PulseAudio Opinions?

Mine is solidifying... get rid of it!  It's a confusion layer giving no benefit.

Apps are confused.
Distros are confused.
Every tool is limited.
Last week's tools and fixits don't work this week.
No wonder, complexity asks for chaos!

I'll admit much is probably sound-card dependant.

Just curious what others think?

Bill
-- 
Bill_MI - Bill in Michigan
Expert Opinions $20, Shut-Up $50
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Bill_MI
9/16/2013 11:08:41 AM
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On 09/16/2013 06:38 AM, Bill_MI wrote:
> Mine is solidifying... get rid of it!  It's a confusion layer giving no benefit.
>
> Apps are confused.
> Distros are confused.
> Every tool is limited.
> Last week's tools and fixits don't work this week.
> No wonder, complexity asks for chaos!
>
> I'll admit much is probably sound-card dependant.
>
> Just curious what others think?
>
> Bill
>

I eliminated it from my PC and the sound is better now.  Using the audio 
from the MB, no PCI sound card.  I'm no expert, but for me Pulse Audio 
is not ready for prime time.


0
Loren
9/16/2013 11:22:44 AM
On Mon, 16 Sep 2013 06:08:41 -0500, Bill_MI <bill@mi.no.spam.ath.cx> wrote:

> Just curious what others think?

I used to have a lot of audio problems with Pulse, especially the sound  
card removal notices, under Mepis when I was using that. When I first  
switched to Linux Mint KDE, I had to fight with it to get certain  
soundcards in Lenovo laptops to show up and work, but I haven't had any  
problems with it in a while now. I just did some clean installs of Mint  
KDE 14 over the last few weeks and haven't had a single problem yet. So,  
whatever the real problem is, Mint seems to have mostly figured it out...  
at least for all the hardware I deal with at home and on campus.

-- 
Todd Russell, Director of IT, Saint Joseph Abbey and Seminary College
http://www.sjasc.edu
0
Todd
9/16/2013 1:55:13 PM
Bill_MI has sent:

> Mine is solidifying... get rid of it!  It's a confusion layer giving no
> benefit.
> 
> Apps are confused.
> Distros are confused.
> Every tool is limited.
> Last week's tools and fixits don't work this week.
> No wonder, complexity asks for chaos!
> 
> I'll admit much is probably sound-card dependant.
> 
> Just curious what others think?

I also had problems (at the start, one year ago) but most issues have been 
resolved by now. All "just works" now. Just growing pains, I like to think.

Sure, you could switch to ALSA, or Jack or plain OSS for a little while and 
then switch back to PA.

But be aware that OSS has serious issues with some apps, dmix for alsa is 
quite broken and Jack does not play nice with ALSA.

Other than that, all could work. ;-)

But really, Bill, there is no other solution with (reasonable latency) that 
works for apps that demand ALSA or OSS. I have tried !!

So, yes, you may switch to alsa to ride over the growing pains of PA, but 
latter you will like to switch back. Just IMO, YMMV, of course. :)

-- 
Mark Cross @ 09/16/2013 3:38 p.m.
Name of the greatest inventor. Accident. — Mark Twain

0
Mark
9/16/2013 7:51:50 PM
Bill_MI said:

> Mine is solidifying... get rid of it!  It's a confusion layer giving no
> benefit.
> 
> Apps are confused.
> Distros are confused.
> Every tool is limited.
> Last week's tools and fixits don't work this week.
> No wonder, complexity asks for chaos!
> 
> I'll admit much is probably sound-card dependant.
> 
> Just curious what others think?

I've never had any luck with it. Periodically I give it a chance to 
change my mind, but I always wind up removing it.  Maybe someday....

-- 
Dale Beckett
0
Dale
9/18/2013 10:40:54 PM
While Loren dreams of electric sheep...:

> I eliminated it from my PC and the sound is better now.  Using the audio
> from the MB, no PCI sound card.  I'm no expert, but for me Pulse Audio
> is not ready for prime time.

My god, I have been hearing that since what '07 ?
Damn, nice to see devs on the ball.

-- 
Where's there's smoke, There are mirrors.
Give me Free as in Freedom not Speech or Beer.
Internet and PC Industry/Gaming RIP 2011
0
DarkWolf
9/19/2013 8:32:54 PM
On 09/19/2013 04:02 PM, DarkWolf wrote:
> While Loren dreams of electric sheep...:
>
>> I eliminated it from my PC and the sound is better now.  Using the audio
>> from the MB, no PCI sound card.  I'm no expert, but for me Pulse Audio
>> is not ready for prime time.
>
> My god, I have been hearing that since what '07 ?
> Damn, nice to see devs on the ball.
>

 From what other posters have written, I think perhaps the problem is my 
unendowed PC - no dedicated sound card, dubious MB sound, etc.  So I 
won't blame the devs as much as the economic situation I have here.

Besides, my requirements are limited.  I program, listen with headphones 
to what I have produced, and go from there.  That's enough for me, for now.

0
Loren
9/19/2013 9:38:48 PM
On Mon, 16 Sep 2013 07:08:41 -0400, Bill_MI wrote:

>Just curious what others think?

Thanks for all the input, folks!

I'm not seeing an organized effort to de-mystify pulseaudio.  Instead, some
distros seem to have it under control for more systems than others.  Fixes are
full of "do this" with no real basis (a lot of the Linux culture is like this,
unfortunately).

I'm sure there's some core people that have a handle on what's going on under
the hood with buffers and DMA handling to a sound card but I know this... they
DON'T post much about it.  I've looked.

I'm NOWHERE near convinced I need pulseaudio.  I'm not sure what some people
think it does but I classify it as confusion-on-top-of-confusion.  Reinventing
something to fix a legacy problem, then, trying to be compatible with legacy
problems sounds like a formula for disaster.

Linux audio has never... ever... been stable.  It's just piled with stuff until
fewer people complain.  YMMV, of course.

If you got this far... Thanks for listening.  I'm in full rant and happy as hell
getting rid of pulseaudio made some distros stable for the first time in years
(mostly LMDE, SolusOS and SolydX btw). ;)

Bill
-- 
Bill_MI - Bill in Michigan
Expert Opinions $20, Shut-Up $50
0
Bill_MI
9/19/2013 9:49:56 PM
Bill_MI has sent:

> On Mon, 16 Sep 2013 07:08:41 -0400, Bill_MI wrote:
> 
>>Just curious what others think?
> 
> Thanks for all the input, folks!
> 
> I'm not seeing an organized effort to de-mystify pulseaudio.  Instead,
> some
> distros seem to have it under control for more systems than others.

Well, Bill, PulseAudio runs mostly above the desktop manager (KDE,Gnome, 
etc) so, some have figured it out, some dis not. Some distros use older 
desktops and re-discover old bugs.

> Fixes are full of "do this" with no real basis (a lot of the Linux
> culture is like this, unfortunately).

Sure !  If you like chaos, welcome to Linux !
 
> I'm sure there's some core people that have a handle on what's going on
> under the hood with buffers and DMA handling to a sound card but I know
> this... they DON'T post much about it.  I've looked.

No, not even them are really aware of all the issues and problems, and I 
don't blame them. How could they be aware of all the small details of all 
the issues, they are not. They depend on people reporting (correctly) the 
issues, and them willing to listen. I even have had a couple of exchanges 
with Lennart and he was not able to walk out of his "vision" of PulseAudio 
to understand a simple (IMO) problem with the tool. But that was quite some 
time ago anyway. We should hope that has been fixed.
 
> I'm NOWHERE near convinced I need pulseaudio.

But I sure am. Much as I may hate PulseAudio, and, don't fool yourself, 
there are some concepts that I just can't buy.

There has never been a Linux sound solution that worked in so many 
computers, with so many apps, as PulseAudio. That I have to grant them.

> I'm not sure what some people think it does

The main element that makes PulseAudio THE general Audio Solution it is, is:
     The sound mixing.
It takes any input, from most apps, be it an Alsa App, an OSS app, or even a 
Jack App and mix all the inputs to the several possible outputs in the 
correct time, sequence and volume.

ALSA tried (and failed) with dmix.

aRts sound system (used by KDE 3.00), being as good as it was, is not 
maintained any more, not even by its creator. So, its dead, we could just 
bury it with respect.

Jack has an excellent *real* *time* mixer, nothing could beat that kind of 
unsurpassed excellence, did I care to mention that it is *real* *time* !!

Please !!! Jack Fans, don't read this:
But could not work correctly unless you take a lot of care to keep it that 
way, conflicts with ALSA apps, and fights OSS apps.

So, PulseAudio It is, whether you like it or not. Just learn to make it work 
correctly for you. KDE 4 does work quite well with it. Gnome has been lately 
getting better. And, well, if you do not like it, as some have reported, 
kill it in your system. That's the Linux way: there is always a solution for 
each one, one that is more broken than the new one, but there is always 
choice.

And I love choice.

> but I classify it as confusion-on-top-of-confusion. 
> Reinventing something to fix a legacy problem, then, trying to be
> compatible with legacy problems sounds like a formula for disaster.

Well, yes, that is a fair description of PA. But it works IMO.
 
> Linux audio has never... ever... been stable.  It's just piled with
> stuff until fewer people complain.  YMMV, of course.

No it has never been stable (and never will be) IMO.
 
> If you got this far... Thanks for listening.  I'm in full rant and happy
> as hell getting rid of pulseaudio made some distros stable for the first
> time in years (mostly LMDE, SolusOS and SolydX btw). ;)

If killing PA makes you happy, go for it, you have a choice.

-- 
Mark Cross @ 09/19/2013 6:22 p.m.
Be good – and if you can’t be good, be careful.

0
Mark
9/19/2013 10:51:38 PM
Thanks for the thoughtful replies, Mark.

In my case, I'd love to be able to hear ALSA's dmix screwing up but I can't...
when sound is totally broken.

Run some audio app and something else breaking, finding a great fix on one
distro that doesn't exist in the next distro, apps fixing things themselves at
the expense of other apps, 3 sets of controls stepping on each other, no real
way to know what controls are REALLY active as they just throw them ALL at you
whether you card is capable or not... geeze... it gets old *&^% quick.

I wish I had some skills to look into this further.  I'm even inspired a bit.

BTW, sorry about my 80-column wrap.  Ugly, I know. :-/

Bill
-- 
Bill_MI - Bill in Michigan
Expert Opinions $20, Shut-Up $50
0
Bill_MI
9/20/2013 12:01:18 AM
On 19/09/13 22:49, Bill_MI wrote:
> ...<snip>
> If you got this far... Thanks for listening.  I'm in full rant and happy as hell
> getting rid of pulseaudio made some distros stable for the first time in years
> (mostly LMDE, SolusOS and SolydX btw). ;)
>
> Bill
>
I installed LMDE for the first time (multiboot with other OS's) as a 
long time Mint user (and Debian Sarge before that). Sound is the only 
thing that isn't working and a few things I tried to fix it didn't work. 
I left it alone for now, but would like to succeed with it when I've the 
time to try. If there are any useful guides on the net I'd be grateful 
for a pointer.

-- 
Russell
0
Russell
9/21/2013 8:03:08 AM
Russell Gadd has sent:

> I installed LMDE for the first time (multiboot with other OS's) as a
> long time Mint user (and Debian Sarge before that). Sound is the only
> thing that isn't working and a few things I tried to fix it didn't work.

If I can be of help, Russell, I am willing to try.
What seems to be the problem?

Gnome or KDE?

-- 
Mark Cross @ 09/21/2013 5:15 a.m.
If at first you don’t succeed, try a shorter bungee.

0
Mark
9/21/2013 9:17:20 AM
Mark Cross has sent:

> Russell Gadd has sent:
> 
>> I installed LMDE for the first time (multiboot with other OS's) as a
>> long time Mint user (and Debian Sarge before that). Sound is the only
>> thing that isn't working and a few things I tried to fix it didn't work.
> 
> If I can be of help, Russell, I am willing to try.
> What seems to be the problem?

I may start trowing guides and setups at you so you try and get it sorted by
all the try and test you could make up by yourself. But that will just will
make you loose a lot of time and making changes that, in the end. are not
needed.

I could send this list of links: The first one is very old but quite
relevant still today about the sound system, it even has a couple of guides
to setup PulseAudio correctly. But I beg of you that you do not start making
changes just yet. Besides, most of what I believed I knew about sound has
just faded away, I can not remember most of the details just now, but I
hope they will come back while trying to get it working.

https://www.linux.com/news/hardware/drivers/8100-why-you-should-care-about-pulseaudio-and-how-to-start-doing-it
http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/PulseAudio/Documentation/User/
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=12497

One of the odd things I remember of pulse audio is that it does NOT like
the present logged in user to be part of the root audio system, which is
shocking to most old ALSA users, because the first thing they do is make
the user able to access the hardware.

