Delphi XE Update 1 is now available

Update 1 for Delphi XE and C++Builder XE is now available.

It's available first through the auto update system. It should be available from the registered users download pages within two hours and available in the full product installers and ISOs for purchasers, customers and trial downloaders next week.

For more information, see the following.

Update 1 or Delphi XE and C++Builder XE Readme
http://edn.embarcadero.com/article/40881

Update 1 for Delphi XE and C++Builder XE Fix List
http://edn.embarcadero.com/article/40984

Thanks,

Tim

--
Tim Del Chiaro
Product Marketing - RAD Studio, Delphi, C++Builder, Delphi Prism and RadPHP
http://delphi-insider.blogspot.com
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11/12/2010 10:41:36 PM
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Hi Tim,

> first through the auto update system. It should be available from the registered users download pages within two hours and available in the full product installers and ISOs for purchasers, customers and trial downloaders next week.

Great news, thanks!

Groetjes,
           Bob Swart

-- 
Bob Swart Training & Consultancy (eBob42.com) Forever Loyal to Delphi
Chairman Delphi Development Network (DDN) powered by SDN - www.sdn.nl
Embarcadero Technology Partner - Delphi & RAD Studio Reseller BeNeLux
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Blog: http://www.drbob42.com/blog - RSS: http://eBob42.com/weblog.xml
0
Bob
11/12/2010 10:58:02 PM
> {quote:title=Tim DelChiaro wrote:}{quote}
> Update 1 for Delphi XE and C++Builder XE is now available.
> 

Great, thanks!

Dalija Prasnikar
0
Dalija
11/12/2010 11:03:47 PM
Tim,

| It's available first through the auto update system. It should be
| available from the registered users download pages within two hours
| and available in the full product installers and ISOs for purchasers,
| customers and trial downloaders next week.
| 
| For more information, see the following.
| 
| Update 1 or Delphi XE and C++Builder XE Readme
| http://edn.embarcadero.com/article/40881

I got a "not authorized" error when I tried to D/L Update#1.

Do I understand correctly that I will be able to D/L a full Update 1
level product install ISO next week?  If so, I'll wait until next week
and try to do that as I won't be needing to get to UD#1 until then
anyway.


-- 

   Q

11/12/2010 16:01:18

XanaNews Version 1.19.1.278  [Q'sBrokenToolBar]
0
Quentin
11/13/2010 12:04:57 AM
<Tim DelChiaro> wrote
 in message news:305142@forums.embarcadero.com...
> Update 1 for Delphi XE and C++Builder XE is now available.

Is the deveoper edition of Interbase included in RADStudio XE being updated 
to the Interbase XE release? or is it still the prior release?

bobD
0
Robert
11/13/2010 1:17:54 AM
On 12/11/2010 6:41 PM, Tim DelChiaro wrote:
> Update 1 for Delphi XE and C++Builder XE is now available.
>
> It's available first through the auto update system. It should be available from the registered users download pages within two hours and available in the full product installers and ISOs for purchasers, customers and trial downloaders next week.
>
> For more information, see the following.
>
> Update 1 or Delphi XE and C++Builder XE Readme
> http://edn.embarcadero.com/article/40881
>
> Update 1 for Delphi XE and C++Builder XE Fix List
> http://edn.embarcadero.com/article/40984
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim
>
> --
> Tim Del Chiaro
> Product Marketing - RAD Studio, Delphi, C++Builder, Delphi Prism and RadPHP
> http://delphi-insider.blogspot.com

I installed without problems but now get an error when starting XE 
regarding entry point to teechart's bpl and also an error with TMS 
complaining about Teechart not being found.

I see that DDevextensions are also broken by this 'update'

Peter
0
Peter
11/13/2010 1:27:52 AM
Peter,

| I see that DDevextensions are also broken by this 'update'

I just read a post by Andreas where he said it needs to be uninstalled
for XE UD1.  And that there won't be a new plug-in for XE UD1.


-- 

   Q

11/12/2010 19:56:10

XanaNews Version 1.19.1.278  [Q'sBrokenToolBar]
0
Quentin
11/13/2010 3:57:27 AM
On 11/12/2010 4:41 PM, Tim DelChiaro wrote:
> Update 1 for Delphi XE and C++Builder XE is now available.

Trying to install Update 1 results in this error for me (Windows 7 64-bit):

---------------------------
Embarcadero RAD Studio XE
---------------------------
Error

The Installer has insufficient privileges to modify this file: 
C:\PROGRA~3\{7DE92~1\etm\9E21F25E\CEB89B1B\etm.exe.
---------------------------
Abort   Retry   Ignore
---------------------------

Note that I didn't install the etm option when I originally installed XE, so 
I assume it shouldn't be trying to update it. 
C:\ProgramData\{7DE921C9-42C8-4DA3-8A44-043C3349FD1D}\etm\ doesn't exist.

After that error, others appear:
---------------------------
Embarcadero RAD Studio XE
---------------------------
Error

Error reading from file: C:\PROGRA~3\{7DE92~1\etm\9E21F25E\CEB89B1B\etm.jdbg. 
   Verify that the file exists and that you can access it.
---------------------------
Abort   Retry   Ignore
---------------------------

Eventually, the installer just fails:
---------------------------
Embarcadero RAD Studio XE
---------------------------
Error

The installer has encountered an unexpected error installing this package. 
This may indicate a problem with this package. The error code is 2318.
---------------------------
OK
---------------------------

Both the auto-update process and the manually downloaded .zip updater fail in 
the same way.  Is anyone else seeing this?

Erik
0
Erik
11/13/2010 5:16:04 AM
There is no English version. Twice the German.

"Tim DelChiaro" schreef in bericht news:305142@forums.embarcadero.com...
> Update 1 for Delphi XE and C++Builder XE is now available.
>
> It's available first through the auto update system. It should be 
> available from the registered users download pages within two hours and 
> available in the full product installers and ISOs for purchasers, 
> customers and trial downloaders next week.
>
> For more information, see the following.
>
> Update 1 or Delphi XE and C++Builder XE Readme
> http://edn.embarcadero.com/article/40881
>
> Update 1 for Delphi XE and C++Builder XE Fix List
> http://edn.embarcadero.com/article/40984
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim
>
> --
> Tim Del Chiaro
> Product Marketing - RAD Studio, Delphi, C++Builder, Delphi Prism and 
> RadPHP
> http://delphi-insider.blogspot.com
0
Jennifer
11/13/2010 8:31:51 AM
Automatic download doesn't work either.

"Tim DelChiaro" schreef in bericht news:305142@forums.embarcadero.com...
> Update 1 for Delphi XE and C++Builder XE is now available.
>
> It's available first through the auto update system. It should be 
> available from the registered users download pages within two hours and 
> available in the full product installers and ISOs for purchasers, 
> customers and trial downloaders next week.
>
> For more information, see the following.
>
> Update 1 or Delphi XE and C++Builder XE Readme
> http://edn.embarcadero.com/article/40881
>
> Update 1 for Delphi XE and C++Builder XE Fix List
> http://edn.embarcadero.com/article/40984
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim
>
> --
> Tim Del Chiaro
> Product Marketing - RAD Studio, Delphi, C++Builder, Delphi Prism and 
> RadPHP
> http://delphi-insider.blogspot.com
0
Jennifer
11/13/2010 8:32:28 AM
"Quentin Correll" <qcorrell@pacNObell.net> wrote in message 
news:305192@forums.embarcadero.com...
> Peter,
>
> | I see that DDevextensions are also broken by this 'update'
>
> I just read a post by Andreas where he said it needs to be uninstalled
> for XE UD1.  And that there won't be a new plug-in for XE UD1.
>
>

Too bad to hear that DDevextensions is broken with UD1. The component 
selector is very handy.
0
Farshad
11/13/2010 8:37:52 AM
HI,

I agree with Farshad.

Without support for DDevExtensions I not apply the update 1

This is very bad!!

Claudio

"Farshad Mohajeri"  wrote in message news:305213@forums.embarcadero.com... 

"Quentin Correll" <qcorrell@pacNObell.net> wrote in message 
news:305192@forums.embarcadero.com...
> Peter,
>
> | I see that DDevextensions are also broken by this 'update'
>
> I just read a post by Andreas where he said it needs to be uninstalled
> for XE UD1.  And that there won't be a new plug-in for XE UD1.
>
>

Too bad to hear that DDevextensions is broken with UD1. The component 
selector is very handy.
0
Claudio
11/13/2010 9:12:55 AM
> {quote:title=Erik Berry wrote:}{quote}
> Trying to install Update 1 results in this error for me (Windows 7 64-bit):
> 
> ---------------------------
> Embarcadero RAD Studio XE
> ---------------------------
> Error
> 
> Is anyone else seeing this?
Yep. Same errors, update won't install.

Giel
0
Giel
11/13/2010 9:55:52 AM
Quentin Correll wrote:

> And that there won't be a new plug-in for XE UD1.

I'm not so sure about that. It was 2 o'clock in the morning when I
wrote my blog post and I was really pissed because I wanted to go to
bed instead of hunting down why I was treated like a criminal.


-- 
Andreas Hausladen
0
Andreas
11/13/2010 10:32:44 AM
> {quote:title=Tim DelChiaro wrote:}{quote}
> Update 1 for Delphi XE and C++Builder XE is now available.
> 

I am not using DDevExtensions, so I have decided to take a chance :)

Downloaded through Registered Users Downloads, installed
without problems on Vista 32. So far so good. Still have to 
see how it behaves after few hours of work.

BTW, compiler speed is excellent. 

Dalija Prasnikar
0
Dalija
11/13/2010 10:34:11 AM
Am 13.11.2010 09:31, schrieb Jennifer-Ashley Kuiper:
> There is no English version. Twice the German.
> 

This is means as an incetive to learn the beautiful German language ;-)

Greetings from Germany

Markus
0
Markus
11/13/2010 11:17:37 AM
There is no such thing as the beautiful German language. It is regarded a 
throat disease. :-)) Now, the Dutch language however...

"Markus Humm" <markus.humm@freenet.de> schreef in bericht 
news:305228@forums.embarcadero.com...
> Am 13.11.2010 09:31, schrieb Jennifer-Ashley Kuiper:
>> There is no English version. Twice the German.
>>
>
> This is means as an incetive to learn the beautiful German language ;-)
>
> Greetings from Germany
>
> Markus
0
Jennifer
11/13/2010 11:53:02 AM
No problem with it on WinXP SP3 32 bit. BTW. I haven't installed DevExt.
0
Ralf
11/13/2010 12:04:17 PM
On 13.11.2010 09:31, Jennifer-Ashley Kuiper wrote:
> There is no English version. Twice the German.

What's wrong? The majority of Delphi users live in Germany.
0
Ralf
11/13/2010 12:09:54 PM
> {quote:title=Dalija Prasnikar wrote:}{quote}
> > {quote:title=Tim DelChiaro wrote:}{quote}
> > Update 1 for Delphi XE and C++Builder XE is now available.
> > 
> 
> I am not using DDevExtensions, so I have decided to take a chance :)
> 
> Downloaded through Registered Users Downloads, installed
> without problems on Vista 32. So far so good. Still have to 
> see how it behaves after few hours of work.
> 

Grrrr.... Applying Help Update 1 has deleted all Windows SDK articles from Help.
I had to reinstall original XE Help to have them back. QC 89637

Dalija Prasnikar
0
Dalija
11/13/2010 12:24:19 PM
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

> Grrrr.... Applying Help Update 1 has deleted all Windows SDK articles
> from Help.  I had to reinstall original XE Help to have them back. QC
> 89637

I just found that out myself.

+1 for QC 89637


-- 
Andreas Hausladen
0
Andreas
11/13/2010 12:28:51 PM
On 13-11-2010 06:16, Erik Berry wrote:
> Both the auto-update process and the manually downloaded .zip updater fail in
> the same way.  Is anyone else seeing this?

I got the exact same errors. My solution was to create two empty files 
with the names it was looking for. That allowed the upgrade to complete.
But I hope Embarcadero will fix the problem in the installation.

Ivan Johansen
0
Ivan
11/13/2010 1:43:49 PM
> {quote:title=Ivan Johansen wrote:}{quote}
> I got the exact same errors. My solution was to create two empty files 
> with the names it was looking for. That allowed the upgrade to complete.
> But I hope Embarcadero will fix the problem in the installation.
Good idea. I managed to complete the install using your trick as well. 

The auto updated didn't find any new updates, even though the previous attempt to install it failed. I downloaded the updater and created the two files. I got one more error message:
Error applying patch to file C:\Config.Msi\PT5876.tmp.  It has probably been updated by other means, and can no longer be modified by this patch.  For more information contact your patch vendor.  

I ignored it and voila.....


Giel
0
Giel
11/13/2010 2:30:26 PM
On 12/11/2010 6:41 PM, Tim DelChiaro wrote:
> Update 1 for Delphi XE and C++Builder XE is now available.
>
> It's available first through the auto update system. It should be available from the registered users download pages within two hours and available in the full product installers and ISOs for purchasers, customers and trial downloaders next week.
>
> For more information, see the following.
>
> Update 1 or Delphi XE and C++Builder XE Readme
> http://edn.embarcadero.com/article/40881
>
> Update 1 for Delphi XE and C++Builder XE Fix List
> http://edn.embarcadero.com/article/40984
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim
>
> --
> Tim Del Chiaro
> Product Marketing - RAD Studio, Delphi, C++Builder, Delphi Prism and RadPHP
> http://delphi-insider.blogspot.com

What's the new version/build number shown in about help after a 
successful update?

Peter
0
Peter
11/13/2010 2:38:58 PM
> What's the new version/build number shown in about help after a
> successful update?
>
> Peter

15.0.3953.35171
0
Ralf
11/13/2010 2:40:34 PM
On 13.11.2010 11:32, Andreas Hausladen wrote:
> Quentin Correll wrote:
>
>> And that there won't be a new plug-in for XE UD1.
>
> I'm not so sure about that. It was 2 o'clock in the morning when I
> wrote my blog post and I was really pissed because I wanted to go to
> bed instead of hunting down why I was treated like a criminal.
>
>

I hope there exists a solution to the problem so that plug-in again will 
work as expected without annoying messages about buying this and that 
and other things.

I don't hope critics uttered here on bugfixing is not the reason for 
inteted block of DDevExtension in XE Upd1 but is a unforeseen 
side-effect of something else.
0
Alf
11/13/2010 2:44:44 PM
On 13.11.2010 12:53, Jennifer-Ashley Kuiper wrote:
> There is no such thing as the beautiful German language. It is regarded a
> throat disease. :-)) Now, the Dutch language however...

