Service Support?

Will Prism have the standard crappy windows service support that VS has?

After creating services with Delphi I really did not like the way it was done in C# and VS.

Even the simple service framework that Colin Wilson wrote a long time ago is more flexible and easier to work with than the VS services.
I particularly like Colin's because you can run it as a console application during development with a simple command line switch
I have not tried what is available in VS 2008 so maybe it's better now.

Later,

--
Tony Caduto
AM Software Design
http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com
0
Tony
11/6/2008 3:03:21 AM
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Tony,

> Will Prism have the standard crappy windows service support that VS has?

yes, it will have the same crappy windows service support.

> After creating services with Delphi I really did not like the way it was done in C# and VS.
>
> Even the simple service framework that Colin Wilson wrote a long time ago is more flexible and easier to work with than the VS services.
> I particularly like Colin's because you can run it as a console application during development with a simple command line switch
> I have not tried what is available in VS 2008 so maybe it's better now.

of course you can always roll your own thing. i personally don't see 
anything in WinForm's service architecture that's in any way inferior to 
Delphi's TService.

YMMV, of course, but i find that approaching everything with a "this is 
gonna suck" attitude, one will often find it does. If you're approaching 
Prim with the expectation "this should be exactly like Delphi in every 
aspect" (and i get the feeling everyone that is complaining here does), 
then by very default, you will be disappointed. Prism is not like 
Delphi. It's not Delphi.

If you want something that's exactly like Delphi, there's a great 
product out there for you: Delphi.
0
marc
11/6/2008 1:27:53 PM
marc hoffman wrote:

> then by very default, you will be disappointed. Prism is not like 
> Delphi. It's not Delphi.
> 
> If you want something that's exactly like Delphi, there's a great 
> product out there for you: Delphi.

Now I'm confused, I thought it would be "Delphi Prism" ;).

-- 
Regards
Jens
0
Utf
11/6/2008 1:43:41 PM
Jens Mühlenhoff wrote:
> Now I'm confused, I thought it would be "Delphi Prism" ;).

Marketing decided a long time ago that Delphi <> Delphi, except when
it's Delphi. Get with the program. ;)
0
Dominic
11/6/2008 2:01:07 PM
On 11/6/08 2:43 PM, Jens Mühlenhoff wrote:
> marc hoffman wrote:
>
>> then by very default, you will be disappointed. Prism is not like
>> Delphi. It's not Delphi.
>>
>> If you want something that's exactly like Delphi, there's a great
>> product out there for you: Delphi.
>
> Now I'm confused, I thought it would be "Delphi Prism" ;).

right. But:

String.Compare('Delphi Prism', 'Delphi') <> 0
0
marc
11/6/2008 2:06:28 PM
Dominic Willems wrote:
> Jens Mühlenhoff wrote:
>> Now I'm confused, I thought it would be "Delphi Prism" ;).
> 
> Marketing decided a long time ago that Delphi <> Delphi, except when
> it's Delphi. Get with the program. ;)

So there is a product called Delphi Delphi? Is it native or managed? :D

-- 
Regards
Jens
0
Utf
11/6/2008 2:27:53 PM
Jens Mühlenhoff wrote:
> So there is a product called Delphi Delphi? Is it native or managed?
> :D

No, there is "Delphi." And then there is "Delphi <something>."

A long time ago they tried to release products called "<something>,"
but the bright guys at BorInCoDero decided that nobody was going to
trust any products called "<something>," so they put "Delphi" in front
of them. Everybody absolutely loves Delphi.

It's very simple, and every programmer out there fell for it. <cough>
;)
0
Dominic
11/6/2008 2:34:39 PM
Jens Mühlenhoff wrote:

> So there is a product called Delphi Delphi? Is it native or managed?
> :D

I think Delphi Delphi is the Native Native version ;)


Cesar Romero
http://www.cesarromero.com.br
http://www.liws.com.br
0
Cesar
11/6/2008 2:51:09 PM
Cesar Romero wrote:
> Jens Mühlenhoff wrote:
> 
>> So there is a product called Delphi Delphi? Is it native or managed?
>> :D
> 
> I think Delphi Delphi is the Native Native version ;)
> 

So it produces microcode instead of machine code to be even more native?