So, list the audio group users.

If you have pulse installed already, there should not be any user in the groups
of PulseAudio: plugdev, plug, and plug-access.

Which again, sounds odd to any experienced ALSA or OSS user, but thats the way
it was designed to work.

Then, to have some way of communicating with pulse audio, you need some way
of seeing what are the conditions in which it is operating. On most present day
desktops (Gnome and KDE) the sound applet (where you set the sound volume) is
really just a wrapper around the PulseAudio volume applet. In the old days there
were this programs: pavucontrol (PulseAudio Volume Control), pavumeter (PulseAudio
Volume Meter) and (the only really important IMO) paman. All are still present and
with such names but are installed by some sound wrappers that have changed several
times of name and have become different than what they were.

Anyway, read some of the links above, check the users thing, that you have PulseAudio
Installed, and we will get it from there.

Have you still ALSA installed? OSS? Jack?

(Perhaps all of this (or maybe not):
apt-get install pulseaudio libao4 paprefs libpulse-mainloop-glib0 pulseaudio-module-jack
pavucontrol pulseaudio-module-hal pulseaudio-module-x11 gstreamer0.10-pulseaudio
pulseaudio-utils libasound2-plugins paman pulseaudio-module-gconf libgconfmm-2.6-1c2
libpulse-browse0 pavumeter libglademm-2.4-1c2a pulseaudio-esound-compat libpulse0
libpulse-dev pulseaudio-module-bluetooth pulseaudio-module-zeroconf  )


-- 
Mark Cross @ 09/21/2013 5:59 a.m.
If you don’t care where you are, then you ain’t lost.

0
Mark
9/21/2013 10:05:07 AM
On Sat, 21 Sep 2013 09:03:08 +0100, Russell Gadd wrote:

>I installed LMDE for the first time (multiboot with other OS's) as a 
>long time Mint user (and Debian Sarge before that). Sound is the only 
>thing that isn't working and a few things I tried to fix it didn't work. 
>I left it alone for now, but would like to succeed with it when I've the 
>time to try. If there are any useful guides on the net I'd be grateful 
>for a pointer.

Hi Russell,

My quick advice is searching sound issues and hardware-specific
outputs from lsmod, lspci, inxi, etc.  With any luck, you'll find
something quickly...

LMDE forums: http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewforum.php?f=141
SolydXK forums: http://forums.solydxk.com/\

SolydXK (the X/K is xfce/kde) has much overlap since it was born as
"LMDE done more like some think it should be" for XFCE and KDE.

There's no lack of sound issues.  They never exactly match what I'm
doing, of course.

After several years of fighting broken sound within the box itself,
I've given up.  This is in the simplest of audio environments where
apps need to only access a speaker and microphone through the SINGLE
sound card in the same system.  I have no interest in running sound
servers on a network.  My version of multiple sound sources is a
laptop on TWiT while I use my main system to talk Skype to my sister.
"System sounds" are always off.  Or 2 instances of vlc.

A very common theme of disconnect seems to be volume controls.
They're everywhere.  It's OFTEN just finding that right control and
turning it up.  Commandline alsamixer is usually my first try and if
that doesn't work I'm usually screwed for awhile.

But in recent distros I've been using, all Debian-based attempts at
rolling or semi-rolling-snapshots like LMDE, SolusOS and SolydX,
alsamixer lacks a "default".  One and only one sound card to choose
from and it can't get it right!!!  I have to F6 and manually select
the only card I have (or commandline select).

I spent the last 6 months of free time trying only one thing...
getting alsamixer to come up, by default, with the controls I need.
The more I looked into it, the worse it got.  Still can't get it.

I mean... if alsamixer can't figure out, automagically, how to get to
the control what I want the apps must be worse(???)  Sure enough, the
apps all interact in strange ways.  Just running 1 app will often
change things for other apps.  For example, default install of SolydX
(xfce) and vlc's application volume control controls MASTER VOLUME
until I found some "do this" in some obscure (and not in all distros)
conf file.

The system is simply too complex ->
  Distros have to generate unique setups by trial and error ->
    Too many hardware variations exist ->
      End user is screwed if he wants it to "just work".

I have to admit, Ubuntu and it's derivatives do seem to have the best
control of sound.  I load them up for comparison of conf files that
sometimes helps but usually doesn't - things are often done
differently enough to make matters worse to try things. :(

My sound apps are mostly vlc, totem, audacity and skype.  I know skype
may be the culprit in a lot of problems so I keep it out of the mix
when I'm diagnosing.

I must admit... removing pulseaudio has helped immensely.  Still can't
get alsamixer to default right, though.  But every app I've tried
seems happy.  Levels may have shifted but they DO NOT interact
anymore.

I know I may have pulseaudio in my future... but it may be kicking and
screaming.  Sorry, this topic's got a BIG soapbox from the years of
stuff I've been through. :-)

Bill
-- 
Bill_MI - Bill in Michigan
Expert Opinions $20, Shut-Up $50
0
Bill_MI
9/21/2013 12:14:24 PM
Bill_MI wrote:

> Mine is solidifying... get rid of it!  It's a confusion layer giving no
> benefit.
> 
> Apps are confused.
> Distros are confused.
> Every tool is limited.
> Last week's tools and fixits don't work this week.
> No wonder, complexity asks for chaos!
> 
> I'll admit much is probably sound-card dependant.
> 
> Just curious what others think?
> 
> Bill

For those with multiple sound devices it is the best thing to happen in 
Linux for the last 9 years I have been using it exclusively.

For those with one sound card and no 'complicated' requirements like network 
sound, loopback mixing or such, there is no need to have PulseAudio active, 
IMO.

> I'm not sure what some people think it does

This made me wonder .....  what do you think it *should* do?

From my point of view, I have never had such easy control over audio streams 
in Linux prior to using PulseAudio.


0
ClareOldie
9/21/2013 11:16:16 PM
Bill_MI has sent:

> This is in the simplest of audio environments where
> apps need to only access a speaker and microphone through the SINGLE
> sound card in the same system.

Yes, I do feel your pain. Why, oh why, do things have to get so complex for 
the developers if it is so simple as just one speaker for one app.

Sadly, that is entirely incorrect.

> Or 2 instances of vlc.

See? that is one of the reasons. Or a YouTube video i a browser while there 
is a call in skype. That is without adding up the complexity that more than 
one user adds to the system.

> A very common theme of disconnect seems to be volume controls.

Yes, that is the usual point in which PA annoys users. Too many sound 
volumes, nobody seems to find the correct one. Sad, really sad.

> alsamixer lacks a "default".  One and only one sound card to choose
> from and it can't get it right!!!  I have to F6 and manually select
> the only card I have (or command line select).

> I spent the last 6 months of free time trying only one thing...
> getting alsamixer to come up, by default, with the controls I need.
> The more I looked into it, the worse it got.  Still can't get it.

Then you are making changes in the wrong app. !!

Alsamixer is not needed, you may as well uninstall it and PA will work 
perfectly well.
 
> I mean... if alsamixer can't figure out, automagically, how to get to
> the control what I want the apps must be worse(???)  Sure enough, the
> apps all interact in strange ways.  Just running 1 app will often
> change things for other apps.  For example, default install of SolydX
> (xfce) and vlc's application volume control controls MASTER VOLUME
> until I found some "do this" in some obscure (and not in all distros)
> conf file.

As said, alsamixer is not the correct tool for the job.

Unless, of course, you remove PA from the system, in which case, the system 
will default to ALSA and alsamixer. You may believe that is the solution but 
you are just fooling yourself, IMO.
 
> The system is simply too complex ->
>   Distros have to generate unique setups by trial and error ->
>     Too many hardware variations exist ->
>       End user is screwed if he wants it to "just work".

No, that is NOT what happens, there is no "trial and error" on the side of 
the distros, it is just that a LOOOOOONG tradition of getting ALSA working 
is in direct confrontation with PA, IMO.

> I know I may have pulseaudio in my future... but it may be kicking and
> screaming.  Sorry, this topic's got a BIG soapbox from the years of
> stuff I've been through. :-)

You have not understood the real reason for PA. A simple reason that 
explains many of its features (well, ok, problems).


>>>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------

Pulse Audio was developed for just one reason: security.

How is that so? you may ask, and rightly so.

The initial reason to develop PulseAudio was to make sure that sound of one 
user did not spill to other users. If you were listening to a private 
recording, the next user in the system, or even root should NOT listen to 
the sound. Or, if you were in a skype call, what prevented the others users 
logged in the system from taking control (recording) the call?

So, it was decided in the high ranks of RedHat that some kind of control was 
needed. They started funding this PulseAudio project.

Want an example of what I am saying? Start a movie, music, anything that 
makes some known sound on the speakers and has some minutes in it (you will 
need it working for some time). Then just press:
    CTRL-ALT-F1
    Did the sound stop?

Remember that to get back you need to press CTRL-ALT-F7 (probably).
Does the sound start again?

Then the program managing sound on your system is PulseAudio, any change to 
alsamixer is futile. Didn't stop? then Pulse-Audio is not doing its job 
correctly, bad configured, or just removed. Why that happens? Because PA 
stops the output of sound (and the input as well). Much as the screen and 
mouse is switched back and forth for each user.

There is then, of course, as the management of sound is done pre user, to 
keep record of volume for each user, which means a sound level per each 
stream (trust me, that is needed). That just makes the sound volume control 
complex, that is what many users do not like.

But if the sound is working, and the only issue is the sometimes annoying 
management of sound volume changes, I say:
 get used to it !! You are being too sensible IMO  :)

-- 
Mark Cross @ 09/21/2013 5:09 p.m.
If you're not having fun, then you're not doing it right.

0
Mark
9/22/2013 12:46:20 AM
On Sun, 22 Sep 2013 00:16:16 +0100, ClareOldie wrote:

>For those with multiple sound devices it is the best thing to happen in 
>Linux for the last 9 years I have been using it exclusively.
>
>For those with one sound card and no 'complicated' requirements like network 
>sound, loopback mixing or such, there is no need to have PulseAudio active, 
>IMO.
>
>> I'm not sure what some people think it does
>
>This made me wonder .....  what do you think it *should* do?
>
>From my point of view, I have never had such easy control over audio streams 
>in Linux prior to using PulseAudio.

Hi Clare, thanks for the confirmation pulseaudio isn't unneeded by
everyone.  I did a little with Jack and it was horribly touchy, too,
although it's more for local production.

I truly think many distros have not implemented pulseaudio
"correctly", if such a thing exists, and some of these are geared to
working out-of-the-box.  The huge amount of audio problems, and the
differing trial-and-error methods to get things working in their
forums, tells me pulseaudio has an information gap which probably has
a zillion causes (desktops, hardware, apps, etc.).

I could "get into" pulseaudio and fill my own info gap, but I haven't
any time for it, frankly.  Yes, I have zero need for network sound or
mixing beyond a few apps driving a speaker and even fewer apps
handling a microphone.

What I think it should do?  Probably cater to those that need it but
not get forced into every distro until it's stable enough to "just
work".  Such stability includes bridging that info gap that appears to
exist.

I may be unique in that I'm a musician (piano, now keyboard, mostly
for my own amusement for 56 years) that has no desire to listen to
music like most people seem to want.  I've discovered this is not
uncommon among musicians - in my case, I avoid external music getting
in my head.  But this is off topic... :-)

My 1970s background in broadcasting got me quite close to audio
production.  That's why I could probably "get into" the modern
bit-streaming version but no real need means no time, really.

Anyway, sorry so long-winded.  I'm curious what distros you're using
with what's obviously pulseaudio done right?  Or does it take a lot of
tweaking?  I'm guessing the right tools helps, too?

