REDMOND, Wash. - June 8, 2005 - Microsoft Corp. today announced the
timetable for availability of Windows� XP Home Edition N and Windows XP
Professional N, the two versions of the Windows operating system created as
part of the company's compliance with the European Commission's decision of
March 2004. Originally released to computer makers in January 2005, the
latest versions of the XP operating systems without Windows Media Player
follow further clarifications from the European Commission. These products
will be made available to computer manufacturers on June 15 in English,
French, German, Italian and Spanish, and will be available to other
distribution channels, including the retail and volume licensing channels,
on July 1. The remaining language versions - Czech, Danish, Dutch, Finnish,
Greek, Hungarian, Norwegian, Polish, Portuguese and Swedish - will be
available to computer makers on July 1 and to other distribution channels on
July 15. As is the case with existing versions of Windows, computer makers
and end users can install other media players with the software. Microsoft
provided CDs with both products to the European Commission early last week.

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2005/jun05/06-08XPNEuropePR.mspx

-- 
Regard: Joh@nnes �  :-))
"If U know neither the enemy nor yourself,U will succumb in every battle"

Johannes Niebach wrote:
 As is the case with existing versions of
> Windows, computer makers and end users can install other media
> players with the software.

So nothing changes here, ome can still install WinAmp or whatever, or even 
Windows Media Player. I also read the pricing wiill be the same for this 
'light' version. The choice in the shops is Windows with or without WMP, for 
the same money. And in both cases you can choose whatever media player you 
like....

In other words: The same, for the same money. What a waste of EU money.....

BRM 

On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 12:59:30 +0200, Bicycle Repair Man wrote:

> So nothing changes here, ome can still install WinAmp or whatever, or even 
> Windows Media Player. I also read the pricing wiill be the same for this 
> 'light' version. The choice in the shops is Windows with or without WMP, for 
> the same money. And in both cases you can choose whatever media player you 
> like....
> 
> In other words: The same, for the same money. What a waste of EU money.....

I understood that the complaints which set this whole thing in motion
came from companies selling rivals to Windows Media Player, ie companies
such as Real. I don't think they will be impressed by this 'solution',
so I doubt the situation is resolved yet.
AFAICT the competition commission has to investigate complaints, and act
if it considers the complaint to be justified. This is not a 'European'
thing, as it seems several US software vendors are using EU regulations
to  challenge Microsoft in EU markets. (As they are entitled to do).
Is everyone certain that this story is entirely accurate ? Microsoft are
really going to call it 'N', and sell it for the same price as the
version with WMP ? It seems very unlikely to me.

-- 
A Bad Tempered Scotsman

A Bad Tempered Scotsman wrote:

> Is everyone certain that this story is entirely accurate ? Microsoft
> are really going to call it 'N', and sell it for the same price as the
> version with WMP ? It seems very unlikely to me.

Priicing the same as regular versions: see 
http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/legal/eudecision/faq.asp
Naming : see the Dutch Microsoft page on this:
http://www.microsoft.com/netherlands/windowsxp/home/n/default.aspx

cheers,

BRM

On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 14:44:53 +0200, Bicycle Repair Man wrote:

> A Bad Tempered Scotsman wrote:
> 
>> Is everyone certain that this story is entirely accurate ? Microsoft
>> are really going to call it 'N', and sell it for the same price as the
>> version with WMP ? It seems very unlikely to me.
> 
> Priicing the same as regular versions: see 
> http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/legal/eudecision/faq.asp
> Naming : see the Dutch Microsoft page on this:
> http://www.microsoft.com/netherlands/windowsxp/home/n/default.aspx
> 

Thanks for those links. I had missed the point that MS were allowed to
sell at the same price. What a truly weird decision.
So, who will buy XP Home Edition N ? And why ?
-- 
A Bad Tempered Scotsman
'Of all the things I've lost, it's my mind I miss the most'.

Wandering aimlessly about grc.techtalk, I heard A Bad Tempered Scotsman
say:

> On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 14:44:53 +0200, Bicycle Repair Man wrote:
> 
>> A Bad Tempered Scotsman wrote:
>> 
>>> Is everyone certain that this story is entirely accurate ? Microsoft
>>> are really going to call it 'N', and sell it for the same price as the
>>> version with WMP ? It seems very unlikely to me.
>> 
>> Priicing the same as regular versions: see 
>> http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/legal/eudecision/faq.asp
>> Naming : see the Dutch Microsoft page on this:
>> http://www.microsoft.com/netherlands/windowsxp/home/n/default.aspx
> 
> Thanks for those links. I had missed the point that MS were allowed to
> sell at the same price. What a truly weird decision.
> So, who will buy XP Home Edition N ? And why ?

How much extra does MS charge to *include* WMP? As MS mentions in their
FAQ, "It is noteworthy that media players are generally made available
for free via Web downloads." 

I suppose, those who see WMP as an intrusive tool of the DRM crowd might
be prospects for the 'N' version...

-- 
Dutch

GRC Newsgroups/Guidelines/No Regrets
http://www.grc.com/groups/techtalk:124863

A Bad Tempered Scotsman wrote:

> So, who will buy XP Home Edition N ? And why ?

Presumably everyone within the EU 'orbit', because the original version 
will become unavailable for sale within the EU without risk of penalty 
to Microsoft?
Thats just a guess, and I can't find anything in black and white to back 
it up. But surely that must be the reasoning?

