm 37: 3-4). I select the file i wish to upload, i ...

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" ?>
Hi, my web service returns this when generating a web method xml code. However, between the last " of the UTF-8 and the ? there is a space. When I build and debug my web service, it runs fine, but if I attempt to acces my web service through the browser on my localhost, this - <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" ?>   - does not appear, instead appears a message like this:  The XML document is not associated with styles. The document structure is representes above. (the original message is ir Portuguese, I've only translated!)And the rest o...

Web resources about - UTF-8 ??? <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> - grc.techtalk

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