Thanks again,
Bill
-- 
Bill_MI - Bill in Michigan
Expert Opinions $20, Shut-Up $50
0
Bill_MI
9/22/2013 6:55:03 AM
Bill_MI wrote:

> On Sun, 22 Sep 2013 00:16:16 +0100, ClareOldie wrote:
> 
>>For those with multiple sound devices it is the best thing to happen in
>>Linux for the last 9 years I have been using it exclusively.
>>
>>For those with one sound card and no 'complicated' requirements like
>>network sound, loopback mixing or such, there is no need to have
>>PulseAudio active, IMO.
>>
>>> I'm not sure what some people think it does
>>
>>This made me wonder .....  what do you think it *should* do?
>>
>>From my point of view, I have never had such easy control over audio
>>streams in Linux prior to using PulseAudio.
> 
> Hi Clare, thanks for the confirmation pulseaudio isn't unneeded by
> everyone.  I did a little with Jack and it was horribly touchy, too,
> although it's more for local production.
> 
> I truly think many distros have not implemented pulseaudio
> "correctly", if such a thing exists, and some of these are geared to
> working out-of-the-box.  The huge amount of audio problems, and the
> differing trial-and-error methods to get things working in their
> forums, tells me pulseaudio has an information gap which probably has
> a zillion causes (desktops, hardware, apps, etc.).
> 

> I could "get into" pulseaudio and fill my own info gap, but I haven't
> any time for it, frankly.  Yes, I have zero need for network sound or
> mixing beyond a few apps driving a speaker and even fewer apps
> handling a microphone.
> 
> What I think it should do?  Probably cater to those that need it but
> not get forced into every distro until it's stable enough to "just
> work".  Such stability includes bridging that info gap that appears to
> exist.
> 
> I may be unique in that I'm a musician (piano, now keyboard, mostly
> for my own amusement for 56 years) that has no desire to listen to
> music like most people seem to want.  I've discovered this is not
> uncommon among musicians - in my case, I avoid external music getting
> in my head.  But this is off topic... :-)
> 

> My 1970s background in broadcasting got me quite close to audio
> production.  That's why I could probably "get into" the modern
> bit-streaming version but no real need means no time, really.
> 
> Anyway, sorry so long-winded.  I'm curious what distros you're using
> with what's obviously pulseaudio done right?  Or does it take a lot of
> tweaking?  I'm guessing the right tools helps, too?
> 
> Thanks again,
> Bill

I am using PCLinuxOS. Until the most recent ISOs PA was not enabled by 
default.
In any case a user can enable or disable PA as they wish. 

I have multiple audio devices ... speakers & headset to connect to the on 
board audio card; several USB audio devices such as speakers; headsets; 
microphones; wireless and bluetooth headsets with microphones etc etc.

I can plug in any or all of those devices and manage the sound streams 
coming from or going to those them.
They can all work individually and concurrently.

So I can have a movie playing with its sound going through the HDMI 
connection to the connected TV, while at the same time playing music to a 
wireless headset and still be able to have the bluetooth headset connected 
to a VOIP call .....  all without one sound stream interfering with any 
other.
I could not, even with the most determined of attempts, get anywhere close 
to such control using Alsa without PA, despite many edits of files etc etc.

With PA set up on several PCs I can output a sound stream from one PC and 
hear it on all of them across the LAN.

I can multicast a sound stream on the LAN, if that is my preference, and 
allow the LAN PCs connect or not to the stream.

I can set up a simple (or more complicated) loopback mixer, where I can play 
a sound stream and mix it with another ......  such as doing voice-over, or 
even karaoke recording.

All of that, and more, is done from within a GUI.

Yes it requires some effort on the part of the user who wishes to make use 
of the power provided by PA.
For those who have little or no interest in learning how to make use of the 
functions provided, I see no compelling reason to have PA enabled at all.
It would be like me having Gimp installed and saying it is useless -- 
because I was not prepared to spend the time learning how to properly do so.

People have an aversion to change .....  even beneficial change.
Nevertheless change will occur, and it will be more and more difficult to 
avoid those changes. Eventually the change must be accepted as the 
alternative is to spend more time and effort avoiding the change than 
accepting it and learning how to use something new.

We have seen it with KDE, now happening with Gnome, as well as other 
examples.

My pet hate in all this PA sound stuff is the names of utilities and 
functions.
Simple volume controls are referred to as 'mixer'.
I used Kmix for many years, and I can say it never provided me the function 
of mixing two sound streams as I might wish. The same applies to other 
'mixers' I tried.

So now I have an actual mixer set up through PA .....  what should it be 
called?

Another one ....  the PA Volume Control goes in the other direction .....  
yes it does volume control, but it also does so many more things that 
calling it a simple Vol Ctrl is misleading in the other extreme.

PaPrefs ....  sounds like something to allow one to set up semi-permanent 
preferences for PA generally. In fact it is mostly for setting up networked 
audio of all types.

There are more examples, but to me the 'mis-naming' of utilities goes a long 
way to explaining the difficulties some have in adopting new methods of 
doing things.

So, overall I presently believe that those with simple sound requirements 
have no need to interact with their sound settings at all, and can well do 
without PA enabled.

IMO, having it enabled will interfere with nothing .....  but of course that 
won't stop people interfering with it and its settings, and then blaming PA 
because they did something and have no idea how to undo it.

Yes that seems harsh ....  but I believe it does explain a lot of the 
problems being reported.

The majority of the problems I have encountered over the last few years 
could be categorised as .....

1. Lack of user knowledge and often user unprepared to learn how to manage 
things properly. 

2.  Installation glitch ...  an incorrect config file or such ...  easy to 
diagnose and fix.

3.  Hardware dependent problems ....  scratchy sound, failure of Skype to 
operate correctly and a few other. No more occurrences than any other large 
application.

PulseAudio is *not* perfect by any means.
It does work well and provides the user with access to things that are 
otherwise hidden deep within config files and such, as well as providing 
other new functions.

For those who say PA is useless/pointless/whatever, I would ask them to 
point to something else that will provide the functions PA does, and is 
easily accessible by the user.
There is nothing else.

For _me_ it is a sound stream management application and like any 
application I can use it or not as I see fit.
Just as I do not have to uninstall other applications to not use them, 
neither do I have to uninstall PA if I don't wish to use it.

This is what _my_ PA Control Panel (launcher panel) looks like presently 
.....      

http://oi42.tinypic.com/2yv15dl.jpg

Hehehehe .....  and you thought you wrote long posts ....

CO.
0
ClareOldie
9/22/2013 9:15:55 AM
On Sun, 22 Sep 2013 10:15:55 +0100, ClareOldie wrote:

>Hehehehe .....  and you thought you wrote long posts ....

But well worth it. :-)  OH YES!  Bad naming is a problem in itself.
Drives me nuts...

There's only AMD64... where's Intel?
They said it used grub2... are they sure?  Says 1.98.
I have no SCSI interface, I've designed SCSI interfaces.
cifs replaced smb, why should I use smb-utils?
They sure come and go.

Perhaps the current KDE stability also helps the PA cause while Gnome
is being fragmented.  It's never one thing.

Bill
-- 
Bill_MI - Bill in Michigan
Expert Opinions $20, Shut-Up $50
0
Bill_MI
9/22/2013 2:35:59 PM
On Sat, 21 Sep 2013 20:46:20 -0400, Mark Cross wrote:

>Pulse Audio was developed for just one reason: security.
><snip>
>Remember that to get back you need to press CTRL-ALT-F7 (probably).
>Does the sound start again?

Fascinating.  I have several Debian-flavor distros installed on my 2TB
drive I haven't visited in awhile.  The TTY test (do they still call
them that?) is quick to try, just for fun, while I do a look-see pass.

I play the TWiT stream on VLC and hit TTY1...

Ubuntu 10.04      PulseAudio default      Still plays - unexpected
Ubuntu 12.04      PulseAudio default      Turns off + VLC error
Xubuntu 12.04     PulseAudio default      Turns off + VLC error
Mint13-XFCE       PulseAudio default      Turns off + VLC error
Mint13-Mate       PulseAudio default      Turns off + VLC error
SolusOS 1.2       PulseAudio default      Turns off
SolydX current    PulseAudio removed      Still plays

That's all I got to... I have LMDE setup different ways I'll try
later.

When VLC audio gets turned off, it gets horribly out of sync and
displays a message:
====================================================================
Potential PulseAudio version problem:
PulseAudio is streaming with an excessive latency. Sound may be lost
or quality degraded.  To address that issue, upgrade the PulseAudio
daemon to version 3.0, or disable the alternate sampling rate in its
configuration.
====================================================================

Bill
-- 
Bill_MI - Bill in Michigan
Expert Opinions $20, Shut-Up $50
0
Bill_MI
9/22/2013 2:56:29 PM
Bill_MI has sent:

> On Sat, 21 Sep 2013 20:46:20 -0400, Mark Cross wrote:
> 
>>Pulse Audio was developed for just one reason: security.
>><snip>
>>Remember that to get back you need to press CTRL-ALT-F7 (probably).
>>Does the sound start again?


> Fascinating.

Indeed, isn't it?

> I have several Debian-flavor distros installed on my 2TB
> drive I haven't visited in awhile.  The TTY test (do they still call
> them that?)

Well, yes, but more common to name it "console", doesn't it?
Ohh, well, it does not matter.

> is quick to try, just for fun, while I do a look-see pass.

Quick it is, yes.
 
> I play the TWiT stream on VLC and hit TTY1...

Hmmm, I didn't mean to use the network, as some setups may lose network 
connectivity on a deactivation of the logged in user.

I really recommend to try with a movie, some song or, in general, some file 
in your disk.

Yes, some syncing problems are common, more on vlc, but they tend to go away 
as the movie keeps playing. What should happen and does here, is that the 
sound stops (the movie keeps moving ahead) if you wait 30 sec or 1 minute, 
when you get back, you should hear the sound at that point in time on the 
movie, no errors should be reported, none, zero. It should "just work".

> Ubuntu 10.04      PulseAudio default      Still plays - unexpected
> Ubuntu 12.04      PulseAudio default      Turns off + VLC error
> Xubuntu 12.04     PulseAudio default      Turns off + VLC error
> Mint13-XFCE       PulseAudio default      Turns off + VLC error
> Mint13-Mate       PulseAudio default      Turns off + VLC error
> SolusOS 1.2       PulseAudio default      Turns off
> SolydX current    PulseAudio removed      Still plays

So, you only have one good PA configuration: SolusOS 1.2
I assume that sound does not get out of sync nor presents a message.

> That's all I got to... I have LMDE setup different ways I'll try
> later.

Any time you've got the opportunity :)
 
> When VLC audio gets turned off, it gets horribly out of sync and
> displays a message:
> ====================================================================
> Potential PulseAudio version problem:
> PulseAudio is streaming with an excessive latency. Sound may be lost
> or quality degraded.  To address that issue, upgrade the PulseAudio
> daemon to version 3.0, or disable the alternate sampling rate in its
> configuration.
> ====================================================================
If my memory serves me correctly that is a sure indication of some kind of 
problem with the user owning the sound device.

Who owns /dev/audio /dev/dsp and /dev/mixer :  root:audio?
Who is in audio group: 
     grep -P "^audio" /etc/group
mine just has pulse, enforcing the fact that only PulseAudio should do audio 
by accessing the hardware. The other end of the equation, the GUI side is a 
different problem.

-- 
Mark Cross @ 09/22/2013 2:09 p.m.
For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism.

0
Mark
9/22/2013 6:33:33 PM
On Sun, 22 Sep 2013 14:33:33 -0400, Mark Cross wrote:

>> I play the TWiT stream on VLC and hit TTY1...
>
>Hmmm, I didn't mean to use the network, as some setups may lose network 
>connectivity on a deactivation of the logged in user.

No network connectivity is lost.  I was checking conky which has a
network activity plot in most of these.

>So, you only have one good PA configuration: SolusOS 1.2
>I assume that sound does not get out of sync nor presents a message.

When audio stops in the console, VLC always gets out of audio/video
sync, even in SolusOS.  Literally, the lag is the time I spend in the
console.  The error message only comes up in one version of VLC -
these are various versions and the one in SolusOS doesn't come up with
the error, just the out-of-sync.  I thought that was a VLC message but
it may not be.

>> That's all I got to... I have LMDE setup different ways I'll try
>> later.

LMDE Mate compiz/wine PulseAudio default      Turns off, looses sync
LMDE Cinnamon         PulseAudio default      Turns off, looses sync
LMDE Mate             PulseAudio removed      Still plays

>> When VLC audio gets turned off, it gets horribly out of sync and
>> displays a message:
>> ====================================================================
>> Potential PulseAudio version problem:
>> PulseAudio is streaming with an excessive latency. Sound may be lost
>> or quality degraded.  To address that issue, upgrade the PulseAudio
>> daemon to version 3.0, or disable the alternate sampling rate in its
>> configuration.
>> ====================================================================
>If my memory serves me correctly that is a sure indication of some kind of 
>problem with the user owning the sound device.
>
>Who owns /dev/audio /dev/dsp and /dev/mixer :  root:audio?

Yep. root:audio  Interesting these persist in all but LMDE, a udev
thing if I'm not mistaken.

>Who is in audio group: 
>     grep -P "^audio" /etc/group
>mine just has pulse, enforcing the fact that only PulseAudio should do audio 
>by accessing the hardware. The other end of the equation, the GUI side is a 
>different problem.

The unexpected, keeps playing, Ubuntu 10.04 with PA has both pulse and
me in the group.  All the other PAs has just pulse and dogone... the
ones with PA removed have just me! :-)

Bill
-- 
Bill_MI - Bill in Michigan
Expert Opinions $20, Shut-Up $50
0
Bill_MI
9/22/2013 7:59:26 PM
On 21/09/13 11:05, Mark Cross wrote:
> Mark Cross has sent:
>...<lots>
>
Thanks for the offer of help and much info. Right now I have more urgent 
priorities but I'll ferret away all this info for when I surface.

