How do You Write a Web App that Looks like Your Delphi App

Hi

I have written an application that I would like to port into a web application. What is the best language to choose.

For example php, Ruby on Rails or some other language..

Thank you.
0
Peter
3/17/2010 12:36:47 AM
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> {quote:title=Peter Skinner wrote:}{quote}
> Hi
> 
> I have written an application that I would like to port into a web application. What is the best language to choose.
> 
> For example php, Ruby on Rails or some other language..
> 
> Thank you.

Here's something you can try with very little investment of time, which is to auto-convert your existing app's main form (.dfm) to ExtPascal code, then compile and run it with a local server and see what you think. The running app will just be the user interface, to which you add code, but it might get you started on Web programming.

Here's some more info. Don't let the title fool you as ExtPascal apps can be compiled to run on Windows and with your current version of Delphi.

http://web.me.com/macpgmr/ObjP/MacXPlatform_Part7.html

Thanks.

-Phil
0
Phil
3/17/2010 1:13:46 AM
On 2010-03-17 01:36, Peter Skinner wrote:
> I have written an application that I would like to port into a web
> application. What is the best language to choose.

If by "best" you mean proximity to the original and low development and 
maintenance costs (presuming you are going to maintain both the desktop 
app and the web app in parallel), the answer is obviously Delphi itself. 
Have you investigated the web technologies that exist for Delphi?
0
Utf
3/17/2010 1:24:24 AM
Peter Skinner <> wrote in news:224587@forums.codegear.com:

> Hi
> 
> I have written an application that I would like to port into a web
> application. What is the best language to choose. 
> 
> For example php, Ruby on Rails or some other language..
> 
> Thank you.

If your original application was written in Delphi, then check out VCL for 
the Web (IntraWeb) before you do anything else.

Regards,

Larry Drews
TheSoftwareRonin
0
Larry
3/17/2010 2:07:07 AM
Hi Peter,

> I have written an application that I would like to port into a web application. What is the best language to choose.

Delphi of course, with VCL for the Web (aka IntraWeb). You can re-use al 
your data modules and business rules, and can redesign your GUI using 
IntraWeb controls in a very similar way you build your Win32 GUI in 
Delphi...

> For example php, Ruby on Rails or some other language..

Why learn another language when you can do it with Delphi itself?

> Thank you.

Groetjes,
           Bob Swart

-- 
Bob Swart Training & Consultancy (eBob42.com) Forever Loyal to Delphi
Chairman Delphi Development Network (DDN) powered by SDN - www.sdn.nl
Embarcadero Technology Partner - Delphi & RAD Studio Reseller BeNeLux
http://twitter.com/eBob42 LinkedIn: http://nl.linkedin.com/in/drbob42
Delphi Win32 & .NET books on Lulu.com: http://stores.lulu.com/drbob42
Personal courseware + e-mail support http://www.ebob42.com/courseware
Blog: http://www.drbob42.com/blog - RSS: http://eBob42.com/weblog.xml
0
Bob
3/17/2010 6:46:41 AM
Thx Everyone.. I never knew Delphi was that versatile.
0
Peter
3/17/2010 8:25:04 AM
"Peter Skinner" wrote in message news:224587@forums.codegear.com...
> I have written an application that I would like to port into a web 
> application. What is the best language to choose.
>
> For example php, Ruby on Rails or some other language..

If you want it to 'look' like a desktop app, the best bet is ExtJS, a 
javascript library.  That can be used to create web apps that have the look 
and feel of a desktop app.  But... if you are not experienced in web 
development, there will be a very big learning curve because you'll be 
learning both javascript, html, and whatever backend language you select, 
all at once.

