Scrollbar in Mac OS; html control [Edit]

Excuse me for asking these questions instead of trying the demo XE2, but my Win box died and currently I have only Macs with only Mac OS X (no VM, no Windows).

- I saw the webinar and I've noticed that scrollbars looked strange on Mac OS X. In Mac OS both up and down arrows are placed together, at the bottom of the scrollbar. I saw scrollbars that looked like Mac scrollbars, except the Up arrow was at the top, like in Windows. Is this customizable?

- Does FireMonkey have a control that can show HTML with images?

- Is there a control for video? Ideally I need one that supports h.264
0
Sergiy
9/2/2011 3:49:46 AM
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> {quote:title=Sergiy Kolokolkin wrote:}{quote}
> Excuse me for asking these questions instead of trying the demo XE2, but my Win box died and currently I have only Macs with only Mac OS X (no VM, no Windows).
> 
> - I saw the webinar and I've noticed that scrollbars looked strange on Mac OS X. In Mac OS both up and down arrows are placed together, at the bottom of the scrollbar. I saw scrollbars that looked like Mac scrollbars, except the Up arrow was at the top, like in Windows. Is this customizable?

One would hope so.

> - Does FireMonkey have a control that can show HTML with images?

On OS X, the Cocoa Webview control would be used for HTML display, as well as rich text editing. Don't know what that corresponds to in the FireMonkey control palette.

> - Is there a control for video? Ideally I need one that supports h.264

Probably several possibilities, although again the question is what these correspond to in FM.

http://developer.apple.com/technologies/mac/audio-and-video.html

Thanks.

-Phil
0
Phil
9/2/2011 3:01:51 PM
> {quote:title=Phil Hess wrote:}{quote}
> One would hope so.

I also hope so. You can adjust the scrollbars system-wide in Mac OS X, to have the arrows together at the bottom (default setting), or to have them on both sides like in Windows.

For a moment I thought that David I adjusted his Mac settings to make scrollbars look like in Windows.

I re-watched the webcast again. When David I opens XCode, the scrollbars are Mac-style (arrows together at the bottom). When he runs his FM demo, scrollbars are like in Windows. So either FM does not support Mac-style arrows in toolbars, or there is such support but David I did not use it.

I also hope that there is a person with a Mac on this forum, to answer my question :-)
0
Sergiy
9/2/2011 3:13:22 PM
> {quote:title=Sergiy Kolokolkin wrote:}{quote}
> > {quote:title=Phil Hess wrote:}{quote}
> > One would hope so.
> 
> I also hope so. You can adjust the scrollbars system-wide in Mac OS X, to have the arrows together at the bottom (default setting), or to have them on both sides like in Windows.
> 
> For a moment I thought that David I adjusted his Mac settings to make scrollbars look like in Windows.
> 
> I re-watched the webcast again. When David I opens XCode, the scrollbars are Mac-style (arrows together at the bottom). When he runs his FM demo, scrollbars are like in Windows. So either FM does not support Mac-style arrows in toolbars, or there is such support but David I did not use it.
> 
> I also hope that there is a person with a Mac on this forum, to answer my question :-)

I have a Mac, but not XE2.

Normally on Mac you use an NSScroller or NSScrollView for scroll bars, but since FM is cross-platform it might be drawing and implementing the scroll bar behavior itself. This is always a difficult choice in any cross-platform framework - use underlying native functionality that you get "for free" and have noticeable differences between platforms, or try to control the look and feel yourself as much as possible?

Thanks.

-Phil
0
Phil
9/2/2011 4:45:23 PM
> {quote:title=Phil Hess wrote:}{quote}
> Normally on Mac you use an NSScroller or NSScrollView for scroll bars, but since FM is cross-platform it might be drawing and implementing the scroll bar behavior itself.

FM is not using any native controls on any platform, it is drawing everything - this is a well-known fact. I don't mind that FM is drawing everything and *all* controls look not-native on Mac (at least this is what I saw in the webcast).

However the arrow button placement seems important to me. I think that the user will unconsciously place his mouse pointer at the bottom of the scrollbar when he wants to press the Up arrow - and he will not find it there. Lots of Mac users may write negative reviews because of that.