I use Gnome - didn't get around to trying to work out KDE, just went 
with the standard install. Was also a bit put off at the time by moans 
from KDE'ers when v4 (I think) was introduced. Pity Gnome has followed 
by screwing up their system. And M$ by introducing the ribbon in Office 
and Win8. The list goes on - is it progress? Don't answer - treat all as 
just a rant.

-- 
Russell
0
Russell
9/22/2013 9:05:13 PM
Russell Gadd has sent:

> Don't answer - treat all as just a rant.

:)

When you've got the time Russell. No hurry.

-- 
Mark Cross @ 09/22/2013 11:33 p.m.
I am free of all prejudice. I hate everyone equally. — W. C. Fields

0
Mark
9/23/2013 3:34:36 AM
Bill_MI has sent:

> LMDE Mate compiz/wine PulseAudio default      Turns off, looses sync
> LMDE Cinnamon         PulseAudio default      Turns off, looses sync
> LMDE Mate             PulseAudio removed      Still plays
> 
>>> When VLC audio gets turned off, it gets horribly out of sync and
>>> displays a message:

Well, Bill:

I installed LMDE-15-KDE-64bits as default. The sound was perfect. I 
downloaded a video from youtube and started it in VLC, the sound was working 
ok OOTB. I changed to TTY1 and sound stopped, the video carried on as the 
time index (saw it on getting out and getting back in) did change, a lot: 30 
sec. No errors, no sound till I got back to TTY8 (well, that's odd, it 
should be TTY7, well, anyway). The sound was in sync, no problem. Users were 
correctly set (no user in audio or plug). I even changed an option of VLC 
for pulse audio, not that it was needed, but just looking around:
   Tools --> Preferences --> Audio --> Output module --> changed from
      "default" to "Pulse Audio".
No change, no effect. Not that I expected anything to break.

Then I installed LMDE-15-cinnamon-64bit. Gnome 2 ?? yuck !!
Well, I had some video troubles, the video driver did not like my video 
card, I sorted most of the problem and went to sound. Nothing to report may 
be the best description, all was working fine. Well, it was odd that Banshee 
did stop the reproduction for all the time that I was in TTY1, instead of 
keeping on. Any way, no error was reported either by Banshee or VLC.

I don't know what to recommend now Bill. There seems to NOT be a problem of 
the OS. Either you made some changes, or the sound card from that computer 
does not work well with PulseAudio.
Do you want to try an install of KDE-64-Olivia in your computer?

If there is a problem with a clean OS install of KDE, then there is no 
alternative, there must be a problem with the sound card.

Well I am starting to rant, I better shut up for now. :(


-- 
Mark Cross @ 09/23/2013 11:01 a.m.
While having never invented a sin, I’m trying to perfect several.

0
Mark
9/23/2013 3:02:27 PM
On Mon, 16 Sep 2013 06:08:41 -0500, Bill_MI <bill@mi.no.spam.ath.cx> wrote:

> Just curious what others think?

Linux Mint 14 KDE 64bit is the first distro I have used that hasn't given  
me any issues with audio on some level or another. MEPIS and LMDE both  
gave me random oddities, but I have Mint 14 KDE running on the following  
with no audio errors of any kind: Lenovo E531 I use for work, Gateway N56U  
I use for personal, Acer A110 netbook, my wife's Lenovo laptop, home  
server with an Intel board of recent vintage, 6 different public machine  
here on campus of various brand and vintage, and several students who have  
asked me to install it on their laptops.

I know it isn't an LTS edition, but man, this is the best distro I have  
used over the years. YMMV.

-- 
Todd Russell, Director of IT, Saint Joseph Abbey and Seminary College
http://www.sjasc.edu
0
Todd
9/23/2013 4:48:26 PM
Hi Mark,

Hey, thanks for gong the extra.  Unfortunately, I think you're out of
your normal distros...

>I installed LMDE-15-KDE-64bits as default. The sound was perfect. I 
>downloaded a video from youtube and started it in VLC, the sound was working 
>ok OOTB. I changed to TTY1 and sound stopped, the video carried on as the 
>time index (saw it on getting out and getting back in) did change, a lot: 30 
>sec. No errors, no sound till I got back to TTY8 (well, that's odd, it 
>should be TTY7, well, anyway). The sound was in sync, no problem. Users were 
>correctly set (no user in audio or plug). I even changed an option of VLC 
>for pulse audio, not that it was needed, but just looking around:
>   Tools --> Preferences --> Audio --> Output module --> changed from
>      "default" to "Pulse Audio".
>No change, no effect. Not that I expected anything to break.

I believe that must be Linux Mint 15, not LMDE.  At 9 months of
support, I have never looked at LM15 "Olivia".  Their LTS is "Maya"
and so full of personal show-stopper bugs it's been removed from my
consideration.  Nothing to do with audio.

LMDE (Linux Mint Debian Edition) is a semi-rolling-snapshot and gee, I
can see the confusion, they really play it down on Mint's main page.

Coincidentally, LMDE just released a huge Update Pack 7 TODAY.  I was
waiting for it for different reasons.

LMDE only has Cinnamon and Mate desktops.  I imagine the repos have
XFCE and KDE but they've been officially dropped by Mint.

That's where SolydXK comes in - SolydX(fce) and SolydK(de).  I really
like SolydX, another semi-rolling release spun from LMDE.

I look at KDE every year or so... Last was OpenSuse 12.3 last March.
Sure enough, I still don't like ANYTHING about KDE.

>Then I installed LMDE-15-cinnamon-64bit. Gnome 2 ?? yuck !!

Sure you didn't get the Mate desktop?  That's very much like Gnome 2.
Cinnamon (yuk!!) isn't like Gnome 2 (yay!) at all.

>Well, I had some video troubles, the video driver did not like my video 
>card, I sorted most of the problem and went to sound. Nothing to report may 
>be the best description, all was working fine. Well, it was odd that Banshee 
>did stop the reproduction for all the time that I was in TTY1, instead of 
>keeping on. Any way, no error was reported either by Banshee or VLC.
>
>I don't know what to recommend now Bill. There seems to NOT be a problem of 
>the OS. Either you made some changes, or the sound card from that computer 
>does not work well with PulseAudio.
>Do you want to try an install of KDE-64-Olivia in your computer?

"Olivia" is LM15, not the Debian Edition.

>If there is a problem with a clean OS install of KDE, then there is no 
>alternative, there must be a problem with the sound card.

I'm not looking for a complete new flavor of desktop.  Someday I might
dive head first into KDE but it takes about an hour of open-minded
playing around on it to convince me it's STILL not for me.

Bill
-- 
Bill_MI - Bill in Michigan
Expert Opinions $20, Shut-Up $50
0
Bill_MI
9/23/2013 9:52:36 PM
On 09/23/2013 05:52 PM, Bill_MI wrote:
> Someday I might
> dive head first into KDE but it takes about an hour of open-minded
> playing around on it to convince me it's STILL not for me.

It's interesting how people's preferences can be so different. Me, I 
can't bring myself to use anything *but* KDE. Which would also explain 
why there are so many DTEs out there to chose from. So much different 
from the Windows or iOS take-it-or-leave-it.

-- 
Mark Warner
MEPIS Linux
Registered Linux User #415318
....lose .inhibitions when replying
0
Mark
9/23/2013 10:58:42 PM
Bill_MI has sent:

> Hi Mark,
> 
> Hey, thanks for gong the extra.  Unfortunately, I think you're out of
> your normal distros...

Of course I am out of my comfort zone, and it clearly shows. But if you 
don't appreciate the effort then it is only your loss, I am learning, and 
that is always good.

>>I installed LMDE-15-KDE-64bits as default.

> I believe that must be Linux Mint 15, not LMDE.

Fine, back to the drawing board. I'll chase down this LMDE and test it.


>>I even changed an option of VLC for pulse audio, not that it was
>>needed, but just looking around:
>>   Tools --> Preferences --> Audio --> Output module --> changed from
>>      "default" to "Pulse Audio".

Did you read this?  ^^^^^^^^



> LMDE only has Cinnamon and Mate desktops.  I imagine the repos have
> XFCE and KDE but they've been officially dropped by Mint.

> That's where SolydXK comes in - SolydX(fce) and SolydK(de).  I really
> like SolydX, another semi-rolling release spun from LMDE.

Hmmm, understood.

> I look at KDE every year or so... Last was OpenSuse 12.3 last March.
> Sure enough, I still don't like ANYTHING about KDE.

Your choice.
 
>>Then I installed LMDE-15-cinnamon-64bit. Gnome 2 ?? yuck !!
 
> Sure you didn't get the Mate desktop?  That's very much like Gnome 2.
> Cinnamon (yuk!!) isn't like Gnome 2 (yay!) at all.

Ok, Mate "for the test" it will be.

>>Do you want to try an install of KDE-64-Olivia in your computer?
> 
> "Olivia" is LM15, not the Debian Edition.

Errr, I believe you made that clear already, yes, I am wrong, So?

>>If there is a problem with a clean OS install of KDE, then there is no
>>alternative, there must be a problem with the sound card.
 
> I'm not looking for a complete new flavor of desktop.  Someday I might
> dive head first into KDE but it takes about an hour of open-minded
> playing around on it to convince me it's STILL not for me.

Oo .. o .. o .. OK !

Not even to test the sound? Then I should not have installed anything gnome, 
cinnamon, Mate or else, because I really do not like gnome. And I can give 
you a whole list of logical reasons, additional to it not being my taste.

I am not saying that you Must, nor that you could not use gnome, cinnamon or 
mate. It is your choice, your taste, fine.

But I do have MY preference, my taste, sorry that it does not *exactly* 
march yours, but I don't see why it should be a problem. Or even if it is.

You may cheer for "Juventus", I may like "Real Madrid", so what? We both may 
enjoy futbol all the same: Gooool !!!.

-- 
Mark Cross @ 09/24/2013 12:22 a.m.
Worry is like a rocking chair; it keeps you busy, but gets you nowhere.

0
Mark
9/24/2013 4:46:28 AM
Mark Cross has sent:

>>>I installed LMDE-15-KDE-64bits as default.
> 
>> I believe that must be Linux Mint 15, not LMDE.

I just realized that you provided no links to the distro source
Keeping it secret?

Nah, that must not be it. 


-- 
Mark Cross @ 09/24/2013 12:58 a.m.
I cannot tolerate intolerant people.

0
Mark
9/24/2013 5:00:11 AM
Bill_MI has sent:

> PulseAudio
> daemon to version 3.0, or disable the alternate sampling rate in its
> configuration.

I am using 2.0-6.1 from stable and has been working fine, I don't think you 
need 3.0 (in fact, debian repositories do not have 3.0, they have 4.0 in 
unstable).

Do you have an app called vlc-pulse-plugin installed ?

-- 
Mark Cross @ 09/22/2013 2:45 p.m.
Go to heaven for the climate and hell for the company. — Mark Twain
0
Mark
9/24/2013 9:50:35 AM
On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 01:00:11 -0400, Mark Cross wrote:

>I just realized that you provided no links to the distro source

Just completed LMDE Update Pack 7 on the LMDE install with pulseaudio
removed.  Phew.  1163 updates and it stopped a lot.

Anyway...
http://www.linuxmint.com/download_lmde.php
I use Mate (Gnome 2 fork) but have a Cinnamon install I don't look at
much.

My favorite over the last few months...
http://solydxk.com/
I think they've been the worst with pulseaudio.  Lots of overlap in
forum participation with LMDE.  I'm all SolidX (XFCE) of course.

Running to work.  More later.

Bill
-- 
Bill_MI - Bill in Michigan
Expert Opinions $20, Shut-Up $50
0
Bill_MI
9/24/2013 11:36:18 AM
Bill_MI has sent:

> Just completed LMDE

Ok, LMDE Mate 64 installed. PulseAudio comes installed but they have the 
user with UID 1000 (the first one) in audio. I removed it. Installed VLC, 
but not having a video to test, I decided to download one. Trying to fire up 
Firefox, it breaks, could no access the web with Firefox, as it does not 
work. Installed Opera, but it has no add-on to download you-tube.

Just annoyed I decided to update all the packages. I'll try again later.

> Update Pack 7 on the LMDE install with pulseaudio
> removed.  Phew.  1163 updates and it stopped a lot.

Yep, I am updating the same, 680MByte (a full CD).

> My favorite over the last few months...
> http://solydxk.com/
> I think they've been the worst with pulseaudio.  Lots of overlap in
> forum participation with LMDE.  I'm all SolidX (XFCE) of course.

Ok, being download now.
 
> Running to work.  More later.

Yep. Have a nice day.