Just my thoughts...........

-- 
Tony.P

Wandering aimlessly about grc.techtalk, I heard Tony.P say:

> A Bad Tempered Scotsman wrote:
> 
>> So, who will buy XP Home Edition N ? And why ?
> 
> Presumably everyone within the EU 'orbit', because the original version 
> will become unavailable for sale within the EU without risk of penalty 
> to Microsoft?
> Thats just a guess, and I can't find anything in black and white to back 
> it up. But surely that must be the reasoning?
> 
> Just my thoughts...........

Q: What are these new versions of Windows and how are they different
from Windows XP?

A: [...]The regular versions of Windows XP Home Edition and Professional
will continue to include Windows Media Player and will remain available
to European consumers.

http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/legal/eudecision/faq.asp

-- 
Dutch

GRC Newsgroups/Guidelines/No Regrets
http://www.grc.com/groups/techtalk:124863

Dutch wrote:

(Snip)
> Q: What are these new versions of Windows and how are they different
> from Windows XP?
> 
> A: [...]The regular versions of Windows XP Home Edition and Professional
> will continue to include Windows Media Player and will remain available
> to European consumers.
> 
> http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/legal/eudecision/faq.asp
> 


Oops!.  Thanks Dutch. How on earth did I miss that?
Maybe the Commission is relying on computer manufacturers using it for 
pre-installed versions. Note this clause from the same document:

"Note that computer manufacturers may pre-install third party media 
players on computers running these new versions of Windows XP."

-- 
Tony.P

Tony.P writes:

> "Note that computer manufacturers may pre-install third party media 
> players on computers running these new versions of Windows XP."

Also from that article: "European consumers may also separately install
media players, either from Microsoft or a third party."

What's going to happen the first time a "WinXP N" computer owner visits
Windows Update? WMP 10 will be shoved in their face and if they accept
it, they'll have gone full-circle right back where it all began. This
whole episode seems like so much sabre-rattling and muscle-flexing on
the part of the EU. They get a huge wad of cash from Microsoft without
really changing much of consequence and many if not most European users
will wind up right where they would have been as if none had happened.

Microsoft wins another one... an expensive win, but a win nonetheless.

Wandering aimlessly about grc.techtalk, I heard Dennis Henderson say:

> Tony.P writes:
> 
>> "Note that computer manufacturers may pre-install third party media 
>> players on computers running these new versions of Windows XP."
> 
> Also from that article: "European consumers may also separately install
> media players, either from Microsoft or a third party."
> 
> What's going to happen the first time a "WinXP N" computer owner visits
> Windows Update? WMP 10 will be shoved in their face and if they accept
> it, they'll have gone full-circle right back where it all began. This
> whole episode seems like so much sabre-rattling and muscle-flexing on
> the part of the EU. They get a huge wad of cash from Microsoft without
> really changing much of consequence and many if not most European users
> will wind up right where they would have been as if none had happened.

I have to disagree with the "shoved in their face" characterization,
Dennis. As far as I know, visiting Windows Update is still a voluntary
action on the user's part, and WMP updates aren't normally listed as
"critical", so even more steps are required by the user to download
them. If they still do it after all that, so be it. 
 
> Microsoft wins another one... an expensive win, but a win nonetheless.

"If all it takes to fix it is money, it's not a problem, just an
expense." (Donald Trump, I think...)

-- 
Dutch

GRC Newsgroups/Guidelines/No Regrets
http://www.grc.com/groups/techtalk:124863

>I have to disagree with the "shoved in their face" characterization,
>Dennis. As far as I know, visiting Windows Update is still a voluntary
>action on the user's part, and WMP updates aren't normally listed as
>"critical", so even more steps are required by the user to download
>them. If they still do it after all that, so be it.

Right you are. I am still running WMP 6.4, and the only time WMP-later is
"shoved in my face" is when I visit a (non Microsoft) site that requires WMP 7,8
or 9 to run some doodad. WMP 9 is available as an optional update on Windows
Update site, along witha bunch of other stuff that I don't want, but it is fully
optional.

As I see it, it is a matter of principle. The EU is against monopolies. Unless
they are European, of course.
-- 
Dave "Crash" Dummy - A weapon of mass destruction
E-Mail: http://lists.gpick.com/crashsite/email.htm
http://lists.gpick.com

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 10:19:43 -0400, "Crash" Dummy wrote:

>>I have to disagree with the "shoved in their face" characterization,
>>Dennis. As far as I know, visiting Windows Update is still a voluntary
>>action on the user's part, and WMP updates aren't normally listed as
>>"critical", so even more steps are required by the user to download
>>them. If they still do it after all that, so be it.
> 
> Right you are. I am still running WMP 6.4, and the only time WMP-later is
> "shoved in my face" is when I visit a (non Microsoft) site that requires WMP 7,8
> or 9 to run some doodad. WMP 9 is available as an optional update on Windows
> Update site, along witha bunch of other stuff that I don't want, but it is fully
> optional.
> 
> As I see it, it is a matter of principle. The EU is against monopolies. Unless
> they are European, of course.

This wasn't the EU, it was the EC. And I don't think there were any
European manufacturers complaining (because there aren't any AFAIK).
This is not a parochial or political issue, it's a competition issue. 
And getting a bit OT so I will stop right here.
-- 
A Bad Tempered Scotsman