Delphi support for Windows Phone - progress report?

Hi,

It's a while since I last enquired about Delphi support for Windows Phone. At the time development was said to be on hold on account of "Microsoft's dirty little secret". As there appears to be general convergence of Windows across all devices in Windows 10, is there any progress in this direction?
I have a Windows phone and would like to program it using Delphi!

EM
0
Enquiring
7/14/2015 10:38:49 AM
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On 07/14/2015 05:38 AM, Enquiring Mind wrote:
> It's a while since I last enquired about Delphi support for Windows Phone. At the time development was said to be on hold on account of "Microsoft's dirty little secret". As there appears to be general convergence of Windows across all devices in Windows 10, is there any progress in this direction?
> I have a Windows phone and would like to program it using Delphi!

You'll have to find many more of you before that happens. Windows Phone market is very 
small.
0
Kyle
7/14/2015 4:04:39 PM
Enquiring wrote:

> It's a while since I last enquired about Delphi support for Windows
> Phone. At the time development was said to be on hold on account
> of "Microsoft's dirty little secret". As there appears to be general
> convergence of Windows across all devices in Windows 10, is there
> any progress in this direction?

There are no plans to support Windows Phone.  Also, Microsoft is laying off 
7800 employees in its Windows Phone division, which probably does not bode 
well for its future in the marketplace:

http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/08/technology/microsoft-layoffs-7800/

Everything is moving to Windows 10, which Delphi *does* support (well, not 
the WinRT portions of it, anyway).

-- 
Remy Lebeau (TeamB)
0
Remy
7/14/2015 6:07:55 PM
Enquiring wrote:

> It's a while since I last enquired about Delphi support for Windows
> Phone. At the time development was said to be on hold on account
> of "Microsoft's dirty little secret". As there appears to be general
> convergence of Windows across all devices in Windows 10, is there
> any progress in this direction?

There are no plans to support Windows Phone.  Also, Microsoft is laying off 
7800 employees in its Windows Phone division, which probably does not bode 
well for its future in the marketplace:

http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/08/technology/microsoft-layoffs-7800/

Everything is moving to Windows 10, which Delphi *does* support (well, not 
the WinRT portions of it, anyway).

-- 
Remy Lebeau (TeamB)
0
Remy
7/14/2015 6:22:24 PM
> It's a while since I last enquired about Delphi support for Windows Phone. At the time development was said to be on hold on account of "Microsoft's dirty little secret". As there appears to be general convergence of Windows across all devices in Windows 10, is there any progress in this direction?
> I have a Windows phone and would like to program it using Delphi!

Windows Phone didn't take off. And because it looks only Apple today makes money from phones, even Android makers are in big troubles to extract money from sales, there's very little space for it.

Windows 10 introduces "Universal Apps" which will run on any Windows 10 device, from PCs to phones, automatically adapting. They are different from a Windows Phone 8 application, and a "Modern" Windows 8 app.

Let's see how long it will take for Delphi to support Universal Apps... my bet it's Emb will try to deliver its own imitation through FireMonkey. After all, they still don't truly support Windows 8 - and AFAIK there are still not a few old, deprecated APIs used in the VCL. Hope they updated TService, in XE8...
0
Luigi
7/14/2015 6:46:33 PM
Luigi wrote:

> Let's see how long it will take for Delphi to support Universal
> Apps...

http://blog.marcocantu.com/blog/2015_05_build_windows10_delphi_cppbuilder.html

-- 
Remy Lebeau (TeamB)
0
Remy
7/14/2015 6:59:38 PM
Enquiring wrote:

> It's a while since I last enquired about Delphi support for Windows
> Phone. At the time development was said to be on hold on account
> of "Microsoft's dirty little secret". As there appears to be general
> convergence of Windows across all devices in Windows 10, is there
> any progress in this direction?

There are no plans to support Windows Phone.  Also, Microsoft is laying off 
7800 employees in its Windows Phone division, which probably does not bode 
well for its future in the marketplace:

http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/08/technology/microsoft-layoffs-7800/

Everything is moving to Windows 10, which Delphi *does* support (well, not 
the WinRT portions of it, anyway).

-- 
Remy Lebeau (TeamB)
0
Remy
7/14/2015 10:57:46 PM
> http://blog.marcocantu.com/blog/2015_05_build_windows10_delphi_cppbuilder.html

Which actually says nothing about supporting - and when - newer API subsystems and features in Delphi, but what is already available

As long as new APIs are available through the "old" Win32 API there's chances you can use them yourself - and you don't really need a new version of Delphi for that - but APIs which are available only through new subsystem won't be available until Delphi let you target them fully. AFAIK Universal Apps needs both what is the evolution of the WinRT subsystem, and XAML for the interface definition. Both unsupported by Delphi. FM could try to mimic Universal Apps, but it will of course lack the OS support, an
d thereby any improvement Windows could introduce, and I believe they will be frequent in the early days of Windows 10, especially if their plan to continuously update the OS are real. FM apps risk to try to hit a continuously moving target.
0
Luigi
7/15/2015 6:32:48 PM
> {quote:title=Kyle Miller wrote:}{quote}
> On 07/14/2015 05:38 AM, Enquiring Mind wrote:
> > It's a while since I last enquired about Delphi support for Windows Phone. At the time development was said to be on hold on account of "Microsoft's dirty little secret". As there appears to be general convergence of Windows across all devices in Windows 10, is there any progress in this direction?
> > I have a Windows phone and would like to program it using Delphi!
> 
> You'll have to find many more of you before that happens. Windows Phone market is very 
> small.