-- 
Mark Cross @ 09/24/2013 5:10 p.m.
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new 
discoveries, is not ‘Eureka!’, but ‘That’s funny…’ — Isaac Asimov

0
Mark
9/24/2013 9:20:15 PM
On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 17:20:15 -0400, Mark Cross wrote:

>Ok, LMDE Mate 64 installed. PulseAudio comes installed but they have the 
>user with UID 1000 (the first one) in audio. I removed it. Installed VLC, 
>but not having a video to test, I decided to download one. Trying to fire up 
>Firefox, it breaks, could no access the web with Firefox, as it does not 
>work. Installed Opera, but it has no add-on to download you-tube.

I memorized the TWiT stream so I always have something to play:
http://bglive-a.bitgravity.com/twit/live/high

I want to see the effect of this audio group.  It may take another
install to do it right.

Have you ever done Skype?  Not unexpectedly, it handles audio like a
cow with lead boots in a mudpatch but generally works well.  Works out
of the box on Ubuntus.

>Just annoyed I decided to update all the packages. I'll try again later.
>
>> Update Pack 7 on the LMDE install with pulseaudio
>> removed.  Phew.  1163 updates and it stopped a lot.
>
>Yep, I am updating the same, 680MByte (a full CD).

I sometimes think a CD would be MUCH quicker. :-)  My #2 LMDE (I have
2 installed in different partitions) survived UP7 ok... just got home
from a loooong day and may not have much left to look at a screen.  I
have a 3rd LMDE on an oooold Vaio laptop, too.

Bill
-- 
Bill_MI - Bill in Michigan
Expert Opinions $20, Shut-Up $50
0
Bill_MI
9/25/2013 12:00:23 AM
Bill_MI has sent:

> On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 17:20:15 -0400, Mark Cross wrote:

[...]

> I memorized the TWiT stream so I always have something to play:
> http://bglive-a.bitgravity.com/twit/live/high

Or just http://twit.am/listen  for sound. :)

But I think I have said that I don't like to test with online streams, they
could break for other reasons that make the test ineffective, and, they show
no reliable time indicator that could be used to detect if the play back
stopped or kept working. Yes, I think I did say that before. :) 

> I want to see the effect of this audio group.  It may take another
> install to do it right.

Just hold for a while, I'll report back as soon as I have made the tests.
Yesterday was not possible, maybe today will be a better day. :)
 
> Have you ever done Skype?  Not unexpectedly, it handles audio like a
> cow with lead boots in a mudpatch but generally works well.  Works out
> of the box on Ubuntus.

Oh, Yes, I have done Skype, have used Skype, have killed skype, old
version, new version, linux version. You named, I've done it,
till Microsoft took it.

>>Yep, I am updating the same, 680MByte (a full CD).
 
> I sometimes think a CD would be MUCH quicker. :-)

That is a drawback of "rolling" distros.

There is a package to pre-download all needed packages, so when you fire
up the updater, just install and be done. The downloading part will be
done in the background with out you noticing. It works for Debian,
should work here:

Or use the apt-get config options:
    http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch02.en.html#_automatic_download_and_upgrade_of_packages
    http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch02.en.html#_limiting_download_bandwidth_for_apt

Otherwise, (my preferred method), the --download-only option to apt-get is your friend:
    -d, --download-only
    Download only; package files are only retrieved, not unpacked or installed.
        Configuration Item: APT::Get::Download-Only.
Just make a cron job to get the files (command):
    apt-get -d dist-upgrade

-- 
Mark Cross @ 09/25/2013 11:10 a.m.
Truth above all, even when it upsets and overwhelms us. — Henri Frédéric Amie

0
Mark
9/25/2013 3:11:11 PM
Mark Cross has sent:

> Bill_MI has sent:
> 
>> On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 17:20:15 -0400, Mark Cross wrote:
> 
> [...]

Issues found so far:
1.- User UID 1000 found in group audio on install.
2.- Firefox failed to work forcing an update.
3.- Most videos lose sync quite easily, may be a video issue.
4.- After update, the TTY trick makes vlc lose the sync, quite a lot.
5.- Removed alsa-base and alsa-utils, reboot, worse.
6.- Got skype debian-7.0-multiarch, installed. Need a lot of 32 bit
    packages. Mainly solved with "apt-get -f install". Or/and
    apt-get install libqt4-webkit.
7.- Sound just does NOT work at all. No output, no mic, no options,
    forget it, in this conditions sound will never work. Skype is
    trying to use ALSA, additionally ALSA i386 (32 bit), ALSA is not
    installed.
8.- Reboot, just to confirm. Hmmm, some sound, but mic does not work. Yes, 
Skype is accessing directly Alsa to reach the sound card. No possible 
solution. Pulse audio does provide a connection to the sound card for ALSA, 
that is, sound could travel from App to ALSA to PA to card. Provided the app 
does not ask for direct connection. Which the i386 (32 bit) does (old code).
Try this if you want to confirm:
    https://support.skype.com/en/faq/FA10964/can-i-change-the-sound-system-
used-by-skype-for-linux

The command "ldd /usr/bin/skype" does not show any missing module.
For example:
https://support.skype.com/en/faq/FA10964/can-i-change-the-sound-system-used-
by-skype-for-linux

Aha, after playing a lot with the available devices (as reported by skype) 
it started working (do NOT ask me, I changed nothing external to skype).

But even if skype is working, mic bell and call sound, it does not appear in 
the list of applications using audio (click right mouse button over the mic 
icon down right, select "sound preferences", select tab for applications.)
that Pulse Audio reports. Nope, something is still wrong.

In fact, starting a VLC video (to get PulseAudio doing something) completely 
blocks Skype.

9.- Installed padevchooser (in synaptic), oddly enough, it pulled paman, 
pavucontrol and pavumeter. It is odd, not because they had to be installed, 
but because pavucontrol is the same app that is used for volumen control in 
the original distro, and, because all should have been installed already if 
it is reported that PulseAudio is installed. They are playing with the 
packages and getting everything broken.
Well, in any  case, I rebooted (sound has this odd need) and started the app 
padevchooser, to take a look at the complex part of PA. Well, nothing 
important out of the ordinary that I could spot.

Skype is just ignoring PulseAudio devices, nothing else to do.



Fine, battle lost, let's retreat !!

I'll Uninstall PulseAudio, Install ALSA, reboot, retest.

I'll report back latter.


Note: Yes, all about sound is coming back, no problem :)
-- 
Mark Cross @ 09/25/2013 10:39 p.m.
People tend to make rules for others and exceptions for themselves.
0
Mark
9/26/2013 2:40:57 AM
Mark,

Wow, I'm looking forward to hearing what you find.  Excellent notes!
I say that because it triggers my memory of some quirks I've observed
that are plain hard to convey and only happens initially.

It's very much like states (such as levels and selections) aren't
initially in sync and it takes some action to get them out of a bad
state.  I'm talking some logical state which I know you understand
well.

I assume it's the PA and ALSA controls not in sync BICBW.

Initially, you noticed the MIC wasn't working.  At that point I'd bet
if you opened alsamixer and wiggle/toggle/set all the controls
associated with MIC it would come to life.  It's very much as if some
syncing takes place which gets them out of that bad state.

PA controls never seem to accomplish this, only alsamixer (or alsa
volume controls in general, like a GUI equivalent, but I've only used
alsamixer in recent times).

Once in sync, things will start working better.  And yes, I mean this
is after a fresh install ONLY.

This isn't the only problem, of course, as it looks like you're
seeing.  Just one of 'em. :-|

Let your fun and learning be your guide, no urgency here.  I really
appreciate your eyes on this.

Bill
-- 
Bill_MI - Bill in Michigan
Expert Opinions $20, Shut-Up $50
0
Bill_MI
9/26/2013 5:25:45 AM
Mark Cross wrote:

> Mark Cross has sent:
> 
>> Bill_MI has sent:
>> 
>>> On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 17:20:15 -0400, Mark Cross wrote:
>> 
>> [...]
> 
> Issues found so far:
> 1.- User UID 1000 found in group audio on install.
> 2.- Firefox failed to work forcing an update.
> 3.- Most videos lose sync quite easily, may be a video issue.
> 4.- After update, the TTY trick makes vlc lose the sync, quite a lot.
> 5.- Removed alsa-base and alsa-utils, reboot, worse.
> 6.- Got skype debian-7.0-multiarch, installed. Need a lot of 32 bit
>     packages. Mainly solved with "apt-get -f install". Or/and
>     apt-get install libqt4-webkit.
> 7.- Sound just does NOT work at all. No output, no mic, no options,
>     forget it, in this conditions sound will never work. Skype is
>     trying to use ALSA, additionally ALSA i386 (32 bit), ALSA is not
>     installed.
> 8.- Reboot, just to confirm. Hmmm, some sound, but mic does not work. Yes,
> Skype is accessing directly Alsa to reach the sound card. No possible
> solution. Pulse audio does provide a connection to the sound card for
> ALSA, that is, sound could travel from App to ALSA to PA to card. Provided
> the app does not ask for direct connection. Which the i386 (32 bit) does
> (old code). Try this if you want to confirm:
>     https://support.skype.com/en/faq/FA10964/can-i-change-the-sound-system-> used-by-skype-for-linux
> 
> The command "ldd /usr/bin/skype" does not show any missing module.
> For example:
> https://support.skype.com/en/faq/FA10964/can-i-change-the-sound-system-used-> by-skype-for-linux
> 

> Aha, after playing a lot with the available devices (as reported by skype)
> it started working (do NOT ask me, I changed nothing external to skype).
> 
> But even if skype is working, mic bell and call sound, it does not appear
> in the list of applications using audio (click right mouse button over the
> mic icon down right, select "sound preferences", select tab for
> applications.) that Pulse Audio reports. Nope, something is still wrong.
> 
> In fact, starting a VLC video (to get PulseAudio doing something)
> completely blocks Skype.
> 

> 9.- Installed padevchooser (in synaptic), oddly enough, it pulled paman,
> pavucontrol and pavumeter. It is odd, not because they had to be
> installed, but because pavucontrol is the same app that is used for
> volumen control in the original distro, and, because all should have been
> installed already if it is reported that PulseAudio is installed. They are
> playing with the packages and getting everything broken.
> Well, in any  case, I rebooted (sound has this odd need) and started the
> app padevchooser, to take a look at the complex part of PA. Well, nothing
> important out of the ordinary that I could spot.
> 
> Skype is just ignoring PulseAudio devices, nothing else to do.
> 
> 
> 
> Fine, battle lost, let's retreat !!
> 
> I'll Uninstall PulseAudio, Install ALSA, reboot, retest.
> 
> I'll report back latter.
> 
> 
> Note: Yes, all about sound is coming back, no problem :)

*******

> 5.- Removed alsa-base and alsa-utils, reboot, worse.

> Pulse audio does provide a connection to the sound card for
> ALSA, that is, sound could travel from App to ALSA to PA to card.

> I'll Uninstall PulseAudio, Install ALSA, reboot, retest.

I am unsure what to make of this post, TBH.
Apparently you uninstalled Alsa and then expected sound to work?


As far as I am aware, PulseAudio is a GUI layer on *top* of Alsa which in 
turn communicates with the hardware.
Taking out Alsa would tend to break things most horribly.

You can disable PulseAudio and communicate directly with Alsa ....  even set 
up the likes of Skype to do so if you wish.
With PulseAudio enabled, Skype will use it and not Alsa directly.



0
ClareOldie
9/26/2013 8:47:41 PM
ClareOldie has sent:

> I am unsure what to make of this post, TBH.
> Apparently you uninstalled Alsa and then expected sound to work?

Sure I did uninstall ALSA, sure I expect Pulse Audio to do it all.

Well, I got it working didn't I ?

> As far as I am aware, PulseAudio is a GUI layer on *top* of Alsa which in
> turn communicates with the hardware.

As far as I can test (and I will be happy to be corrected if I am wrong): 
The only user (be it a system user or a human user) that can access (via the 
group share, root is the owner) the hardware card is the "audio" group.

The audio group only should have pulse (the system user pulse, I mean), 
therefore, the only user that could access the hardware card (the device) is 
the pulse user. That is the correct way this system should work.

Pulse audio sends sound to the hardware card.

In fact, Pulse audio could even be a network system that sends sound to 
other devices in some other computer. It also could be a "system level" 
sound processing unit in which, as soon as the computer is on, the sound 
system works. There is no need for any gui applet to be active, PulseAudio 
takes control of the whole system.

That is activated with the option:

    PULSEAUDIO_SYSTEM_START=0

in the file /etc/default/pulseaudio.
A lot of people get confused by such config option,and several web sites 
make the recommendation to change it to 1. That is wrong and misleading. The 
PA system will work perfectly well, for each user, with that value in 0. 
That is the default, don't change it (unless you really know what you are 
doing). If set to 1, the PA system controls the hardware even if no user is 
logged in and will serve sound as ALSA did: sharing the sound with all 
users, an insecure proposal, one that PulseAudio set to eliminate.