I thought that was the description of another language some north of 
Germany and south of Norway :-D
0
Alf
11/13/2010 2:45:56 PM
Am 13.11.2010 12:53, schrieb Jennifer-Ashley Kuiper:
> There is no such thing as the beautiful German language. It is regarded a 
> throat disease. :-)) Now, the Dutch language however...
> 

Ts ts! (comming from somebody developing a international computer
software which is (among others) also being translated to Dutch)

Greetings

Markus
0
Markus
11/13/2010 3:30:44 PM
On 11/12/2010 8:27 PM, Peter Dawes <dot wrote:
> On 12/11/2010 6:41 PM, Tim DelChiaro wrote:
>> Update 1 for Delphi XE and C++Builder XE is now available.
>>
>> It's available first through the auto update system. It should be available from the registered users download pages within two hours and available in the full product installers and ISOs for purchasers, customers and trial downloaders next week.
>>
>> For more information, see the following.
>>
>> Update 1 or Delphi XE and C++Builder XE Readme
>> http://edn.embarcadero.com/article/40881
>>
>> Update 1 for Delphi XE and C++Builder XE Fix List
>> http://edn.embarcadero.com/article/40984
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> --
>> Tim Del Chiaro
>> Product Marketing - RAD Studio, Delphi, C++Builder, Delphi Prism and RadPHP
>> http://delphi-insider.blogspot.com
>
> I installed without problems but now get an error when starting XE
> regarding entry point to teechart's bpl and also an error with TMS
> complaining about Teechart not being found.
>
> I see that DDevextensions are also broken by this 'update'
>
> Peter

It looked like that EMB spent more resources on the anti-piracy than on 
developing new features.

William
0
William
11/13/2010 3:55:57 PM
"Peter Dawes"  
>I installed without problems but now get an error when starting XE 
>regarding entry point to teechart's bpl and also an error with TMS 
>complaining about Teechart not being found.

I got the same error message. Recompiling FastReport fixed it.

//Trond
0
Trond
11/13/2010 4:18:37 PM
That would be Denmark ;-)

"Alf Christophersen" <alf.christophersen@medisin.uio.no> schreef in bericht 
news:305254@forums.embarcadero.com...
> On 13.11.2010 12:53, Jennifer-Ashley Kuiper wrote:
>> There is no such thing as the beautiful German language. It is regarded a
>> throat disease. :-)) Now, the Dutch language however...
>
> I thought that was the description of another language some north of
> Germany and south of Norway :-D
0
Jennifer
11/13/2010 4:31:17 PM
Hmm... that is a good thing, right?

"Markus Humm" <markus.humm@freenet.de> schreef in bericht 
news:305259@forums.embarcadero.com...
> Am 13.11.2010 12:53, schrieb Jennifer-Ashley Kuiper:
>> There is no such thing as the beautiful German language. It is regarded a
>> throat disease. :-)) Now, the Dutch language however...
>>
>
> Ts ts! (comming from somebody developing a international computer
> software which is (among others) also being translated to Dutch)
>
> Greetings
>
> Markus
0
Jennifer
11/13/2010 4:31:49 PM
> There is no such thing as the beautiful German language. It is regarded a
> throat disease. :-))
That's what all the jealous people say after too much worshipping of the 
beautiful :-p
0
Utf
11/13/2010 5:10:08 PM
Am 13.11.2010 17:31, schrieb Jennifer-Ashley Kuiper:
> Hmm... that is a good thing, right?

For Dutch people who do not want to learn German yes.
For the translator: propably no as it means more work for him
and his colleagues as he's normally not a translator.

Greetings

Markus
0
Markus
11/13/2010 5:54:34 PM
Andreas,

| I'm not so sure about that. It was 2 o'clock in the morning when I
| wrote my blog post and I was really pissed because I wanted to go to
| bed instead of hunting down why I was treated like a criminal.

I fully understand.

I do SERIOUSLY hope that you and Embarcadero can resolve the issue!

It does surprise me a bit that someone in the development group hadn't
tested UD1 with known popular plug-ins. <sigh>


-- 

   Q

11/13/2010 10:07:55

XanaNews Version 1.19.1.278  [Q'sBrokenToolBar]
0
Quentin
11/13/2010 6:10:21 PM
Dalija,

| I had to reinstall original XE Help to have them back. QC 89637

+10 on QC 89637!

-- 

   Q

11/13/2010 10:17:28

XanaNews Version 1.19.1.278  [Q'sBrokenToolBar]
0
Quentin
11/13/2010 6:17:51 PM
Quentin Correll wrote:

> It does surprise me a bit that someone in the development group hadn't
> tested UD1 with known popular plug-ins. <sigh>

Maybe they use a development build that doesn't have the copy
protection. At least I would do it. Why bother with a copy protection
if you are the vendor of the application.

-- 
Andreas Hausladen
0
Andreas
11/13/2010 6:20:13 PM
<Dalija Prasnikar> wrote in message news:305238@forums.embarcadero.com...
> Grrrr.... Applying Help Update 1 has deleted all Windows SDK articles from 
> Help.
> I had to reinstall original XE Help to have them back. QC 89637
>

The update completely killed my help.
0
Farshad
11/13/2010 6:25:16 PM
> {quote:title=Andreas Hausladen wrote:}{quote}
> Quentin Correll wrote:
> 
> > It does surprise me a bit that someone in the development group hadn't
> > tested UD1 with known popular plug-ins. <sigh>
> 
> Maybe they use a development build that doesn't have the copy
> protection. At least I would do it. Why bother with a copy protection
> if you are the vendor of the application.
> 

Why bother? Because it can help you find nasty bugs, and if copy
protection in your product is annoying you than you can be sure that
it is even more annoying your customers.

Dalija Prasnikar
0
Dalija
11/13/2010 6:33:44 PM
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

> if copy protection in your product is annoying you than
> you can be sure that it is even more annoying your
> customers.

That's the point. Copy protection is annoying, and developers want to
do their job instead of fighting against it. For example, an
application from another department continuously stopped working
because the license ran out. We had to ask for a new license every
month until we achieved to get a non-expiring license file what made
our live a lot easier.


-- 
Andreas Hausladen
0
Andreas
11/13/2010 6:50:04 PM
> {quote:title=Quentin Correll wrote:}{quote}
> Dalija,
> 
> | I had to reinstall original XE Help to have them back. QC 89637
> 
> +10 on QC 89637!
> 

Thanks.

Dalija Prasnikar
0
Dalija
11/13/2010 6:53:50 PM
> {quote:title=Farshad Mohajeri wrote:}{quote}
> <Dalija Prasnikar> wrote in message news:305238@forums.embarcadero.com...
> > Grrrr.... Applying Help Update 1 has deleted all Windows SDK articles from 
> > Help.
> > I had to reinstall original XE Help to have them back. QC 89637
> >
> 
> The update completely killed my help.

Look on the bright side: it's only help. 

Dalija Prasnikar
0
Dalija
11/13/2010 6:54:41 PM
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

> Look on the bright side: it's only help. 

Unfortunately the only thing from Delphi's Help that I used were the
PSDK topics. :-( But I still have the PSDK in Delphi 2010.


-- 
Andreas Hausladen
0
Andreas
11/13/2010 6:59:24 PM
> {quote:title=Andreas Hausladen wrote:}{quote}
> Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
> 
> > Look on the bright side: it's only help. 
> 
> Unfortunately the only thing from Delphi's Help that I used were the
> PSDK topics. :-( But I still have the PSDK in Delphi 2010.
> 

I have completely unistalled Delphi XE help (repair won't do), and installed it
from the scratch from original ISO installer. Everything is back where it was. 
Without help update, of course. 

Dalija Prasnikar
0
Dalija
11/13/2010 7:24:16 PM
> {quote:title=Andreas Hausladen wrote:}{quote}
> Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
> 
> > if copy protection in your product is annoying you than
> > you can be sure that it is even more annoying your
> > customers.
> 
> That's the point. Copy protection is annoying, and developers want to
> do their job instead of fighting against it. 

Exactly. This whole Delphi copy protection is starting to feel like
a rope around my neck. 

Dalija Prasnikar
0
Dalija
11/13/2010 8:37:51 PM
Hello,

my help update just failed to extract helpemb_german. I redownloaded the
file (took the offer ot the dialogue) and also let it retry to extract,
but it fails reproducibly. The internet connection is fine as he already
downloaded other help related files.

Is there any reason why the Update1 installer available via registered
users page only includes a web installer for the help? Is it size?
I hope the complete ISO available in the next few days will solve this
issue?

Greetings

Markus
0
Markus
11/13/2010 9:59:34 PM
Andreas,

| Why bother with a copy protection
| if you are the vendor of the application.

You now know why.  ;-)

-- 

   Q

11/13/2010 15:22:03

XanaNews Version 1.19.1.278  [Q'sBrokenToolBar]
0
Quentin
11/13/2010 11:22:17 PM
Don't forget that English is, in fact, a Germanic language, with a few other 
things thrown in :-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_English_language

"Jennifer-Ashley Kuiper" <jennifer@maindevelopment.com> wrote in message 
news:305233@forums.embarcadero.com...
> There is no such thing as the beautiful German language. It is regarded a
> throat disease. :-)) Now, the Dutch language however...
>
> "Markus Humm" <markus.humm@freenet.de> schreef in bericht
> news:305228@forums.embarcadero.com...
>> Am 13.11.2010 09:31, schrieb Jennifer-Ashley Kuiper:
>>> There is no English version. Twice the German.
>>>
>>
>> This is means as an incetive to learn the beautiful German language ;-)
>>
>> Greetings from Germany
>>
>> Markus
0
Ewan
11/13/2010 11:35:15 PM
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
>> {quote:title=Quentin Correll wrote:}{quote}
>> Dalija,
>>
>> | I had to reinstall original XE Help to have them back. QC 89637
>>
>> +10 on QC 89637!
>>
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Dalija Prasnikar


I was able to reproduce this bug.

Here is a workaround:

1. Download the UpdatePack from the registered users page
2. Uninstall the previous version of the Help
3. Run Help_Setup.exe from the UpdatePack
4. Be sure to select the PSDK for install (it is off by default)

This will install the latest Help and the PSDK should end up on your system.

The problem occurs when running Help_Setup.exe /upgrade.  But if you 
uninstall the Help first, there is no problem.

-Tom
0
Tom
11/13/2010 11:50:25 PM
Same thing here..
0
Johan
11/14/2010 12:04:35 AM
Am 14.11.2010 00:50, schrieb Tom Avila:
> Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
>>> {quote:title=Quentin Correll wrote:}{quote}
>>> Dalija,
>>>
>>> | I had to reinstall original XE Help to have them back. QC 89637
>>>
>>> +10 on QC 89637!
>>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Dalija Prasnikar
> 
> 
> I was able to reproduce this bug.
> 
> Here is a workaround:
> 
> 1. Download the UpdatePack from the registered users page
> 2. Uninstall the previous version of the Help
> 3. Run Help_Setup.exe from the UpdatePack
> 4. Be sure to select the PSDK for install (it is off by default)
> 
> This will install the latest Help and the PSDK should end up on your system.
> 
> The problem occurs when running Help_Setup.exe /upgrade.  But if you 
> uninstall the Help first, there is no problem.
> 
> -Tom

And what about the problem of my help update where it couldn't unpack a
certain file, even if redownloaded?

Any chance to distribute the help update as a complete but separate
download as well?

Greetings

Markus
0
Markus
11/14/2010 8:59:00 AM
Hello,

I got it to work now. Uninstalled the old help and reinstalled help
update 1 completely including SDK. Works now.

Greetings

Markus
0
Markus
11/14/2010 9:37:47 AM
> There is no such thing as the beautiful German language. It is regarded a
> throat disease. :-))

Shame on you! Stay where you are!

-- 
Roman
0
Roman
11/14/2010 10:39:22 AM
> {quote:title=Tom Avila wrote:}{quote}
> Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
> >> {quote:title=Quentin Correll wrote:}{quote}
> >> Dalija,
> >>
> >> | I had to reinstall original XE Help to have them back. QC 89637
> >>
> >> +10 on QC 89637!
> >>
> > 
> > Thanks.
> > 
> > Dalija Prasnikar
> 
> 
> I was able to reproduce this bug.
> 
> Here is a workaround:
> 
> 1. Download the UpdatePack from the registered users page
> 2. Uninstall the previous version of the Help
> 3. Run Help_Setup.exe from the UpdatePack
> 4. Be sure to select the PSDK for install (it is off by default)
> 
> This will install the latest Help and the PSDK should end up on your system.
> 
> The problem occurs when running Help_Setup.exe /upgrade.  But if you 
> uninstall the Help first, there is no problem.
> 

Thanks!

Dalija Prasnikar
0
Dalija
11/14/2010 10:51:45 AM
> There is no such thing as the beautiful German language. It is regarded a
> throat disease. :-)) Now, the Dutch language however...

I just looked at you other posts about this topic although they are not 
worth to look at! It is a real shame that someone posts such an 
offensive stuff! I hope that your posts will be canceled!

BTW, my neighbor is a Dutch and he is married to a German, he speaks 
both languages fluently! But feel free not to visit Germany!

-- 
Roman
0
Roman
11/14/2010 11:28:50 AM
> {quote:title=Tom Avila wrote:}{quote}
> Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
> >> {quote:title=Quentin Correll wrote:}{quote}
> >> Dalija,
> >>
> >> | I had to reinstall original XE Help to have them back. QC 89637
> >>
> >> +10 on QC 89637!
> >>
> > 
> > Thanks.
> > 
> > Dalija Prasnikar
> 
> 
> I was able to reproduce this bug.
> 
> Here is a workaround:
> 
> 1. Download the UpdatePack from the registered users page
> 2. Uninstall the previous version of the Help
> 3. Run Help_Setup.exe from the UpdatePack
> 4. Be sure to select the PSDK for install (it is off by default)
> 
> This will install the latest Help and the PSDK should end up on your system.
> 
> The problem occurs when running Help_Setup.exe /upgrade.  But if you 
> uninstall the Help first, there is no problem.
> 

I have added this workaround to QC.

Dalija Prasnikar
0
Dalija
11/14/2010 11:45:04 AM
I was just kidding. Don't get your nickers in a twist. My best friend is 
German, and I do speak the language. If you can't pick up on all the 
subtleties, then please don't get involved in the discussion.

"Roman Kassebaum" <roman@nospamremoveitkassebaum.eu> schreef in bericht 
news:305392@forums.embarcadero.com...
>> There is no such thing as the beautiful German language. It is regarded a
>> throat disease. :-)) Now, the Dutch language however...
>
> I just looked at you other posts about this topic although they are not
> worth to look at! It is a real shame that someone posts such an
> offensive stuff! I hope that your posts will be canceled!
>
> BTW, my neighbor is a Dutch and he is married to a German, he speaks
> both languages fluently! But feel free not to visit Germany!
>
> -- 
> Roman
0
Jennifer
11/14/2010 12:10:02 PM
Am 14.11.2010 13:10, schrieb Jennifer-Ashley Kuiper:
> I was just kidding. Don't get your nickers in a twist. My best friend is
> German, and I do speak the language. If you can't pick up on all the
> subtleties, then please don't get involved in the discussion.

Both of you please calm down. There is no reason to offend each other 
nor has anything been said that actually does any harm. Can we please 
leave it at that?

Uwe Raabe
-- 
Uwe's Blog: The Art of Delphi Programming <http://www.uweraabe.de/>
0
Uwe
11/14/2010 12:18:28 PM
> I was just kidding.

You can't write offensive stuff, put a smiley behind and say it was just 
a joke. Your stuff was not funny.


> If you can't pick up on all the
> subtleties, then please don't get involved in the discussion.

This is still a public forum. I do not accept restrictions from your person.
0
Roman
11/14/2010 12:55:20 PM
Hi Uwe,

> Both of you please calm down. There is no reason to offend each other
> nor has anything been said that actually does any harm.

She started to offend other people.


> Can we please leave it at that?

