Linux application question

OK - first off, I have never used Linux.  Back in university, I used
command line Unix systems (anyone else miss "Pine" as an e-mail
client?).  I am considering a Linux installation, but have a couple of
rather critical questions:

1)  I understand that virtually all available Windows software can run
under Linux, through an emulator... Correct?  What sort of performance
decreases can be expected when doing this as opposed to running
applications directly under Microsoft Windows?

2)  How is the stability of Windows apps under Linux?  Specifically,
are the frequent crashes and "blue screen of death" events experienced
under Windows a result of the OS, or the Windows programming (which
presumably would remain unchanged running under an emulator under
Linux)?

3)  I have to run some intensive apps such as Autodesk Inventor,
Algor, Mechanical Desktop, LabView, and a C++ compiler.  Will these
run under Linux, or am I stuck until either I switch apps, or Autodesk
starts porting to Linux?

I am currently running 1 NT4 workstation, 1 Windows 2000 Professional
workstation and a Win98 PC.  I am a former OS/2 user, and am dying to
get away from the Microsoft stuff if possible, but business
requirements make that difficult.

Comments?
0
sts
2/1/2003 2:52:53 AM
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sts@telus.net <sts@telus.net> Combobulated:
> OK - first off, I have never used Linux.  Back in university, I used
> command line Unix systems (anyone else miss "Pine" as an e-mail
> client?).  I am considering a Linux installation, but have a couple of
> rather critical questions:
>
> 1)  I understand that virtually all available Windows software can run
> under Linux, through an emulator... Correct?

Uhmmm, no. Some will work but "virtually all" is a huge overstatement. See
here http://linuxcompatible.org/compat.php?cat=applications&idx=0.

-- 
Ciao,
CRH 8^)>
0
CRH
2/1/2003 3:56:33 AM
On Fri, 31 Jan 2003 18:52:53 -0800, st wrote:

> OK - first off, I have never used Linux.  Back in university, I used
> command line Unix systems (anyone else miss "Pine" as an e-mail
> client?).

Hey, if you really miss it, you can still use it.  In fact, there's even a
Windows version of pine at

http://www.washington.edu/pine/getpine/pcpine.html

> I am considering a Linux installation, but have a couple of rather
> critical questions:
> 
> 1)  I understand that virtually all available Windows software can run
> under Linux, through an emulator... Correct?

I'd say that the majority *won't* run on wine.  Additionally, something
that will run on one build of wine will not necessarily run in a different
build.

> What sort of performance decreases can be expected when doing this as
> opposed to running applications directly under Microsoft Windows?

That depends on the program.  In most cases, though, it will be at least a
little slower.

> 2)  How is the stability of Windows apps under Linux?  Specifically, are
> the frequent crashes and "blue screen of death" events experienced under
> Windows a result of the OS, or the Windows programming (which presumably
> would remain unchanged running under an emulator under Linux)?

Once again, it depends on the program.  One thing you won't have is a blue
screen of death...the program will just crash with an error code.  If the
program is unstable under Windows, then it could run just as poorly under
wine, or it could possibly run more stably, as the implementation of the
windows layer in wine isn't exactly the same as that in Windows.

> 3)  I have to run some intensive apps such as Autodesk Inventor, Algor,
> Mechanical Desktop, LabView, and a C++ compiler.  Will these run under
> Linux, or am I stuck until either I switch apps, or Autodesk starts
> porting to Linux?

Most Linux distros either come with a C++ compiler, or provide one for
download.  Of course, if you're using a lot of Windows-specific headers in
your programs, then this won't help much.  As for the apps you mention,
I'm not sure, but you can check out the application database located at

http://appdb.winehq.org

Odds are though, that *if* they run, they will likely run slowly.