PHP is probably the easiest server side language to learn.
0
Joe
3/17/2010 6:51:24 PM
"Phil Hess" wrote in message news:224600@forums.codegear.com...
> Here's something you can try with very little investment of time, which is 
> to auto-convert your existing app's main form (.dfm) to ExtPascal code, 
> then compile and run it with a local server and see what you think. The

It looks like ExtJS will also soon have their own IDE and visual designer. 
That should be something to behold when its available.
0
Joe
3/17/2010 6:53:05 PM
> {quote:title=Joe Demartino wrote:}{quote}
> "Peter Skinner" wrote in message news:224587@forums.codegear.com...
> > I have written an application that I would like to port into a web 
> > application. What is the best language to choose.
> >
> > For example php, Ruby on Rails or some other language..
> 
> If you want it to 'look' like a desktop app, the best bet is ExtJS, a 
> javascript library.  That can be used to create web apps that have the look 
> and feel of a desktop app.  But... if you are not experienced in web 
> development, there will be a very big learning curve because you'll be 
> learning both javascript, html, and whatever backend language you select, 
> all at once.
> 
> PHP is probably the easiest server side language to learn.

That's why ExtPascal is so interesting: it allows you to use Ext JS pretty much without much JavaScript programming. When you set a property for an ExtPascal object, it actually generates to the browser the JS that you would otherwise have to write yourself. Pretty neat.

PHP certainly is powerful since it's a dynamic language, but for whatever reason I ended up writing a lot of JS when I was working with Delphi for PHP, despite the great VCL for PHP class library. With ExtPascal I don't find myself writing so much JS.

Farshad has demonstrated how you can use ExtPascal and Ext JS to create a desktop-looking Web app:

http://prime.fmsoft.net/out/dbdemo.dll

Check out how nicely the main window can be resized, either by dragging the Ext JS window frame or clicking the window maximize button, or by resizing the browser window.

Thanks.

-Phil
0
Phil
3/17/2010 7:15:23 PM
"Phil Hess" wrote in message news:224929@forums.codegear.com...
> That's why ExtPascal is so interesting: it allows you to use Ext JS pretty 
> much without much JavaScript >programming. When you set a property for an 
> ExtPascal object, it actually generates to the browser the JS >that you 
> would otherwise have to write yourself. Pretty neat.

Are there any complete, serious web applications written using it?  Can you 
provide links?

I think its a tremendously bad idea to recommend a system like that to 
someone who isnt familar with web programming.  They then have to not only 
understand what's going on in terms of what the javascript is doing, and how 
the flow of web applications work, but also then deal with the limits of an 
unfinished, probably poorly documented toolkit.  Much better to learn and 
understand JS and HTML first, before attempting to learn something like 
extDelphi.  Dont get me wrong, I think its a neat project... just not sure 
its the best choice for someone who isnt already familiar with ExtJS.

> PHP certainly is powerful since it's a dynamic language, but for whatever 
> reason I ended up writing a lot of JS
>when I was working with Delphi for PHP, despite the great VCL for PHP class 
>library. With ExtPascal I don't >find myself writing so much JS.

PHP <> Delphi for PHP
0
Joe
3/17/2010 7:30:24 PM
> {quote:title=Joe Demartino wrote:}{quote}
> I think its a tremendously bad idea to recommend a system like that to 
> someone who isnt familar with web programming.  They then have to not only 
> understand what's going on in terms of what the javascript is doing, and how 
> the flow of web applications work, but also then deal with the limits of an 
> unfinished, probably poorly documented toolkit.  Much better to learn and 
> understand JS and HTML first, before attempting to learn something like 
> extDelphi.  Dont get me wrong, I think its a neat project... just not sure 
> its the best choice for someone who isnt already familiar with ExtJS.
> 

Joe, you're off base there. Re-read my first post. I simply said spend a few minutes converting a .dfm and see if that looks like a place to get started. The generated code is eminently readable and looks a lot like a Delphi app. 

Thanks.

-Phil
0
Phil
3/17/2010 7:38:36 PM
"Phil Hess" wrote in message news:224948@forums.codegear.com...
> Joe, you're off base there. Re-read my first post. I simply said spend a 
> few minutes converting a .dfm and see >if that looks like a place to get 
> started. The generated code is eminently readable and looks a lot like a 
> Delphi >app.