No!

-- 
Roman
0
Roman
11/14/2010 12:59:10 PM
"Roman Kassebaum" <roman@nospamremoveitkassebaum.eu> wrote in message 
news:305401@forums.embarcadero.com...
>
> She started to offend other people.

Her comment obviously offended you. Perhaps others too but I have some doubt 
as I'm reasonably sure most others have some sense of humor and are able to 
assume she wrote in jest with no intention to offend.

>> Can we please leave it at that?
>
> No!

Why? Sometimes an effort at humour falls flat, but why assume an intention 
to offend, and why be so thin-skinned?

-- 
Wayne Niddery (TeamB)
You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot strengthen the 
weak by weakening the strong. You cannot bring about prosperity by 
discouraging thrift. You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage 
payer down. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class 
hatred. You cannot build character and courage by taking away people’s 
initiative and independence. - William J. H. Boetcker
0
Wayne
11/14/2010 2:23:31 PM
Wayne Niddery wrote:

> Why? Sometimes an effort at humour falls flat, but why assume an intention 
> to offend, and why be so thin-skinned?

Germans have no humour? ;)

Jan Derk
0
Jan
11/14/2010 2:39:52 PM
Wayne,

>>> Can we please leave it at that?
>>
>> No!
>
> Why? Sometimes an effort at humour falls flat, but why assume an intention
> to offend, and why be so thin-skinned?

You and Uwe are right. I will stop at this point.

-- 
Roman
0
Roman
11/14/2010 2:40:23 PM
Jan,

> Germans have no humour? ;)

As much as our neighbors and friends. ;)

-- 
Roman
0
Roman
11/14/2010 2:42:28 PM
+1

"Wayne Niddery" <wniddery@chaffrogers.com> schreef in bericht 
news:305412@forums.embarcadero.com...
> "Roman Kassebaum" <roman@nospamremoveitkassebaum.eu> wrote in message
> news:305401@forums.embarcadero.com...
>>
>> She started to offend other people.
>
> Her comment obviously offended you. Perhaps others too but I have some 
> doubt
> as I'm reasonably sure most others have some sense of humor and are able 
> to
> assume she wrote in jest with no intention to offend.
>
>>> Can we please leave it at that?
>>
>> No!
>
> Why? Sometimes an effort at humour falls flat, but why assume an intention
> to offend, and why be so thin-skinned?
>
> -- 
> Wayne Niddery (TeamB)
> You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot strengthen the
> weak by weakening the strong. You cannot bring about prosperity by
> discouraging thrift. You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the 
> wage
> payer down. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class
> hatred. You cannot build character and courage by taking away people’s
> initiative and independence. - William J. H. Boetcker
0
Jennifer
11/14/2010 3:48:36 PM
+1

"Wayne Niddery" <wniddery@chaffrogers.com> schreef in bericht 
news:305412@forums.embarcadero.com...
> "Roman Kassebaum" <roman@nospamremoveitkassebaum.eu> wrote in message
> news:305401@forums.embarcadero.com...
>>
>> She started to offend other people.
>
> Her comment obviously offended you. Perhaps others too but I have some 
> doubt
> as I'm reasonably sure most others have some sense of humor and are able 
> to
> assume she wrote in jest with no intention to offend.
>
>>> Can we please leave it at that?
>>
>> No!
>
> Why? Sometimes an effort at humour falls flat, but why assume an intention
> to offend, and why be so thin-skinned?
>
> -- 
> Wayne Niddery (TeamB)
> You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot strengthen the
> weak by weakening the strong. You cannot bring about prosperity by
> discouraging thrift. You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the 
> wage
> payer down. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class
> hatred. You cannot build character and courage by taking away people’s
> initiative and independence. - William J. H. Boetcker
0
Jennifer
11/14/2010 5:46:59 PM
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

> Exactly. This whole Delphi copy protection is starting to feel like
> a rope around my neck. 

How, exactly?

-- 
Nick Hodges -- Product Development Manager
Gateway Ticketing Systems
http://www.gatewayticketing.com
0
Nick
11/14/2010 9:46:42 PM
"Tim DelChiaro" wrote in message news:305142@forums.embarcadero.com...
> Update 1 for Delphi XE and C++Builder XE is now available.
>
> It's available first through the auto update system. It should be 
> available from the registered users download pages within two hours and 
> available in the full product installers and ISOs for purchasers, 
> customers and trial downloaders next week.
>
> For more information, see the following.
>
> Update 1 or Delphi XE and C++Builder XE Readme
> http://edn.embarcadero.com/article/40881
>
> Update 1 for Delphi XE and C++Builder XE Fix List
> http://edn.embarcadero.com/article/40984

Great news... I'm going to update it first. I hope some of bugs that I have
reported was fixed. :)

-- 
Regards,


Eko Indriyawan
www.ekoindri.com
Delphi has helped me to make something impossible can be realized with 
possible way
0
Eko
11/15/2010 2:22:03 AM
Nick Hodges wrote:

> Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
> 
> > Exactly. This whole Delphi copy protection is starting to feel like
> > a rope around my neck. 
> 
> How, exactly?


When is it going to cause a problem next?
What if the next change detects/prevents use in a VM?
What if the next policy change requires an always-on internet
connection?
What if the next step is continuous monitoring + reporting "suspicious
activity" back to EMBT?

Is the intent of activation simply to reduce piracy and casual copying
in an organisation, or is it now to try and secure a tightened grip
over customer code, so that it can be held hostage in the future?

When the company refuses to clarify policy in this area - and you were
never able to state what the EOL policy is, or even explain why it
could not be made public - then protecting my best interests demands
that I try and understand possible risks.

EMBT management may not sit in an underground lair stroking a white cat
and planning total world domination, but IMO if they could make a few
dollars extra by screwing over a number of their customers, they will
do. I just don't want to be one of the people waking up unhappy in the
morning.
0
Ian
11/15/2010 12:27:00 PM
After what appears to be a successful install of update1, I run
Delphi XE (pro).
I exit Delphi and I get error messages relating to 'tamper' and
the browser pops up with web site on how to by Delphi. Another
pop up form Delphi says to solve the problem 'purchase the product'...

not very friendly,

a very long term delphi user...
0
Rudy
11/15/2010 2:29:17 PM
> {quote:title=Ian Hall wrote:}{quote}
> Nick Hodges wrote:
> 
> > Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
> > 
> > > Exactly. This whole Delphi copy protection is starting to feel like
> > > a rope around my neck. 
> > 
> > How, exactly?
> 
> 
> When is it going to cause a problem next?
> What if the next change detects/prevents use in a VM?
> What if the next policy change requires an always-on internet
> connection?
> What if the next step is continuous monitoring + reporting "suspicious
> activity" back to EMBT?
> 
> Is the intent of activation simply to reduce piracy and casual copying
> in an organisation, or is it now to try and secure a tightened grip
> over customer code, so that it can be held hostage in the future?
> 
> When the company refuses to clarify policy in this area - and you were
> never able to state what the EOL policy is, or even explain why it
> could not be made public - then protecting my best interests demands
> that I try and understand possible risks.
> 
> EMBT management may not sit in an underground lair stroking a white cat
> and planning total world domination, but IMO if they could make a few
> dollars extra by screwing over a number of their customers, they will
> do. I just don't want to be one of the people waking up unhappy in the
> morning.

Good points.

Dalija Prasnikar
0
Dalija
11/15/2010 2:33:41 PM
> {quote:title=Nick Hodges wrote:}{quote}
> Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
> 
> > Exactly. This whole Delphi copy protection is starting to feel like
> > a rope around my neck. 
> 
> How, exactly?
> 

While Ian's points are more related to change of policies, I would
make a few points that are related to current status.

We all have to thank Microsoft for introducing activation, after that
other companies followed because once users got used to Windows
activation it was much easier to include activation within the product
without any need for further explaining.

But, Microsoft has local offices all over the world.
I can make a call in 3 am asking for Windows activation in case I have
troubles with automatic activation, or I don't have Internet connection at 
the moment. (If you think that not having Internet connection is highly 
unlikely, it is not. Last year our company was without Internet for 4 days 
because construction workers managed to cut off the line).

Another very important thing is that Microsoft gives you 30 days to activate.
That means in case of big trouble you can always make a complete reinstall
and have another 30 days. It is not something you are going to do very often
but at least you know that possibility exists. Embarcadero has zero days
for activation, you can either activate or look at unusable XXXX dollars worth
tool that pays your bills. Not very reassuring. 

And computers do crash, it is not very unlikely scenario. I have spare computers
and parts I can use if my main machine goes down, I can even go to nearby store
that works from 9.00 am to 9.00 pm seven days a week and buy a new one.
I can install Windows and Delphi in matter of few hours, but if for some reason I cannot
activate Delphi I am stuck.

The fact is that Embarcarero's servers can also go down, and it is not unimaginable that
in case of some natural disaster it could take quite some time to get them up again.
In the meantime Embarcadero's customers can live in fear of sudden hardvare or software
failures. 

Delphi activation problems are like an earthquake, I don't want to think about it, but it
doesn't mean that it could not happen.

And I don't even want to start speculating about "Delphi is dead" scenarios.

Dalija Prasnikar
0
Dalija
11/15/2010 2:55:35 PM
Rudy Poseika wrote:
> After what appears to be a successful install of update1, I run
> Delphi XE (pro).
> I exit Delphi and I get error messages relating to 'tamper' and
> the browser pops up with web site on how to by Delphi. Another
> pop up form Delphi says to solve the problem 'purchase the product'...
>
> not very friendly,
>
> a very long term delphi user...

It could be the DDevExtensions from Andy.  He has a new update (2.1?) 
that takes care of that.

Apparently, his old DDevExtensions touched an area of the API that is 
now copy protected.

So, uninstall DDevExtensions and you should be OK. Then go back and 
install the latest DDevExtensions.

HTH.

-Eduardo
0
Eduardo
11/15/2010 4:04:37 PM
> {quote:title=Andreas Hausladen wrote:}{quote}
> Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
> 
> > if copy protection in your product is annoying you than
> > you can be sure that it is even more annoying your
> > customers.
> 
> That's the point. Copy protection is annoying, and developers want to
> do their job instead of fighting against it. For example, an
> application from another department continuously stopped working
> because the license ran out. We had to ask for a new license every
> month until we achieved to get a non-expiring license file what made
> our live a lot easier.


Hi Andreas, the team tests with exactly the same bits that go out to the world. 

I believe Allen is discussing with you how to proceed around this issue? Of course we want to support our community. 

Normally the beta is great at catching any serious issues that impact real world component usage. I'm interested why this isn't the case. 

The team spent a considerable amount of time and effort on this update, several weeks of bake time even when things had stabilized, so this is just an unfortunate case we'll try to resolve as rapidly as possible.

Regards,

Chris
0
Chris
11/15/2010 4:15:58 PM
Thanks! that was it.


> It could be the DDevExtensions from Andy.  He has a new update (2.1?)
> that takes care of that.
>
> Apparently, his old DDevExtensions touched an area of the API that is
> now copy protected.
>
> So, uninstall DDevExtensions and you should be OK. Then go back and
> install the latest DDevExtensions.
>
> HTH.
>
> -Eduardo
0
Rudy
11/15/2010 4:20:20 PM
> Great news... I'm going to update it first. I hope some of bugs that I 
> have
> reported was fixed. :)

After see the reports that already fixed, it seems that those issue is not 
important for me
and I decide to cancel update my Delphi. :(

-- 
Regards,


Eko Indriyawan
www.ekoindri.com
Delphi has helped me to make something impossible can be realized with 
possible way
0
Eko
11/15/2010 4:40:07 PM
Chris Pattinson wrote:

> The team spent a considerable amount of time and effort on this
> update, several weeks of bake time even when things had stabilized,
> so this is just an unfortunate case we'll try to resolve as rapidly
> as possible.

It is already solved.


-- 
Andreas Hausladen
0
Andreas
11/15/2010 5:25:23 PM
Eduardo A. Salgado wrote:

> It could be the DDevExtensions from Andy.  He has a new update (2.1?) 
> that takes care of that.

If Embt has a page hit counter on the how-to-buy page, it is now
useless because of all the false positives. :-)


-- 
Andreas Hausladen
0
Andreas
11/15/2010 5:27:36 PM
> {quote:title=Eko Indriyawan wrote:}{quote}
> > Great news... I'm going to update it first. I hope some of bugs that I 
> > have
> > reported was fixed. :)
> 
> After see the reports that already fixed, it seems that those issue is not 
> important for me
> and I decide to cancel update my Delphi. :(
> 

Compiling speed is almost doubled in this update :)
Maybe you should update after all.

From Chris Pattinson post in another thread:

Please see the latest update - performance improvements are in, and QA reported results such as the following test cases:

Test Case #1
427319 lines of source code involving multiple unit files, no project
D2010 - 6.13 sec.
DXE RTM - 3.83 sec.
DXE Update 1 - 2.93 sec.

Test Case #2
1445167 lines generating 21871576 bytes code, 1099467 bytes data
D2010 - 37.03 sec.
DXE RTM - 61.78 sec.
DXE Update 1 - 38.28 sec.

Test Case #3
378265 lines generating 8160264 bytes code, 39644 bytes data
D2010 - 25.94 sec.
DXE RTM - 46.88 sec.
DXE Update 1 - 28.54

Dalija Prasnikar
0
Dalija
11/15/2010 5:35:59 PM
Ian Hall wrote:
> What if the next change detects/prevents use in a VM?

I'm concerned about this one also. We're in the process of moving toward wide
use of VMs, which of course we tend to wipeout and recreate much more often
than physical PCs. It would be extremely helpful to be able to do a
fully-automated Delphi install, with no prompting for activation etc. Yet I
fear the general movement is even farther away from there. I wish I could just
pay my money (however many $ per user) and have it Just Work, like in the old
pre-activation days.


-- 
Kyle Cordes
http://kylecordes.com/
0
Kyle
11/15/2010 6:40:17 PM
Am 15.11.2010 19:40, schrieb Kyle Cordes:
> Ian Hall wrote:
>> What if the next change detects/prevents use in a VM?
> 
> I'm concerned about this one also. We're in the process of moving toward wide
> use of VMs, which of course we tend to wipeout and recreate much more often
> than physical PCs. It would be extremely helpful to be able to do a
> fully-automated Delphi install, with no prompting for activation etc. Yet I
> fear the general movement is even farther away from there. I wish I could just
> pay my money (however many $ per user) and have it Just Work, like in the old
> pre-activation days.
> 
> 

You could get away with a base VM and then taking a snapshow of this so
you don't need to wipe out everything and start from scrath but rather
start from a known basis.

Greetings

Markus
0
Markus
11/15/2010 7:02:10 PM
Markus Humm wrote:>
> You could get away with a base VM and then taking a snapshow of this so
> you don't need to wipe out everything and start from scrath but rather
> start from a known basis.


It depends on how you're working with the VMs, and how the activation system
works. In many cases you need to clone in a way that "syspreps" the clone, so
it can take on a new and different identify. Some activation systems (I don't
recall whether Delphi's works this way, too many wheels in motion...) are
designed to lose their activation in this process.