Personally, I would suggest that you try the applications out on wine
first, and on a non-critical system.  However, if you need the programs to
be reliable, sticking with Windows would probably be your best bet.
0
BlueJAMC
2/1/2003 4:33:17 AM
In article <j0dm3v0g4hjrh9o7r02f01dnei8l6m85dp@4ax.com>, sts@telus.net 
says...
> OK - first off, I have never used Linux.  Back in university, I used
> command line Unix systems (anyone else miss "Pine" as an e-mail
> client?).  I am considering a Linux installation, but have a couple of
> rather critical questions:
> 
> 1)  I understand that virtually all available Windows software can run
> under Linux, through an emulator... Correct? 

If by emulator you mean wine -- no.
Some stuff runs, most doesn't, and  the sruff you are talking about - no 
way.

If you mean win4lin or vmware, yes.
Neither of those are free.

> What sort of performance
> decreases can be expected when doing this as opposed to running
> applications directly under Microsoft Windows?

I don't think a generic answer fits.
Generally, with a beefy machine, vmware seems to run well.
The applications you are talking about - I don't know.
> 
> 2)  How is the stability of Windows apps under Linux?  Specifically,
> are the frequent crashes and "blue screen of death" events experienced
> under Windows a result of the OS, or the Windows programming (which
> presumably would remain unchanged running under an emulator under
> Linux)?

Not much more than in windows in my experience running vmware.

> 
> 3)  I have to run some intensive apps such as Autodesk Inventor,
> Algor, Mechanical Desktop, LabView, and a C++ compiler.  Will these
> run under Linux, or am I stuck until either I switch apps, or Autodesk
> starts porting to Linux?

No clue. They should run under vmware. Performance is a ??
Download a vmware 30 day eval and try it :-)
<>

-- 
Bloated Elvis
0
bloated
2/1/2003 4:33:23 AM
"bloated elvis" <thel8elvis@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:MPG.18a51815d81523b8989c1d@news.grc.com...
<snip>
> If by emulator you mean wine -- no.
> Some stuff runs, most doesn't, and  the sruff you are talking about - no
> way.
>
> If you mean win4lin or vmware, yes.
> Neither of those are free.

More detail: VMWare doesn't emulate all of Windows;
it just emulates the low level functionality, and you run
a _real_ copy of Windows under VMWare, as I
understand it.

Since they don't have to reproduce the majority of
Windows functionality, it's much better. Downside
is, you still need to buy and run a copy of Windows,
and you still have any inherent problems in Windows.
0
Ron
2/1/2003 4:18:44 PM
sts@telus.net wrote in
news:j0dm3v0g4hjrh9o7r02f01dnei8l6m85dp@4ax.com: 

> OK - first off, I have never used Linux.  Back in university, I
> used command line Unix systems (anyone else miss "Pine" as an
> e-mail client?).

Pine is included with many Linux Distros and is also available from 
http://www.washington.edu/pine/.  There is also a PC version there.

> I am considering a Linux installation, but have
> a couple of rather critical questions:
> 
> 1)  I understand that virtually all available Windows software can
> run under Linux, through an emulator... Correct?  What sort of
> performance decreases can be expected when doing this as opposed
> to running applications directly under Microsoft Windows?

If you have windows apps that will run under 'wine', they run about the 
same.  But it is not guarenteed that everything windows will run under 
wine.  It is getting better all the time however.
 
> 2)  How is the stability of Windows apps under Linux? 
> Specifically, are the frequent crashes and "blue screen of death"
> events experienced under Windows a result of the OS, or the
> Windows programming (which presumably would remain unchanged
> running under an emulator under Linux)?

Normally ... if they run they run well under wine, but there are 
exceptions.  Crashes almost never take out X ... but it has happened to 
me on occasion (less so than with windows).  You may need an 
alternative login at that point as it may be difficult to get back to a 
command prompt to shut off a locked up X server.  I have a serial cable 
to a PC with terminal emulation software handy for that.  I have never 
crashed the OS with wine.