-- 
Regards
Jens
0
Utf
11/6/2008 2:53:47 PM
Tony Caduto wrote:
> Will Prism have the standard crappy windows service support that VS has?
> 
> After creating services with Delphi I really did not like the way it was done in C# and VS.
> 
> Even the simple service framework that Colin Wilson wrote a long time ago is more flexible and easier to work with than the VS services.
> I particularly like Colin's because you can run it as a console application during development with a simple command line switch
> I have not tried what is available in VS 2008 so maybe it's better now.

You can accomplish this behavior by slightly adjusting the code in the 
Program.pas for a Windows Service to check if the current state of that 
service is running or starting

--
Carlo Kok
0
Carlo
11/6/2008 4:14:13 PM
marc hoffman schrieb:

[snip]

> 
> of course you can always roll your own thing. i personally don't see 
> anything in WinForm's service architecture that's in any way inferior to 
> Delphi's TService.
> 
> YMMV, of course, but i find that approaching everything with a "this is 
> gonna suck" attitude, one will often find it does. If you're approaching 
> Prim with the expectation "this should be exactly like Delphi in every 
> aspect" (and i get the feeling everyone that is complaining here does), 
> then by very default, you will be disappointed. Prism is not like 
> Delphi. It's not Delphi.
> 
> If you want something that's exactly like Delphi, there's a great 
> product out there for you: Delphi.

I don't think he means: exactly like Delphi but rather: better than MS
..NET implementation. YOu surely want to have more things to diferentiate
from MS, otherwise you'd always have those nerving questions: why not
use the original (VS) instead of Prism.

It would be better to bring this discussion back to it's roots: what is
better in the Delphi Win32 implementation than in the .NET one? So why
would somebody want it or something similiar to be available in Prism?

Greetings

Markus
0
Markus
11/8/2008 9:53:12 AM
Markus,

> I don't think he means: exactly like Delphi but rather: better than MS
> .NET implementation. YOu surely want to have more things to diferentiate
> from MS, otherwise you'd always have those nerving questions: why not
> use the original (VS) instead of Prism.

Prism is a compiler, not a class framework. it "replaces" C#, not the FCL.

as such, no, we don't generally reinvent what's in the FCL, we provide 
the same experience in consuming the FCL that any proper .NET language 
should provide.

providing enhanced frameworks and component libraries on top of what the 
FCL provides is a great thing (and RO does some of that) but not part of 
the scope or goal of Prism.

this is an important design concept to keep in mind, because any "why do 
you use this (crappy) .NET library instead of doing your own" question 
will boil down to this. it's just not what Prism is about.

it's not what .NET language agnisticism is about, either. Languages 
should be agnostic enough to consume any framework out there, and 
frameworks should be agnostic enough to work with any language out 
there. creating one to only work with a specific other just artificially 
limits the available tool set for *every* .NET developer.

so if someone comes up with a great framework for building services, i 
*hope* it will not be Prism specific.

> It would be better to bring this discussion back to it's roots: what is
> better in the Delphi Win32 implementation than in the .NET one? So why
> would somebody want it or something similiar to be available in Prism?

i couldn't say. from my experience, both work fine (but both lack the 
one feature to easily run the same app as service and non-service 
without some custom code, agreed).
0
marc
11/8/2008 6:29:13 PM
> {quote:title=Carlo Kok wrote:}{quote}
> You can accomplish this behavior by slightly adjusting the code in the 
> Program.pas for a Windows Service to check if the current state of that 
> service is running or starting


Something like this would be nice to have for Prism:

http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Daemons_and_Services



--
Tony Caduto
AM Software Design
http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com
0
Tony
11/11/2008 4:38:25 AM
Tony,

> Something like this would be nice to have for Prism:
>
> http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Daemons_and_Services

sounds like a good third party opportunity to create such a library?
0
marc
11/11/2008 11:26:51 AM
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