-- 
Kyle Cordes
http://kylecordes.com/
0
Kyle
11/15/2010 8:57:39 PM
Ian Hall wrote:

> When is it going to cause a problem next?
> What if the next change detects/prevents use in a VM?
> What if the next policy change requires an always-on internet
> connection?
> What if the next step is continuous monitoring + reporting "suspicious
> activity" back to EMBT?

So the problem is that you are worried about what /might/ happen?

-- 
Nick Hodges -- Product Development Manager
Gateway Ticketing Systems
http://www.gatewayticketing.com
0
Nick
11/15/2010 10:41:04 PM
Nick Hodges wrote:
> Ian Hall wrote:
>
>> When is it going to cause a problem next?
>> What if the next change detects/prevents use in a VM?
>> What if the next policy change requires an always-on internet
>> connection?
>> What if the next step is continuous monitoring + reporting "suspicious
>> activity" back to EMBT?
>
> So the problem is that you are worried about what /might/ happen?
>

I really wish I had your optimism, Nick.  While I don't have
a machine powerful enough to be a VM host, the 3rd and 4th
question concerns me the most.  It is better to have voiced
'possible' eventualities before the company goes for
such a policy.

Having to need an always-on Internet connection in order to
use a product that shouldn't require Internet access (with
the exception of Checking for updates), this is a no way.
If I want to protect my dev machine from the Internet,
I won't be able to use the product on my dev machine then.

Also, IMO, this 'always-on' policy is contrary to the current
licensing agreement.  The current policy states that i can install
the product on ANY machine.  This 'always-on' policy restricts
this to only machines that has Internet access.  So instead
of dictating where the user wants to use the product, a user
is now dictated where it can be installed.  Now, is this a valid
gripe?  Of course, this is a (for lack of a better phrase)
'preemptive advice' to EMBT to steer clear away from 'always-on' 
Internet requirements for any of its software.  Of course,
what they do is their business.  Yes. Another 'of course' is
that EMBT modifies their EULA.

On the other hand, perhaps I'm in the minority who are strongly
against  this 'always-on' policy.

Just my $0.02.

Edmund
0
Edmund
11/16/2010 1:53:44 AM
Edmund Wong wrote:

> Having to need an always-on Internet connection in order to
> use a product that shouldn't require Internet access (with
> the exception of Checking for updates), this is a no way.

Given that, what makes you think that you'll need one?  


> On the other hand, perhaps I'm in the minority who are strongly
> against  this 'always-on' policy.

There is no such policy, so you don't have to be against it.  ;-)

-- 
Nick Hodges -- Product Development Manager
Gateway Ticketing Systems
http://www.gatewayticketing.com
0
Nick
11/16/2010 2:27:33 AM
> {quote:title=Edmund Wong wrote:}{quote}
> Nick Hodges wrote:
> > Ian Hall wrote:
> >> When is it going to cause a problem next?
> >> What if the next change detects/prevents use in a VM?
> >> What if the next policy change requires an always-on internet
> >> connection?
> >> What if the next step is continuous monitoring + reporting "suspicious
> >> activity" back to EMBT?
> >
> > So the problem is that you are worried about what /might/ happen?

Well, you know what they say, Nick.  "Just because you're paranoid doesn't necessarily mean they're not out to get you."  ;)

Actually, when Delphi product activation first appeared, I assumed it was another bad decision pushed by Borland upper management, and I fully expected it to be removed from the product by CodeGear/Embarcadero.  I was extremely disappointed when I found out members of the DevRel staff actually thought it was a good idea, and well-implemented.  So I really wouldn't be that surprised by whatever comes next.

> On the other hand, perhaps I'm in the minority who are strongly
> against  this 'always-on' policy.

I'm not sure if there's a clear majority, Edmund, but I think there would be a significant number of Delphi developers joining in the protest if that "always-on" policy were ever implemented.  Keep in mind it's just a "what if" question that Ian was asking.  You seem to talk like it's already been implemented, and I'm not sure where you got that idea.
--
Rick Carter
Cincinnati, OH
0
Rick
11/16/2010 2:29:00 AM
Hi Dalija,

> Compiling speed is almost doubled in this update :)
> Maybe you should update after all.

Thank you very much for your information above.

FYI, I have been developing my product with many projects, so I don't have 
big project.
From this point, I don't have a problem in compiling speed. For me, current 
version can
build my each project in few seconds only.

I need more enhancements or features that could help me much like what I 
have requested
by QC.

Staring from D2007 until last version, WSDL importer still cannot generate 
Web Service
from MS SQL Server completely(Web service in MS SQL Server known as End 
Point).

I hope for Update 2 or next release, embarcadero will add Delphi with more 
and more
enhancements/features. IMO, I think if embarcadero team can realize many 
request features
from the customer, Delphi will be more powerful and they will be as the 
loyal customer.

Sometimes, I have many ideas to make Delphi more better and I have a problem 
about how
to tell to embarcadero about those(my english is not good to describe the 
request goodly).

Any way, I would like to say thank you very much for embarcadero team that 
already work
hard to make Delphi more better and maybe make it as the best compiler in 
the wordl :)

-- 
Regards,


Eko Indriyawan
www.ekoindri.com
Delphi has helped me to make something impossible can be realized with 
possible way
0
Eko
11/16/2010 2:56:21 AM
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

> While Ian's points are more related to change of policies, I would
> make a few points that are related to current status.
> 
> We all have to thank Microsoft for introducing activation, after that
> other companies followed because once users got used to Windows
> activation it was much easier to include activation within the product
> without any need for further explaining.
> 
> But, Microsoft has local offices all over the world.
> I can make a call in 3 am asking for Windows activation in case I have
> troubles with automatic activation, or I don't have Internet
> connection at the moment. (If you think that not having Internet
> connection is highly unlikely, it is not. Last year our company was
> without Internet for 4 days because construction workers managed to
> cut off the line).

Rest of World = second class customer (with first class prices).

> Another very important thing is that Microsoft gives you 30 days to
> activate.  That means in case of big trouble you can always make a
> complete reinstall and have another 30 days. It is not something you
> are going to do very often but at least you know that possibility
> exists. Embarcadero has zero days for activation, you can either
> activate or look at unusable XXXX dollars worth tool that pays your
> bills. Not very reassuring.

That is not a concern for EMBT. All customers are potential pirates:
they have the figures to "prove" it.
 
> And computers do crash, it is not very unlikely scenario. I have
> spare computers and parts I can use if my main machine goes down, I
> can even go to nearby store that works from 9.00 am to 9.00 pm seven
> days a week and buy a new one.  I can install Windows and Delphi in
> matter of few hours, but if for some reason I cannot activate Delphi
> I am stuck.

I refuse to adopt any development product that can not be run inside a
VM.

> The fact is that Embarcarero's servers can also go down, and it is
> not unimaginable that in case of some natural disaster it could take
> quite some time to get them up again.  In the meantime Embarcadero's
> customers can live in fear of sudden hardvare or software failures. 
> 
> Delphi activation problems are like an earthquake, I don't want to
> think about it, but it doesn't mean that it could not happen.
> 
> And I don't even want to start speculating about "Delphi is dead"
> scenarios.

I have a legal obligation to plan for this eventuality. I do not think
that it is likely to happen, but it is definitely possible, and so I
MUST have a contingency plan. For me, that is using VMWare.
0
Ian
11/16/2010 9:19:41 AM
Nick Hodges wrote:

> Ian Hall wrote:
> 
> > When is it going to cause a problem next?
> > What if the next change detects/prevents use in a VM?
> > What if the next policy change requires an always-on internet
> > connection?
> > What if the next step is continuous monitoring + reporting
> > "suspicious activity" back to EMBT?
> 
> So the problem is that you are worried about what might happen?

Wrong.

This has ALREADY been raised by lawyers in a due-diligence exercise.
These people are looking for ANY reason to write down value or impose
warranties.

I can see that it is different if you are just a middle manager in some
body else's company; however, I am a director, and personally liable to
the shareholders of my company for the security of THEIR assets.

Do you have a disaster recovery plan? This is part of that process. I
see the current activation system as a point of failure for my product,
and must plan for this eventuality.

In addition, given the "mission creep" that such schemes can attract,
speculating about possible future directions is a REQUIREMENT.

You need to start thinking like a general, not like a lieutenant.
0
Ian
11/16/2010 9:30:43 AM
Nick Hodges wrote:

> Edmund Wong wrote:
> 
> > Having to need an always-on Internet connection in order to
> > use a product that shouldn't require Internet access (with
> > the exception of Checking for updates), this is a no way.
> 
> Given that, what makes you think that you'll need one?  
> 
> 
> > On the other hand, perhaps I'm in the minority who are strongly
> > against  this 'always-on' policy.
> 
> There is no such policy, so you don't have to be against it.  ;-)

If EMBT thought they could make one dollar more by doing this, they
would.

I THINK that they realise that this move could lose them
customers/money, and so will not do it. However, all it takes is an
executive with a bad idea.....
0
Ian
11/16/2010 9:32:31 AM
> {quote:title=Ian Hall wrote:}{quote}
> Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
> 
> > The fact is that Embarcarero's servers can also go down, and it is
> > not unimaginable that in case of some natural disaster it could take
> > quite some time to get them up again.  In the meantime Embarcadero's
> > customers can live in fear of sudden hardvare or software failures. 
> > 
> > Delphi activation problems are like an earthquake, I don't want to
> > think about it, but it doesn't mean that it could not happen.
> > 
> > And I don't even want to start speculating about "Delphi is dead"
> > scenarios.
> 
> I have a legal obligation to plan for this eventuality. I do not think
> that it is likely to happen, but it is definitely possible, and so I
> MUST have a contingency plan. For me, that is using VMWare.

I don't have to look that far ahead, and at the moment I have Delphi
installed on several computers, so I think I am covered as far the 
small disasters like computer crash are concerned, but I think sooner 
or later I'll have to go with WMWare solution also.

Dalija Prasnikar
0
Dalija
11/16/2010 10:05:49 AM
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

> > {quote:title=Ian Hall wrote:}{quote}
> > Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
> > 
> > > The fact is that Embarcarero's servers can also go down, and it is
> > > not unimaginable that in case of some natural disaster it could
> > > take quite some time to get them up again.  In the meantime
> > > Embarcadero's customers can live in fear of sudden hardvare or
> > > software failures.
> > > 
> > > Delphi activation problems are like an earthquake, I don't want to
> > > think about it, but it doesn't mean that it could not happen.
> > > 
> > > And I don't even want to start speculating about "Delphi is dead"
> > > scenarios.
> > 
> > I have a legal obligation to plan for this eventuality. I do not
> > think that it is likely to happen, but it is definitely possible,
> > and so I MUST have a contingency plan. For me, that is using VMWare.
> 
> I don't have to look that far ahead, and at the moment I have Delphi
> installed on several computers, so I think I am covered as far the 
> small disasters like computer crash are concerned, but I think sooner 
> or later I'll have to go with WMWare solution also.
> 
> Dalija Prasnikar

I have found it a big benefit. I take snapshots before any system
changes, like Delphi updates, and simply roll back to these if there
are any problems.

It is also nice to keep a clean OS permanently available for trying out
my own installs: this detected several issues where pre-requisites
needed to be added.

There is no way I would have upgraded from D5 without using VMWare, but
now I would keep my development inside a VM even if activation was
completely removed from RAD Studio.

Ian
0
Ian
11/16/2010 10:44:01 AM
> {quote:title=Ian Hall wrote:}{quote}
> 
> I have found it a big benefit. I take snapshots before any system
> changes, like Delphi updates, and simply roll back to these if there
> are any problems.
> 
> It is also nice to keep a clean OS permanently available for trying out
> my own installs: this detected several issues where pre-requisites
> needed to be added.
> 
> There is no way I would have upgraded from D5 without using VMWare, but
> now I would keep my development inside a VM even if activation was
> completely removed from RAD Studio.
> 

Yo are quite convincing, I guess I'll give it a try sooner than expected ;-)

Dalija Prasnikar
0
Dalija
11/16/2010 11:24:46 AM
In article <305813@forums.embarcadero.com>, Nick Hodges wrote:
> So the problem is that you are worried about what /might/ happen?

It's a very proper concern, surely? You'll remember that when Borland 
was a listed company each annual report carried a wonderful [anti 
stockholder lawsuit] list of all the things that could go wrong - 'no 
one might buy our products', 'our staff might be poached', 'a 
competitor might bring out something that takes away our market' and 
so on. 

In the case of those of us who are Delphi users, the risk - very low 
perhaps - is that if something happened that made Delphi activation 
impossible, we might only be in business for as long as our current 
hardware kept working. 

-- 
Tony Bryer, Greentram Software Pty Ltd, Melbourne, Australia
'Software to build on'  http://www.greentram.com
0
Tony
11/16/2010 11:51:38 AM
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

> > {quote:title=Ian Hall wrote:}{quote}
> > 
> > I have found it a big benefit. I take snapshots before any system
> > changes, like Delphi updates, and simply roll back to these if there
> > are any problems.
> > 
> > It is also nice to keep a clean OS permanently available for trying
> > out my own installs: this detected several issues where
> > pre-requisites needed to be added.
> > 
> > There is no way I would have upgraded from D5 without using VMWare,
> > but now I would keep my development inside a VM even if activation
> > was completely removed from RAD Studio.
> > 
> 
> Yo are quite convincing, I guess I'll give it a try sooner than
> expected ;-)

A lot of people here now work that way, including people using Macs to
develop Windows software; there have been a few decent discussions here
about the pros and cons of various setup options, if you want to read
up on it.

Good luck!

Ian
0
Ian
11/16/2010 2:23:09 PM
> {quote:title=Ian Hall wrote:}{quote}
> Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
> 
> > > {quote:title=Ian Hall wrote:}{quote}
> > > 
> > > I have found it a big benefit. I take snapshots before any system
> > > changes, like Delphi updates, and simply roll back to these if there
> > > are any problems.
> > > 
> > > It is also nice to keep a clean OS permanently available for trying
> > > out my own installs: this detected several issues where
> > > pre-requisites needed to be added.
> > > 
> > > There is no way I would have upgraded from D5 without using VMWare,
> > > but now I would keep my development inside a VM even if activation
> > > was completely removed from RAD Studio.
> > > 
> > 
> > Yo are quite convincing, I guess I'll give it a try sooner than
> > expected ;-)
> 
> A lot of people here now work that way, including people using Macs to
> develop Windows software; there have been a few decent discussions here
> about the pros and cons of various setup options, if you want to read
> up on it.
> 
> Good luck!
> 

I'll look into those discussions, since developing for Mac is on my company's roadmap.
Thanks for the info.

Dalija Prasnikar
0
Dalija
11/16/2010 3:25:42 PM
> {quote:title=Robert Dawson wrote:}{quote}
> <Tim DelChiaro> wrote
>  in message news:305142@forums.embarcadero.com...
> > Update 1 for Delphi XE and C++Builder XE is now available.
> 
> Is the deveoper edition of Interbase included in RADStudio XE being updated 
> to the Interbase XE release? or is it still the prior release?
> 
> bobD

We didn't change the bundled version of InterBase, but InterBase XE Developer Edition is available as a free download from https://downloads.embarcadero.com/free/interbase. 

Tim
--
Tim Del Chiaro
Product Marketing - RAD Studio, Delphi, C++Builder, Delphi Prism and RadPHP
http://delphi-insider.blogspot.com
0
Tim
11/16/2010 4:59:27 PM
On 11/16/2010 5:24 AM, Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
>
> Yo are quite convincing, I guess I'll give it a try sooner than expected ;-)
>
> Dalija Prasnikar

Give it a try, you'll never look back.

