Seamonkey??

I've been seeing the word in Firefox discussions for some time now,
without ever realizing it was a browser, much less a successor to Mozilla
of old. (I think I had it confused with something called greasemonkey.)

So I got it, discovered its antecedents, and soon realized, sure enough,
it's one of those humongous, all-in-one, Ride-the-Web and Rule-the-Net
apps. That means I'm unlikely to want to do much with it, since I have a
mailer and a newsreader that wild horses couldn't drag me from.

I do run Opera, though, because it has several virtues (like tabs,
redirection control, etc.), and one of them hasn't been cloned yet afaik :
it lets me sort and arrange my bookmarks any way I want -- and is
therefore my repository for them.

So what about Seamonkey? I never used to even launch Mozilla unless I
wanted an expendable use -- some reason to look at some site that might
trash my whole browser. I could use Seamonkey just for that; but if it's
changed enough to get a completely new name, it may have virtues I wot not
of. 

What do the rest of you find to be its pros & cons?

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, Linux (Fedora) Convert
FC5; Pine 4.64, Pan 0.14.2.91; Privoxy 3.0.3; CXO 5.0.1
Dillo 0.8.5, Opera 9.01, Firefox 1.5, Galeon 2.0.1, etc.
Remember I have little idea what I am talking about.

0
Beartooth
8/13/2006 3:54:39 PM
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Beartooth <beartooth@adelphia.net> wrote in
news:pan.2006.08.13.15.54.37.408560@adelphia.net: 

> I've been seeing the word in Firefox discussions for some time now,
> without ever realizing it was a browser, much less a successor to
> Mozilla of old. (I think I had it confused with something called
> greasemonkey.) 
> 
> So I got it, discovered its antecedents, and soon realized, sure
> enough, it's one of those humongous, all-in-one, Ride-the-Web and
> Rule-the-Net apps. That means I'm unlikely to want to do much with it,
> since I have a mailer and a newsreader that wild horses couldn't drag
> me from. 
> 
> I do run Opera, though, because it has several virtues (like tabs,
> redirection control, etc.), and one of them hasn't been cloned yet
> afaik : it lets me sort and arrange my bookmarks any way I want -- and
> is therefore my repository for them.
> 
> So what about Seamonkey? I never used to even launch Mozilla unless I
> wanted an expendable use -- some reason to look at some site that
> might trash my whole browser. I could use Seamonkey just for that; but
> if it's changed enough to get a completely new name, it may have
> virtues I wot not of. 
> 
> What do the rest of you find to be its pros & cons?

You've got it backwards.  The Mozilla suite was separated into two 
applications:  Firefox is a standalone web browser and Thunderbird is a 
standalone mailer and newsreader.  The original intention was that anyone 
who wanted all three functions could simply get both programs.  Some people 
who prefer all-in-one solutions created Seamonkey, which contains web 
browser, mailer and newsreader in one application just like the Mozilla 
suite used to be.  For the pros and cons of each approach, see 
<http://ilias.ca/SeamonkeyvsFirefox>.

If you want only a browser, Firefox is a better choice than Seamonkey.  
Firefox includes a powerful built-in bookmark manager, and yes, you can 
sort and arrange bookmarks any way you want.  Unlike Opera, Firefox stores 
bookmarks as a plain html file that IE, Opera and any other browser can 
open directly.  Here are a couple of web-based bookmark converters:
<http://dennis.moellegaard.dk/services/opera2mozilla/>
<http://collingrady.com/2004/08/04/opera-to-firefox-bookmarks-converter/>
0
Mark
8/13/2006 10:00:10 PM
Mark Blain <mblain2@yahoo.com> wrote in
<news:Xns981EB760CFF72mblainalbany@4.79.142.203>:

> You've got it backwards.  The Mozilla suite was separated into two
> applications:  Firefox is a standalone web browser and Thunderbird
> is a standalone mailer and newsreader.  The original intention was
> that anyone who wanted all three functions could simply get both
> programs.  Some people who prefer all-in-one solutions created
> Seamonkey, which contains web browser, mailer and newsreader in
> one application just like the Mozilla suite used to be.  For the
> pros and cons of each approach, see
> <http://ilias.ca/SeamonkeyvsFirefox>.