You could remove Alsa: alsa-base, alsa-utils, alsamixergui, alsa-source (if 
installed) and GStreamer0.xx-alsa (in gnome). Those are NOT used, they serve 
no useful end as they are NOT accessing the hardware.

What you usually could NOT remove is libasond. If you try to remove it, a 
lot of apps will complain and say: I could not work, remove me !!!.
But that is in the other end, it is the library, the ALSA library for 
applications. That provides a way for applications to connect to ALSA and 
send sound streams to it.

And many apps still depend on the ALSA library to work, that should change 
slowly till most apps do use PulseAudio by default. PulseAudio is just 
providing an easy way for those apps to work by accepting (via a pulse audio 
driver) sound from libasound.

Then sound travels from the app to ALSA through libasound, then to 
PulseAudio to activate each of the sound levels, and be mixed with many 
other sources, and from there, directly to the sound card. As said PA could 
and should send audio to hardware.

What could, and many times happen is that ALSA is still active and owns the 
sound card and all this round trip needs to be done:
    App --> libasound --> PulseAudio --> ALSA --> sound card.

That just increase latency, makes the sound system even more prone to 
breakage and problems and is not the recommended way to work. 

> Taking out Alsa would tend to break things most horribly.

Only the apps that could not talk to PulseAudio directly, a problem of the 
apps, not of PulseAudio.
 
> You can disable PulseAudio and communicate directly with Alsa ....  even
> set up the likes of Skype to do so if you wish.

Hmmm, yes, I do know, thanks.

But you are not realizing that PulseAudio is a complete audio system as much 
as ALSA is. Do you remember aRTS? the audio server in KDE 3 and before?

It was a valid sound server as well.

As was OSS before that.

That has been the problem with audio in Linux, a lot of sound systems that 
work in different ways, and app developers had to make a choice. Now it 
seems that we are all falling in the idea that PulseAudio is Indeed the 
solution. But many apps have just NOT make the switch, just yet.

> With PulseAudio enabled, Skype will use it and not Alsa directly.

Errr, not, sorry, that is wrong. Skype is not accessing pulse audio in the 
correct way, is not using the PulseAudio library. I fail to grasp all the 
details to explain it correctly to you.

In fact, the test I just performed did not show pulse as a valid option in 
Skype, it was NOT using, or even seeing that PulseAudio was there. I have 
seen that, several times in the past. Simply put: skype fails to understand 
sound systems.

-- 
Mark Cross @ 09/26/2013 4:57 p.m.
The shortest distance between two points is under construction.

0
Mark
9/26/2013 10:04:16 PM
Bill_MI has sent:

Ok, this is very short but not so sweet. On disabling PulseAudio, the system 
knew already that alsa was needed and showed it to be installed. The only 
odd thing is that VLC was prompted to be uninstalled. I could not see why 
but accepted the change. Uninstalled paman, pavucontrol, pulse, etc.

Alsa-base and alsa-utils came back.

The mixer changed from the PA front end to the ALSA front end. Volume 
controls were vertical again. Yes, that is configurable, but I did not 
changed it before, so they were default in vertical position for ALSA.

Skype worked fine, same devices as before (tested others and no change).

Playing a local video with banshee started a very warped version of the 
song. The TTY trick did not stop the sound.

Reinstalling vlc, prompted a re-install of pulse-something. Looks like the 
version of vlc in LMDE is compiled for pulse only.

Odd (not expected) TTY trick did work with VLC.
      Hmm: user is not in audio group.

Ohh, God, Banshee broken, VLC broken. Now I managed to break everything.

The best possible solution may be to reinstall the system, I'll probably not 
do that. So end of it, unless you wan't need to test something.


> I assume it's the PA and ALSA controls not in sync BICBW.

Yep, specially for Skype. Skype really is a piece of work !!

It is always a source of concern.

> This isn't the only problem, of course, as it looks like you're
> seeing.  Just one of 'em. :-|

Yes, Bill, I have experienced most of them I believe. So many systems that 
had their own quirks. I hoped that such problems were a matter of the past, 
but I can see that this gnome2 LMDE thing brings back most of them.

Sorry that you are in such swamp, and drowning slowly. :(

Yes, I can see now why switching to ALSA is a valid option in such distro.
 
> Let your fun and learning be your guide, no urgency here.  I really
> appreciate your eyes on this.

Thanks Bill.

-- 
Mark Cross @ 09/26/2013 6:35 p.m.
Tracers work both ways.

0
Mark
9/26/2013 11:21:54 PM
Thanks, Mark.

The family uses Skype so it's a factor, but not the only one as you
see.

BTW, I thought there was a few different setups to retain ALSA
compatibility.  One was all PA and one was the combo of the 2.  ICBW
but package naming often throws a curve - gotta read descriptions.

I got some clarity to some PA as I go into the future.  Thanks.

Bill
-- 
Bill_MI - Bill in Michigan
Expert Opinions $20, Shut-Up $50
0
Bill_MI
9/27/2013 1:24:23 AM
Mark Cross wrote:

> ClareOldie has sent:
> 
>> I am unsure what to make of this post, TBH.
>> Apparently you uninstalled Alsa and then expected sound to work?
> 
> Sure I did uninstall ALSA, sure I expect Pulse Audio to do it all.
> 
> Well, I got it working didn't I ?
> 
>> As far as I am aware, PulseAudio is a GUI layer on *top* of Alsa which in
>> turn communicates with the hardware.
> 
> As far as I can test (and I will be happy to be corrected if I am wrong):
> The only user (be it a system user or a human user) that can access (via
> the group share, root is the owner) the hardware card is the "audio"
> group.
> 
> The audio group only should have pulse (the system user pulse, I mean),
> therefore, the only user that could access the hardware card (the device)
> is the pulse user. That is the correct way this system should work.
> 
> Pulse audio sends sound to the hardware card.
> 

Maybe this is a matter of what words are used ......  Alsa Sound Server Vs 
Alsa Driver  ....

Maybe this will help explain what I am trying to say ....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PulseAudio

"In a typical installation scenario under Linux, the user configures ALSA to 
use a virtual device provided by PulseAudio. Thus, applications using ALSA 
will output sound to *PulseAudio, which then uses ALSA itself to access the 
real sound card.*"

There is an Alsa-PA plugin to create this virtual connection for those apps 
that cannot yet 'speak' to PA directly.

"Sound source ⟶ PulseAudio ⟶ ALSA driver ⟶ Hardware"

One item I am user of .....  is PA set up system-wide or 
"PULSE_SERVER_TYPE=personal"? (in /etc/sysconfig/pulseaudio on this 
distro)
I'm not sure what the effects might be of a change there.


..

0
ClareOldie
9/27/2013 9:25:31 AM
ClareOldie has sent:

> Mark Cross wrote:
> 
>> ClareOldie has sent:

[...]
 
>> Pulse audio sends sound to the hardware card.

> Maybe this is a matter of what words are used ......  Alsa Sound Server Vs
> Alsa Driver  ....
 
> Maybe this will help explain what I am trying to say ....
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PulseAudio

Is that your source? Wikipedia? Then, it is wrong. What a shocking surprise.

What does "pactl list" lists?
Those are the control drivers PA is using. Some alsa modules? good!! those 
are small software drivers that PA is able to use, not the ALSA sound core.

However, who is controlling the hardware?:
    $ fuser -v /dev/snd/*
    $ fuser -v /dev/dsp

Pulseaudio does here.



This page for archlinux does have a lot of hints:
    https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PulseAudio

And, This ALSA page says it all:
    http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/PulseAudio/FAQ/#index25h3
    " Check that no users are part of the "audio" group.
      By removing all users from the "audio" group (the PulseAudio
      server still runs in the "audio" group), PulseAudio is able
      manage access to sound devices (/dev/snd/*) amongst multiple
      users with the help of ConsoleKit. "


> One item I am user of .....  is PA set up system-wide or
> "PULSE_SERVER_TYPE=personal"? (in /etc/sysconfig/pulseaudio on this
> distro)
> I'm not sure what the effects might be of a change there.

Ah, PCLinuxOS, yes. Did you read anything about
     PULSEAUDIO_SYSTEM_START=0

That I wrote in the previous post?, ring a bell, maybe?

-- 
Mark Cross @ 09/27/2013 3:51 p.m.
It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our 
humanity. — Albert Einstein

0
Mark
9/27/2013 7:59:41 PM
Mark Cross wrote:

>  
>>> Pulse audio sends sound to the hardware card.
> 
>> Maybe this is a matter of what words are used ......  Alsa Sound Server
>> Vs
>> Alsa Driver  ....
>  
>> Maybe this will help explain what I am trying to say ....
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PulseAudio
> 
> Is that your source? Wikipedia? Then, it is wrong. What a shocking
> surprise.
> 
<snip>
> 
> This page for archlinux does have a lot of hints:
>     https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PulseAudio
> 

<snip>
> 
> Ah, PCLinuxOS, yes. Did you read anything about
>      PULSEAUDIO_SYSTEM_START=0
> 
> That I wrote in the previous post?, ring a bell, maybe?
> 

Maybe you should read the links you post

"PulseAudio

PulseAudio is the default sound server that serves as a proxy to sound 
applications using existing kernel sound components like ALSA or OSS. Since 
ALSA is included in Arch Linux by default so the most common deployment 
scenarios include PulseAudio with ALSA. "

No Alsa huh?

I'm outta here ....  couldn't be bothered dealing with your attitude!


0
ClareOldie
9/29/2013 9:27:26 PM
ClareOldie has sent:

> Maybe you should read the links you post

That's exactly the problem, you are trapped in words. Whatever I say will 
not work. You have not tested any of the commands I provided. If you fail to 
understand what your system does, internally, by looking at the commands 
that tell you what is going on, there is no hope for you.

That is your attitude. This exchange was broken before starting.

> No Alsa huh?

That ALSA is installed do not mean that it should control the hardware.

That's has been your claim, wrong it is.
 
> I'm outta here ....  couldn't be bothered dealing with your attitude!

So, it is my attitude which stops you from testing in your system what is 
happening. Wonderful: yes, leave, you never where decided to be here anyway.

-- 
Mark Cross @ 09/29/2013 6:39 p.m.
Last night I played a blank tape at full blast. The mime next door went 
nuts.

0
Mark
9/29/2013 10:48:16 PM
Bill_MI has sent:

> SolydXK (the X/K is xfce/kde) has much overlap since it was born as
> "LMDE done more like some think it should be" for XFCE and KDE.
 
> There's no lack of sound issues.  They never exactly match what I'm
> doing, of course.

Ok Bill, about SolydX (as promised):

Installed, looks nice, I was not aware that XFCE had improved so much, 
thanks for pointing me in that direction.

Ok, sound, that is our goal here.

1.- User in audio group. The TTY trick did not work in this case.
2.- VLC installed without any problem.
3.- Kuser installed just so I did not have to deal with the gnome user 
control. A bad application, with a worse interface, and missing basic 
elements that should be part of any reasonable user control application.
4.- Skype is in the list of available apps in Synaptic (from the repository) 
so I installed.
5.- Just to be sure, I did apt-get, apt-get dist-upgrade, and apt-get clean.
6.- Reboot.
7.- VLC played video without any problem. TTY trick did not stop sound.
8.- Started Skype. Working. no problem. Well, VLC blocked it.
9.- User removed from audio. Reboot.
10.- VLC working. TTY trick did work. Sound lose sync (a lot).
11.- Skype kind of works, some interruptions on the sound test. Maybe a 
network problem. Still blocked by VLC.
12.- Sound mixer (the sound speaker down-right) is not the Pulse-Audio 
mixer. Pavucontrol successfully started with cli. Its working.
13.- Padevchooser could be started, appears in the status bar. Allows to 
access PulseAudio other controls. Hmmm:
    $ fuser -v /dev/snd/*
                          USER     PID ACCESS COMMAND
    /dev/snd/controlC0:   user    3573 F....  panel-10-mixer
                          user    3638 F....  xfce4-volumed
                          user    3652 F....  pulseaudio

Stopped process 3573 and 3638. Just redundant volume controls.
    3638 did stop (xfce4-volumed), however 3573 restarted by 3504.
    parent 3504 is xfce4-panel, probably the whole session would
    crash if I stop that.

It looks that one app is taking exclusive control of sound blocking others.
     panel-10-mixer should be using PulseAudio as the back-end, not
     accessing hardware by itself.

There is no independent package for panel-10-mixer, so it could not be 
removed.

Re-tested VLC and Skype. Yep they two conflict. If VLC is working, Skype 
gets lost and does not play sound.

In short: SKYPE fails to use the pulseaudio output.

Trying solutions here, nope, no go:
    https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1201242

The desktop manager is not fully prepared to use PulseAudio just yet, IMO.
Maybe if the sound card support hardware mixing there would be no problem.