A perfect example of the beauty of developing in a VM.  I just came back 
from a two week vacation to find that the hard drive with my VMs on had 
failed while I was gone (welcome back!).  I was able to run out, get 
another couple of drives (I have a mirrored RAID now) and copy an image 
back to the new drive.  The slowest part was resynching the RAID.  All 
in all, I was back online with a completely restored dev system in less 
than two hours.
0
Dave
11/16/2010 5:15:25 PM
Dave White wrote:

> A perfect example of the beauty of developing in a VM.  I just came
> back from a two week vacation to find that the hard drive with my VMs
> on had failed while I was gone (welcome back!).  I was able to run
> out, get another couple of drives (I have a mirrored RAID now) and
> copy an image back to the new drive.  The slowest part was resynching
> the RAID.  All in all, I was back online with a completely restored
> dev system in less than two hours.

I had a motherboard failure a couple weeks ago, and the hard drive was
killed in the process, though it passed all the tests I could throw at
it.  Moving to another computer and recovering the latest backup, while
figuring out that the drive was lethally damaged, and recovering from
all the errors I made along the way, took about a week.  A really
painful experience!  My next move was to buy a Mac, which I need for a
future development project anyway, and put my Windows system on it
under VMware Fusion.  Now I essentially have a backup Windows box that
I can pop the VM onto if there is a failure on the Mac, and keep on
trucking.

-- 
Cheers,
Van

"Half of what I say is meaningless..." - John Lennon
"Your job is to figure out which half." - Van Swofford
0
Van
11/16/2010 7:11:36 PM
Ian Hall wrote:

> There is no way I would have upgraded from D5 without using VMWare,
> but now I would keep my development inside a VM even if activation was
> completely removed from RAD Studio.

How do you use VMWare without activating it?

-- 
John Kaster http://blogs.embarcadero.com/johnk
Embarcadero Developer Network: http://edn.embarcadero.com
Features and bugs: http://qc.embarcadero.com
Got source?  http://cc.embarcadero.com
0
John
11/16/2010 8:50:00 PM
> How do you use VMWare without activating it?

Simple 
if you have the serial number to install it 
it just works and that is all that is required
0
Dennis
11/16/2010 9:02:26 PM
Produce activation hurts registered users when it brings up barriers to use.  

It's more convenient to use a pirated version of delphi than a "standard" 
licensed one

-- 
  Taz=TProgrammer.create(Delphi)
0
Tarry
11/16/2010 9:31:26 PM
Dalija Prasnikar brought next idea :
> Another very important thing is that Microsoft gives you 30 days to activate.
> That means in case of big trouble you can always make a complete reinstall
> and have another 30 days. It is not something you are going to do very often
> but at least you know that possibility exists. Embarcadero has zero days
> for activation, you can either activate or look at unusable XXXX dollars 
> worth tool that pays your bills.

I just tried it with D2010 and I have 14 days to activate.

Surely not quite as good as 30, but surely much
better than 0 that was advertised here.

HTH,
Brad.

-- 
 


"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has 
endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us 
to forgo their use."
  -- Galileo Galilei
0
Brad
11/16/2010 11:29:34 PM
Ian Hall wrote:

> If EMBT thought they could make one dollar more by doing this, they
> would.

So would any other company -- that's what companies do.  I assume that
EMBT thinks that this will increase profits.


> I THINK that they realise that this move could lose them
> customers/money, and so will not do it. However, all it takes is an
> executive with a bad idea.....

So we are back to worrying about things that /might/ happen.  ;-)

-- 
Nick Hodges -- Product Development Manager
Gateway Ticketing Systems
http://www.gatewayticketing.com
0
Nick
11/17/2010 12:01:54 AM
Ian Hall wrote:

> You need to start thinking like a general, not like a lieutenant.

Why do I need to start thinking about this at all?

-- 
Nick Hodges -- Product Development Manager
Gateway Ticketing Systems
http://www.gatewayticketing.com
0
Nick
11/17/2010 12:02:30 AM
Tony Bryer wrote:

> 
> It's a very proper concern, surely?

Didn't say it wasn't -- just making the point.  The OP said "This was
beginning to feel like a rope around my neck" and I wondered why.
Point being, it now appears that this "rope" is coming not from
anything tangible, but from what "might" happen.

-- 
Nick Hodges -- Product Development Manager
Gateway Ticketing Systems
http://www.gatewayticketing.com
0
Nick
11/17/2010 12:03:57 AM
Tarry Higgins wrote:

> Produce activation hurts registered users when it brings up barriers
> to use.

Sorry, I'm confused, I thought we were talking about copy protection,
not activation.  Did we switch somewhere...?


> It's more convenient to use a pirated version of delphi than a
> "standard" licensed one

Only if there is one.

-- 
Nick Hodges -- Product Development Manager
Gateway Ticketing Systems
http://www.gatewayticketing.com
0
Nick
11/17/2010 12:04:56 AM
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

> Embarcadero has zero days
> for activation, you can either activate or look at unusable XXXX
> dollars worth tool that pays your bills. Not very reassuring.

As Brad pointed out, it's 14 days, not 0 (zero).

-- 
John Kaster http://blogs.embarcadero.com/johnk
Embarcadero Developer Network: http://edn.embarcadero.com
Features and bugs: http://qc.embarcadero.com
Got source?  http://cc.embarcadero.com
0
John
11/17/2010 12:39:24 AM
> {quote:title=Nick Hodges wrote:}{quote}
> 
> So we are back to worrying about things that /might/ happen.  ;-)
> 

Do you own any voluntary insurance policies? If so, you should cancel them if you don't worry about things that /might/ happen ;-)
0
Chris
11/17/2010 1:24:41 AM
Jennifer-Ashley Kuiper wrote:

> There is no such thing as the beautiful German language. It is
> regarded a throat disease. :-)) Now, the Dutch language however...

With the sharp G spoken in the Netherlands, most non-Dutch people I
know consider Dutch to be a throat disease. <g>

-- 
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)        http://www.teamb.com

"Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so."
 -- Bertrand Russell (1872-1970)
0
Rudy
11/17/2010 2:21:00 AM
> {quote:title=Tarry Higgins wrote:}{quote}
> Produce activation hurts registered users when it brings up barriers to use.  

So now Embarcadero has started selling fruits and vegetables, and requires them to be activated too?

This is taking things too far!
--
Rick Carter
Cincinnati, OH
0
Rick
11/17/2010 2:26:33 AM
Roman Kassebaum wrote:

> > I was just kidding.
> 
> You can't write offensive stuff, put a smiley behind and say it was
> just a joke. Your stuff was not funny.
> 
> 
> > If you can't pick up on all the
> > subtleties, then please don't get involved in the discussion.
> 
> This is still a public forum. I do not accept restrictions from your
> person.

Roman, I don't see anything really offensive here, and I know both
languages and countries pretty well, and I see what was written as
merely some friendly jabs.

Just note how the Dutch and Belgians will also take friendly jabs at
each other, or how the northern Germans will take friendly jabs at the
Bavarians, Saxons, or Austrians, and how the southern Germans and
Austrians will take friendly jabs at the Frisians or the Prussians, etc.

-- 
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)        http://www.teamb.com

"t is not so much the suffering as the senselessness of it that
 is unendurable."
 -- Nietzsche
0
Rudy
11/17/2010 2:28:26 AM
Chris Burrows wrote:

> Do you own any voluntary insurance policies? If so, you should cancel
> them if you don't worry about things that might happen ;-)

I didn't say that one shouldn't worry about what might happen. One is
free to do so.  However to say that something that /might/ happen feels
like a noose around's one's neck seems a bit excessive to me.

-- 
Nick Hodges -- Product Development Manager
Gateway Ticketing Systems
http://www.gatewayticketing.com
0
Nick
11/17/2010 4:17:46 AM
On 11/16/2010 8:17 PM, Nick Hodges wrote:
> Chris Burrows wrote:
>
>> Do you own any voluntary insurance policies? If so, you should cancel
>> them if you don't worry about things that might happen ;-)
>
> I didn't say that one shouldn't worry about what might happen. One is
> free to do so.  However to say that something that /might/ happen feels
> like a noose around's one's neck seems a bit excessive to me.
>

It's NOT a false worry.  I have a number of programs that have become 
problematic over the years, for a variety of reasons, yet I still need 
to use them.

Sometimes it's due to failure of a hardware dongle, sometimes it's due 
to the company not supporting the product for newer OSes, sometimes 
they've gone out of business and their 'activation server' is down, etc.

For those still in business, it's sometime difficult to communicate with 
them (i.e., get a response), etc.

These are NOT false concerns, they are real.  Have they specifically hit 
Delphi yet?  No, but the Delphi protection schemes are very definitely 
heading in the direction of becoming problematic.

David Erbas-White

P.S. In the irony of ironies department, I recently tried to load an old 
program that required a parallel port hardware dongle that's about 
fifteen years old (I needed to look at an old file for that program, 
haven't loaded the program in years, etc.).  The dongle didn't work 
properly.  The irony?  I used to be the chief hardware engineer at the 
dongle company...
0
David
11/17/2010 4:53:49 AM
David Erbas-White wrote:

> The dongle didn't work 
> properly.  The irony?  I used to be the chief hardware engineer at
> the dongle company...

LOL!

I had a similar experience with an 8051 C compiler.  I was more than
happy with the version I was using so got a couple of major releases
behind the field.  Then I moved from Win 2K to Win XP and found that
they had changed dongle supplier at some point and there was no XP
driver for the old one.

In the end I had to get to the latest release and a new dongle.
Fortunately for me the UK distributor bargained with the supplier to
get it at the upgrade price for me even though I wasn't eligible.

-- 
Andy Syms
Technosoft Systems Ltd
0
Andy
11/17/2010 8:50:56 AM
Nick Hodges wrote:

> > It's more convenient to use a pirated version of delphi than a
> > "standard" licensed one
> 
> Only if there is one.

There always is.  :-(

-- 
Andy Syms
Technosoft Systems Ltd
0
Andy
11/17/2010 8:53:59 AM
Rick Carter wrote:

> > Produce activation hurts registered users when it brings up
> > barriers to use.
> 
> So now Embarcadero has started selling fruits and vegetables, and
> requires them to be activated too?
> 
> This is taking things too far!

LOL!

I had to read that three times before I noticed.  :-)

-- 
Andy Syms
Technosoft Systems Ltd
0
Andy
11/17/2010 8:54:48 AM
> {quote:title=Nick Hodges wrote:}{quote}
> Tarry Higgins wrote:
> 
> > Produce activation hurts registered users when it brings up barriers
> > to use.
> 
> Sorry, I'm confused, I thought we were talking about copy protection,
> not activation.  Did we switch somewhere...?
> 
> 

AFAIK we are talking about product activation from the start, unless
I am missing something ;-)

Dalija Prasnikar
0
Dalija
11/17/2010 10:23:26 AM
> {quote:title=Nick Hodges wrote:}{quote}
> Tony Bryer wrote:
> 
> > 
> > It's a very proper concern, surely?
> 
> Didn't say it wasn't -- just making the point.  The OP said "This was
> beginning to feel like a rope around my neck" and I wondered why.
> Point being, it now appears that this "rope" is coming not from
> anything tangible, but from what "might" happen.
> 

What might happen is very proper concern. People are thinking all the time
(some more, some less) about what might happen and take actions to prevent it.

Recent troubles with Update 1, even if not directly connected to activation, have
reminded me about possible problems. And it looks like you have forgotten 
Delphi 2010 Update 2, 3 fiasko.

So far I had no problem with Delphi activation. But I never liked it from the day one.
I am more enter registration key and be done with it person. Delphi 7 activation more
or less ok. You could install software and use it, you didn't have to activate it 
instantly. And that is a big difference from current activation scheme. You have to activate 
product before you can use it, there is no grace period. If for some reason
I have to reinstall Delphi and at the same time for some other reason activation
servers are down, I might be in big problems. 

Of course, chances are slim that I will have activation problems at the same time I need
to do some emergency fixup, but from my experience trouble never comes alone. 
I have been in situations when everything that could go wrong has gone wrong.
I could put my head in the sand and hope that there will be no problems, but 
responsible thing to do is to be prepared for all eventualities. 

And just because chances that something might happen are very small, that does not 
mean that it could not happen tomorrow.

Dalija Prasnikar
0
Dalija
11/17/2010 10:42:56 AM
> {quote:title=Nick Hodges wrote:}{quote}
> Tony Bryer wrote:
> 
> > 
> > It's a very proper concern, surely?
> 
> Didn't say it wasn't -- just making the point.  The OP said "This was
> beginning to feel like a rope around my neck" and I wondered why.
> Point being, it now appears that this "rope" is coming not from
> anything tangible, but from what "might" happen.
> 

Not beeing able to use product at all before it is activated is a very tangible thing.

Dalija Prasnikar
0
Dalija
11/17/2010 10:44:50 AM
> {quote:title=John Kaster wrote:}{quote}
> Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
> 
> > Embarcadero has zero days
> > for activation, you can either activate or look at unusable XXXX
> > dollars worth tool that pays your bills. Not very reassuring.
> 
> As Brad pointed out, it's 14 days, not 0 (zero).
> 

Than I have missed something, 14 days is not perfect but it 
should be OK in most situations. 

I would have to try to install it on another computer, but I as far
as I remember I could not start Delphi 2010 oe XE before I had it
activated.

Dalija Prasnikar
0
Dalija
11/17/2010 10:51:14 AM
David Erbas-White wrote:

> These are NOT false concerns, they are real.

Again, I didn't say that they weren't concerns.  I'm well aware of the
need for people to fret.

I merely pointed out that these are concerns, and that they haven't
happened yet.

-- 
Nick Hodges -- Product Development Manager
Gateway Ticketing Systems
http://www.gatewayticketing.com
0
Nick
11/17/2010 12:04:19 PM
> {quote:title=Nick Hodges wrote:}{quote}
> David Erbas-White wrote:
> 
> > These are NOT false concerns, they are real.
> 
> Again, I didn't say that they weren't concerns.  I'm well aware of the
> need for people to fret.
> 
> I merely pointed out that these are concerns, and that they haven't
> happened yet.
> 

Great, so if you find yourself in a situation where you might get killed
you shouldn't worry because you are not dead yet ;-)

Dalija Prasnikar
0
Dalija
11/17/2010 12:51:20 PM
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

> What might happen is very proper concern. People are thinking all the
> time (some more, some less) about what might happen and take actions
> to prevent it.

Again, never said it wasn't.  


> Recent troubles with Update 1, even if not directly connected to
> activation, have reminded me about possible problems. And it looks
> like you have forgotten Delphi 2010 Update 2, 3 fiasko.

I guess I have, as I don't recall them being fiascos.

And I thougth we were talking about copy protection....

If you are concerned about Activation, I can't recommend enough getting
the free licensing server.  Once you have that, you never have to worry
about anyone's server going dark except your own.

-- 
Nick Hodges -- Product Development Manager
Gateway Ticketing Systems
http://www.gatewayticketing.com
0
Nick
11/17/2010 1:02:43 PM
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

> 
> Not beeing able to use product at all before it is activated is a
> very tangible thing.