That's a spurious argument, if I may say so. Windows Phone enjoys market shares up to 15% in some markets. And where it enjoys a market share of only say 5%, that still equates to a very considerable market size in terms of absolute number. With the advent of Windows 10, and the ability of future Windows phone apps to run on all Windows devices from computers to phones, the market share is likely to grow. On the basis of the market share argument, a journalist would only see the need to write articles for
 the large market share redtop popular newspapers and not for low circulation quality papers such as the Financial Times. The market share in different socioeconomic categories must also be considered.

Major banks and utility companies that wish to make available to their customers an app to manage their account with the company must provide versions of the app to suit all major phone platforms. Otherwise users of an unsupported phone platform would be excluded from using their account by phone, thereby possibly making the company lose a customer or have an alienated customer. They require developers or development systems to be able to target Apple, Android, and Windows platforms from a substantially u
nified code base.

As a final point, if market share were the only consideration, then no one would be using Delphi!

EM

Edited by: Enquiring Mind on Jul 18, 2015 9:09 AM
0
Enquiring
7/18/2015 8:09:36 AM
> {quote:title=Luigi Sandon wrote:}{quote}
> > It's a while since I last enquired about Delphi support for Windows Phone. At the time development was said to be on hold on account of "Microsoft's dirty little secret". As there appears to be general convergence of Windows across all devices in Windows 10, is there any progress in this direction?
> > I have a Windows phone and would like to program it using Delphi!
> 
> Windows Phone didn't take off.

It did take off, but not as a mass market product in huge markets like China and India. According to a Wikipedia, it has a market share of 15% in Italy, and 10% in the European Union. he latter equates to 50 million users. A market of 50 M is not worth targeting?

> And because it looks only Apple today makes money from phones, even Android makers are in big troubles to extract money from sales, there's very little space for it.

Apple may make a higher relative profit margin from phones, but the revenues of Android phone manufacturers like Samsung are not to be sneezed at. There is a lot of money being made making and selling Android phones when one compares the price of a high end Samsung mobile phone with that of a laptop of a TV set. The phone contains substantially less hardware, but costs considerably more than the more mature products.
> 
> Windows 10 introduces "Universal Apps" which will run on any Windows 10 device, from PCs to phones, automatically adapting. They are different from a Windows Phone 8 application, and a "Modern" Windows 8 app.

Quite. That's why Embarcadero should start refactoring the Delphi core code base to suit all Windows 10 devices.

> 
> Let's see how long it will take for Delphi to support Universal Apps... my bet it's Emb will try to deliver its own imitation through FireMonkey. After all, they still don't truly support Windows 8 - and AFAIK there are still not a few old, deprecated APIs used in the VCL. Hope they updated TService, in XE8...
0
Enquiring
7/18/2015 8:21:02 AM
On 07/18/2015 03:09 AM, Enquiring Mind wrote:
>> {quote:title=Kyle Miller wrote:}{quote}
>> You'll have to find many more of you before that happens. Windows Phone market is very
>> small.
>
> That's a spurious argument, if I may say so. Windows Phone enjoys market shares up to 15% in some markets.

CORRECTION: "Windows Phone enjoys market shares up to 15% in its BEST markets."

That's not enough. Even Microsoft admits this.

> Major banks and utility companies that wish to make available to their customers an app to manage their account with the company must provide versions of the app to suit all major phone platforms. Otherwise users of an unsupported phone platform would be excluded from using their account by phone, thereby possibly making the company lose a customer or have an alienated customer. They require developers or development systems to be able to target Apple, Android, and Windows platforms from a substantially
 u
> nified code base.

What about Blackberry? Can't exclude them. Tizen? Ubuntu Phone? Where does it end?

> As a final point, if market share were the only consideration, then no one would be using Delphi!

Does Microsoft make substantial effort to accommodate Delphi? No. So, they've already 
taken your advice.
0
Kyle
7/20/2015 4:39:19 PM
I still wonder what will happen with RT when next year Intell 
comes with its X3 smartphone chip that can run full Windows 10.

http://wmpoweruser.com/windows-phone-devices-based-on-intels-latest-x3-smartphone-chip-may-come-later-this-year/
0
Robert
7/21/2015 7:16:56 AM
On 2015-07-21 12:46, Robert Triest wrote:
> I still wonder what will happen with RT when next year Intell
> comes with its X3 smartphone chip that can run full Windows 10.
>
> http://wmpoweruser.com/windows-phone-devices-based-on-intels-latest-x3-smartphone-chip-may-come-later-this-year/
>

Intel's outing with Android has not been a great success.

-- 
V. Subhash
0
V
7/24/2015 8:43:03 AM
> Intel's outing with Android has not been a great success.
Android is already mainly running on ARM and there is no use for
Intell to support Android. It is just another chipset. The key is the OS
that is running on the device. Developers need to learn Android developement
no matter if it is running on Intell or ARM. If Intel is able to run full Windows 10 
on a mobile they open a mobile market for zillion Win Developers developing
in a lot of different program languages.
0
Robert
7/24/2015 9:13:08 AM
Reply:

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