The most common problem is that the app won't run, period (about 20% of 
the things I have tried) about 10% have crashed after starting ... only 
2 have locked up X and only 1 needed an alternative login to kill the 
server.
 
> 3)  I have to run some intensive apps such as Autodesk Inventor,
> Algor, Mechanical Desktop, LabView, and a C++ compiler.  Will
> these run under Linux, or am I stuck until either I switch apps,
> or Autodesk starts porting to Linux?

There is already an excelent C++ compiler.  What code are you trying to 
compile?  Is the source standards compliant?  I have no experience with 
the other apps you mentioned, sorry.
 
> I am currently running 1 NT4 workstation, 1 Windows 2000
> Professional workstation and a Win98 PC.  I am a former OS/2 user,
> and am dying to get away from the Microsoft stuff if possible, but
> business requirements make that difficult.

Almost any "business" app you want has some sort of replacement under 
Linux.  For you CADD and such, check and see what the cost is to 
migrate your license to Linux from the existing plartform.  If it were 
not for apps I have to support at work, I could stop using MS oses 
today <sigh>

MikeD
0
MikeD
2/3/2003 4:48:01 PM
Linux newbies as well as some seasoned linux users may be interested in a
relatively new phenomenon in the Linux world.

There have been several "micro Linux" releases available that provide a
basic shell and limited functionality that boot from a floppy.

Recently I have been working on boosting one of these, Trinux, to a more
useful level.

Please check out http://www.crak.com/crakstop.htm

This is a full Linux 2.4.19 kernel complete with bash shells, perl, ssh,
ftp, iptables, TcpDump, Tethereal and now NoCat Auth and an Apache server
which form a complete wireless access point for your network that has secure
SSL authentication.

This software allows a user to boot Linux from a CD_ROM and run a
sophisticated dynamic firewall that presents all wireless users with a
log-on screen on their browsers and prevents unauthorized access to their
network.

No hard drive is required. Any laptop with sufficient RAM and a CD_ROM can
be used. When done playing with the Linux system, just pull out the CD_ROM
and you go back to Windows as before.

The system occupies about 250 MB on the CD_ROM and uses about 60MB of RAM.
This leaves plenty of room for modifications and add - ons.

For now, it is only available in the USA by US Mail on a CD_ROM.  Anyone who
can provide a high bandwidth web site for free distribution should contact
me at the e-mail address on the web site.

This is an easy way to introduce yourself to Linux without all the hassles
of disk partitioning and installation and configuring of Linux.

JK


"CRH" <commanderdata@_NOT_myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:b1fghj$1ogv$1@news.grc.com...
> sts@telus.net <sts@telus.net> Combobulated:
> > OK - first off, I have never used Linux.  Back in university, I used
> > command line Unix systems (anyone else miss "Pine" as an e-mail
> > client?).  I am considering a Linux installation, but have a couple of
> > rather critical questions:
> >
> > 1)  I understand that virtually all available Windows software can run
> > under Linux, through an emulator... Correct?
>
> Uhmmm, no. Some will work but "virtually all" is a huge overstatement. See
> here http://linuxcompatible.org/compat.php?cat=applications&idx=0.
>
> --
> Ciao,
> CRH 8^)>
>
0
johnekus
2/8/2003 2:29:34 AM
Even better is to check out distros like Knoppix that have everything you 
need to boot from a CD and run a full system.


johnekus wrote:

> Linux newbies as well as some seasoned linux users may be interested in a
> relatively new phenomenon in the Linux world.
> 
> There have been several "micro Linux" releases available that provide a
> basic shell and limited functionality that boot from a floppy.
> 
> This is an easy way to introduce yourself to Linux without all the hassles
> of disk partitioning and installation and configuring of Linux.
> 
> JK
> 

-- 
Brett I. Holcomb
brettholcomb@R777charter.net
Microsoft MVP
AKA Grunt <><
Remove R777 to email
0
Brett
2/8/2003 4:40:59 PM
Reply:

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