But it hasn't happened yet.


-- 
Nick Hodges -- Product Development Manager
Gateway Ticketing Systems
http://www.gatewayticketing.com
0
Nick
11/17/2010 1:03:08 PM
Nick Hodges wrote:

> If you are concerned about Activation, I can't recommend enough
> getting the free licensing server.  Once you have that, you never
> have to worry about anyone's server going dark except your own.

Do you talk about network licenses, which makes sense for bigger
companies, or is that something for every Delphi user?

Is that the following and does it help me to activate Delphi without
increasing the counter at Embarcadero?

Report No: 71001 (RAID: 271733)          Status: Open
Add the "off line" registration server to the installation media
http://qc.embarcadero.com/wc/qcmain.aspx?d=71001

If yes, I am wondering why at all the activation (counter) exist.
-- 
Uwe Schuster
http://www.bitcommander.de/blog
0
Uwe
11/17/2010 1:42:09 PM
> {quote:title=Nick Hodges wrote:}{quote}
> Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
> 
> > What might happen is very proper concern. People are thinking all the
> > time (some more, some less) about what might happen and take actions
> > to prevent it.
> 
> Again, never said it wasn't.  
> 

OK.

> 
> > Recent troubles with Update 1, even if not directly connected to
> > activation, have reminded me about possible problems. And it looks
> > like you have forgotten Delphi 2010 Update 2, 3 fiasko.
> 
> I guess I have, as I don't recall them being fiascos.
> 

If I recall correctly, it was pulled from distribution because people were 
having problems with activation. 

> And I thougth we were talking about copy protection....
> 
> If you are concerned about Activation, I can't recommend enough getting
> the free licensing server.  Once you have that, you never have to worry
> about anyone's server going dark except your own.
> 

Now I don't know what you are talking about.

Dalija Prasnikar
0
Dalija
11/17/2010 1:44:39 PM
> {quote:title=Nick Hodges wrote:}{quote}
> Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Not beeing able to use product at all before it is activated is a
> > very tangible thing.
> 
> But it hasn't happened yet.
> 
> 

Luckily, no. And if I was mistaken, and there is 14 days
activation window, that lowers my concerns. It changes
worst case scenario from "cannot use Delphi" to "have to 
reinstall it every 14 days".

Dalija Prasnikar
0
Dalija
11/17/2010 1:48:50 PM
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

> > {quote:title=Nick Hodges wrote:}{quote}
> > Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
> > 
> > > Not beeing able to use product at all before it is activated is a
> > > very tangible thing.
> > 
> > But it hasn't happened yet.
> 
> Luckily, no. And if I was mistaken, and there is 14 days
> activation window, that lowers my concerns. It changes
> worst case scenario from "cannot use Delphi" to "have to 
> reinstall it every 14 days".

Reinstalling Delphi does not reset it to 14 days.
-- 
Uwe Schuster
http://www.bitcommander.de/blog
0
Uwe
11/17/2010 1:55:59 PM
Nick Hodges wrote:

> Ian Hall wrote:
> 
> > You need to start thinking like a general, not like a lieutenant.
> 
> Why do I need to start thinking about this at all?

If you do not wish to talk about this topic with the people it
concerns, then fine, that's your call. It does make your intervention
more of a drive-by, along the lines of a "sucks to be you".


IMO, either you think this is a legitimate concern for other people,
but you are not concerned because it does not directly affect you, or
else you think that this is not a real problem, and people are just
overreacting / making things up.


I believe that you favour the latter option: is that correct?
0
Ian
11/17/2010 2:22:53 PM
> {quote:title=Uwe Schuster wrote:}{quote}
> Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
> 
> > > {quote:title=Nick Hodges wrote:}{quote}
> > > Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Not beeing able to use product at all before it is activated is a
> > > > very tangible thing.
> > > 
> > > But it hasn't happened yet.
> > 
> > Luckily, no. And if I was mistaken, and there is 14 days
> > activation window, that lowers my concerns. It changes
> > worst case scenario from "cannot use Delphi" to "have to 
> > reinstall it every 14 days".
> 
> Reinstalling Delphi does not reset it to 14 days.

No, but reinstalling Windows (on a clean hard) does :)

Dalija Prasnikar
0
Dalija
11/17/2010 2:36:39 PM
Nick Hodges expressed precisely :
> Chris Burrows wrote:
>
>> Do you own any voluntary insurance policies? If so, you should cancel
>> them if you don't worry about things that might happen ;-)
>
> I didn't say that one shouldn't worry about what might happen. One is
> free to do so.  However to say that something that /might/ happen feels
> like a noose around's one's neck seems a bit excessive to me.

Well, that is only one part of it.  There are other
requirements as well for it to feel like a noose.

Up to this point, "something that /might/ happen,"
it is only a rope.  It is when you realize that
a) it is attached to a tree (requirements that are
out of your reach and thus beyond your control;
b) your business livelyhood depends on things that
you have no control over continuing exactly as they
are.
c) you know that at any time the bottom could drop out
and you'd be in trouble.

OK, so some of the analogy doesn't work very well.
I'm sure others here can improve on it.

But the point is that we're just asking, "Can you
move your end of the rope so it isn't looped over
that tree?  It's making me nervous."

HTH,
Brad.

-- 
 


"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has 
endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us 
to forgo their use."
  -- Galileo Galilei
0
Brad
11/17/2010 2:51:16 PM
John Kaster wrote:

> Ian Hall wrote:
> 
> > There is no way I would have upgraded from D5 without using VMWare,
> > but now I would keep my development inside a VM even if activation
> > was completely removed from RAD Studio.
> 
> How do you use VMWare without activating it?

AFAIK, VMWare does not need activation. You get an activation code when
you buy it. I re-installed on a new PC using the code. If it was
dialling home to authorise itself then it did so quietly.

The next time I upgrade my PC I will disconnect from the internet
before installing VMWare, to make sure that no external servers are
required.

If I find out that VMWare requires activation a la EMBT, then I will
start searching for alternatives, although the relative importance /
financial position of VMWare makes this several orders of magnitude
less of a problem - the same reason that Windows Activation is a
non-issue.
0
Ian
11/17/2010 2:54:35 PM
Dalija Prasnikar explained :
> You could install software and use it, you didn't have to activate it
> instantly. And that is a big difference from current activation scheme. You 
> have to activate
> product before you can use it, there is no grace period.

Um, no.  I just installed D2010 and have 14 days to
activate it.

I agree with your general point, but saying there is
no grace period is just overblown hyperbola.

HTH,
Brad.

-- 
 


"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has 
endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us 
to forgo their use."
  -- Galileo Galilei
0
Brad
11/17/2010 2:55:32 PM
Nick Hodges presented the following explanation :
> Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
>
>> 
>> Not beeing able to use product at all before it is activated is a
>> very tangible thing.
>
> But it hasn't happened yet.

Having it happen (activation being unavailable) isn't
wat makes it into a noose.  That is what leaves you
dangling at the bottom of the rope.
It is the possibility of that happening (no available
activation mechanism that our business life blood depends
on) that makes it feel like a noose.

HTH,
Brad.

-- 
 


"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has 
endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us 
to forgo their use."
  -- Galileo Galilei
0
Brad
11/17/2010 3:00:12 PM
On 11/17/2010 4:04 AM, Nick Hodges wrote:
> David Erbas-White wrote:
>
>> These are NOT false concerns, they are real.
>
> Again, I didn't say that they weren't concerns.  I'm well aware of the
> need for people to fret.
>
> I merely pointed out that these are concerns, and that they haven't
> happened yet.
>

It depends on what you mean by 'yet'.

I've run into the problem of having reached my 'registration limit', but 
was able to go to the website and bump it, so there was no down time.

Now, that option has been removed.

Here's another CURRENT, real scenario.  My laptop crashed a few weeks 
back.  I haven't (yet) re-installed RAD Studio on it.  The problems are 
bad enough that I've ordered a new laptop, which will be here next week.

Last week, I had need of RAD Studio on my laptop.  However, due to the 
problems that have now cropped up with activation, and not knowing if 
EMB would allow me to again bump my registration twice within a couple 
of weeks (and frankly, presuming they won't, especially since they have 
not published any policies regarding the activation and support), I've 
elected not to use RAD Studio on my laptop in the interim.

This leads to some cases of my not using the product when I actually 
need it.  Which leads me to look for alternatives.  On of my 
alternatives, frankly, is to regress my code back to BCB 5/Delphi 5, and 
look for another vendor for future use.

What benefit has this provided to EMB?

David Erbas-White
0
David
11/17/2010 3:29:01 PM
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

> Great, so if you find yourself in a situation where you might get
> killed you shouldn't worry because you are not dead yet ;-)

I might get killed on my way to work this morning.  Yet, it hardly
crosses my mind.  ;-)

-- 
Nick Hodges -- Product Development Manager
Gateway Ticketing Systems
http://www.gatewayticketing.com
0
Nick
11/17/2010 3:36:12 PM
Brad White wrote:

> But the point is that we're just asking, "Can you
> move your end of the rope so it isn't looped over
> that tree?  It's making me nervous."

Ask away -- I myself am not at all worried about it for my team.  But I
certainly won't tell anyone else not to worry about if they care to.

-- 
Nick Hodges -- Product Development Manager
Gateway Ticketing Systems
http://www.gatewayticketing.com
0
Nick
11/17/2010 3:38:23 PM
Ian Hall wrote:

> 
> I believe that you favour the latter option: is that correct?

More or less, yes.  I personally don't have my underwear in a bundle
about it.  If you or anyone else wants to get worked up about it, knock
yourself out.  But that won't stop me from thinking that being that
being worked up about something that hasn't happened and doesn't appear
to me to be likely to happen is nothing more than  borrowing trouble.

But again, totally up to you.  Fret to your heart's content.

-- 
Nick Hodges -- Product Development Manager
Gateway Ticketing Systems
http://www.gatewayticketing.com
0
Nick
11/17/2010 3:40:58 PM
Uwe Schuster wrote:

> Do you talk about network licenses, which makes sense for bigger
> companies, or is that something for every Delphi user?

It doesn't have to be for bigger customers. It will work for a one man
shop, particularly if that one man shop is concerned about servers
going dark.



-- 
Nick Hodges -- Product Development Manager
Gateway Ticketing Systems
http://www.gatewayticketing.com
0
Nick
11/17/2010 3:42:07 PM
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

> 
> Now I don't know what you are talking about.

You can get the license server from EMBT for free, and run it yourself.
Never have to talk to an EMBT server ever again.

-- 
Nick Hodges -- Product Development Manager
Gateway Ticketing Systems
http://www.gatewayticketing.com
0
Nick
11/17/2010 3:42:53 PM
Brad White wrote:

> It is the possibility of that happening (no available
> activation mechanism that our business life blood depends
> on) that makes it feel like a noose.

Then get your own license server.  

-- 
Nick Hodges -- Product Development Manager
Gateway Ticketing Systems
http://www.gatewayticketing.com
0
Nick
11/17/2010 3:43:34 PM
Nick Hodges wrote:

> I might get killed on my way to work this morning.  Yet, it hardly
> crosses my mind.  ;-)

But it should cross your CEO's mind so that he can have a contingency
plan in place for such an event.  ;-)

-- 
Andy Syms
Technosoft Systems Ltd
0
Andy
11/17/2010 3:47:04 PM
On 11/17/2010 7:36 AM, Nick Hodges wrote:
> Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
>
>> Great, so if you find yourself in a situation where you might get
>> killed you shouldn't worry because you are not dead yet ;-)
>
> I might get killed on my way to work this morning.  Yet, it hardly
> crosses my mind.  ;-)
>


Not being facetious (for once) Nick, but having nearly BEEN killed while 
driving home from work many years ago, it's something that crosses my 
mind quite often.  Yes, maybe I'm now a bit more paranoid than most 
about defensive driving now, but I'd argue I'm a better driver because 
of it.

In the same fashion, those of us who have had the experience of not 
being able to easily (or at all) re-install and activate software really 
are trying to do our best to not repeat the experience.

Just because you, personally, haven't experienced near-death while 
driving to work, or had problems with software activation schemes, does 
NOT mean it isn't a very legitimate concern for others.  What shocks me 
most about all of this is that in your previous position with EMB, I 
would have thought that message had gotten across to you from EMB 
customers.  I would have even gone so far as to have hoped that those 
concerns would have in some fashion made their way into the decision 
process used by EMB.  It now seems (based on your statements/attitudes) 
that the customer concerns really aren't of any import to EMB, and 
frankly that's another datum in the customer's decision process.

David Erbas-White
0
David
11/17/2010 3:50:25 PM
Nick Hodges wrote:

> I merely pointed out that these are concerns, and that they haven't
> happened yet.

So we must stay quiet and wait it happen?
0
Cesar
11/17/2010 3:51:06 PM
David Erbas-White wrote:

> Just because you, personally, haven't experienced near-death while 
> driving to work, or had problems with software activation schemes,
> does NOT mean it isn't a very legitimate concern for others. 

Yet again, I will say that I completely, utterly and totally
acknowledge this.


> It now seems (based on your statements/attitudes) 
> that the customer concerns really aren't of any import to EMB, and 
> frankly that's another datum in the customer's decision process.

To be clear, my statements and attitudes have nothing to do with
EMBT's, so I would recommend against making judgements about them based
on my statements here.

-- 
Nick Hodges -- Product Development Manager
Gateway Ticketing Systems
http://www.gatewayticketing.com
0
Nick
11/17/2010 3:52:38 PM
Nick Hodges wrote:

> > Now I don't know what you are talking about.
> 
> You can get the license server from EMBT for free, and run it
> yourself.  Never have to talk to an EMBT server ever again.

How do I get license server?
Can you please post the URL?
0
Cesar
11/17/2010 3:57:33 PM
Nick Hodges wrote on 11/17/2010 :
> Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
>
>> 
>> Now I don't know what you are talking about.
>
> You can get the license server from EMBT for free, and run it yourself.
> Never have to talk to an EMBT server ever again.

I've never heard of this.
If this is really a legitimate option, then
this whole concern should have gone away long
ago.

Do you have any links or articles about this?

Thanks,
Brad.

-- 
 


"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has 
endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us 
to forgo their use."
  -- Galileo Galilei
0
Brad
11/17/2010 4:02:20 PM
Brad White wrote:

> Do you have any links or articles about this?

http://support.embarcadero.com/article/36588

-- 
Andy Syms
Technosoft Systems Ltd
0
Andy
11/17/2010 4:05:39 PM
Cesar Romero wrote:

> How do I get license server?
> Can you please post the URL?

http://license.codegear.com/lservers/elise.jsp

-- 
Andy Syms
Technosoft Systems Ltd
0
Andy
11/17/2010 4:08:01 PM
After serious thinking Andy Syms wrote :
> Brad White wrote:
>
>> Do you have any links or articles about this?
>
> http://support.embarcadero.com/article/36588

Very interesting.

Anyone using this and can give an experience report?

Thanks,
Brad.

-- 
 


"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has 
endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us 
to forgo their use."
  -- Galileo Galilei
0
Brad
11/17/2010 4:16:46 PM
Brad White formulated on Wednesday :
> After serious thinking Andy Syms wrote :
>> Brad White wrote:
>> 
>>> Do you have any links or articles about this?
>> 
>> http://support.embarcadero.com/article/36588
>
> Very interesting.
>
> Anyone using this and can give an experience report?
>
> Thanks,
> Brad.

