Hi,

I have recently retested the Delphi IDE on WINE and was surprised that it actually worked (there are issues however).

Since I'd really like to use Delphi outside a VM on my Linux system, I decided to invest some time into this and have now become the official maintainer of Delphi in the WINE appdb:

https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=42

Any other test results are welcome, I'm going to test all the Delphi versions I have access to in the near future.

So far I know that Delphi XE3 and Delphi XE7 work.

The installation is not straight forward, but manageable, I've written a How-to that is displayed in the test results page for all newer versions of Delphi.

https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=32440 (see "Installation How-to" at the bottom).

The main issue I currently have is that the IDE frequently shows the "Error" dialog with an access violation in "gdi32.dll". It can be ignored, but is kind of annoying.

The designer, the object inspector, the compiler and the debugger all seem to work so far :)

You can see the debugger in action here:

http://postimg.org/image/o77zhkadn/

-- 
Regards
Jens Mühlenhoff - ACCURATA Informationssysteme GmbH

Jens Mühlenhoff wrote:

> Since I'd really like to use Delphi outside a VM on my Linux system,

Quick question: Other than saving a license fee for the guest OS, and
--possibly-- satisfying a curiosity whether it does run under WINE, what
advantage can/does WINE offer even if it handled everything perfectly?

Am 02.08.2015 um 06:23 schrieb Adem Meda:
> Quick question: Other than saving a license fee for the guest OS, and
> --possibly-- satisfying a curiosity whether it does run under WINE, what
> advantage can/does WINE offer even if it handled everything perfectly?
> 

That's the wrong question since I don't do this for commercial purposes, it's really a hobby project at the moment.

When at work, I have a Windows system with Delphi directly installed (no VM involved, except for software testing purposes).

The operating system choice at home for me however is Linux and as I like to write software (mostly small utilities) in my free time as well, I really miss Delphi for that.

I know that there is Lazarus and FPC, but the Delphi IDE, it's libraries and third party components are still vastly superior to what Lazarus has to offer (and I don't think that will ever change).

So what can I do to make this work for me when using a Linux based OS?

The ideal solution would be to not have to maintain a guest OS for this at all and WINE offers exactly that, you can run the Delphi IDE as a native Linux program, which has lots of benefits:

- Full integration with the window manager (You can ALT-TAB to the IDE and don't have an additional guest OS interfering here)
- No performance penalty (To be fair modern VMs with para-virtualization are already very performance efficient)
- The ability to debug other software running on WINE
- This includes your own programs, you could for example write a HTTP server application for Win32 that also works well in WINE.
- Direct access to the host file system rather than through shared folders
- Direct access to the host clipboard rather than through some clipboard sharing mechanisms
- It's still completely contained in the WINEPREFIX, so you can have one prefix for each Delphi version you want to use

Embarcadero might support Linux server applications in the future (at least it's on the roadmap) and then it might also be nice to write these applications on the same system you are targeting.

On the other hand, since I'm doing this in my free time, I don't see any reasons not to do it ;)

-- 
Regards
Jens Mühlenhoff - ACCURATA Informationssysteme GmbH

Jens Mühlenhoff wrote:

> Am 02.08.2015 um 06:23 schrieb Adem Meda:
> > Quick question: Other than saving a license fee for the guest OS, and
> > --possibly-- satisfying a curiosity whether it does run under WINE, what
> > advantage can/does WINE offer even if it handled everything perfectly?
> > 
> 
> That's the wrong question since I don't do this for commercial purposes, it's
> really a hobby project at the moment.

I am not so sure it is "the wrong question"..

Unless you insist that your VM must also be (at least partially) open source,
(i.e. Oracle VirtualBox) available on both OSes, you could opt for 'VMWare
Workstation' which does come in both Windows and Linux as host.

Then, for guest OS with your Delphi and other relevant stuff, you could use a
good and fast SSD (e.g. Samsung 850 Series) with USB3 interface and use it as
'physical disk'.

This way, you have your whole VM fully portable (use at home, or bring it to
work).

Heck, if you chose to have Windows 10 for the guest, you could also boot from
that 'physical disk' (they called Windows-To-Go, I believe; I am not sure what
they call it now) and it would act as a glorified repair/rescue disk when bad
times set on.

> I know that there is Lazarus and FPC, but the Delphi IDE, it's libraries and
> third party components are still vastly superior to what Lazarus has to offer
> (and I don't think that will ever change).

I too am a fan of FPC/Lazarus, but --in this case-- I didn't have it in mind as
suggestion.

> So what can I do to make this work for me when using a Linux based OS?

Use VMWare Workstation. It runs under both Linux and Windows.

> The ideal solution would be to not have to maintain a guest OS for this at
> all and WINE offers exactly that, you can run the Delphi IDE as a native
> Linux program, which has lots of benefits:

Well.. WINE is a lot like FPC/Lazarus, isn't it? Always plating catch-up and
almost always missing something.