And I simply said its a bad idea to promote such a project to someone who's 
obviously a 'newbie' web developer.  I dont doubt your extDelphi is a great 
project - I just doubt the wisdom confusing someone new to web development 
by throwing that into the mix.
0
Joe
3/17/2010 8:28:50 PM
> {quote:title=Joe Demartino wrote:}{quote}
> "Phil Hess" wrote in message news:224948@forums.codegear.com...
> > Joe, you're off base there. Re-read my first post. I simply said spend a 
> > few minutes converting a .dfm and see >if that looks like a place to get 
> > started. The generated code is eminently readable and looks a lot like a 
> > Delphi >app.
> 
> And I simply said its a bad idea to promote such a project to someone who's 
> obviously a 'newbie' web developer.  I dont doubt your extDelphi is a great 
> project - I just doubt the wisdom confusing someone new to web development 
> by throwing that into the mix.

"Into the mix" in this case actually makes Ext JS more approachable with ExtPascal than without it.

Rather than asking what language to use for a Web app, I would suggest a different approach:

(1) What JS framework will you use?
(2) How does your choice of server language provide access to that framework.

Example: Delphi for PHP.
Answers to these questions:
(1) qooxdoo
(2) VCL for PHP, which has VCL class and property names that are not the same as qooxdoo JS class and property names. This means that whenever you drop down to or try to think in JS terms, you have to think about the qooxdoo properties, not the VCL properties. Very confusing.

Example: ExtPascal
(1) Ext JS
(2) ExtPascal wrapper classes, where Ext JS class and property names are used for the Pascal class and property names. Much better.

Choice of language itself is often relevant only if you have a non-UI codebase in a particular language that you want to use in your Web app. For a Delphi developer, that's often the case. ExtPascal allows a lot of that code to be used. Delphi for PHP does not. I tried putting creating PHP extensions with Pascal and while that wasn't too bad, the stateless way in which they're called makes them pretty useless. ExtPascal produces "stateful, keep-alive" apps (in Wanderlan's phrase).

Thanks.

-Phil
0
Phil
3/17/2010 9:08:56 PM
"Phil Hess" wrote in message news:224985@forums.codegear.com...
> "Into the mix" in this case actually makes Ext JS more approachable with 
> ExtPascal than without it.

So, do you have any links to any completed, serious applications written 
with it?
0
Joe
3/17/2010 9:17:20 PM
> {quote:title=Henrick Hellström wrote:}{quote}
> On 2010-03-17 01:36, Peter Skinner wrote:
> > I have written an application that I would like to port into a web
> > application. What is the best language to choose.
> 
> If by "best" you mean proximity to the original and low development and 
> maintenance costs (presuming you are going to maintain both the desktop 
> app and the web app in parallel), the answer is obviously Delphi itself. 
> Have you investigated the web technologies that exist for Delphi?

No ..this is my very first investigation.. Looks positive though..
0
Peter
3/19/2010 4:31:08 AM
On 2010-03-19 05:31, Peter Skinner wrote:
>> {quote:title=Henrick Hellström wrote:}{quote}
>> If by "best" you mean proximity to the original and low development and
>> maintenance costs (presuming you are going to maintain both the desktop
>> app and the web app in parallel), the answer is obviously Delphi itself.
>> Have you investigated the web technologies that exist for Delphi?
>
> No ..this is my very first investigation.. Looks positive though..

OK, in such case the next question ought to be what the rest of your 
requirements are? It might be worth pointing out that IntraWeb/VCL for 
the Web, according to the lead developers, isn't designed to be used for 
web sites, but of course works great for web applications that only take 
limited load.