Never mind.
I'm going to promote this to its own thread.

Thanks,
Brad.

-- 
 


"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has 
endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us 
to forgo their use."
  -- Galileo Galilei
0
Brad
11/17/2010 4:17:46 PM
> {quote:title=Brad White wrote:}{quote}
> Dalija Prasnikar explained :
> > You could install software and use it, you didn't have to activate it
> > instantly. And that is a big difference from current activation scheme. You 
> > have to activate
> > product before you can use it, there is no grace period.
> 
> Um, no.  I just installed D2010 and have 14 days to
> activate it.
> 
> I agree with your general point, but saying there is
> no grace period is just overblown hyperbola.
> 

That was a mistake on my part, I don't know how I got it, but
I had misconception that Delphi had to be activated from the start. 
Having 14 days changes things a lot, at least for me.

Dalija Prasnikar
0
Dalija
11/17/2010 4:23:51 PM
Nick Hodges wrote:

> Ian Hall wrote:
> 
> > 
> > I believe that you favour the latter option: is that correct?
> 
> More or less, yes.  I personally don't have my underwear in a bundle
> about it.  If you or anyone else wants to get worked up about it,
> knock yourself out.  But that won't stop me from thinking that being
> that being worked up about something that hasn't happened and doesn't
> appear to me to be likely to happen is nothing more than  borrowing
> trouble.

Let's break it down further: do you think that any concern about
activation as it stands today is justified, or just made up?

If you can acknowledge that people have legitimate concerns with
CURRENT activation policy, then such people considering where the
policy may go in the future is a complete waste of time?

Your position seems to be to just trust that EMBT will not change
strategy in a damaging fashion. I think that would be - at best -
naieve.

The same sort of thinking would have burnt people many times over: CBX,
Delphi.NET etc.
 
> But again, totally up to you.  Fret to your heart's content.

If you think that avoiding sales warranties and protecting against
critical supplier loss is fretting, then I will fret to my heart's
content: it is what I am paid to do.


If you do not have an understanding of how these issues can affect your
asset base, and a contingency plan with known trigger points, then IMO
you are failing in your duty to shareholders. This may or may not be a
concern for someone at your position in a company, but is NOT optional
for somebody with personal liability.

I have my fallback plans in place: discussing things here is no big
deal, and may at least raise the issue to an extent that EMBT can
better appreciate what the consequences of certain policy changes may
be. It is easier to try and prevent changes from occurring beforehand,
than asking them to acknowledge an error afterwards.
0
Ian
11/17/2010 5:43:31 PM
Ian Hall wrote:

> AFAIK, VMWare does not need activation

Thanks, Dennis already mentioned that. I must have mis-remembered my
experience when installing it.

-- 
John Kaster http://blogs.embarcadero.com/johnk
Embarcadero Developer Network: http://edn.embarcadero.com
Features and bugs: http://qc.embarcadero.com
Got source?  http://cc.embarcadero.com
0
John
11/17/2010 5:48:14 PM
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

> I would have to try to install it on another computer, but I as far
> as I remember I could not start Delphi 2010 oe XE before I had it
> activated.

I know there has been a grace period in place for quite some time.
Unfortunately, that's not something I've really paid attention to so I
can't speak authoritatively about it.

-- 
John Kaster http://blogs.embarcadero.com/johnk
Embarcadero Developer Network: http://edn.embarcadero.com
Features and bugs: http://qc.embarcadero.com
Got source?  http://cc.embarcadero.com
0
John
11/17/2010 5:49:17 PM
Dalija,

On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 16:23:51 -0000, Dalija Prasnikar  wrote:

> That was a mistake on my part, I don't know how I got it, but
> I had misconception that Delphi had to be activated from the start.
> Having 14 days changes things a lot, at least for me.

While you as a developer may be prepared to contemplating nuking your hard  
disk and reinstalling Windows and Delphi every 14 days, I doubt that it  
would convince anyone to buy the software product/service you are  
producing with Delphi.

Particularly if they want reassurance that they will be able to modify the  
software - at any time in the future - to cater for changing requirements.

-- 
Paul Scott
Information Management Systems
Macclesfield, UK
0
Paul
11/17/2010 5:50:58 PM
Nick Hodges wrote:

> So we are back to worrying about things that might happen.  ;-)

	Isn't that what developers /do?/ Seriously, I get paid for that! :)

-- 
Craig Stuntz · Vertex Systems Corp. · Columbus, OH
Delphi/InterBase Weblog : http://blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz/
0
Craig
11/17/2010 6:17:13 PM
On 11/17/2010 10:17 AM, Craig Stuntz wrote:
> Nick Hodges wrote:
>
>> So we are back to worrying about things that might happen.  ;-)
>
> 	Isn't that what developers /do?/ Seriously, I get paid for that! :)
>

Apparently not.  Everyone, please remove all of your 
error-checking/handling code immediately!

David Erbas-White
0
David
11/17/2010 6:28:31 PM
Am 17.11.2010 14:42, schrieb Uwe Schuster:
> Nick Hodges wrote:
> 
>> If you are concerned about Activation, I can't recommend enough
>> getting the free licensing server.  Once you have that, you never
>> have to worry about anyone's server going dark except your own.
> 
> Do you talk about network licenses, which makes sense for bigger
> companies, or is that something for every Delphi user?
> 
> Is that the following and does it help me to activate Delphi without
> increasing the counter at Embarcadero?
> 
> Report No: 71001 (RAID: 271733)          Status: Open
> Add the "off line" registration server to the installation media
> http://qc.embarcadero.com/wc/qcmain.aspx?d=71001
> 
> If yes, I am wondering why at all the activation (counter) exist.

Hello,

thanks for digging out my QC report about this. I once asked them why
they don't do that because it seemed simple to me: add a few files on a
DVD and maybe put a link in the setup launcher, something every
developer should be able to do, but they refused. The argument was, that
it's not polished enough yet for that purpose. Oh? But it's polished
enough to be distributed on request? How's that?
And: does the current installer contain any information about the
availability of such a thing? If not I should buy shares of EMBT go to
the next annual stockholders meeting and ask why EMBT wastes my money by
building stuff which isn't released and which nobody knows?

Greetings

Markus
0
Markus
11/17/2010 7:14:19 PM
> {quote:title=Paul Scott wrote:}{quote}
> Dalija,
> 
> On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 16:23:51 -0000, Dalija Prasnikar  wrote:
> 
> > That was a mistake on my part, I don't know how I got it, but
> > I had misconception that Delphi had to be activated from the start.
> > Having 14 days changes things a lot, at least for me.
> 
> While you as a developer may be prepared to contemplating nuking your hard  
> disk and reinstalling Windows and Delphi every 14 days, I doubt that it  
> would convince anyone to buy the software product/service you are  
> producing with Delphi.
> 

It is not something I would enjoy doing, but in a case of emergency it is 
doable, I can be up and running in 3 hours max, at any given time. 

Chances that I would really need something like that are very slim,
and 14 days should be enough to succesfully activate Delphi. And in case 
of "Delphi is dead" scenario, nuking hards and reinstalling would buy me enough
time to search for other options.

> Particularly if they want reassurance that they will be able to modify the  
> software - at any time in the future - to cater for changing requirements.
> 

I write desktop applications, no databases, no critical software. So I don't have
to offer any assurances. 

Dalija Prasnikar
0
Dalija
11/17/2010 8:59:16 PM
In article <306437@forums.embarcadero.com>, Nick Hodges wrote:
> I might get killed on my way to work this morning.  Yet, it hardly
> crosses my mind.  ;-)

It did cross my mind which is why there is a piece of paper in my desk 
drawer that contains a whole load of useful information (probably not 
enough) relating to my [one-person] business just in case I end up dead 
or incapacitated.

-- 
Tony Bryer, Greentram Software Pty Ltd, Melbourne, Australia
'Software to build on'  http://www.greentram.com
0
Tony
11/18/2010 7:06:37 AM
On 11/17/2010 11:06 PM, Tony Bryer wrote:
> In article<306437@forums.embarcadero.com>, Nick Hodges wrote:
>> I might get killed on my way to work this morning.  Yet, it hardly
>> crosses my mind.  ;-)
>
> It did cross my mind which is why there is a piece of paper in my desk
> drawer that contains a whole load of useful information (probably not
> enough) relating to my [one-person] business just in case I end up dead
> or incapacitated.
>

Or like "Memento" or "50 First Dates"... <G>

David Erbas-White
0
David
11/18/2010 8:26:06 AM
Dalija Prasnikar wrote:

>Compiling speed is almost doubled in this update :)

Now thats what i call interesting!
0
Marius
11/18/2010 9:20:38 AM
Cesar Romero wrote:

> 
> So we must stay quiet and wait it happen?

Yes, you must, Cesar.  I'm a total advocate of not providing feedback
to EMBT.

Come on.......

-- 
Nick Hodges -- Product Development Manager
Gateway Ticketing Systems
http://www.gatewayticketing.com
0
Nick
11/18/2010 12:38:24 PM
Craig Stuntz wrote:

> 	Isn't that what developers /do?/ Seriously, I get paid for that! :)

Apparently so.  ;-)

-- 
Nick Hodges -- Product Development Manager
Gateway Ticketing Systems
http://www.gatewayticketing.com
0
Nick
11/18/2010 12:38:44 PM
Ian Hall wrote:

> Let's break it down further: do you think that any concern about
> activation as it stands today is justified, or just made up?

I think that everyone should have the exact amount of concern about it
that they want to have.

> Your position seems to be to just trust that EMBT will not change
> strategy in a damaging fashion. I think that would be - at best -
> naieve.

My position is that I understand and accept the situation as it is.  I
know why it is the way it is, and I'm fine with it.  I'm not that
concerned about where it might go in the future, because I know that no
matter where it goes, I'll be fine.


> I have my fallback plans in place: discussing things here is no big
> deal, and may at least raise the issue to an extent that EMBT can
> better appreciate what the consequences of certain policy changes may
> be. It is easier to try and prevent changes from occurring beforehand,
> than asking them to acknowledge an error afterwards.

As I believe I've said about 300 times, now:  That's great, I totally
respect that.  I'm not sure why me being less concerned about it than
you appear to be is a reason to think that I'm somehow trying to argue
with you about it.

-- 
Nick Hodges -- Product Development Manager
Gateway Ticketing Systems
http://www.gatewayticketing.com
0
Nick
11/18/2010 12:43:04 PM
Cesar Romero wrote:

> 
> How do I get license server?
> Can you please post the URL?

The next time you buy a license, tell them that you want it.

-- 
Nick Hodges -- Product Development Manager
Gateway Ticketing Systems
http://www.gatewayticketing.com
0
Nick
11/18/2010 12:43:33 PM
Brad White wrote:

> I've never heard of this.
> If this is really a legitimate option, then
> this whole concern should have gone away long
> ago.
> 
> Do you have any links or articles about this?

I don't -- but you can contact EMBT about it.

-- 
Nick Hodges -- Product Development Manager
Gateway Ticketing Systems
http://www.gatewayticketing.com
0
Nick
11/18/2010 12:43:53 PM
> {quote:title=Nick Hodges wrote:}{quote}
> Dalija Prasnikar wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Now I don't know what you are talking about.
> 
> You can get the license server from EMBT for free, and run it yourself.
> Never have to talk to an EMBT server ever again.
> 

Thanks, I have looked at it but it really doesn't solve the initial
problem. In the meantime I have found out that Delphi offers 14 
days activation period that should be enough in most situations.
It doesn't solve "Delphi is dead" scenario, but if that happens I'll 
have bigger problems than activation itself.

Dalija Prasnikar
0
Dalija
11/18/2010 12:50:58 PM
Nick Hodges wrote:

> > How do I get license server?
> > Can you please post the URL?
> 
> The next time you buy a license, tell them that you want it.

Ok, I looked at links posted here and it seems even worse than the
default activation process.
0
Cesar
11/18/2010 12:56:15 PM
Cesar Romero wrote:

> Ok, I looked at links posted here and it seems even worse than the
> default activation process.

That's up to you -- for me, it's vastly superior.  Everybody's
different.

-- 
Nick Hodges -- Product Development Manager
Gateway Ticketing Systems
http://www.gatewayticketing.com
0
Nick
11/18/2010 1:01:26 PM
Nick Hodges wrote:

> Ian Hall wrote:
> 
> > Let's break it down further: do you think that any concern about
> > activation as it stands today is justified, or just made up?
> 
> I think that everyone should have the exact amount of concern about it
> that they want to have.

So my level of concern is something I just want to have, and it is a
personal freedom issue???

Activation is a real concern. It affects due diligence negotiations.
This is not a choice I am making, it is a business issue.


Instead of engaging on an issue, and telling me why I am wrong, or
conceding a point and replying with a counter-point, your actual point
is that I am free to believe what I want to? Passionate libertarian
that I am, that is just a non-sequiteur.


Please: you tell me what I am supposed to say to a lawyer who asks for
proof that the development path is secure in the event of supplier
failure. Just saying that "Nick is relaxed about it" is not really an
option. Telling them that it is not really an issue, that it is not
going to happen, is pointless. Their objective is to lower the price of
the assets that their clients are purchasing, not speculate about the
intentions of EMBT or their successors.


> > Your position seems to be to just trust that EMBT will not change
> > strategy in a damaging fashion. I think that would be - at best -
> > naieve.
> 
> My position is that I understand and accept the situation as it is.  I
> know why it is the way it is, and I'm fine with it.  I'm not that
> concerned about where it might go in the future, because I know that
> no matter where it goes, I'll be fine.

You have inside information from your previous employment. Care to
share it so that I can be relaxed as well?....I guess not.

> 
> > I have my fallback plans in place: discussing things here is no big
> > deal, and may at least raise the issue to an extent that EMBT can
> > better appreciate what the consequences of certain policy changes
> > may be. It is easier to try and prevent changes from occurring
> > beforehand, than asking them to acknowledge an error afterwards.
> 
> As I believe I've said about 300 times, now:  That's great, I totally
> respect that.  I'm not sure why me being less concerned about it than
> you appear to be is a reason to think that I'm somehow trying to argue
> with you about it.

Your version of "totally respect" appears to consist of thinking that
I, and others who are concerned, just "have our underwear in a bundle",
and that being concerned about this issue is just a state of mind, as
opposed to a concrete reality.

Your original question to me asked if I was "just worried about what
might happen". If you weren't really interested in the issue in the
first place, then why ask?
0
Ian
11/18/2010 1:34:08 PM
Nick Hodges wrote:

> > Ok, I looked at links posted here and it seems even worse than the
> > default activation process.
> 
> That's up to you -- for me, it's vastly superior.  Everybody's
> different.

You mean technologically supperior? 

The worse I mean is:
It do not solve any of my concerns, the problem is not now, it is about
future, when I need to replace my server hadware and ask Embarcadero to
change it.
I'm not inside USA, Embarcadero seems to not even care about sell in
Brazil. To buy here the customers have to be patient, wait a lot, is
not possible to buy online and have almost zero support from the local
reseller.
0
Cesar
11/18/2010 1:40:38 PM
Ian Hall wrote:

> So my level of concern is something I just want to have, and it is a
> personal freedom issue???