I suppose that it is possible to make own styles that will draw more native-looking controls, but I don't think that styles are powerful enough to change the placement of arrows inside scrollbars.
0
Sergiy
9/2/2011 6:45:25 PM
> {quote:title=Sergiy Kolokolkin wrote:}{quote}
> > {quote:title=Phil Hess wrote:}{quote}
> > Normally on Mac you use an NSScroller or NSScrollView for scroll bars, but since FM is cross-platform it might be drawing and implementing the scroll bar behavior itself.
> 
> However the arrow button placement seems important to me. I think that the user will unconsciously place his mouse pointer at the bottom of the scrollbar when he wants to press the Up arrow - and he will not find it there. Lots of Mac users may write negative reviews because of that.


I suppose it's possible that something like this could cause an FM app to be rejected from the Mac App Store - depends on how closely they review against the known design guidelines for submitted apps.

Thanks.

-Phil
0
Phil
9/2/2011 6:49:57 PM
Sergiy Kolokolkin wrote:

> > {quote:title=Phil Hess wrote:}{quote}
> > One would hope so.
> 
> I also hope so. You can adjust the scrollbars system-wide in Mac OS
> X, to have the arrows together at the bottom (default setting), or to
> have them on both sides like in Windows.
> 
> For a moment I thought that David I adjusted his Mac settings to make
> scrollbars look like in Windows.
> 
> I re-watched the webcast again. When David I opens XCode, the
> scrollbars are Mac-style (arrows together at the bottom). When he
> runs his FM demo, scrollbars are like in Windows. So either FM does
> not support Mac-style arrows in toolbars, or there is such support
> but David I did not use it.
> 
> I also hope that there is a person with a Mac on this forum, to
> answer my question :-)

FWIW, on OS X Lion (10.7), scrollbars have no arrow buttons anymore.
Most windows don't even have scrollbars, unless you tell Lion to add
them by default.

-- 
Rudy Velthuis

"The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose 
 begins." -- Oliver Wendell Holmes (1841-1935)
0
Rudy
9/4/2011 1:45:08 AM
> {quote:title=Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:}{quote}
> FWIW, on OS X Lion (10.7), scrollbars have no arrow buttons anymore.
> Most windows don't even have scrollbars, unless you tell Lion to add
> them by default.
> -- 
> Rudy Velthuis

I know that.

Many people will still use Mac OS 10.6 in the next several years. I believe that I need to support at least the previous OS version on any platform.

There are lots of people who do not upgrade to OS 10.7 because it does not have Rosetta, so it cannot run PPC apps. I myself use one such old app (monitor profiling with i1 spectrofotometer) - it's discontinued and will never be recompiled for Intel. I can buy another similar app for around $200... so I will do this sooner or later... some people will need to spend more than that.
0
Sergiy
9/4/2011 2:21:22 AM
Anyway, even if scrollbars look wrong, they work.

However if FM cannot display HTML - that's a deal-breaker for me... I've searched the online doc (list of FM units and classes) and did not see anything like that.

If FM does not have a control that can play video, I would have to call an external app to play it in a separate window - that would be ugly in the context of my app...

Looks like I will stick to Qt... They have just released v.4.7.4 that fixes a Mac-related bug that I have reported last October. Working around that bug would add a few months to programming for me. I put my desktop (Qt) project aside for a few months and worked on my iOS app, but now it looks like I can continue with Qt.
0
Sergiy
9/4/2011 2:38:07 AM
> {quote:title=Sergiy Kolokolkin wrote:}{quote}
> Many people will still use Mac OS 10.6 in the next several years. I believe that I need to support at least the previous OS version on any platform.

This may not be entirely relevant, but it's probably important to keep in mind that Apple's own UI standards are not static. John Gruber wrote last winter about this here and it's worth reading in light of Lion's UI changes (iOS-influenced perhaps):

http://daringfireball.net/2011/01/uniformity_vs_individuality_in_mac_ui_design

Other questions worth asking about FM on OS X revolve around the visually obvious differences from other platforms. For example, does the main menu bar of a FM app have the application menu, with the standard About and Preferences? Are modal dialogs displayed as modal sheets, per the normal Cocoa way, or are they Windows-like modal dialogs? That sort of thing. 

I put together last year some notes on changes that a developer might consider for making a Lazarus app more Mac-like. Some of these issues might apply to FM as well, since both LCL and FM are cross-platform UI frameworks.

http://web.me.com/macpgmr/ObjP/MacXPlatform_Part8.html

Thanks.

-Phil
0
Phil
9/4/2011 2:40:09 AM
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