I wouldn't put it that way, but much of this is semantics.  What became
Firefox and Thunderbird didn't start by separating the Mozilla Suite
into components.  They began (first Firefox, then Thunderbird) as
projects building a browser and a mail/news client which used some of
the underlying codebase the Suite was using.  Much of the Suite's
framework was not used, but the Gecko rendering engine certainly was.
Once the Mozilla Foundation decided to drop support for the Mozilla
Suite project in favor of Firefox and Thunderbird, work on the suite
project was renamed and continued under the Seamonkey Council, so I
think it's legit to call SeaMonkey the (or at least a) successor to
Mozilla Suite.

As an aside, the Seamonkey wiki says now, "Finally, we are working on
migrating the entire application to the new backend framework used by
our close relatives Firefox, Thunderbird, etc., and are even moving
toward using the new XULRunner architecture."  If pressed about what
"backend framework" really means, I will run away, leaving you with the
correct impression that I don't really know.  ;)

-- 
�Q�
0
ISO
8/14/2006 7:56:06 AM
Mark Blain wrote:
> Beartooth <beartooth@adelphia.net> wrote in
> news:pan.2006.08.13.15.54.37.408560@adelphia.net: 
>
> 
> You've got it backwards.  The Mozilla suite was separated into two 
> applications:  Firefox is a standalone web browser and Thunderbird is a 
> standalone mailer and newsreader.  The original intention was that anyone 
> who wanted all three functions could simply get both programs.  Some people 
> who prefer all-in-one solutions created Seamonkey, which contains web 
> browser, mailer and newsreader in one application just like the Mozilla 
> suite used to be.  For the pros and cons of each approach, see 
> <http://ilias.ca/SeamonkeyvsFirefox>.
> 
>
One important detail you left out is that SeaMonkey also includes 
Composer for website creation, while if Firefox and Thunderbird are 
used, then one would use NVU for website preparation.

Miles
0
Miles
8/14/2006 6:23:08 PM
Miles <mileschap@REMOVEMEpacbell.net> wrote in news:ebqf2c$100i$1
@news.grc.com:

> One important detail you left out is that SeaMonkey also includes 
> Composer for website creation, while if Firefox and Thunderbird are 
> used, then one would use NVU for website preparation.

You're right.  Please notify Chris Ilias, who is trying to make a 
comprehensive list of the differences.  His email address is at
<http://ilias.ca/SeamonkeyvsFirefox>
0
Mark
8/14/2006 8:57:03 PM
Mark Blain <mblain2@yahoo.com> wrote in
<news:Xns981FACADC713Amblainalbany@4.79.142.203>:

> Miles <mileschap@REMOVEMEpacbell.net> wrote in news:ebqf2c$100i$1
> @news.grc.com:
>
>> One important detail you left out is that SeaMonkey also includes
>> Composer for website creation, while if Firefox and Thunderbird are
>> used, then one would use NVU for website preparation.
>
> You're right.  Please notify Chris Ilias, who is trying to make a
> comprehensive list of the differences.  His email address is at
> <http://ilias.ca/SeamonkeyvsFirefox>

Ilias notes Composer in the first paragraph on that page.

-- 
�Q�
0
ISO
8/14/2006 11:09:25 PM
"�Q�" <boxcars@gmx.net> wrote in message 
news:MrQ981FB8B406C53itsmeitsQ@QsFQDN.dyndns.org...
> Mark Blain <mblain2@yahoo.com> wrote in
> <news:Xns981FACADC713Amblainalbany@4.79.142.203>:
>
>> Miles <mileschap@REMOVEMEpacbell.net> wrote in news:ebqf2c$100i$1
>> @news.grc.com:
>>
>>> One important detail you left out is that SeaMonkey also includes
>>> Composer for website creation, while if Firefox and Thunderbird are
>>> used, then one would use NVU for website preparation.
>>
>> You're right.  Please notify Chris Ilias, who is trying to make a
>> comprehensive list of the differences.  His email address is at
>> <http://ilias.ca/SeamonkeyvsFirefox>
>
> Ilias notes Composer in the first paragraph on that page.

First paragraph?

"The Mozilla open source project began as a way of developing the next 
generation of the Netscape Communicator suite. (See: The Relationship and 
History between Mozilla and Netscape) The Mozilla Application Suite, like 
Netscape Communicator, is an 'all in one' application, which contains a 
browser, email/newsgroups client, address book, and an HTML editor. 
Additional components, added to the suite were an IRC chat client, and web 
development tools (DOM Inspector, JavaScript Debugger)."

Or are you saying "HTML editor" is referring to Composer?

