What is with the " [Edit] [Edit] [Edit]" posts?

Don't know where I should post this, hopefully a short thread here is
okay.  But, at least with my newsreader, Agent 6, longer threads tend
to get broken into pieces, with "[Edit]" attached to the topic name.
And sometimes longer threads then get  [Edit] [Edit]  and then  [Edit]
[Edit] [Edit]  For example, here is a current thread:

FastMM 4.96 available [Edit] [Edit] [Edit]

How does this happen?  Can I make them show up as one thread?
0
Paul
9/15/2010 2:42:40 PM
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Paul Doland wrote:

> Don't know where I should post this, hopefully a short thread here is
> okay.  But, at least with my newsreader, Agent 6, longer threads tend
> to get broken into pieces, with "[Edit]" attached to the topic name.
> And sometimes longer threads then get  [Edit] [Edit]  and then  [Edit]
> [Edit] [Edit]  For example, here is a current thread:
> 
> FastMM 4.96 available [Edit] [Edit] [Edit]
> 
> How does this happen?  

When a post is edited using the web forum interface it shows up as a
separate post in the NNTP interface with [Edit] appended to the subject
line.

Sometimes the threading gets broken.  IIRC someone said it is when a
post is edited on the web forum interface and then deleted but I'm not
100% on that.

> Can I make them show up as one thread?

That'd be down to your newsreader, but probably not.

-- 
Andy Syms
Technosoft Systems Ltd
0
Andy
9/15/2010 2:49:01 PM
Andy Syms wrote:
> That'd be down to your newsreader, but probably not.

Thunderbird has no issues with edited threads so you might try that.
0
Darko
9/15/2010 3:27:44 PM
Andy Syms laid this down on his screen :
>> Can I make them show up as one thread?
>
> That'd be down to your newsreader, but probably not.

MesNews has no problems with edited threads.

www.mesnews.net

Written in Delphi using ICS.

HTH,
Brad.

-- 

 "Einstein argued that there must be simplified explanations of
 nature, because God is not capricious or arbitrary. No such
 faith comforts the software engineer."
  -- Fred Brooks
0
Brad
9/15/2010 4:24:08 PM
Paul Doland wrote:

> Don't know where I should post this, hopefully a short thread here is
> okay.  But, at least with my newsreader, Agent 6, longer threads tend
> to get broken into pieces, with "[Edit]" attached to the topic name.
> And sometimes longer threads then get  [Edit] [Edit]  and then  [Edit]
> [Edit] [Edit]  For example, here is a current thread:
> 
> FastMM 4.96 available [Edit] [Edit] [Edit]
> 
> How does this happen?  

Answered by Andy.

> Can I make them show up as one thread?

AFAIK the newsreader you're using uses the subject line for the
threaded view. Lots of other newsreader use the "References header" for
showing the threaded view.

The References header in the posts contains a list (a chain) of
message-ids which enables news-readers to determine to what message the
current message was replying to.


For instance your original post has in it's header the following:
Message-ID: <286340@forums.embarcadero.com>

When Andy replied to your message it contains a new unique message-id
and a References header, like this:
Message-ID: <286344@forums.embarcadero.com>
References: <286340@forums.embarcadero.com>

The References header indicates that he was replying to your 
<286340@forums.embarcadero.com> message.

Darco's reply contains the following:
Message-ID: <286359@forums.embarcadero.com>
References: <286340@forums.embarcadero.com> 
            <286344@forums.embarcadero.com>

The References header indicates that he was replying to Andy's message
<286344@forums.embarcadero.com> which on itself was a reply to your
<286340@forums.embarcadero.com> message.

A newsreader supporting/using the References header will be able to
show the correct threaded view even if Andy or Darco would have changed
the subject line of their messages.


There is a *usenet* newsgroup where you can ask specific questions like
the support of threading based on References headers in Forte Agent:
alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent

-- 
Pieter

"If I were two-faced, would I be wearing this one?"
 -- Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865)
0
Pieter
9/16/2010 1:11:23 AM
Andy Syms wrote:

> Sometimes the threading gets broken.  IIRC someone said it is when a
> post is edited on the web forum interface and then deleted but I'm not
> 100% on that.

You're using a so called off-line reader, basically it downloads the
complete messages of this newsgroup/forum. If you reply to a message
which is in your local "data-store" but no longer available on the
newsserver/forum *this* server removes the references header of your
post. This causes your reply to a deleted post to show up as a new
post/thread except for those newsreaders which does not (or partly) use
the References header and mainly use the subject line to generate the
threaded view (like OE and Forte Agent).


Another reason why replies show up as new thread is the following:
(this is assuming that you keep all the messages of these newsgroups in
your local data-store (aka MessageBase in XanaNews))
There was a name change on this server in the second half of March 2010
which also affected the generated message-ids.

Before the message-ids had the following form:
number@forums.codegear.com

These days the message-ids have the following form:
number@forums.embarcadero.com

If somebody is replying to a message posted before March 21, 2010 (and
which is already in your local MessageBase), the References header
contains a "link" (message-id) to the original post using the new
format while the old post in your local MessageBase contains the
message-id in the old codegear format.


For instance a recent example in this group is the reply of Tim:
{code}
  From: "tim crouse" <>
  Subject: Re: RAD Studio 2007 Dual Monitor Development Setup
  Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 11:48:45 -0700
  Message-ID: <284838@forums.embarcadero.com>
  References: <171676@forums.embarcadero.com>
  Newsgroups: embarcadero.public.delphi.non-technical
{code}

.... which was a reply to his own (old) post made by using the
web-forum:

{code}
  From: "tim crouse" <>
  Subject: RAD Studio 2007 Dual Monitor Development Setup
  Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 10:35:24 -0700
  Message-ID: <171676@forums.codegear.com>
{code}

Note the message-id in the original post (as stored in my local
MessageBase) and the message-id in the References header in his recent
reply.