-- 
Mark Cross @ 09/29/2013 7:02 p.m.
You have enemies? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime 
in your life. — Winston Churchill

0
Mark
9/29/2013 11:05:12 PM
http://tuxradar.com/content/how-it-works-linux-audio-explained

0
Col
9/30/2013 10:24:42 AM
Hi Mark,

>Ok Bill, about SolydX (as promised):
>
>Installed, looks nice, I was not aware that XFCE had improved so much, 
>thanks for pointing me in that direction.

Especially after Gnome went nutso, XFCE had a nice spurt of
popularity.  It advanced slow and steady, not in some flash of
sink-or-swim before-it's-ready strategy some other desktops went
through.

About VLC blocking Skype.  I do know one thing I saw here, quite
plainly.  VLC was controlling MASTER volumes of all the controls I was
looking at.  Here's the fix I found specifically for this.  From my
notes:

/etc/pulse/daemon.conf:
  # apps controlling Master volume
  flat-volumes = no

This didn't occur on Mate.  But I think some other whack-a-mole came
up and it was right after this I purged PA and loved the result.

>Ok, sound, that is our goal here.
>
><snip for GRC complaints>
>Re-tested VLC and Skype. Yep they two conflict. If VLC is working, Skype 
>gets lost and does not play sound.
>
>In short: SKYPE fails to use the pulseaudio output.

Now there's a common theme.

>Trying solutions here, nope, no go:
>    https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1201242
>
>The desktop manager is not fully prepared to use PulseAudio just yet, IMO.
>Maybe if the sound card support hardware mixing there would be no problem.

I wish I had a map of signal/buffer paths showing all that's going on.
I notice Intel singled out in a lot of audio discussion - including a
whole thread of driver options:
http://forums.solydxk.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=137

I played with some of this, just trying to learn something by failure.
It didn't make much sense as there's not much detail exactly what
these do.

Thanks much for the notes.

Bill
-- 
Bill_MI - Bill in Michigan
Expert Opinions $20, Shut-Up $50
0
Bill_MI
9/30/2013 10:49:49 AM
Col. has sent:

> http://tuxradar.com/content/how-it-works-linux-audio-explained

Thanks. That is a good explanation from 2010.

Care to tell me what this command does in your system?
Thanks.

    $ fuser -v /dev/snd/*

-- 
Mark Cross @ 09/30/2013 12:37 p.m.
For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism.

0
Mark
9/30/2013 4:41:00 PM
On 01/10/13 05:41, Mark Cross wrote:
> Col. has sent:
>
>> http://tuxradar.com/content/how-it-works-linux-audio-explained
>
> Thanks. That is a good explanation from 2010.
>
> Care to tell me what this command does in your system?
> Thanks.
>
>      $ fuser -v /dev/snd/*
>

$ fuser -v /dev/snd/*
                      USER        PID ACCESS COMMAND
/dev/snd/controlC0:  col       16662 F.... kded4
                      col       16955 F.... kmix
/dev/snd/controlC1:  col       16662 F.... kded4
                      col       16955 F.... kmix
/dev/snd/controlC2:  col       16662 F.... kded4
                      col       16955 F.... kmix
/dev/snd/pcmC0D0p:   col       16964 F...m amarok
/dev/snd/timer:      col       16964 f.... amarok
0
Col
9/30/2013 6:27:31 PM
Col. has sent:

> On 01/10/13 05:41, Mark Cross wrote:
[...]
>> Care to tell me what this command does in your system?
>> Thanks.
>>
>>      $ fuser -v /dev/snd/*

> $ fuser -v /dev/snd/*
>                       USER        PID ACCESS COMMAND
> /dev/snd/controlC0:  col       16662 F.... kded4
>                       col       16955 F.... kmix
> /dev/snd/controlC1:  col       16662 F.... kded4
>                       col       16955 F.... kmix
> /dev/snd/controlC2:  col       16662 F.... kded4
>                       col       16955 F.... kmix
> /dev/snd/pcmC0D0p:   col       16964 F...m amarok
> /dev/snd/timer:      col       16964 f.... amarok

I have to admit that those are *None* of the answers I was expecting

No pulseaudio there? A couple of computers here are:
      $ fuser -v /dev/snd/*
                           USER        PID ACCESS COMMAND
      /dev/snd/controlC0:  user       5165 F.... pulseaudio
      /dev/snd/controlC1:  user       5165 F.... pulseaudio
      /dev/snd/pcmC0D0p:   user       5165 F...m pulseaudio

One with SolidX under test has:
      $ fuser -v /dev/snd/*
                           USER        PID ACCESS COMMAND
      /dev/snd/controlC0:  mcross     3548 F.... panel-10-mixer
                           mcross     3614 F.... pulseaudio
                           mcross     3623 F.... xfce4-volumed
      /dev/snd/pcmC0D0p:   mcross     3623 F...m pulseaudio
      /dev/snd/timer:      mcross     3614 f.... pulseaudio

Hmmm, Maybe: do you have pulseaudio installed and working in your system ?

-- 
Mark Cross @ 09/30/2013 3:09 p.m.
A man wrapped up in himself makes a very small package.

0
Mark
9/30/2013 7:26:17 PM
Bill_MI has sent:

> About VLC blocking Skype.  I do know one thing I saw here, quite
> plainly.  VLC was controlling MASTER volumes of all the controls I was
> looking at.  Here's the fix I found specifically for this.  From my
> notes:
> 
> /etc/pulse/daemon.conf:
>   # apps controlling Master volume
>   flat-volumes = no

Hmmm, It seems to default to "no". Tried anyway (reboot included), was not 
the problem. :(

> This didn't occur on Mate.  But I think some other whack-a-mole came
> up and it was right after this I purged PA and loved the result.

>>Ok, sound, that is our goal here.
[...]
> I wish I had a map of signal/buffer paths showing all that's going on.

That makes two of us.

This may help, or just confuse more (too much information):
    http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/HDA_Analyzer

Or this (security check: not directly from alsa project):
    http://helllabs.org/codecgraph/

> I notice Intel singled out in a lot of audio discussion - including a

Well, thats because it is the name of a driver for a lot of cards:
    https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/sound/alsa/HD-Audio.txt
    " Linux provides a single driver for all controllers, snd-hda-intel. "

> whole thread of driver options:
> http://forums.solydxk.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=137

Ok, I tried some changes to the line:
     options snd-hda-intel model=auto
to "generic", and commenting the whole line. It did NOT work here.

> I played with some of this, just trying to learn something by failure.
> It didn't make much sense as there's not much detail exactly what
> these do.

Not all cards, but a lot of them:
    https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/sound/alsa/HD-Audio-Models.txt

Maybe the ALSA proyect has better (bigger) lists than the kernel.
    http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Help_To_Debug_Intel_HDA


-- 
Mark Cross @ 09/30/2013 3:39 p.m.
If it can go wrong it probably already has.

0
Mark
9/30/2013 7:47:55 PM
>
> Hmmm, Maybe: do you have pulseaudio installed and working in your system ?
>

No. As the kernel drivers are alsa, I decided I didn't need that extra 
layer on top.

0
Col
10/1/2013 3:48:31 AM
Col. has sent:

>> Hmmm, Maybe: do you have pulseaudio installed and working in your system
>> ?
 
> No. As the kernel drivers are alsa, I decided I didn't need that extra
> layer on top.

I can see I have not been able to get tru to you.

The kernel drivers will always be there, no matter who designed and built 
them. Will be used by any sound system that works above them. Pulse Audio 
substitute the Kmix and KDE4 accesses to the cards. It is not a kludge or an 
added control. It is a separate and different sound system.

That is what the fuser command reveals: who control the hardware.

That you believe that the kernel drivers are the whole ALSA system is the 
problem. They are not. Just a small piece on the overall system.

But you may use what you like, I am not telling you to use what I want, 
nothing like that. I am just trying, and clearly failing, to convey some 
ideas to you.

This will not progress, lets agree on disagreeing.

-- 
Mark Cross @ 10/01/2013 12:22 p.m.
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss 
people.

0
Mark
10/1/2013 4:22:35 PM
> That you believe that the kernel drivers are the whole ALSA system is the
> problem.

I never said that.

0
Col
10/1/2013 6:26:42 PM
Col. has sent:

Moving the answer to:
 http://www.GRC.com/groups/techtalk.linux:37807

here. It seems that Knode has reached the end of possible back references.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>--------------------------------------------------

>> That you believe that the kernel drivers are the whole ALSA system
>> is the problem.
 
> I never said that.

True.

Then you don't share the idea of ClaireOldie that ALSA, or parts of it, 
could not be uninstalled: ClaireOldie claim:
    "Apparently you uninstalled Alsa and then expected sound to work?"

Which was the claim I had issue with.

Take that out, and there is nothing in discussion.

So, then, what is in discussion? What is it that you *do* say?


-- 
Mark Cross @ 10/01/2013 8:08 p.m.
There is wisdom of the head and there is wisdom of the heart. — Charles 
Dickens

0
Mark
10/2/2013 12:09:48 AM
On 02/10/13 13:09, Mark Cross wrote:
> Col. has sent:
>
> Moving the answer to:
>   http://www.GRC.com/groups/techtalk.linux:37807
>
> here. It seems that Knode has reached the end of possible back references.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>
>>> That you believe that the kernel drivers are the whole ALSA system
>>> is the problem.
>
>> I never said that.
>
> True.
>
> Then you don't share the idea of ClaireOldie that ALSA, or parts of it,
> could not be uninstalled: ClaireOldie claim:
>      "Apparently you uninstalled Alsa and then expected sound to work?"
>
> Which was the claim I had issue with.
>

ClareOldie is well aware that alsa provides the kernel drivers ( or less 
likely OSS )

> Take that out, and there is nothing in discussion.
>
> So, then, what is in discussion? What is it that you *do* say?
>
>

I posted a link that I found very useful to help demystify the linux 
sound stack. The layer (diagram from the link) between the pulse audio 
and the hardware would be the kernel.



PS: what happened to the post that was here earlier, you know, the one 
where you said "sorry".

0
Col
10/2/2013 5:06:04 AM
Col. has sent:

> ClareOldie is well aware that alsa provides the kernel drivers

But not that parts of ALSA could be uninstalled.


>> So, then, what is in discussion? What is it that you *do* say?

> I posted a link that I found very useful to help demystify the linux
> sound stack. The layer (diagram from the link) between the pulse audio
> and the hardware would be the kernel.

Hmmm, interesting choice of words. So:
    snd_hda_intel would be the kernel, ALSA, Intel or something else?

> PS: what happened to the post that was here earlier, you know, the one
> where you said "sorry".

Sorry? Ah yes, I was sorry to put words in your mouth you didn't say.

I decided that the post was not the correct answer to your post, so, I 
changed it, is that wrong?

But, in any case, here it is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>________________-----------------------------------
Col. has sent:

>> That you believe that the kernel drivers are the whole ALSA system is the
>> problem.
 
> I never said that.

Sorry about that then.

I believe the rest is still valid.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>________________-----------------------------------


-- 
Mark Cross @ 10/02/2013 12:04 p.m.
Never put off until tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow. — Mark 
Twain

0
Mark
10/2/2013 4:30:01 PM
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>
> Hmmm, interesting choice of words. So:
>      snd_hda_intel would be the kernel, ALSA, Intel or something else?
>

A kernel alsa driver. See attached image (hope that's allowed) from 
kernel configuration.




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0
Col
10/2/2013 6:21:13 PM
Col. has sent:

>> Hmmm, interesting choice of words. So:
>>      snd_hda_intel would be the kernel, ALSA, Intel or something else?

> A kernel alsa driver.

Or simply: a kernel driver, one of which will always exists, or the card 
would not work. It happens that it was the ALSA people who did it, yes.

But is it not following the Intel specs for HD? So, is it an Intel driver?




Is this going to take long?

-- 
Mark Cross @ 10/02/2013 3:56 p.m.
If you understand what you’re doing, you’re not learning anything.

0
Mark
10/2/2013 8:00:32 PM
>>> Hmmm, interesting choice of words. So:
>>>       snd_hda_intel would be the kernel, ALSA, Intel or something else?
>
>> A kernel alsa driver.
>
> Or simply: a kernel driver, one of which will always exists, or the card
> would not work. It happens that it was the ALSA people who did it, yes.
>
> But is it not following the Intel specs for HD? So, is it an Intel driver?
>

OK. A kernel alsa driver for intel hardware.