-- 
Robert
GRC Newsgroups/Guidelines/No Regrets
http://www.grc.com/groups/techtalk:155486


0
Robert
8/15/2006 2:15:06 PM
�Q� <boxcars@gmx.net> wrote in 
news:MrQ981FB8B406C53itsmeitsQ@QsFQDN.dyndns.org:

> Mark Blain <mblain2@yahoo.com> wrote in
> <news:Xns981FACADC713Amblainalbany@4.79.142.203>:
> 
>> Miles <mileschap@REMOVEMEpacbell.net> wrote in news:ebqf2c$100i$1
>> @news.grc.com:
>>
>>> One important detail you left out is that SeaMonkey also includes
>>> Composer for website creation, while if Firefox and Thunderbird are
>>> used, then one would use NVU for website preparation.
>>
>> You're right.  Please notify Chris Ilias, who is trying to make a
>> comprehensive list of the differences.  His email address is at
>> <http://ilias.ca/SeamonkeyvsFirefox>
> 
> Ilias notes Composer in the first paragraph on that page.
> 
I think it would be worthwhile to mention the availability of NVU there 
for those doing a feature comparison, and Miles had a very clear way of 
explaining it.  NVU is already included in both of Ilias' HTML editor FAQ 
pages and his links page.
0
Mark
8/15/2006 9:34:42 PM
Mark Blain <mblain2@yahoo.com> wrote in
<news:Xns9820B3101BB0Amblainalbany@4.79.142.203>:

> �Q� <boxcars@gmx.net> wrote in
> news:MrQ981FB8B406C53itsmeitsQ@QsFQDN.dyndns.org:
>
>> Mark Blain <mblain2@yahoo.com> wrote in
>> <news:Xns981FACADC713Amblainalbany@4.79.142.203>:
>>
>>> Miles <mileschap@REMOVEMEpacbell.net> wrote in
>>> news:ebqf2c$100i$1 @news.grc.com:
>>>
>>>> One important detail you left out is that SeaMonkey also
>>>> includes Composer for website creation, while if Firefox and
>>>> Thunderbird are used, then one would use NVU for website
>>>> preparation.
>>>
>>> You're right.  Please notify Chris Ilias, who is trying to make
>>> a comprehensive list of the differences.  His email address is
>>> at <http://ilias.ca/SeamonkeyvsFirefox>
>>
>> Ilias notes Composer in the first paragraph on that page.
>>
> I think it would be worthwhile to mention the availability of NVU
> there for those doing a feature comparison, and Miles had a very
> clear way of explaining it.  NVU is already included in both of
> Ilias' HTML editor FAQ pages and his links page.

You're right -- I was reading a bit too fast, I guess, because I didn't
process the part about NVU.  I agree that it would be a good idea to
suggest it to Ilias, who is very receptive to any helpful suggestions.

-- 
�Q�
0
ISO
8/15/2006 10:40:25 PM
"Robert  Wycoff" <rwycoff@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in
<news:ebskta$2t6t$1@news.grc.com>:

> "�Q�" <boxcars@gmx.net> wrote in message
> news:MrQ981FB8B406C53itsmeitsQ@QsFQDN.dyndns.org...

>> Mark Blain <mblain2@yahoo.com> wrote in
>> <news:Xns981FACADC713Amblainalbany@4.79.142.203>:

>>> Miles <mileschap@REMOVEMEpacbell.net> wrote in
>>> news:ebqf2c$100i$1 @news.grc.com:

>>>> One important detail you left out is that SeaMonkey also
>>>> includes Composer for website creation, while if Firefox and
>>>> Thunderbird are used, then one would use NVU for website
>>>> preparation.
>>>
>>> You're right.  Please notify Chris Ilias, who is trying to make
>>> a comprehensive list of the differences.  His email address is
>>> at <http://ilias.ca/SeamonkeyvsFirefox>
>>
>> Ilias notes Composer in the first paragraph on that page.
>
> First paragraph?
>
> "The Mozilla open source project began as a way of developing the
> next generation of the Netscape Communicator suite. (See: The
> Relationship and History between Mozilla and Netscape) The Mozilla
> Application Suite, like Netscape Communicator, is an 'all in one'
> application, which contains a browser, email/newsgroups client,
> address book, and an HTML editor. Additional components, added to
> the suite were an IRC chat client, and web development tools (DOM
> Inspector, JavaScript Debugger)."
>
> Or are you saying "HTML editor" is referring to Composer?

Yes to that last question.  I don't actually use Composer, so I don't
know if calling it an HTML editor is selling it short.  A quick look at
it shows that it will publish pages, so it's at least a bit more than
just an editor.

-- 
�Q�
0
ISO
8/15/2006 10:40:45 PM
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