Ian -- I really don't know what it is that is bothering you here -- be
as concerned as you want.

> Activation is a real concern. It affects due diligence negotiations.
> This is not a choice I am making, it is a business issue.

Yeah, I know.

> Instead of engaging on an issue, and telling me why I am wrong, or
> conceding a point and replying with a counter-point, your actual point
> is that I am free to believe what I want to? Passionate libertarian
> that I am, that is just a non-sequiteur.

Ian -- I'm not sure why I have to "engage" you or concede anything --
tell me what to concede and I'll gladlyl do so.  You seem upset and
bothered by something, but I'm not sure what.


> Please: you tell me what I am supposed to say to a lawyer who asks for
> proof that the development path is secure in the event of supplier
> failure. 

You can say whatever you need to say -- it's really not up to me to
determine that.

> You have inside information from your previous employment. Care to
> share it so that I can be relaxed as well?....I guess not.

No, I'm just not as worried about it as you appear to be.


> Your version of "totally respect" appears to consist of thinking that
> I, and others who are concerned, just "have our underwear in a
> bundle", and that being concerned about this issue is just a state of
> mind, as opposed to a concrete reality.

Sorry, you are wrong on that -- I'm quite aware that it's concrete
reality.

> Your original question to me asked if I was "just worried about what
> might happen". If you weren't really interested in the issue in the
> first place, then why ask?

I got an answer to my question -- it appears that you are more worried
about what /might/ happen than what /does/ happen.  I'm not sure that
asking this question and then getting an answer puts me under some sort
of obligation to you to argue about it or something similar.



-- 
Nick Hodges -- Product Development Manager
Gateway Ticketing Systems
http://www.gatewayticketing.com
0
Nick
11/18/2010 2:01:58 PM
Cesar Romero wrote:

> You mean technologically supperior? 

I mean that it is a more effective and efficient way for us to manage
our Delphi licenses.


> It do not solve any of my concerns, the problem is not now, it is
> about future, when I need to replace my server hadware and ask
> Embarcadero to change it.
> I'm not inside USA, Embarcadero seems to not even care about sell in
> Brazil. To buy here the customers have to be patient, wait a lot, is
> not possible to buy online and have almost zero support from the local
> reseller.

Then I'd suggest that you carefully consider what it is you want to do
and how you are going to manage your Delphi licenses.  If the license
server isn't something that would work for you, then I'd strongly
recommend not using it.  Totally up to you.

-- 
Nick Hodges -- Product Development Manager
Gateway Ticketing Systems
http://www.gatewayticketing.com
0
Nick
11/18/2010 2:04:05 PM
Nick Hodges wrote:

> Ian Hall wrote:
> 
> > So my level of concern is something I just want to have, and it is a
> > personal freedom issue???
> 
> Ian -- I really don't know what it is that is bothering you here -- be
> as concerned as you want.

I am struggling to understand precisely what you are trying to achieve.
Is your advice/permission to "be as concerned as you want" supposed to
help in some way?

 
> > Activation is a real concern. It affects due diligence negotiations.
> > This is not a choice I am making, it is a business issue.
> 
> Yeah, I know.

Now you just threw me: this is not the impression I have received so
far. It also amplifies my confusion: if you accept that this is a real
issue with concrete financial impacts on some customers, then how
precisely is my level of concern just a matter of choice? Is the
financial/commercial downside which you have now acknowledged NOT
supposed to concern me?


> > Instead of engaging on an issue, and telling me why I am wrong, or
> > conceding a point and replying with a counter-point, your actual
> > point is that I am free to believe what I want to? Passionate
> > libertarian that I am, that is just a non-sequiteur.
> 
> Ian -- I'm not sure why I have to "engage" you or concede anything --
> tell me what to concede and I'll gladlyl do so.  You seem upset and
> bothered by something, but I'm not sure what.


I have a problem with current activation policy. You (now) acknowledge
that this is a real issue, although you refer to this problem in fairly
offhand, dismissive terms.

So let's progress: if this is a real problem, is any level of concern
about it justified? How much money should be at risk before my
underwear is allowed to get involved?


> 
> > Please: you tell me what I am supposed to say to a lawyer who asks
> > for proof that the development path is secure in the event of
> > supplier failure. 
> 
> You can say whatever you need to say -- it's really not up to me to
> determine that.

Your apparent dismissal of the problem suggests to me that you are only
not concerned with the issue because you have not encountered it
personally. Therefore I wonder what your response would be in that
situation. I take your non-answer to mean that you don't really accept
the legitimacy of the problem.

 
> > You have inside information from your previous employment. Care to
> > share it so that I can be relaxed as well?....I guess not.
> 
> No, I'm just not as worried about it as you appear to be.

As I have explained before, I have a legal obligation to understand the
ramifications of this policy towards my business. You say that this is
a real problem; if I fail to address this real problem, then I am
personally liable for the consequences. Yet you choose to characterise
this as some sort of whim that I am only choosing to indulge. That just
grates a bit. I also presume that you are not just taking the
proverbial.

> 
> > Your version of "totally respect" appears to consist of thinking
> > that I, and others who are concerned, just "have our underwear in a
> > bundle", and that being concerned about this issue is just a state
> > of mind, as opposed to a concrete reality.
> 
> Sorry, you are wrong on that -- I'm quite aware that it's concrete
> reality.

Like I said, this is surprising.
 
> > Your original question to me asked if I was "just worried about what
> > might happen". If you weren't really interested in the issue in the
> > first place, then why ask?
> 
> I got an answer to my question -- it appears that you are more worried
> about what might happen than what does happen.  I'm not sure that
> asking this question and then getting an answer puts me under some
> sort of obligation to you to argue about it or something similar.

I am NOT more worried about what might happen; the existing situation
causes real difficulties, as you have now acknowledged. Speculating
about the possible negative enhancements that could be made to
activation policy is just an extension of this. We have discovered that
you do not see this as relevant for you; I accept that. My legal
obligations dictate that we must differ on this point. I would hope
that you accept this as a realistic stance; instead, I believe that you
continue to characterise this as fantasy/weak-minded negativity.

Perhaps years of fending off the Delphi-is-doomed meme make you
unreceptive to legitimate negative concerns?


Having been given a reasonable answer, and not being able to respond
with constructive advice, I would suggest that your initial attempt to
characterise the situation as just an overreaction is simply incorrect.
0
Ian
11/18/2010 4:11:12 PM
"Nick Hodges" <nick@nickhodges.com> wrote in message 
news:306775@forums.embarcadero.com...
>
> know why it is the way it is, and I'm fine with it.  I'm not that
> concerned about where it might go in the future, because I know that no
> matter where it goes, I'll be fine.
>

Any chance that's because you have "privileged" access in some fashion that 
does not require activation, or you have no qualms about using "cracked" 
product in such cases?

Or, are you perhaps moving in a direction that will no longer have 
dependence on the currently discussed product?

> -- 
> Nick Hodges -- Product Development Manager
> Gateway Ticketing Systems
> http://www.gatewayticketing.com
0
david
11/18/2010 4:23:03 PM
It happens that david hoke formulated :
> "Nick Hodges" <nick@nickhodges.com> wrote in message 
> news:306775@forums.embarcadero.com...
>>
>> know why it is the way it is, and I'm fine with it.  I'm not that
>> concerned about where it might go in the future, because I know that no
>> matter where it goes, I'll be fine.
>>
>
> Any chance that's because you have "privileged" access in some fashion that 
> does not require activation, or you have no qualms about using "cracked" 
> product in such cases?
>
You know, that is a good point.
If the license servers go dark and we can't install
a new licensed version, the cracked versions will
still be available, and viable since EMBT is probably
no longer providing the product.

At a minimum, it could get you by until the problem
was rectified.

HTH,
Brad.

-- 
 


"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has 
endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us 
to forgo their use."
  -- Galileo Galilei
0
Brad
11/18/2010 5:36:59 PM
Hello,

hm, why not ask those lawyers if they have investzigated this in the
buying company already. Means: are you save when the buyer finally
boguht you, or did they perhaps invest in a even riskier development path?

If the lawyers can't answer this one they don't deserve to ask for this
information from the company to be bought.

Greetings

Markus
0
Markus
11/18/2010 6:28:59 PM
On Thu, 18 Nov 2010 18:28:59 -0000, Markus Humm <markus.humm@freenet.de>  
wrote:

> hm, why not ask those lawyers if they have investzigated this in the
> buying company already. Means: are you save when the buyer finally
> boguht you, or did they perhaps invest in a even riskier development  
> path?
> If the lawyers can't answer this one they don't deserve to ask for this
> information from the company to be bought.

That would be a great idea - IF the lawyers were independent  
intermediaries, impartially negotiating the best agreement for both sides.

But unfortunately they work for the buyer, acting solely in /his/  
interests. They do not have to justify anything to the seller, nor answer  
any of his questions - especially those you suggest.

Their job is to identify /anything/ which might possibly go wrong with  
this purchase within its estimated lifetime - and anything they do find  
can, and will, be used to lever down the purchase price their client will  
be prepared to offer.

I don't understand why some people seem to have such difficulty in even  
understanding that there is a problem. Even if they have not been involved  
in a due-diligence process, haven't they ever bought a house?

And did they just hand over the asking price or did they employ a surveyor  
to undertake a detailed investigation of the building and a lawyer to go  
through the deeds?

And if either the surveyor or the lawyer found a problem, were they happy  
to accept the vendor's assurance: "Oh, that roof/wall/floor will probably  
be all right" and still pay the full amount?

Or did they use the report to reduce the amount they were willing to pay?   
Or even walk away from the deal altogether?

-- 
Paul Scott
Information Management Systems
Macclesfield, UK
0
Paul
11/18/2010 8:06:57 PM
Ian Hall wrote:

> I am struggling to understand precisely what you are trying to
> achieve.

I'm not sure I'm trying to "achieve" anything.

And I'm not sure why you care so much what I think. ;-)

-- 
Nick Hodges -- Product Development Manager
Gateway Ticketing Systems
http://www.gatewayticketing.com
0
Nick
11/18/2010 11:52:35 PM
david hoke wrote:

> 
> Any chance that's because you have "privileged" access in some
> fashion that does not require activation, or you have no qualms about
> using "cracked" product in such cases?

No, no chance.  And no, I don't use cracks


> 
> Or, are you perhaps moving in a direction that will no longer have
> dependence on the currently discussed product?

No, we are totally committed to Delphi.



-- 
Nick Hodges -- Product Development Manager
Gateway Ticketing Systems
http://www.gatewayticketing.com
0
Nick
11/18/2010 11:53:28 PM
> {quote:title=david hoke wrote:}{quote}
> 
> Any chance that's because you have "privileged" access in some fashion that 
> does not require activation, or you have no qualms about using "cracked" 
> product in such cases?
> 

My guess is that he understands how the activation actually works so does not have the fear of the unknown that others have.
0
Chris
11/19/2010 12:19:33 AM
Paul Scott wrote:

> I don't understand why some people seem to have such difficulty in
> even understanding that there is a problem. Even if they have not
> been involved in a due-diligence process, haven't they ever bought a
> house?
> 
> And did they just hand over the asking price or did they employ a
> surveyor to undertake a detailed investigation of the building and a
> lawyer to go through the deeds?
> 
> And if either the surveyor or the lawyer found a problem, were they
> happy to accept the vendor's assurance: "Oh, that roof/wall/floor
> will probably be all right" and still pay the full amount?
> 
> Or did they use the report to reduce the amount they were willing to
> pay?  Or even walk away from the deal altogether?


Good analogy - I'm miffed that I did not think of it myself.
0
Ian
11/19/2010 9:20:01 AM
Nick Hodges wrote:

> Ian Hall wrote:
> 
> > I am struggling to understand precisely what you are trying to
> > achieve.
> 
> I'm not sure I'm trying to "achieve" anything.

Ahh, ok - it was just a drive-by. I thought you were asking genuine
questions out of interest. My bad.
 
> And I'm not sure why you care so much what I think. ;-)

If you are interested, I care, because then I can test my reasoning
aganst a different viewpoint; I might learn something. If you aren't
interested in discussing things, then my interest in your contribution
is a bit reduced ;-)
0
Ian
11/19/2010 1:22:31 PM
Ian Hall wrote:

> Ahh, ok - it was just a drive-by. I thought you were asking genuine
> questions out of interest. My bad.

I am genuinely interested in why someone would be so concerned about
it.  I admit to not being all that interested in having a argument with
you about it.  ;-)

-- 
Nick Hodges -- Product Development Manager
Gateway Ticketing Systems
http://www.gatewayticketing.com
0
Nick
11/19/2010 1:50:26 PM
Nick Hodges wrote:

> Ian Hall wrote:
> 
> > Ahh, ok - it was just a drive-by. I thought you were asking genuine
> > questions out of interest. My bad.
> 
> I am genuinely interested in why someone would be so concerned about
> it.  I admit to not being all that interested in having a argument
> with you about it.  ;-)


Congratulations on successfully hiding your genuine interest ;-)

I think you made your point - which I would paraphrase as "this is all
overblown nonsense from a bunch of bedwetters" - and that was about it.

Now I need to go and change my sheets.
0
Ian
11/19/2010 2:03:36 PM
Hello,

yes it can be a problem. I agree with you.
But has anybody asked that stability question in a due dilligence case
yet when not only the lawyers of the buyer but the buyers themselves
were present? Maybe this would get them spinning their head a bit...

Greetings

Markus
0
Markus
11/19/2010 6:18:41 PM
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:

> Jennifer-Ashley Kuiper wrote:
> 
> > There is no such thing as the beautiful German language. It is
> > regarded a throat disease. :-)) Now, the Dutch language however...
> 
> With the sharp G spoken in the Netherlands, most non-Dutch people I
> know consider Dutch to be a throat disease. <g>

Grrr :)

-- 
Pieter

"Except as its clown and jester, society does not encourage
 individuality, and the State abhors it."
 -- Bernard Berenson
0
Pieter
11/20/2010 11:21:01 PM
Pieter Zijlstra wrote:

> Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
> 
> > Jennifer-Ashley Kuiper wrote:
> > 
> > > There is no such thing as the beautiful German language. It is
> > > regarded a throat disease. :-)) Now, the Dutch language however...
> > 
> > With the sharp G spoken in the Netherlands, most non-Dutch people I
> > know consider Dutch to be a throat disease. <g>
> 
> Grrr :)

Exactly. My wife says that Dutch sounds like a constant clearing of the
throat. <g>

-- 
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)        http://www.teamb.com

Action's Law: Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts 
absolutely.
0
Rudy
11/22/2010 12:56:25 AM
Rudy,

| Exactly. My wife says that Dutch sounds like a constant clearing of
| the throat. <g>

LOL!

Like pronouncing van Gogh, eh?  ;-)

Or my wife's sister's name:  Aggi.

After 22 years I have those two words down pretty well. <g> 


-- 

   Q

11/21/2010 19:16:53

XanaNews Version 1.19.1.278  [Q'sBrokenToolBar]
0
Quentin
11/22/2010 3:19:15 AM
Pieter Zijlstra wrote:

> Grrr :)

Ger is not subscribed to this group.  :-(

-- 
Andy Syms
Technosoft Systems Ltd
0
Andy
11/22/2010 10:08:58 AM
Reply:

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