If you remove it, the kernels userland alsa interface ( AKA /dev/snd ) 
for it disappears. See below.

http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/ALSA_Library_API

------------------------------------------------------------------------

$ mplayer testfile.mp3
# fuser -v /dev/snd/*
                      USER        PID ACCESS COMMAND
/dev/snd/controlC0:  col       17743 F.... mplayer
/dev/snd/pcmC0D0p:   col       17743 F...m mplayer
/dev/snd/timer:      col       17743 f.... mplayer

# rmmod snd   <----thats the main alsa module
rmmod: ERROR: Module snd is in use by: ...<snip>... snd_hda_intel

# rmmod snd_hda_intel
# ls -l /dev/snd
total 0
crw-rw----  1 root audio 116,  1 Oct  4  2013 seq
crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 33 Oct  4  2013 timer

$ mplayer testfile.mp3
....
<snip>
....
Failed to initialize audio driver 'alsa'
Could not open/initialize audio device -> no sound.

# modprobe snd_hda_intel
# ls -l /dev/snd
total 0
drwxr-xr-x  2 root root       80 Oct  3 17:39 by-path
crw-rw----  1 root audio 116,  8 Oct  3 17:39 controlC0
crw-rw----  1 root audio 116, 12 Oct  3 17:39 controlC1
crw-rw----  1 root audio 116,  7 Oct  3 17:39 hwC0D2
crw-rw----  1 root audio 116, 11 Oct  3 17:39 hwC1D0
crw-rw----  1 root audio 116,  6 Oct  3 17:39 pcmC0D0c
crw-rw----  1 root audio 116,  5 Oct  3 17:39 pcmC0D0p
crw-rw----  1 root audio 116,  4 Oct  3 17:39 pcmC0D1c
crw-rw----  1 root audio 116,  3 Oct  3 17:39 pcmC0D1p
crw-rw----  1 root audio 116,  2 Oct  3 17:39 pcmC0D2c
crw-rw----  1 root audio 116, 10 Oct  3 17:39 pcmC1D3p
crw-rw----  1 root audio 116,  9 Oct  3 17:39 pcmC1D7p
crw-rw----  1 root audio 116,  1 Oct  4  2013 seq
crw-rw----+ 1 root audio 116, 33 Oct  4  2013 timer

0
Col
10/3/2013 5:17:43 AM
Knode broken AGAIN.


Col. has sent:

>>> A kernel alsa driver.

>> Or simply: a kernel driver, one of which will always exists, or the card
>> would not work. It happens that it was the ALSA people who did it, yes.

>> But is it not following the Intel specs for HD? So, is it an Intel
>> driver?

> OK. A kernel alsa driver for intel hardware.

Yes.

> If you remove it, the kernels userland alsa interface ( AKA /dev/snd )
> for it disappears. See below.

Of course, true, I know. I have stated that just above:
      "or the card would not work"
didn't I? Are you reading?
    
 
First: extending the name ALSA, from a kernel driver supplied by the kernel
site: kernel.org because ALSA people in www.alsa-project.org developed it,
to the whole sound system is wrong.
That would be equivalent to call the whole X-server: NVidia, because the
people at NVidia developed the screen driver. The video stops as soon as my
NVidia driver stops (well I may install the new nouveau driver, but in this
case I have chosen not to, yet). Not news.

The kernel driver comes from kernel.org on the image package, not in any
alsa package.

Second: the kernel has always provided the dev pseudo directory tree as a
way to provide the users with some control of the hardware devices, as a
knob to modify things. You could not claim that the values provided by a
look into the condition of /dev/snd are not a reflection of the condition
of the kernel driver.

The kernel driver should report only pulseaudio as owner.

Third: The ALSA system, controlled by the ~/.asoundrc file should
contain this lines (as recommended by the alsa site):
    pcm.pulse {
        type pulse
    }
    ctl.pulse {
        type pulse
    }
    pcm.!default {
        type pulse
    }
    ctl.!default {
        type pulse
    }

That makes the sound from ALSA being OUTPUT to PulseAudio, an option the
site you repeatably link to does NOT contemplate, or even believe possible.

Fourth: Just read here:
https://www.linux.com/news/hardware/drivers/8100-why-you-should-care-about-
pulseaudio-and-how-to-start-doing-it
    "For instance, the Advanced Linux Sound Architecture (ALSA) project
     includes several distinct components. The set of kernel hardware
     drivers for audio cards is one, and the library that exposes the
     ALSA application programming interface (API) to software is another.
     You need the hardware drivers to get your sound card to produce
     audio, but any particular application may or may not use the library. "

Link I provided a veeeeeery long ago on this thread:
     http://www.GRC.com/groups/techtalk.linux:37763

It is from 2007, and I read it about that time. It made me solve most sound
issues. Perhaps you should put some confidence on what is said there.

And lastly, as already said, If you don't agree:
     We could just end this by agreeing on disagreeing

But the only problem is that you call ALSA a kernel driver.




Is this going to take many more posts? If so, I need to open a new thread,
knode could not manage excessively long back links. Should I?

-- 
Mark Cross @ 10/03/2013 2:39 a.m.
Systems aren’t made from metaphors, paradigms and methodologies. They’re 
made from code, wires and hardware.
0
Mark
10/3/2013 6:42:24 AM
<quote>
Then you don't share the idea of ClaireOldie that ALSA, or parts of it,
could not be uninstalled: ClaireOldie claim:
     "Apparently you uninstalled Alsa and then expected sound to work?"

Which was the claim I had issue with.

Take that out, and there is nothing in discussion.
</quote>

Alsa contains kernel components, userland stuff and an interface between 
them. Alsa would be the kernel sound system used in modern linux 
distro's. ( as opposed to oss which is now depreciated ) To "uninstall 
alsa" could be taken to mean to remove the kernel stuff as well. 
ClareOldie tried to clarify the meaning of "uninstall alsa".

Pulseaudio doesn't control the hardware directly, it uses the kernels 
alsa compliant infrastructure and drivers through the kernel alsa 
interface at /dev/snd/. ( note: oss apps use /dev/dsp )

There appears to be an option where alsa userland applications can be 
served by pulseaudio acting as a middleman.


As all this stuff has been covered before by ClareOldie I am no longer 
interested in going in circles in a battle of semantics.

0
Col
10/3/2013 10:22:17 AM
Col. wrote:

> http://tuxradar.com/content/how-it-works-linux-audio-explained

Thanks for that link .....  useful to have.


0
ClareOldie
10/3/2013 1:18:10 PM
> But the only problem is that you call ALSA a kernel driver.

Submit a bug to the kernel developers.

$ git pull
Already up-to-date.
$ head -n 6 sound/pci/hda/hda_intel.c
/*
  *
  *  hda_intel.c - Implementation of primary alsa driver code base
  *                for Intel HD Audio.
  *
  *  Copyright(c) 2004 Intel Corporation. All rights reserved.

0
Col
10/3/2013 5:47:48 PM
Col. has sent:

> To "uninstall
> alsa" could be taken to mean to remove the kernel stuff as well.
> ClareOldie tried to clarify the meaning of "uninstall alsa".

It is you who are taking it to mean something else.

I precisely defined "uninstall alsa" as:
    http://www.GRC.com/groups/techtalk.linux:37787
    5.- Removed alsa-base and alsa-utils, reboot, worse.

And ClarieOldie got exactly right in the first complain:
    http://www.GRC.com/groups/techtalk.linux:37789
    "    *******
    > 5.- Removed alsa-base and alsa-utils, reboot, worse.


If anyone gets confused with a kernel "alsa driver" are you people, not me.
I never claimed that the kernel driver was to be removed, it is you people 
which read what I have NOT said.




> As all this stuff has been covered before by ClareOldie I am no longer
> interested in going in circles in a battle of semantics.

Neither do I.

-- 
Mark Cross @ 10/03/2013 1:55 p.m.
An empty stomach is not a good political adviser. — Albert Einstein

0
Mark
10/3/2013 6:07:15 PM
Col. has sent:

>> But the only problem is that you call ALSA a kernel driver.
> 
> Submit a bug to the kernel developers.

You are NOT being funny.

You do know that I meant:
  you call "the whole" ALSA "system" a "simple" kernel driver.

That is, the ALSA system has many parts, one of which is a kernel driver.

The kernel driver is NOT the whole ALSA system.

But semantics is the only area of discussion left to you as all the other 
points have been already solved, I do know.

-- 
Mark Cross @ 10/03/2013 2:07 p.m.
I wonder why you can always read a doctor’s bill and never his prescription? 
— Finley Peter Dunne

0
Mark
10/3/2013 6:12:11 PM
ClareOldie has sent:

> Col. wrote:
> 
>> http://tuxradar.com/content/how-it-works-linux-audio-explained
> 
> Thanks for that link .....  useful to have.

Useful to maintain the mistake alive?

-- 
Mark Cross @ 10/03/2013 2:12 p.m.
It’s one thing to give advice, it’s another to take it.

0
Mark
10/3/2013 6:13:05 PM
> You do know that I meant:
>    you call "the whole" ALSA "system" a "simple" kernel driver.
>
> That is, the ALSA system has many parts, one of which is a kernel driver.
>
> The kernel driver is NOT the whole ALSA system.

The first time my words were interpreted that way, I disputed it.

I am still no longer interested in going in circles in a battle of 
semantics.

0
Col
10/3/2013 11:31:10 PM
Col. has sent:

> 
>> You do know that I meant:
>>    you call "the whole" ALSA "system" a "simple" kernel driver.
>>
>> That is, the ALSA system has many parts, one of which is a kernel driver.
>>
>> The kernel driver is NOT the whole ALSA system.
> 
> The first time my words were interpreted that way, I disputed it.

Your only dispute was "I never said that".

But then you never explain what you really are saying, except of keeping 
going in circles around a "kernel driver".

No matter how many circles you take: that is the wrong issue.

> I am still no longer interested in going in circles in a battle of
> semantics.

Fine: stop.

-- 
Mark Cross @ 10/03/2013 7:40 p.m.
Adding sound to movies would be like putting lipstick on the Venus de Milo. 
— Mary Pickford

0
Mark
10/3/2013 11:45:20 PM
On 13-09-16 01:51 PM, Mark Cross wrote:
> Bill_MI has sent:
> 
>> Mine is solidifying... get rid of it!  It's a confusion layer giving no
>> benefit.
>>
>> Apps are confused.
>> Distros are confused.
>> Every tool is limited.
>> Last week's tools and fixits don't work this week.
>> No wonder, complexity asks for chaos!
>>
>> I'll admit much is probably sound-card dependant.
>>
>> Just curious what others think?
> 
> I also had problems (at the start, one year ago) but most issues have been 
> resolved by now. All "just works" now. Just growing pains, I like to think.
> 
> Sure, you could switch to ALSA, or Jack or plain OSS for a little while and 
> then switch back to PA.
> 
> But be aware that OSS has serious issues with some apps, dmix for alsa is 
> quite broken and Jack does not play nice with ALSA.
> 
Pulse and Jack both run on top of ALSA.  I know for a fact that Jack
works great with Alsa (I have been running jack on top of ALSA for many
years).

Pulse is not a replacement, just an abstraction to hide the horrors of ALSA.

0
meganerd
10/6/2013 6:22:53 AM
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One of the goals of PulseAudio is to reroute all sound streams through it, including those from processes that attempt to directly access the ...

Open source identity: PulseAudio creator Lennart Poettering
He likes photography and skiing, but the primary concern of Lennart Poettering is advancing the Linux audio experience with PulseAudio, an open ...

Open source identity: PulseAudio creator Lennart Poettering
He likes photography and skiing, but the primary concern of Lennart Poettering is advancing the Linux audio experience with PulseAudio, an open ...

work in progress » About
work in progress of patrick sébastien Today’s progress was yesterday’s plan. - Author Unknown Blog kiku Projects Music Photo Links Contact About ...

Ubuntu 8.04 强化版 增强中文、多媒体支持 - 51CTO.COM
在 Ubuntu 的各个发行版中,并没有专门发布中文版的 Ubuntu ,如果中国用户想要使用就需要下载中文包以提供系统的中文的支持。而且由于版权等各方面的原因在 Ubuntu 的发行版中也并没有预装功能强大的播放器和解码器。

VLC 2.0.2 update includes Retina Display support
... Digital TV module for Windows. DVB-T and DVB-C work again Fixes for RAR compressed files Fixed DirectShow crashes on exit Improved PulseAudio ...

Newest Questions - Ask Ubuntu - Stack Exchange
I have a computer with Xubuntu 11.04, alsa and pulseaudio.My sound card is a Terratek MKII PCI (CM8738).When I want to hear some sound, I just ...

Fixing volume control in XFCE4
Turns out the problem is caused by xfce4-volumed accessing my sound card directly, while the indicator-applet is using pulse audio. Pulseaudio ...

Commands tagged gnu screen - commandlinefu.com
Great UNIX/Bash commands tagged with gnu screen - see these and many other invaluable command-line nuggets at commandlinefu.com

Resources last updated: 1/10/2016 2:33:15 AM