> On the other hand, since I'm doing this in my free time, I don't see any
> reasons not to do it ;)

I wasn't asking you as your boss. ;)

Then again, having/doing something as a hobby does not completely exclude
rationality; does it?

Am 03.08.2015 um 07:34 schrieb Adem Meda:
>> The ideal solution would be to not have to maintain a guest OS for this at
>> all and WINE offers exactly that, you can run the Delphi IDE as a native
>> Linux program, which has lots of benefits:
> 
> Well.. WINE is a lot like FPC/Lazarus, isn't it? Always plating catch-up and
> almost always missing something.

Its not like the Delphi IDE is using many exclusive new features of
newer Windows versions, you can still run XE7 on Windows XP for example.

The current WINE does have pretty good support for the "XP level" Win32 API.

You will run into problem when your application uses some of the more
exotic Windows libraries though.

Microsofts policy to have a very stable ABI and API does help here, it
would be much harder to support different Linux ABIs on a Windows based
reimplementation of Linux.

Linux Torvalds is bashing the Linux distributions for that here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Mg5_gxNXTo

The one thing that causes problems with the newer Delphi IDE (after
Delphi 7) is that it requires .NET and that you have to install
Microsofts .NET framework, Mono doesn't seem to work well with the
Delphi IDE.

BTW: There is such a counterpart for WINE in development, it's called
"Foreign LINUX - Run unmodified Linux applications inside Windows."

https://github.com/wishstudio/flinux

> 
>> On the other hand, since I'm doing this in my free time, I don't see any
>> reasons not to do it ;)
> 
> I wasn't asking you as your boss. ;)
> 
> Then again, having/doing something as a hobby does not completely exclude
> rationality; does it?
> 

Of course not, I justed wanted to communicate my intend for doing this.

-- 
Regards
Jens Mühlenhoff - ACCURATA Informationssysteme GmbH

"Adem Meda" <adem.meda@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:729159@forums.embarcadero.com...
> Jens Mühlenhoff wrote:
>
>> Since I'd really like to use Delphi outside a VM on my Linux system,
>
> Quick question: Other than saving a license fee for the guest OS, and
> --possibly-- satisfying a curiosity whether it does run under WINE, what
> advantage can/does WINE offer even if it handled everything perfectly?

FMPOV, Saving _multiple_ license fees when you distribute software/hardware 
to provide a complete solution.

And thus being able to develop "closer" to the actual environment you may be 
distributing on.

> {quote:title=Jens Mühlenhoff wrote:}{quote}
> Am 02.08.2015 um 06:23 schrieb Adem Meda:
> > Quick question: Other than saving a license fee for the guest OS, and
> > --possibly-- satisfying a curiosity whether it does run under WINE, what
> > advantage can/does WINE offer even if it handled everything perfectly?
> > 
> 
> That's the wrong question since I don't do this for commercial purposes, it's really a hobby project at the moment.
> 
> When at work, I have a Windows system with Delphi directly installed (no VM involved, except for software testing purposes).
> 
> The operating system choice at home for me however is Linux and as I like to write software (mostly small utilities) in my free time as well, I really miss Delphi for that.
> 
> I know that there is Lazarus and FPC, but the Delphi IDE, it's libraries and third party components are still vastly superior to what Lazarus has to offer (and I don't think that will ever change).
> 
> So what can I do to make this work for me when using a Linux based OS?
> 
> The ideal solution would be to not have to maintain a guest OS for this at all and WINE offers exactly that, you can run the Delphi IDE as a native Linux program, which has lots of benefits:
> 
> - Full integration with the window manager (You can ALT-TAB to the IDE and don't have an additional guest OS interfering here)
> - No performance penalty (To be fair modern VMs with para-virtualization are already very performance efficient)
> - The ability to debug other software running on WINE
> - This includes your own programs, you could for example write a HTTP server application for Win32 that also works well in WINE.
> - Direct access to the host file system rather than through shared folders
> - Direct access to the host clipboard rather than through some clipboard sharing mechanisms
> - It's still completely contained in the WINEPREFIX, so you can have one prefix for each Delphi version you want to use
> 
> Embarcadero might support Linux server applications in the future (at least it's on the roadmap) and then it might also be nice to write these applications on the same system you are targeting.
> 
> On the other hand, since I'm doing this in my free time, I don't see any reasons not to do it ;)
> 
> -- 
> Regards
> Jens Mühlenhoff - ACCURATA Informationssysteme GmbH

Very interesting to try. Thank you for this information. By the way, what "Garbage" rating means?

Am 04.08.2015 um 04:57 schrieb Vadim Istomin:
> 
> Very interesting to try. Thank you for this information. By the way, what "Garbage" rating means?
> 

Many of the test results in appdb are very old (which is one of the reasons I'm going to retest some Delphi versions).