For instance, are you going to run the server application on your own 
possibly co-located server, or does it have to work on budget web hosts 
that only support common technologies? Do you have full control over the 
maximum number of hits the web app will get, or is it required to at 
least not crash under heavy load? Will it have lots of interactive UI 
elements that require client side scripting, or will the pages only 
update after the user triggered a GET or POST? Etc.
0
Utf
3/19/2010 10:42:57 AM
Henrick Hellström wrote:
> OK, in such case the next question ought to be what the rest of your 
> requirements are? It might be worth pointing out that IntraWeb/VCL for 
> the Web, according to the lead developers, isn't designed to be used for 
> web sites, but of course works great for web applications that only take 
> limited load.

Limited load? You can design your sessions to be as light-weight as you 
wish, or you can make them memory intensive if need be. Once you know 
how much memory an average session will be -- you can then figure out 
how much memory to put in your server, based on its intended load. And 
you can use Octagate to add as many servers you need. It's very easy.

> For instance, are you going to run the server application on your own 
> possibly co-located server, or does it have to work on budget web hosts 
> that only support common technologies? 

Deployment has more options than most web frameworks. But you are right 
-- you do need to consider this up front, because the way you intend to 
deploy, may not be available for an IntraWeb app.

But one thing is sure -- IntraWeb apps perform exceedingly well. A large 
part of it has to be the fact that it's compiled.

Loren sZendre
0
Loren
3/19/2010 4:38:07 PM
On 2010-03-19 17:38, Loren Szendre wrote:
> Limited load? You can design your sessions to be as light-weight as you
> wish, or you can make them memory intensive if need be. Once you know
> how much memory an average session will be -- you can then figure out
> how much memory to put in your server, based on its intended load. And
> you can use Octagate to add as many servers you need. It's very easy.

And how does that contradict what I wrote? ;)
0
Utf
3/19/2010 6:53:24 PM
Henrick Hellström wrote:
> On 2010-03-19 17:38, Loren Szendre wrote:
>> Limited load? You can design your sessions to be as light-weight as you
>> wish, or you can make them memory intensive if need be. Once you know
>> how much memory an average session will be -- you can then figure out
>> how much memory to put in your server, based on its intended load. And
>> you can use Octagate to add as many servers you need. It's very easy.
> 
> And how does that contradict what I wrote? ;)

Well, you stated that IntraWeb could only handle limited loads. In any 
framework, when you're dealing with large amounts of dynamic data -- you 
have to be careful you handle it, or you could end up with very slow 
responses. In that regard, IntraWeb is no different than other 
frameworks. And if you want to get technical :), all applications can 
only handle limited, or finite, loads.

So, if you say it handles limited loads -- relative to what? For 
instance, in ASP.Net, the server recreates each page for every 
post-back. IntraWeb keeps a copy in memory. This difference results in 
more memory usage with IntraWeb, but less work for the server -- and in 
many cases, less work for the developer. So maybe you could say that 
IntraWeb results in a limited load on the developer ;)

Loren sZendre
0
Loren
3/19/2010 7:23:06 PM
On 2010-03-19 20:23, Loren Szendre wrote:
> So, if you say it handles limited loads -- relative to what? For
> instance, in ASP.Net, the server recreates each page for every
> post-back. IntraWeb keeps a copy in memory. This difference results in
> more memory usage with IntraWeb, but less work for the server -- and in
> many cases, less work for the developer. So maybe you could say that
> IntraWeb results in a limited load on the developer ;)

I am only referring to Chad Z. Hower's own words - Intraweb is for 
applications, and not websites:

http://groups.google.com/group/borland.public.delphi.non-technical/browse_thread/thread/41ecbb134ec7059/20a5a7b54ca591ae?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=atozed+intraweb+chad+z+hower+website#20a5a7b54ca591ae
0
Utf
3/19/2010 9:49:13 PM
Henrick Hellström wrote:
> On 2010-03-19 20:23, Loren Szendre wrote:
>> So, if you say it handles limited loads -- relative to what? For
>> instance, in ASP.Net, the server recreates each page for every
>> post-back. IntraWeb keeps a copy in memory. This difference results in
>> more memory usage with IntraWeb, but less work for the server -- and in
>> many cases, less work for the developer. So maybe you could say that
>> IntraWeb results in a limited load on the developer ;)
> 
> I am only referring to Chad Z. Hower's own words - Intraweb is for 
> applications, and not websites:
> 
> http://groups.google.com/group/borland.public.delphi.non-technical/browse_thread/thread/41ecbb134ec7059/20a5a7b54ca591ae?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=atozed+intraweb+chad+z+hower+website#20a5a7b54ca591ae