BTW full thread is here:
https://forums.embarcadero.com/thread.jspa?messageID=170028&tstart=0#170028


To work-around this you would have to re-download all posts of this
server. (If you re-download the old messages posted before roughly
March 21, 2010 they will contain the messages-ids in the new format).

-- 
Pieter

"All I know is that I am not a Marxist."
 -- Karl Marx
0
Pieter
9/16/2010 1:11:24 AM
Brad White <bwhiteDONTINCLUDE@inebraska.com> wrote in message 
<286375@forums.embarcadero.com>
> MesNews has no problems with edited threads.

Neither does mine.

-- 
***Free Your Mind***

Posted with Facade Preview 0.9.7.5484
0
John
9/16/2010 2:25:28 PM
Thanks for everybody's replies.
0
Paul
9/16/2010 2:49:07 PM
on 9/16/2010, John Jacobson supposed :
> Brad White <bwhiteDONTINCLUDE@inebraska.com> wrote in message 
> <286375@forums.embarcadero.com>
>> MesNews has no problems with edited threads.
>
> Neither does mine.

To be fair, yours doesn't have trouble with anything
since no one can use it.

Brad.

-- 

 "Einstein argued that there must be simplified explanations of
 nature, because God is not capricious or arbitrary. No such
 faith comforts the software engineer."
  -- Fred Brooks
0
Brad
9/16/2010 3:31:59 PM
> {quote:title=Brad White wrote:}{quote}
> on 9/16/2010, John Jacobson supposed :
> > Brad White <bwhiteDONTINCLUDE@inebraska.com> wrote in message 
> > <286375@forums.embarcadero.com>
> >> MesNews has no problems with edited threads.
> >
> > Neither does mine.
> 
> To be fair, yours doesn't have trouble with anything
> since no one can use it.

Well, that's really not a fair or true statement, since Jake is somebody, and he uses it himself.  ;)
--
Rick Carter
0
Rick
9/17/2010 5:55:48 AM
Rick Carter presented the following explanation :
>> {quote:title=Brad White wrote:}{quote}
>> on 9/16/2010, John Jacobson supposed :
>>> Brad White <bwhiteDONTINCLUDE@inebraska.com> wrote in message 
>>> <286375@forums.embarcadero.com>
>>>> MesNews has no problems with edited threads.
>>> 
>>> Neither does mine.
>> 
>> To be fair, yours doesn't have trouble with anything
>> since no one can use it.
>
> Well, that's really not a fair or true statement, since Jake is somebody, and 
> he uses it himself.  ;)

I was going to say that this was the ultimate example
of dogfooding your code since *all* the users are also
working on developing the product.

But after further consideration,
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2009/01/the-ultimate-dogfooding-story.html
I think that internal products don't really get any
credit for dogfooding, so I retract that suggestion.

Brad.

-- 

 "Einstein argued that there must be simplified explanations of
 nature, because God is not capricious or arbitrary. No such
 faith comforts the software engineer."
  -- Fred Brooks
0
Brad
9/17/2010 9:25:02 PM
Brad White wrote:

> MesNews has no problems with edited threads.

Are you sure?  I've installed it based on your recommendation, and love 
it, but I'm still getting loads of repeats:

http://thackery.net/pics/mesnewsedits.png

SteveT
0
Steve
9/20/2010 4:17:46 PM
On 20.09.2010 18:17, Steve Thackery wrote:
> Brad White wrote:
>
>> MesNews has no problems with edited threads.
>
> Are you sure?  I've installed it based on your recommendation, and love
> it, but I'm still getting loads of repeats:
>
> http://thackery.net/pics/mesnewsedits.png
>
> SteveT

Thunderbird has no problems with showing those threads as one piece :-)

The Roadmap:Clarification Required Please is one title here, not many as 
shown in your picture.

The only times I see separate messages of a thread is when a poster has 
deleted the first one and exchanged with a new one. Then the dead one is 
separate.
0
Alf
9/20/2010 5:14:41 PM
Alf Christophersen wrote:

> Thunderbird has no problems with showing those threads as one piece :-)

Thanks for that, Alf.

Last time I tried Thunderbird it felt like a crude, overweight and 
old-fashioned attempt at being Outlook.

Maybe it's improved - I'll download it again and give it another go.

Meanwhile, MesNews users: are you seeing the same repeats?  Have I got 
a setting wrong, maybe?

Thanks again,

SteveT
0
Steve
9/20/2010 5:26:06 PM
Steve Thackery laid this down on his screen :
> Alf Christophersen wrote:
>
>> Thunderbird has no problems with showing those threads as one piece :-)
>
> Thanks for that, Alf.
>
> Last time I tried Thunderbird it felt like a crude, overweight and 
> old-fashioned attempt at being Outlook.
>
> Maybe it's improved - I'll download it again and give it another go.
>
> Meanwhile, MesNews users: are you seeing the same repeats?  Have I got 
> a setting wrong, maybe?
>
> Thanks again,
>
> SteveT

No I don't get anything like that for those posts.

My guess was that the relevant settings were under
Messages|Message Display Options
but I tried all those settings and couldn't get
anything similar to your results.

HTH,
Brad.

-- 

 "Einstein argued that there must be simplified explanations of
 nature, because God is not capricious or arbitrary. No such
 faith comforts the software engineer."
  -- Fred Brooks
0
Brad
9/20/2010 10:25:11 PM
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