The ratings are explained here:

https://appdb.winehq.org/help/?sTopic=maintainer_ratings

> Garbage
>
> An application gets this rating if it cannot be used for the purpose it was designed for. There should be at least one bug report in Bugzilla if it gets this rating. Application cannot be installed, does not start, or starts but has so many errors that it is nearly impossible to use it.


-- 
Regards
Jens Mühlenhoff - ACCURATA Informationssysteme GmbH

Hello Jens,

Jens Mühlenhoff wrote:

>  it's libraries and third party components are still vastly superior
> to what Lazarus has to offer

Maybe take a look at CodeTyphon (a fork of Lazarus). If it is 3rd party
libraries and components you want, CodeTyphon will give you that. It
comes with tons of stuff installed as standard, and is very good with
cross-compling too - all part of the standard install.

Regards,
  G.

Hello Adem,

Adem Meda wrote:

>  Always plating catch-up and
> almost always missing something.

Wow, under which rock have you been hiding for the last 10 years.   ;-)

"Free Pascal is a 32, 64 and 16 bit professional Pascal compiler. It
can target multiple processor architectures: Intel x86, AMD64/x86-64,
PowerPC, PowerPC64, SPARC, and ARM. Supported operating systems include
Linux, FreeBSD, Haiku, Mac OS X/iOS/Darwin, DOS, Win32, Win64, WinCE,
OS/2, MorphOS, Nintendo GBA, Nintendo DS, and Nintendo Wii.
Additionally, support for the JVM, MIPS (big and little endian
variants), i8086, Motorola 68k and AArch64 architectures is available
in the development versions."

How much of that does Delphi support? Oh, one 3 or 4 OSes and what 3
architectures. Delphi can't even support a Linux console application.

How long did Delphi take to get 64-bit support? Only about 5-7 years
after FPC.  The list goes on and on.

Now lets turn to the IDE. What platforms does Delphi IDE run on? Oh
wait, only one... Windows. Lazarus runs natively on Linux, Mac OS X,
BSD, Solaris and of course Windows. For more features and exact dates,
take a look here:
   http://wiki.freepascal.org/New_IDE_features_since
Many pre-date Delphi IDE by years.

Regards,
  G.

Graeme wrote:

> How much of that does Delphi support?

From that list: Intel x86, AMD64/x86-64, ARM, DOS, Win32/64, OSX/iOS/Darwin.

> Delphi can't even support a Linux console application.

No, but Linux is on the roadmap.

-- 
Remy Lebeau (TeamB)

Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:

> >  Always playing catch-up and almost always missing something.
> 
> Wow, under which rock have you been hiding for the last 10 years.   ;-)

Well.. I hope this simple reality does not resent you; but, by definition, if
you're emulating something (which is what FPC/Lazarus does), then you're
playing catch-up.

> "Free Pascal is a 32, 64 and 16 bit professional Pascal compiler. It
> can target multiple processor architectures: Intel x86, AMD64/x86-64,
> PowerPC, PowerPC64, SPARC, and ARM. Supported operating systems include
> Linux, FreeBSD, Haiku, Mac OS X/iOS/Darwin, DOS, Win32, Win64, WinCE,
> OS/2, MorphOS, Nintendo GBA, Nintendo DS, and Nintendo Wii.
> Additionally, support for the JVM, MIPS (big and little endian
> variants), i8086, Motorola 68k and AArch64 architectures is available
> in the development versions."

Yeah. These are all nice and all --if you're interested in any of those.

How about much more simple things such as packages and a project manager where
I can mamage/build/compile more than one project (including packages)?

It is these little things that affect productivity in any given platform --jack
of all trades can go only so far when it's not a master of any one of them.

> How much of that does Delphi support? Oh, one 3 or 4 OSes and what 3
> architectures. Delphi can't even support a Linux console application.

So what?

If you're such an ardent proponent of WINE, what's the problem? ;)

> How long did Delphi take to get 64-bit support? Only about 5-7 years
> after FPC. 

Yep. This is one thing I would chalk up on for FPC. Except that, other than
very few things (such as context menu items for Explorer), having to write x86
code didn't matter much under Windows --it still does not.

Plus, doesn't Lazarus still (strongly) recommend x86 installation? Why?

BTW, does FPC/Lazarus have native debugger yet? Or, do you have to bear with
whatever that lovely and most-user-friendly GDB grants you?

> The list goes on and on.

It doesn't really. If it were, people would immediately stop paying thousands
for Delphi.

> Now lets turn to the IDE. What platforms does Delphi IDE run on? Oh
> wait, only one... Windows. Lazarus runs natively on Linux, Mac OS X,
> BSD, Solaris and of course Windows. For more features and exact dates,
> take a look here:
>    http://wiki.freepascal.org/New_IDE_features_since
> Many pre-date Delphi IDE by years.

You are counting it all that wrong: There are 2 OSes there: Windows and various
incarnations of Unix.