That is very true. It's not that IntraWeb cannot do a website -- it's 
just overkill -- you get the overhead of sessions, and you require the 
programmer to get involved for a small change.

Loren sZendre
0
Loren
3/22/2010 8:23:28 PM
> {quote:title=Peter Skinner wrote:}{quote}
> Hi
> 
> I have written an application that I would like to port into a web application. What is the best language to choose.
> 
> For example php, Ruby on Rails or some other language..
> 
> Thank you.

Take a look at http://www.morfik.com/

It's basically Delphi (and object pascal) for html 5 (javascript etc.)
0
Tim
3/24/2010 1:05:43 PM
> {quote:title=Tim A. wrote:}{quote}
> > {quote:title=Peter Skinner wrote:}{quote}
> > Hi
> > 
> > I have written an application that I would like to port into a web application. What is the best language to choose.
> > 
> > For example php, Ruby on Rails or some other language..
> > 
> > Thank you.
> 
> Take a look at http://www.morfik.com/
> 
> It's basically Delphi (and object pascal) for html 5 (javascript etc.)

Yes Morfik looks great. At least to start with.. Imagine if Delphi could do that.. 

I am also looking at  openlaszlo   http://www.openlaszlo.org/

thx

Edited by: Peter Skinner on Mar 25, 2010 8:44 PM
0
Peter
3/26/2010 3:44:35 AM
> {quote:title=Peter Skinner wrote:}{quote}
> > {quote:title=Tim A. wrote:}{quote}
> > > {quote:title=Peter Skinner wrote:}{quote}
> > > Hi
> > > 
> > > I have written an application that I would like to port into a web application. What is the best language to choose.
> > > 
> > > For example php, Ruby on Rails or some other language..
> > > 
> > > Thank you.
> > 
> > Take a look at http://www.morfik.com/
> > 
> > It's basically Delphi (and object pascal) for html 5 (javascript etc.)
> 
> Yes Morfik looks great. At least to start with.. Imagine if Delphi could do that.. 
> 
> I am also looking at  openlaszlo   http://www.openlaszlo.org/
> 
> thx
> 
> Edited by: Peter Skinner on Mar 25, 2010 8:44 PM

Embarcadero should invite the Morfik guys up for a dance. Their approach is the way web dev should be done - the real delphi way.
0
Tim
3/26/2010 10:36:11 AM
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Audi is developing an iPad-sized device that will pack all the necessary computing power for a self-driving car

US approves China company's acquisition of Delphi biz
The Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States has formally approved the acquisition of Delphi's global production of braking systems ...

Verizon And Delphi Officially Launch Vehicle Diagnostics Service - $250 For The Module, $5 A Month On ...
If you're a car nut, a paranoid parent, or a small business owner looking to do a little, uh, company vehicle economy analysis, Verizon's teamed ...

Watch out Google: Delphi gives Ars a ride in its self-driving car
The automotive components maker gave Ars a preview ride around the neighborhood. MOUNTAIN VIEW, CA—On Thursday morning I met with Delphi at its ...

The skinny on Delphi's autonomous road trip across the United States
Filed under: Green , Videos , Autonomous Last week, Delphi's autonomous car became the first to complete a coast-to-coast trip across the United ...

Delphi partners with WiTricity on automated wireless charging system
One could easily argue that parking between the white lines at any local hangout presents a challenge for some inexperienced drivers. So, why ...

Resources last updated: 11/25/2015 1:31:58 PM